Wrenster: Struggling and feeling like giving up

[SquirrellyGirl]

I am so relieved to hear that your partner is showing up for you now, so important!

 

So, your rational mind is able to see that what your WD mind is saying is ridiculous, but it is the neuro-emotions making it very hard to believe your rational mind.  This is TOTALLY NORMAL and not permanent.  And no, what you are seeing of yourself now is NOT the you that you will always be if you stay off the drug, absolutely NOT!  Again, this is the withdrawal tricking you.  You must hang on to that.  

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9809-neuro-emotions/

 

What you are experiencing is a common one shared by just about everyone who ends up here at SA.  The feelings of will it ever end, will I be like this forever, is normal though very frightening.  Again, spend some time in the success story folder to so that this is so, for reassurance. 

 

Unfortunately, no one here can make any guarantees about how long withdrawal will last if you continue without reinstatement.  I understand your desire to get pregnant, and it just truly sucks that you are in this predicament because of course it wouldn't be good to be on this drug for a pregnancy.  Yet, no one can guarantee that you will be through this by the time you want to get pregnant.  I wish I could offer you more.

 

I have a friend on here that I actually met outside of SA, and she got me here.  She did a fast taper off of Lexapro and is 19 months out, still having withdrawal but having big windows, and the waves are less severe.  She could easily say that she is much much better than she was a year ago.  So, when you see peoples' stories of taking years to be fully recovered, try to be reassured by the fact that probably most of them were doing dramatically better a year or more out.  The point being, their recovery was not just a solid long period of the same suffering that you are experiencing; it generally just gets less and less bad :-)  However, it is not linear.  See this topic:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

 

As I said, I get it not being so easy to use mindfulness meditation in this frame of mind, but please give it the college try, because it might just start to help with persistence.  Not long ago I was in a conversation with a fellow here who had CT'd off Effexor and was such despair over anhedonia he was experiencing; he was suicidal.  I tried to tell him all about this stuff and it fell on deaf ears for awhile, but then his uncle reinforced what I had been saying and he started meditating, and taking in the teachings of Eckhart or the like, and he began to feel peace and made such a tremendous turn around in attitude, so quickly that I was astonished!  So, please give it a go!

 

SG

[Altostrata]

Welcome, wrenster.

 

Please give the reinstatement some time to work and, as SquirrellyGirl suggested, do what you can to manage worry that you might add to the neurological destabilization. This will be important: Do not amplify withdrawal symptoms with worry about withdrawal symptoms. Many people find meditation to help take their minds off the symptoms.

 

You may experience The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization with distinct waves of symptoms, such as weepiness, coming out of nowhere. This is characteristic of withdrawal syndrome.

 

"Therapeutic dose" of any psychiatric drug is a fiction. The "therapeutic dose" is whatever works. In your case, you are taking Zoloft to stop withdrawal syndrome. Quite frequently, when one's nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal, typical doses of psychiatric drugs will cause unusual, uncomfortable reactions that are almost always misdiagnosed as some mysterious psychiatric disorder, often bipolar II or some other wastebasket diagnosis.

 

(Looking back, you've probably seen quite a bit of that in your work.)

 

That is why we recommend a small, gentle dose for reinstatement. This will not immediately erase all withdrawal symptoms. That will be a gradual, frustrating process.

 

Please do what you can to enjoy the holidays without alcohol. Usually, any amount of alcohol is destabilizing to a nervous system made vulnerable by withdrawal. You may also wish to taper off caffeine and minimize sugar.

 

Please let us know how you are doing as time goes on. And hug the dog as much as you want!

[nz11]

Wishing you strength Wrenster.

 

Survivng this  was the hardest thing i ever had to do but i made it through and so can you.

 

I find it strange that you are working in this area yet feel you cant tell anyone yet the people you work for are no doubt putting others through this every day.

 

Do keep us updated.

Hang in there.

[nz11]

Wrenster how are you today i think it is now 4 days since you ri a small dose. The body should be registering it now.

 

Hope you are seeing some relief.

 

We are concerned for you.

[wrenster]

Wow such great and comforting posts from you all. Every word taken on board believe me. You ve stuck around SG and NZ and really cant express how much you ce kept me going. I m 3 days into the reinstatement. Bit of a better day today and only short moments of weeping. I dont think theres any tears left in me. I m definetly going to try the meditation again SG.

I spoke to my gp today who did not try and dispute my proprisition of protracted withdrawal. He did n try and get me to reinstate fully i think he thinks maybe i know better than him as a cpn. I have to say my initial illness was mainly depression and i definetly dont feel clinically depressed. I think that says a lot really and shows me this is withdrawal. My dad, partner and best friends all feel i m doing the right thing and have now accepted that this is withdrawal too. So i guess i m gonna tough it out. Its got to be done at some point anyway. I ve come so far with this.

Alto i read your website which was so helpful and really heloed me understand things. I take on board what your saying about the alcohol. Its pretty tough as it was something i enjoyed. Would even one or two low strength drinks set me back? I m sure your answer will be yes. I ve already cut down caffeine and moved to herbal tea. I ve purchased some magnesium and fish oil.

i think being away from work is hugely helpful at present. I can seem to deal with any demands on me at tge min.

[nz11]

Sounds like you are well and truly on board....sounds like we have a whole family buy in. That is so helpful as the last thing one needs is clueless family members saying ignorant unhelpful things.

 

Wow what a great attitude ....remember that often after a good day comes a bad day, often after a bad day can come a real nasty day and after a nasty day can come  ag ood day again and that is the process of healing. 

 

As for the alcohol ...don't go there ....at least not until drug free.

 

“How you doin’, Chewbecca?."....its time to head back to base in the Millinium Falcon  lets see if we can do the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs.

 

 

Keep us updated Wrenster remember you can come here anytime night or day, the support will be provided at light-speed!

 

 

nz11

“We would be honored if you would join us.”

 

“If you’re saying that coming here was a bad good idea, I’m starting to agree with you.”

[ChessieCat]

Hi Wrenster,

 

(NZ just beat me to it! )  I've been keeping up with your posts but didn't have anything to say before now.  The others were looking after you well!

 

Sounds like you are doing so much better now.  That is great news.  I agree with NZ - NO alcohol.  Just not worth it.  Even when stable on ADs it can have an effect, so when changing doses down and up it could have an even worse effect because your brain has taken a bit of a battering.

 

Can't remember if it has been suggested but just wanted to suggest that when you have good times during tapering to get CBT or some similar training done so that you can have the skills during and after tapering.  Even if it's something you have already done, it wouldn't hurt to brush up on it.

 

The members on this site are very supportive and provide encouragement.  It's good that you've got real life now support too.

 

All the best, CC

[SquirrellyGirl]

I just got in after shopping and found your latest, wrenster, and I am so happy to hear that things are looking up!  So, you are reinstated at 5 mg, or are you trying to go without?

 

My thoughts are with you, and as the others said, keep us posted on your progress as we will be here for ya!  nz11 said it best, that there will be tougher days, and better days, the ol' windows and waves, but you understand what is happening to you and have perspective, which is so empowering.  I agree with Chessie - start working on those coping skills with CBT because I believe the reason we ended up on these drugs is in part because we never had the coping skills to deal with life's ups and downs in a balanced way, and that will still be the case when done with sert.  That's what I've been doing this year. 

 

The stress of your work no doubt made your withdrawal more severe, and so we must try to protect ourselves from big stressors.  Since your work is what it is, I guess it will be how you choose to deal with the stress of the job that will make the difference, and that brings us back to the meditation, etc.   I have found that things that used to stress me out badly before doing the work now just float on by, and I credit the messages that spiritual teachers such as Eckhart Tolle to be paramount in that.  

 

Stay present, my friend!

 

SG

[wrenster]

Thank you for your messages lovely people and hi chessiecat. I ve spent a lot of time reading the links about waves and windows. Also the stuff on neuroemotions i could so relate to. SG i m on the 5mg of sertraline. Its been four days now. Less tearful but waves of agitation. I saw jy counsellor today and she really helped. My window of tolerance is so small but she reminded me that it was good 3 weeks ago so it ll improve again. Windows;). Mornings are the worst times. Waking with racing thoughts and anxiety but feeling its too hard to move. I have to kick myself to move. Tried 10 mins of meditation this morning which made the transition easier. Trying to avoid big social events overxmas due to not wanting to be around drunk people. Enjoy your xmas' s and i m forever grateful for your support xxxxx

[nz11]

Hi Wrenster you are doing so well.

 

Wow does this councellor understand ssri wdl?

 

Mornings sure are the worst times ...tell me about it. Have a look at my sig. Eventually very slowly they get better in the meantime its a matter of survival.

 

Just spotted a great post on another thread by member Hopeful to member Hardy .

Never did HBT ..but it does sound interesting and i think Dr Ann Blake tracey has spoken on this too.

 

Hopefull, on 24 Dec 2015 - 6:43 PM, said:

Sorry to hear that you are still struggling.
But as I have mentioned to you previously,
you have to toughen it out.
There is no pill, potion that can help to elevate WD symptoms.
I am speaking from my own experience.
I have tried so many supplements, herbs etc. nothing has helped to relieve WD symptoms.
The only thing that helped me was Hyperbaric Chamber Therapy.
It is really costly and I have not been able to continue.
Appart from that nothing helped.
I would have bad reactions from the suppliments.
There could be a possibility that the suppliments that you are taking are making you feel worse.
I can understand your pain, but you need to learn to be patient.
Patience and perseverance is the key to get through the difficult times.
Anxiety makes you question everything.
You don't know what causing what, especially in WD.
So you obsess over it, trying to work out what is what.
In the mean time you are making your self anxious as you are not getting a clear answer.
I have been there done that.
In time you will learn to accept your situation and only then will you begin to heal.
Remember time is a healer. You will reclaim your life and you will be happy again.

Best wishes to you,
Hopefull.

[nz11]

Here is a link to get a free download of Ann Blake Traceys cd 'help i cant get off my antidepressants'

It an interesting listen.

http://grizzom.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/help-i-cant-get-off-my-antidepressant.html

[ChessieCat]

Just started listening to Ann's mp3 and it is very interesting.  Thanks for posting the link.  CC

[wrenster]

Thanks NZ for taking such an interest in my case and offering such great help. Have started listening to that download about ssris. Shocking! Good job i m getting off them now apparently if taken during pregnancy high chance of child having autism! Had a better day today. Not one tear. Got myself to the gym which helped. Lifes not too stressful at the min which is helping no end. Love to you all fur xmas xxx

[SquirrellyGirl]

Thanks NZ for taking such an interest in my case and offering such great help. Have started listening to that download about ssris. Shocking! Good job i m getting off them now apparently if taken during pregnancy high chance of child having autism! Had a better day today. Not one tear. Got myself to the gym which helped. Lifes not too stressful at the min which is helping no end. Love to you all fur xmas xxx

   

[wrenster]

Not sure the reinstatemwnt has done much. Been a tough day. :(

[wrenster]

You have to be such a strong person to manage this. Crying constantly again . X

[ChessieCat]

Quote from Wrenster's Post # 13: 

Posted 21 December 2015 - 03:47 AM

"I therefore just took 5mg via syringe. To be honest i m tempted to go back on the full dose if this doesn help."

 

Hi Wrenster,  The idea of reinstating 5mg was to see how it went.  I suggest that you DO NOT go back to the full dose.  If it has been 6 days since you reinstated and you haven't had any improvement you may need to increase a SMALL bit more.  One of the mods should be able to suggest how much to increase.

 

CC

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Wrenster, 

 

Did the 5 mg ever seem to help?  We are still vulnerable to stress, so even when we seem better a stressor could blow us back into a wave.  You could also try adding another 5 mg, or do 7.5 mg total and see if that helps.

 

Were there thoughts leading to the crying?  Just try to notice the thoughts and remind yourself that they are generated by WD and to just not let them have power over you!  I know it is very hard to do that.  Lots of deep breathes, focusing on the sensation of the breathes.

 

I got bumped into a wave yesterday when my dog, who is recovering from ACL surgery, got let outside to potty and took off over the bank behind my parents' house to attack some critter.  I was freaking out because he's not supposed to be so active, and that put me into a mild wave.  Better today, though. Remind yourself that a setback today does not necessarily mean that this evening or tomorrow will be bad.  Things can change quickly!

 

You ARE very strong!  

SG

[wrenster]

Hi chessie and SG. Thanks for your posts. I dont like the idea of increasing the dose amymore. It all seems a bit pointless. Surely if a small dose hasn worked then prob wont make any difference. I m takin it i shouldn just stop the 5mg even though its not working.

with regards to triggers sg i think my dog also has been one. I have an active bordercollie who tore his pad at the weekend. He is supposed to rest but keeps runnin round tge house re tearing the pad which is very distressing. He s very frustrated and i feel cruel that i cant take him out which has really been upsetting me. So yes there has been a trigger. I also find it hard that my boyfriend is out seeing all his friends and i cant go cos they are all drinking. Our social life revolved around friends and drink. This is northern ireland lol. Feel quite isolated. My motivation is zapped. Things seem pointless. Normally i do my upcycling or exercising. I m eating loads of junk to comfortmyself. I know i know its not good. Am i strong SG . I dont feel it. I m crap company and my partner is being supportive but its so unfair i m ruining his annual leave with my mood. I m so so irritable. He d be better off without me.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Wrenster,

 

I've just done a quick review of the posts here and I suggest you re-read BrassMonkey's post

 

Also, I suggest you watch this video:  Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery  It might help you understand what is happening in the brain.

 

When you have come off a drug quickly it hasn't give the brain enough time to adapt to not getting the drug.  Whilst taking the drug the brain has changed to need the drug.  When you get withdrawal symptoms, reinstating can help to relieve some of the symptoms and give the brain the drug it needs.  If you have been off the drug for a while, you start trialling reinstatement with a small amount because you don't know how much change has happened in your brain during the time you have been off the drug.  If the withdrawal symptoms are still bad after 5-7 days you can then consider increasing a bit more to see if that works because the brain may need more of the drug.

 

I hope this helps.

 

BTW it is possible to go out and socialise without drinking alcohol!  CC

[SquirrellyGirl]

I have found that even when I am "stable," stressors can cause little waves.  So, try to be kind to yourself and ditch any negativity about yourself, such as "he'd be better off without me."   You didn't ask to be in this situation with the meds, and don't deserve any of this.  The last thing you need to do is abandon yourself.  I don't feel it is helpful to get caught in a victim narrative, but it might help to think of there being a "you" inside that is that little girl that needs to be taken care of, nurtured.  And you are aware of the anger neuro-emotion causing difficulty, so your only job is to notice it and other negative emotions, give them your attention and then try to let them float on by.  I have a friend on here who routinely rages at her family when she is in a wave, and then apologizes.  I find myself snapping at my husband, catch it, and then say "yup, I'm having an irritable WD and I'm sorry, Sweetie :-)  I  know how that feels, though, the rage just blowing up out of nowhere for nothing!  Again, please don't beat yourself up over these things ;-)

 

ChessieCat explained it perfectly, as to why nudging up little by little is important, and that the brain may still need a tiny bit more to find relief.  It is truly a titration situation of finding the sweet spot if it is there.

 

And yes, you can go out and not drink!  I know, part of the culture, but maybe going along with distract you from this situation.  It can be of benefit to not isolate yourself :-)

 

And yes you are strong, because you are still here and have been making it through each day!  A lot of people find themselves thinking that they just can't take another day, so the fact that you have is a testament to your strength!  

 

Remember, there is Life, and then there are life's Situaitons.   There is You, all goodness before Life's Situations, and then there's You under stress from life's situations, with all the emotions and reactions resulting.  You are still in there, and You are deserving of love, comfort, and nurturing.  And don't forget to Breathe!

 

SG

[brassmonkey]

Hi Wrenster--  I'm sorry to hear that you're still having problems. Patience is the key.  Reinstatement is one of the most frustrating things one can do while in WD.

It takes so long to see any results and we're never even sure that they will happen.  With it only being less than a week since you reinstated there has hardly been enough time for the drug to become steady state in your blood, let alone cause any improvements.  I hate to say it but you're going to have to give it several more weeks before considering another move.  We have to train ourselves to think in "Geologic" time frames when dealing with this stuff.  Maddening but true.

 

By the time you're finished getting off of this stuff you'll have found an inner strength that is unbelievable and nothing will phase you for the rest of your life.

[wrenster]

Thanks guys. I woke up early today. Did a ten min mefitation. Straight to gym. Healthy lunch. Now going for a swim. Its keeping it at bay a bit. I think i need to focus on doing things that make me feel good like exwecise rather than getting myself in a rut analysimg it all which seems to happrn if i ve not got enough distracting me. I think your right brass monkey about sticking with this dose for a few weeks. I think works playong on my mind as well. Would you guys recommend taking a long period of sickness? I m scared i ll rush back and end up going off again. I ve ready had a few short periods over the past 6 months due to withdrawal effects and i m sure ill get another occ health referral. I m using my mum s health as an exscuse. She has alzhrimers which has been a huge stress. My gp is just writing stress and anxiety on the sick line although he knows the other reason. I feel slightly dishonest.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Wow, good job on all the self-care!  I am impressed with your motivation to do all that physical activity, wrenster!  That has been something I've been short on for some time.  I used to be very active and work out all the time, but I think the meds really dampened that - in fact, I think Effexor was largely responsible for my losing motivation and doubting myself.

 

How long of a leave would you be able to take?  Certainly, if being at work keeps triggering withdrawal waves, then leave seems like a good idea.  It is tough to advise because the windows and waves are so unpredictable. Maybe others will chime in.

 

I am glad brassmonkey weighed in.  When things are awful we tend to want to "fix it" by acting in some way, and it helps to have someone who knows say "just sit tight."  The fact that you were able to do so much for yourself today is a good sign!

 

SG

[KarenB]

Hello Wrenster,

 

I woke up at 3:30am (I'm in NZ) and have been sitting here reading right through your thread.  For what it's worth, I think you are doing really really well.  You've figured out key things, and have continued to make good decisions in what has been a tough time for you.  

 

I had a couple of thoughts:  1) keep your exercise to a gentle level that doesn't ramp up your symptoms.  2) Writing daily notes of your symptoms can be an encouraging thing over time.  It's particularly useful for figuring out how reinstatement is going.  

 

The way you are working through all this is encouraging to read.  Keep going...

 

KarenB

[wrenster]

Thanks karen. Appreciate u reading and giving your thoughts. Such a lovely bunch of people on here. Exercise does help me. I wasn aware it could make things worse.

SG i would need to carry on with a sickline and would end up going through occ health who would assess my fitness to work with my gp recommendation.

[nz11]

Would you guys recommend taking a long period of sickness? I m scared i ll rush back and end up going off again. I ve ready had a few short periods over the past 6 months due to withdrawal effects and i m sure ill get another occ health referral. I m using my mum s health as an exscuse. She has alzhrimers which has been a huge stress. My gp is just writing stress and anxiety on the sick line although he knows the other reason. I feel slightly dishonest.

Here is the thing...no one  knows how long protracted withdrawal will last and it could be for years.

No one has that much leave available however in saying that i do recall someone telling me on this site that they in fact did have 4 years available to them. (what a job ...must do a search and see where they are at)

 

ssri wdl has the ability to rip jobs off people. My feeling is as difficult as it is go to work even if you feel you cant perform to normal standards ...that's not your fault.

If you cant and decide to take sick leave you may find that it soon vapourizes.

Perhaps you do have a year or two of  sick leave up your sleeve ...if so you are very fortunate.

 

I wouldn't feel dishonest, its the doctor who should feel dishonest and why isn't he  recording this correctly as 'iatrogenic psychotropic drug injury -ssri protracted withdrawal.'

The reason he perhaps is noting stress and anxiety is to enable him to avoid responsibility.

 

yes be careful in exercise esp aerobic exercise ..you cant load the cns as one normally would...for me it triggered a panic attack and sent me finding answers from the doctor when i was 2 months drug free and resulted in maintaining my drug addiction for another 6 years. So as Karen says be gentle with the exercise.

[wrenster]

Nz my gp is writing that cos i told him too. I never disclosed my previous mh probs to my employors. I m scared they ll sack me for with holding information. This is causing me added stress cos i am being dishonest . My friend is doing reiki on me today to see if that helps x

[nz11]

How about if you ask the doc to record it as iatrogenic injuries i wonder if he would be as obliging.

Or maybe the word akathisia instead of anxiety.

 

Gee  i am sorry to hear your employer is not very understanding ...i would have thought of all employers that yours would have at least some understanding.

 

Good luck with the reiki. (Must admit i have no idea what that is.)

 

Later....did a google...

Reiki is a Japanese technique for stress reduction and relaxation that also promotes healing. It is administered by "laying on hands" and is based on the idea that an unseen "life force energy" flows through us and is what causes us to be alive. If one's "life force energy" is low, then we are more likely to get sick or feel stress, and if it is high, we are more capable of being happy and healthy.

 

May the Force be [high] with you.

[wrenster]

Hi guys. Just checkin in. I have felt more settled since the reiki in terms of anxiety. I was irritable yesterday and got annoyed over small things. My partner really had a go at me about this and said some awful things such as what a terrible relationship this was. He did later say he realised it was the wd and not me but its def taken its toll on him. I often wonder if this will destroy us and hate what i ve become. I think i would be better tryong to go back to work next week as i m ot great with too much time to think. I m gonna try and keep going as like you said SG wd can last a year or so and i cant afford to lose my job over this. X

[AliG]

If you can keep everything as normal as possible , throughout this , you will be better off. Keeping your job could be " key", as well as your relationship. When you come out the other side , it will help to have everything , in order. ( hard as that may be.)  Obviously, this isn't always possible , but worth striving for, at least.

Ali

[wrenster]

I agree ali. Just hope i do come out of it

[AliG]

You will get through this. Patience and acceptance.  

[brassmonkey]

Hi Wrenster-- We just got a long post about the physical effects of benzo WD that is very applicable to ADWD, different drugs but similar mechanisms.  Reading through it may shed some light on what is happening.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10914-what-is-happening-in-your-brain/

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi guys. Just checkin in. I have felt more settled since the reiki in terms of anxiety. I was irritable yesterday and got annoyed over small things. My partner really had a go at me about this and said some awful things such as what a terrible relationship this was. He did later say he realised it was the wd and not me but its def taken its toll on him. I often wonder if this will destroy us and hate what i ve become. I think i would be better tryong to go back to work next week as i m ot great with too much time to think. I m gonna try and keep going as like you said SG wd can last a year or so and i cant afford to lose my job over this. X

Fantastic! So glad that your BF backed up and realized it was WD.  I've had my snappishness with my hubby but always try to remind him it is WD and I'm in a cranky mood, and sorry for being like that!  And just remember, this is NOT forever!  This is not YOU, and it is not permanent!

 

There is something for being busy as opposed to having too much time to THINK too much!  When it gets stressful at work, step back, breathe, and let it float by.  You can do it!  I'm so glad the anxiety has settled a bit!

 

SG

[wrenster]

Aw thanks SG. Always grateful for your support. Its so weird how i get things so out of proportion at the time and then feel so guilty later. What man will put up with this for much longer. I m hormonal at the min which obviously doesn help. Thanks brassmonkey for the link i ll have a good read of that.