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Nadia

Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression, and withdrawal symptoms

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Barbarannamated

"It seems like it is being used like meds as a first resort when perhaps the patient has an underlying issue that is causing the problem.

Now I do realize that CBT doesn't have dangerous med side effects but it still has the effect of being totally demoralizing by pathologizing a patient with a psychological issue for what may be a correctable medical issue."

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

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Skyler

"It seems like it is being used like meds as a first resort when perhaps the patient has an underlying issue that is causing the problem.

Now I do realize that CBT doesn't have dangerous med side effects but it still has the effect of being totally demoralizing by pathologizing a patient with a psychological issue for what may be a correctable medical issue."

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.. ~S

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Barbarannamated

Circling back to CS's original point regarding sleep issues... it seems that this would be primarily physiological/drug interference of sleep architectures and loss of dream states which are (I thought) how we un/subconsciously work out life issues. Or did I just dream that? ;)

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Skyler

Circling back to CS's original point regarding sleep issues... it seems that this would be primarily physiological/drug interference of sleep architectures and loss of dream states which are (I thought) how we un/subconsciously work out life issues. Or did I just dream that? ;)

 

Both are involved Barb, but as with any problem, we bring ourselves so one needs to consider both. Speaking for myself here, the way I deal with withdrawal is also the way I deal with the larger world. When I look to causes, it is necessary for me to look at both. Each one in isolation would leave the other wanting.

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compsports

 

"It seems like it is being used like meds as a first resort when perhaps the patient has an underlying issue that is causing the problem.

Now I do realize that CBT doesn't have dangerous med side effects but it still has the effect of being totally demoralizing by pathologizing a patient with a psychological issue for what may be a correctable medical issue."

 

Gu

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.. ~S

 

Hi Schuyler,

 

Sorry I am late in responding.

 

I like the point you made. What comes to mind is CBT for example would teach you to reframe the situation regarding someone who is treating you like crap when actually there is alot you could do to change the situation.

 

I am not saying that is always the case but my concern is that CBT would close off possible options.

 

CS

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Barbarannamated

Excellent statement, CS!

 

I'm sorry to keep harping on the dangers of CBT, but - for those of us who have learned to UNDERreact and make excuses for others' wrong behavior - I believe CBT is truly harmful.

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Skyler

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.

What comes to mind is CBT for example would teach you to reframe the situation regarding someone who is treating you like crap when actually there is alot you could do to change the situation.

I am not saying that is always the case but my concern is that CBT would close off possible options.

 

Yes, reframing is a type of CBT. A person who baits people into 'treating me like crap' by altering the way they think about a situation might be missing the reason they tend to get into this sort of fix repeatedly. Depth work is recommended when personality patterns are the underlying factor. There are a number of CBT strategies that seek to identify underlying issues, but unless the past is addressed it still comes down to layering one set of cognitions on top of another ~S

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dalsaan

It reminds me of that saying - when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Ive never had a medical practitioner of any kind say to me, I think you need a screw driver rather than my hammer

They say I'm not sure whats going on here but come closer and I will give that invisible nail a whack.

 

I sympathize, simple mindedness and severe sleep deprivation do not go well together

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compsports

Excellent statement, CS!

 

I'm sorry to keep harping on the dangers of CBT, but - for those of us who have learned to UNDERreact and make excuses for others' wrong behavior - I believe CBT is truly harmful.

 

Thanks Barb.

 

You don't owe any apologies and I am glad that you do keeping harping on the dangers. I think the danger with any popular movement is that critical thinking goes out by the wayside which I guess is not surprising in this quick fix society.

 

CS

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compsports

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.

What comes to mind is CBT for example would teach you to reframe the situation regarding someone who is treating you like crap when actually there is alot you could do to change the situation.

I am not saying that is always the case but my concern is that CBT would close off possible options.

 

Yes, reframing is a type of CBT. A person who baits people into 'treating me like crap' by altering the way they think about a situation might be missing the reason they tend to get into this sort of fix repeatedly. Depth work is recommended when personality patterns are the underlying factor. There are a number of CBT strategies that seek to identify underlying issues, but unless the past is addressed it still comes down to layering one set of cognitions on top of another ~S

 

Great analysis S.

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compsports

It reminds me of that saying - when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Ive never had a medical practitioner of any kind say to me, I think you need a screw driver rather than my hammer

They say I'm not sure whats going on here but come closer and I will give that invisible nail a whack.

 

I sympathize, simple mindedness and severe sleep deprivation do not go well together

 

Hi Dalsaan,

 

Thanks!

 

Wow, you have experienced medical professionals who admit they don't know what is going on but still want to do the one size fits all treatment. That is scary but I guess isn't too surprising in this quick fix society.

 

CS

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Gem

Thanks for this topic.

 

I have found that CBT can help with some things but with other areas it doesn’t quite cut the mustard. I also think it can be misused in the wrong hands.

 

I was told to “rationalize” my feelings by someone on a helpline, when I had been unable to do my artwork (something that is very, very important to me) for a long period of time, due to withdrawal. I had just been crying about it. Looking back and considering the situation and what I was going through, my feelings were totally rational, understandable and valid!

 

I would like to say to this woman that I had every right to feel the way I did and that it is important and healthy to have & experience feelings and to grieve loss. No one should be invited to feel guilty or lacking because they feel sad or are brave enough to face up to their feelings.

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Altostrata

Would anyone mind if I moved this to the Symptoms forum?

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Skyler

Would anyone mind if I moved this to the Symptoms forum?

 

:) Not me! And I doubt Compost would mind either. Thanks for asking.

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Barbarannamated

Very much ON TOPIC!

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Altostrata

Hey compost, what do you think? You are the OP (original poster).

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Barbarannamated

Lol!! Don'cha love autocorrect?!

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Gem

No, I wouldn't mind if this was moved. Good idea.

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Nikki

The only reason I would think CBT would be good for sleep issues is due to venting to a counselor, getting things up and out and having validation or a listening ear. Purging?

 

EMDR therapy helped to relieve or take the charge out of emotional issues from the past and that helped with sleep. Alot of baggage was unearthed and released.

 

Nikki

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compsports

Hey compost, what do you think? You are the OP (original poster).

 

Ok with me.

 

CS

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Barbarannamated

The only reason I would think CBT would be good for sleep issues is due to venting to a counselor, getting things up and out and having validation or a listening ear. Purging?

 

EMDR therapy helped to relieve or take the charge out of emotional issues from the past and that helped with sleep. Alot of baggage was unearthed and released.

Nikki

 

I just notice your post, Nikki.

 

If CBT worked that way, I'd agree. However, the times I've tried CBT it was quite the opposite - not venting, but "reframing" and minimizing my thoughts. It was the opposite of purging or validation, in my experience. Ive always rationalized and explained away other people's behavior to myself, made excuses for them, didnt give myself permission to be angry.

 

I know ive criticized CBT repeatedly and don't know if it was due to my experiences...? The info Schuyler has posted is consistent with my experience, though.

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Nikki

I've shared that I go to Al-Anon meetings which is 12 steps. Going thru the steps is therapy in itself. IN step 4 we do a through self inventory which is shared with a sponsor. It takes months and it is written using several books.

 

I found out where patterns come from along with blocks, character shortcomings, and above all mistaken beliefs.

 

The next step is admitting them to another. What happened for me aside from purging and alot of crying was that the sponsor I had was able to help me see the better part of myself and how I did what I did with the knowledge I had at the time so I could let go of guilt and stop beating myself up.

 

This therapy is free, and speaking one-on-one helps break thru trust and intimacy.

 

I have 6 more steps to go thru.

 

There is another Fellowship - ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics or just a dysfunctional family). This is where most of the 'stuff' started and the premise is to learn how to reparent. I've only done 4 meetings so far, but I really like it. The opening suggests that when someone shares and cries to let them cry without hugging them, so that they can feel their feelings and to teach us to stop trying to fix others.

 

I have been using the Fellowships as my Therapy ;) It's powerful stuff and financially we all put a dollar in the donation bag and we have breakfast or lunch after meetings :D

 

That's where my therapy is at now B) Would love to do EMDR for am anxiety and will look into it once again......it's expensive

 

Hugs

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amg2012

Just received an e-mail message from Amazon entitled Top Bargains which included this Book for dummies - forget the title; they re good books. I have the book on the topic by Burns... CGT is very effective. Just thought y'all might find this of interest.

 

http://www.amazon.ca/Cognitive-Behavioural-Therapy-For-Dummies/dp/0470665416/ref=pd_ts_zgc_b_263003011_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&pf_rd_p=1288916542&pf_rd_s=right-4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=263003011&pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_r=14HHRAPDX6BP1RP2ZMMB

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Altostrata

!!!!

 

Why does this book title strike me as odd??

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Zoe

Dr. Amen has some good books out. The ANTS chapter in one really made sense to me. It explained why these same negative thought patterns would keep reappearing. I kept thinking that I had resolved that issue and it would pop up again almost word for word. 

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Lilu

 

Although I've had extensive CBT and much success with it, I am currently trying to find a dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) specialist locally (or via skype). I am attracted by the unorthodox "therapist as ally" approach in this type of therapy even though it is traditionally a treatment for borderline personality disorder.

I definitely found DBT useful for a lot of issues (I was in both individual and group DBT therapy for a couple of years). The mindfulness part, and finding your wise mind and such really helped, as did distress tolerance and tips on dealing with other people. I think I had trouble with some of the details, or how it was implemented in my particular case... maybe it was because it was really focused on preventing self-harm and I wanted to take it further. Oh... and now I remember something else... my therapist NEVER wanted me to talk about anything in the past (even beyond a week), as he said it was useless, but my first therapist had encouraged me to find patterns that went back to my childhood, and I had found that very helpful... so there was a point where I felt like I dead-ended with him. I wanted a bit more of the toolbox approach Bright was talking about...

 

 

I have been going to a DBT therapist and group therapy for over a year.  I find most of the suggestions on the handouts really useless.  The distress tolerance handout is especially ridiculous to me.  Totally unhelpful when one is going through incredibly intense and uncontrollable emotions.  

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ang

Hi Nadia, I've had issues with anxiety for other 30 years, it started when I was around 6. (Fortunately no-one ever tried to medicate me for it, and I refused medication for many years as an adult - instead I've had a range of counselling instead, some of it CBT based. I've used thought challenging very successfully, I used to write them down much as Patience describes but now can usually just do it in my head. However, I found this worked great for obviously silly and unlikely anxious thoughts but not so well for ones that were less silly e.g my husband might have died in a freak accident - not likely, versus now I've had depression and can get anxious easily I'm going to struggle to find a job when I finish my postgraduate studies - quite possible given current ecomomic environment and some peoples predjudices. Just attempting to challenge the second type of thought can leave me locked into a prolonged period of rumination and this doesn't help me at all. Instead I'm using some techniques from ACT - Acceptance Commitment Therapy where there are links to CBT and also mindfulness. Here there is more emphasis on noticing your thoughts come and go and noting them, you can then decide what positive action youu can take right now that might help you. So for example I might start to panic about my husband being late home from work and him being hurt somewhere, I note this as my typical late home work thoughts - I do this one a lot, I quickly run through some more likely explanations e.g. perhaps his train is late. Then I considered some actions I can do to help right now e.g take a few calming breaths, if I haven't heard from him in 30mins text to see where he is. Finally I try to be compassionate to myself for being scared, this last one I'm still very much learning, I have to watch I don't tell myself off instead. A useful book on ACT and anxiety I've found is the wonderfully titled: Things Might Go Terribly , Horribly Wrong : A Guide to Life Liberated from Anxiety( Deckle Edge ) (Paperback ) Kelly Wilson, Troy DuFrene There is also book called The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris about both anxiety and depression. All best, Bright.

Well done.  I now realise I hate Christmas every year, cause my dad suicided two days before Christmas, when I was six.  I now realise I was so stressed at the same age, as my mother when my dad suicided.  Did that twice, two lots of kids... so sure my husband would suicide, how silly???  Yep he used that knowledge to his advantage, the bastard.  Think about your childhood, yes it affects us all, we expect the same to happen to us as our childhood.  My friend stressed so much that she was going to get serious Arthritis, as her mother had... People stressed about having a heart attack at a certain age, as their father had done.

 

 

 

Although I've had extensive CBT and much success with it, I am currently trying to find a dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) specialist locally (or via skype). I am attracted by the unorthodox "therapist as ally" approach in this type of therapy even though it is traditionally a treatment for borderline personality disorder.

I definitely found DBT useful for a lot of issues (I was in both individual and group DBT therapy for a couple of years). The mindfulness part, and finding your wise mind and such really helped, as did distress tolerance and tips on dealing with other people. I think I had trouble with some of the details, or how it was implemented in my particular case... maybe it was because it was really focused on preventing self-harm and I wanted to take it further. Oh... and now I remember something else... my therapist NEVER wanted me to talk about anything in the past (even beyond a week), as he said it was useless, but my first therapist had encouraged me to find patterns that went back to my childhood, and I had found that very helpful... so there was a point where I felt like I dead-ended with him. I wanted a bit more of the toolbox approach Bright was talking about...

 

 

I have been going to a DBT therapist and group therapy for over a year.  I find most of the suggestions on the handouts really useless.  The distress tolerance handout is especially ridiculous to me.  Totally unhelpful when one is going through incredibly intense and uncontrollable emotions.  

 

What is dbt?

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Polly1974

Hello

 

I'm sorry to post again (only joined yesterday) hope its OK.

 

I just wondered whether anyone else struggles to see any benefit from CBT therapy whilst in the throes of withdrawal.

 

I have been doing CBT and exposure therapy for my original OCD (which has amplified to unbearable levels during withdrawal) and am not seeing any results.

 

Is it possible that being in a withdrawal state affects the efficiency of these type of therapies.

 

Thanks to anyone that replies, I most grateful

Polly xx

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compsports

Hello

 

I'm sorry to post again (only joined yesterday) hope its OK.

 

I just wondered whether anyone else struggles to see any benefit from CBT therapy whilst in the throes of withdrawal.

 

I have been doing CBT and exposure therapy for my original OCD (which has amplified to unbearable levels during withdrawal) and am not seeing any results.

 

Is it possible that being in a withdrawal state affects the efficiency of these type of therapies.

 

Thanks to anyone that replies, I most grateful

Polly xx

Hi Polly,

 

Many people have said it shouldn't but I disagree.  It just seems like when you are in an altered neurological state, therapies like CBT that essentially require you to restate negative thoughts in a positive manner are not going to be helpful.

 

Personally, if I were doing therapy, I would look into ACT which teaches you how to work with your negative thoughts so that they aren't a barrier in your life. It just seems to make more sense to me.

 

But this is just my opinion and maybe I haven't considered everything about CBT.

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Polly1974

Hello compsports

 

Thanks so much for the kind reply, I'm most grateful to you. I will look into that therapy. Thank you

 

Hope your coping OK today

Polly xx

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smarty

tell me how to handle withdrawal symtoms

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dalsaan

Smarty, please make a post in the introductions forum and tell us something about yourself and we can help you

 

Dalsaan

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Petunia

Several similar topics merged.

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WantoffVen

I see there's not too much on this site about cognitive behavorial therapy. I am planning on starting it. I was excited about giving it a try. Has anyone seen positive benefits? I have always had a problem with anxiety and have medicated for it so as I'm weaning I am feeling some anxiety and I thought this could help me deal with it. I will really need this even if I am every successful weaning off meds I think. Any thoughts?

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ChessieCat

I did a supported online course about 4 years ago and found it very helpful.  I wished I had learned it when I was in my teen years (in late 50s when I did the course).  It's a great life skill to have.

 

Claire Weekes was a doctor who suffered from anxiety.  She learned and taught ways of coping.  

 

There is also a book titled Dare: The New Way to End Anxiety and Stop Panic Attacks Fast by Barry McDonagh which some members have found helpful.

 

These are some things which I found on the web:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 
Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

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WantoffVen

Thanks Chessie. I am going to an LCPC  (licensed counsellor) at my psychiatrist's office for one-on-one instruction. I'm sure it can't hurt. I will look at the web sites you have given me also.

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