Lincoln78: what to do now?

[Lincoln78]

Thank you Sarabera.

 

I have asked my GP about Bio identical but as im not in Menopause she says she is unable to prescribe this and has given me the mini pill.

 

For the last week i have had a terrible feeling like when someone scratches their nails down a blackboard feeling but in my head. It is vile. I laid in bed last night trying to sleep but it got so bad I ended up having a massive panic attack, i was unable to speak or move and shook violently for a long time, this has never happened before in withdrawal or in health. I eventually slept for 3 hrs but woke with a massive cortisol rushes as bad as a year ago. i feel totally destroyed today. This nightmare just goes on and on 

[Lincoln78]

I feel so low, I don't know how to lift this depression it's consuming. How do people manage this ?

[AliG]

Lincoln. Just keep going. It will eventually lift. Sometimes , it takes a while.    It can be a little " rough" at times, but you will make it through ! 

Ali

[Sarabera]

When I was in the worst of depression, I tried very hard to just "go through the motions"--get out of bed, take a shower, go for a walk, do some light chores, etc...Just getting outside always helped a lot. Hopefully now that you've had a panic attack, you know you can live through it. If you can try and kind of disassociate, and realize that this is just a body reaction and will pass, it kind of loses it's power. I know how hard it is when you are worried about brain damage and all that, will this never end? but you can heal from all this.

Sarah

[Lincoln78]

Thank you Sarah.

 

If I could just calm my system the hormones/cortisol would be more in sync and the depression would lift I know it. I woke at 5.30 this morning after a fitful night, I live in a apartment block and there is some noise in the morning, I lay there and I can hear my neighbour drop something on the wooden floor, not a loud noise but waves and waves of adrenaline surge over my body and this is with earplugs/ blackout blinds ect. I counted last night and I'm nearly 20 months off Prozac surely I should be seeing improvement, I'm only 37 and was very fit prior to this.

Sorry for being a little negative I know it's not in the spirit of the site. I'm actually normally very upbeat. Did you ever try acupunture ? I hear it can calm the system in war vets

[Lincoln78]

I'm starting on verepramil will update any progress

[Lincoln78]

I hear Americans prefer their coffee, but we Brits like our tea. Seems it may help lower cortisol. Worth a shot.

 

 

Black tea soothes away stress

 

Daily cups of tea can help you recover more quickly from the stresses of everyday life, according to a new study by UCL (University College London) researchers. New scientific evidence shows that black tea has an effect on stress hormone levels in the body.

 

 

The study, published in the journal Psychopharmacology, found that people who drank tea were able to de-stress more quickly than those who drank a fake tea substitute. Furthermore, the study participants – who drank a black tea concoction four times a day for six weeks – were found to have lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol in their blood after a stressful event, compared with a control group who drank the fake or placebo tea for the same period of time.

 

In the study, 75 young male regular tea drinkers were split into two groups and monitored for six weeks. They all gave up their normal tea, coffee and caffeinated beverages, then one group was given a fruit-flavoured caffeinated tea mixture made up of the constituents of an average cup of black tea. The other group – the control group – was given a caffeinated placebo identical in taste, but devoid of the active tea ingredients. All drinks were tea-coloured, but were designed to mask some of the normal sensory cues associated with tea drinking (such as smell, taste and familiarity of the brew), to eliminate confounding factors such as the ‘comforting’ effect of drinking a cup of tea.

 

Both groups were subjected to challenging tasks, while their cortisol, blood pressure, blood platelet and self-rated levels of stress were measured. In one task, volunteers were exposed to one of three stressful situations (threat of unemployment, a shop lifting accusation or an incident in a nursing home), where they had to prepare a verbal response and argue their case in front of a camera.

 

The tasks triggered substantial increases in blood pressure, heart rate and subjective stress ratings in both of the groups. In other words, similar stress levels were induced in both groups. However, 50 minutes after the task, cortisol levels had dropped by an average of 47 per cent in the tea drinking group compared with 27 per cent in the fake tea group.

 

UCL researchers also found that blood platelet activation – linked to blood clotting and the risk of heart attacks – was lower in the tea drinkers, and that this group reported a greater degree of relaxation in the recovery period after the task.

 

Professor Andrew Steptoe, UCL Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, says: “Drinking tea has traditionally been associated with stress relief, and many people believe that drinking tea helps them relax after facing the stresses of everyday life. However, scientific evidence for the relaxing properties of tea is quite limited. This is one of the first studies to assess tea in a double-blind placebo controlled design – that is, neither we nor the participants knew whether they were drinking real or fake tea. This means that any differences were due to the biological ingredients of tea, and not to the relaxing situations in which people might drink tea, whether they were familiar with the taste and liked it, and so on.

 

“We do not know what ingredients of tea were responsible for these effects on stress recovery and relaxation. Tea is chemically very complex, with many different ingredients. Ingredients such as catechins, polyphenols, flavonoids and amino acids have been found to have effects on neurotransmitters in the brain, but we cannot tell from this research which ones produced the differences.

 

“Nevertheless, our study suggests that drinking black tea may speed up our recovery from the daily stresses in life. Although it does not appear to reduce the actual levels of stress we experience, tea does seem to have a greater effect in bringing stress hormone levels back to normal. This has important health implications, because slow recovery following acute stress has been associated with a greater risk of chronic illnesses such as coronary heart disease.”

[Petunia]

Black tea soothes away stress

 

Daily cups of tea can help you recover more quickly from the stresses of everyday life, according to a new study by UCL (University College London) researchers. New scientific evidence shows that black tea has an effect on stress hormone levels in the body.

 

 

It might be because tea, including black tea contains L-Theanine.  I recently did a lot of research and learned that black tea actually contains more L-Theanine than the kind of green tea sold in most grocery stores. Its widely believed that its only green tea that contains L-Theanine.

 

But if you are drinking tea, you might want to switch to decaff. Caffeine is something many of us had to give up while recovering from withdrawal. I can no longer tolerate even weak tea in the morning, it increases anxiety symptoms and stops me from sleeping properly at night. I used to drink both tea and coffee.

 

I just read through your whole thread Lincoln and I'm so sorry you're going through this and for what you have lost. I relate to all your descriptions of symptoms because I've been there. I came off SSRIs too fast after long term use and have been in protracted withdrawal ever since.

 

You can read my story in my intro thread if you want, link in my signature, but I wanted to give you some hope that it does get better over time.

 

It was over two years before I stumbled onto this site and learn that what I was experiencing was withdrawal, I was still believing I had a chemical imbalance and was trying to get some relief with various prescription drugs, trying to find the right mix of chemicals to balance my brain again.... all it did was make me worse and set my recovery back.

 

I've been completely drug free for 33 months now and many of my symptoms have gone completely and the rest of them are much improved. My sleep is almost back to normal now, I used to be exactly as you describe yourself. But now I no longer have to sleep with ear plugs because I'm not being woken up by every little sound. I also used to have to get up several times a night to use the bathroom, but that stopped also.

 

The turning point for me was when I stopped trying to fix myself with pills and started doing my best to give my nervous system the calm, natural environment it needed to do its own repair work. It still took a long time before I started to feel any improvement but after about 18 months of being drug free I was able to notice that I had made some progress and was in fact getting better.

 

I've found small amounts of symptom relief from a few supplements, but I've had to do a lot of experimenting to find ones that have helped.

 

Have you seen this topic: Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have withdrawal insomnia  ...you probably have.

 

I hope your appointment with Dr. Healy goes well next month. I've heard that he's very nice.

 

 Did you ever try acupunture ? I hear it can calm the system in war vets

 

Some people find acupuncture helpful to reduce withdrawal symptoms, but you have to request a calming treatment, we have a topic on it here: Acupuncture - Surviving Antidepressants

 

I wish I had more to offer in the way of help, but know you're not alone in this difficult journey back to health. 

 

Petunia.

[Lincoln78]

Hi Petunia

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Your right about caffeine I have not touched it in 18 months after a bad reaction. In fact I get very nervous about people making me drinks in case they mix the decaf up.

 

I have not taken a psychiatric drug in 18 months either, I'm about to start verepramil as soon as its approved. This was suggested by a dr through desperation really and it's the first drug I have had the courage to agree to.

 

Iv seen Dr Healy and your right he is a very nice man.

 

The truth is I have not seen any measurable improvement in in 20 months, I worry about the long term effects of depression on my body. I'm in constant pain, I never had pain prior to coming off drugs except muscle ache after a long run. I'm also unable to complete simple tasks a.m.

 

I know I had some level of depression before medication, im not ashamed to admit it as there is no shame in mental illness. The problem is when you are medicated at a young age you never have the chance to see how things will pan out.

 

I'm glad you are feeling better Petunia it really makes me smile to think someone has come through this even if it's not fully. X

[AliG]

Lincoln. There are many here , in the same boat . You are not on your own . Many ,like Petu are suffering. She is a " Saint " . I know you know this .Please hang on.

[Lincoln78]

Thanks Lincoln.

 

After a 20 min nap today nothing looks real everything looks like a copy of a copy, I know this to be derealisation. It's sucks big time!

[Lincoln78]

Meant to say Thanks AliG. Don't know what planet I'm on today

[KarenB]

Hello Lincoln,

 

Those last two posts gave me a giggle .  I hadn't read your thread till today.  I think you show a lot of strength the way you are still going onwards, day by day.  It may not feel like you are getting anywhere, but during depression the ability to do that is actually a lot and it needs acknowledging. 

 

My kids are older now, so it's a little easier.  You are right in the thick of being a mum - so extra credit there too. 

 

If you want to see my story of healing from what was pretty much life-long depression, take a look at my blog (link in my sig.)  The early posts were written when I was still in the thick of it - and it shows how hopeless I felt for years.  The later posts are where the hope comes in and things started to change for me.  I struggled with depression through my childhood, teens, twenties, nearly gave up, and then in my mid thirties things started to work out.  It's worth waiting for.

 

I know you'll find some peace; I hope it's sooner rather than later.

Hugs,

Karen

[Lincoln78]

Thank you Karen

 

I will read your blog.

 

The one thing I don't feel bad about anymore is going cold turkey. I beat myself up for so long thinking if only I had known to taper things would be different but Dr Healy said this can happen on a fast or slow taper, so Iv tried to put this out my head. X

[Lincoln78]

Can anyone tell me how long their morning rushes went on for? I'm in month 21 and still getting them, wake early with dread/doom and the cortisol rolls over me in waves.. So desperate for refreshing sleep. It seems for every symptom I have the normal treatment is ADs

 

Depression/anxiety- AD

Vertigo- AD amiltriptyline.

Cfs- AD

Fibro-AD

Migrane-AD

InsomniaAD

Frequent urination.AD

 

I understand the chemistry behind it I just wish is wasn't so.

 

Ps If anyone is interested in what Mr Healy said pm me. Especially if you CT.

[AliG]

It does get better .  I'm 20 months, and on the mend . No one can say. It is impossible. If you are off for long enough, it will improve, and recede.

Ali

[Lincoln78]

I'm pleased your improving Ali

[DaddyCee]

Hi Lincoln,

 

Just wanted to say hello and to wish you well in your continued journey. 

 

I still have Cortisol rushes upon waking each morning, but these have changed from the dread/doom to a nauseous feeling.  The last couple of days I seem to have been free from this so I'm hoping that my recovery has turned a corner. 

 

I don't think the drug ever fully leaves your body, I believe that traces are still found in organs and this has been proven when autopsies have been conducted on people who have been on ADs.  This is not to say that the body doesn't ever fully recover, the amount would be a trace element and so should have no long last effects. 

 

I am over 2 years out after taking 2 ADs over a 16 year period.  I didn't cold turkey as to speak, I took roughly 2 years or so and then my GP decided to CT me with his lack of knowledge, though he is thought to be a great eminent speaker in my city when it come to psychological matters.

 

The two ADs I had been prescribed are Seroxat and Escitalopram, so I kind of know the distress that you have been through.

 

Remember to be kind to yourself and try and relax the best you can. You can and will get through this I am sure.

 

Namaste,

 

DC.

[AliG]

 .

The morning cortisol rush is different for everyone. It normally improves with time, but can vary individually . It is your system on " high alert ".

 

Ali.

[Lincoln78]

Hi Namaste

 

Thank you for your support. I'm hoping your recovery has turned a corner too. Seroxat is a tough drug. I try so hard to be kind to my body, I try and eat healthy and get fresh air but I have so much extra external stress than before this started. financially this has been very tough, as well as family problems. There is nothing this thing spares. I'm trying everyday to stay positive and when I do recover I will never take for granted the ability to work and care for my children again.

 

It's ok I understand your point Ali. It will last as long as it lasts, we are all different I get that. Thank you

[AliG]

I hope you didn't misunderstand. It is not permanent. 

 

Ali

[Lincoln78]

I Missed a misunderstanding Ali

 

I thought maybe light effected cortisol but I honestly think I could live in a box and still get it. It's pitch black until 9am in the winter and I still get it at 6-7am.

 

My GP refuses to test for cortisol so going to just have to live with it. I also learned cystitis is very common in withdrawal which I have almost constantly. The one thing that has left me is the constant upset stomach which I'm pleased about.

[AliG]

Lincoln.   I think I was on another planet , too. LOL.  Like you , I have  severe insomnia, and in the early hours of the morning, I tend to lose  perspective and neuro - emotions kick in. I hope you understand.

 

You might want to look up Colloidal Silver. It has been successful in some cases with cystitis. It's probably worth looking into , as its a natural alternative to antibiotics.

[Lincoln78]

Hey Ali. Yes I understand and I'm glad I'm not the only one that loses perspective in the early hours. I hate the insomnia. I used to be able to sleep for England!

 

Just researching the colloidal, has to beat antibiotics.

 

So low today, everyday is the same wake up with the wooshing headache of a few hrs bad quality sleep and constant pain! I ran a full marathon 3 years ago today. Prozac has a lot to answer for

[Fresh]

Hi Lincoln ,  I'm a huge fan of colloidal silver for any sort of infection - it has no side effects and you can't get toxic.

A common symptom is in w/d is urinary frequency , which is not an infection and there is no burning when you pee.

See  Urination and Bladder Issues (Male and Female)

 

bw ,  Fresh

[Lincoln78]

Hi fresh

 

Yeah I know I spoke to dr healy about it. Iv had many urine tests and they don't show infection I do have burning and pulling though and frequency. Will try the colloidal thanks.

I'm discussing some off his suggestions with my dr fingers crossed she approves of the off label part

[Lincoln78]

Iv had tinnitus since this started but is now almost 24/7 for the the last month. I can't take it anymore Iv waited almost 2 years for improvement and if anything the last 6 months have been worse. Chronic fatigue, chronic pain, tinnitus, dizziness, insomnia, depression and anxiety. Also the headaches I get are very painful. Iv tried everything, no alcohol no sugar, yoga, fresh air, cbt, hypnotherapy, massage therapy, meditation classes, acupuncture. Mangnesium, lactium, cod liver oil. My question is, do I either try going back to Prozac a very low dose or the tryclic that the psychiatrist suggests. I know nobody knows what will happen or how I will react I appreciate that 100% but please just someone give me their opinion on my two options. Thank you

[Fresh]

I guess both options have pros and cons Lincoln.

If you are going to try prozac , please start with just a tiny dose - 1/2 to 1mg.  If it does trigger an adverse reaction , it's

better to have only a small dose on board.   It may have no effect at all after this long , 20 months.

[nz11]

Lincoln i was in bad shape at 20 months These are still early days. Spend time lingering in the success thread. and non drug ways to cope.

 

Healy says 2-4 yrs once drug free. Please be patient. You are doing so well. Dont give up hope.

 

please just someone give me their opinion on my two options

Here's my opinion Determine to stay the course drug free. Well you asked so i gave you my opinion. 

And heres another consider keeping  well away from people with prescribing priveleges at this vulnerable time. imo

[Lincoln78]

yep I get what your saying. My child will not grow up without her mummy I owe her that and absolute ton more

[Lincoln78]

I started taking Chlonidine recently, chlonidine reduces locus coeruleus activity and is a blood pressure med. It has helped me alot with the hypervigilance and i also fall asleep faster, i still wake up but it does not take me hours to fall asleep. I get very dizzy but i don't feel like i have to be alert 24-7. 

 

I hate taking anything and i had resisted for 2 years almost, but i was totally frazzled to the point i was in danger. 

[Lincoln78]

Today marks 2 years off antidepressants. Not much has changed in the last 2 years but the low dose of clonidine I have been taking for the last 6 weeks has helped a lot. My vision is better I don't have to wear dark glasses constantly and can sit in the spring sunshine and feel the warmth on my skin, my heart races at lot less and the morning adrenaline surges are much less severe. I'm still debilitated but I can take a full breath and it feels so good

[KarenB]

Good to hear of some improvements Lincoln, even if slow.  Would you say that last line of your signature is no longer entirely true? 

[Lincoln78]

Thanks Karen

 

Yes I would say that because I forgot to amend it which I will rectify. I have zero shame for taking the blood pressure med and could not care less if anyone thinks I did wrong not that they do. nobody knows the limits of others suffering. We just do the best we can in this messed up situation. X

[KarenB]

So true.  It's like that old quotation about walking a mile in someone else's gumboots ...

[Lincoln78]

I had to go back to psych drugs. It was extremely tough but I wanted to live. I hope to come off in the future I really do but today is for living, I will never suffer that amount of pain for so long again. I look in the mirror everyday and wonder how the hell I survived a CT. Prozac really is a evil drug