Terry4949: withdrawal help

[AmyK]

Hi! There are a lot of critics. Check out the danish physician Peter Götsches work. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1846198844/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_1/259-9154486-5470347?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5RRZP3TA1J20GM124MGH&dpPl=1&dpID=51p8MDch1yL 

 

and the NY based psychiatrist   Kelly Brogan. http://kellybroganmd.com/start-here/

 

and Robert Whitaker. 

 

all the best, Amy

[powerback]

1 minute ago, AmyK said:

Hi! There are a lot of critics. Check out the danish physician Peter Götsches work. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1846198844/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_1/259-9154486-5470347?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5RRZP3TA1J20GM124MGH&dpPl=1&dpID=51p8MDch1yL 

 

and the NY based psychiatrist   Kelly Brogan. http://kellybroganmd.com/start-here/

 

and Robert Whitaker. 

 

all the best, Amy

hi Amy ,I absolutely love peter and Robert ,they are at the fore front of the criticism ,we live in an amazing time ,there is a serious shift in the knowledge and information at our finger tips .I don't watch to much lately ,strongly triggered but I love listening when I can.

a lot of our actions come with responsibility thought ,at Christmas when I said no to Zyprexa and hospital ,it was up to me to recover and show it can be done ,now I am still in protracted withdrawl ,but I'm determined to show medical doctors there wrong [in my case anyhow ].

[PoetJester]

Hi Terry,

 

I had just typed out a post to you and it disappeared. I had been saying I have been having the same problems with my new psychiatrist as you have been having with the psychiatrists you have been seeing.  I quit sertraline and olanzapine cold turkey in 2014 and my continued deteriorating sleep, along with fatigue and digestive problems had caused me to go see a psychiatrist for the first time in over 4 years this past june.  I was down to only 2-3 hours of terrible sleep a night.   my new shrink prescribed normal doses of remeron and Seroquel, and they helped with sleep somewhat, but have been causing me issues with fatigue where I feel really lethargic the next day and also have a decreased libido and the Seroquel seems to make my brain hurt. 

 

I had read ArticJessy's post about reinstating a low dose of Prozac (1 mg) and slowly building up the dose and eventually feeling better.  she had been in wd for 2+ years and was miserable like many of us, and reported back a last month after having started the low dose reinstatement 7months ago and said she was  feeling better.  

 

Her new post had given me hope, so I called the nurse at the psychiatrist's office and asked if she could ask my psychiatrist for a low dose script for either Prozac or Lexapro.  In the past psychiatrists have been quite liberal in writing out scripts to me, even though I never really wanted any of the pills they were pushing on me.   I had told the nurse that the low dose reinstatement's are usually a better option for those in wd as opposed to full dosage.   I got a call back last week from the nurse saying that my new psychiatrist didn't think a low dose reinstatement would work in my case and refused to write me a script.  it was strange and disheartening.  I mean, how would she know if a low dose reinstatement would work or not?  it's quite a presumption.   I have only seen her once so she doesnt' really know me well and I am not really sure how familiar she is with wd issues.  

 

anyways, I just wanted to offer a little commiseration on the psychiatrists being difficult for no apparent reason front.  I also have been running into the same types of bureaucracy and ignorance in trying to get my Gp's or GI doctors to listen to me or do anything helpful for me,

 

poetjester 

[Terry4949]

I am so done in now , I have felt so low and depressed this last week , I can't get out of this hole , to think this can and I know will go on for years is to much for me , I am damned to a life of suffering and with all the literature out there on this even if I bite the bullet no med is going to help me , what's the point , nearly 4 years of suffering and I am still in this situation 

[JenJen]

I'm so sorry Terry.  I get what you mean.  I wish I could help.  Maybe people who are smarter than me can help.  Are there any P-docs or regular docs anywhere who get this stuff?

[Terry4949]

Out of shear frustration and turmoil yesterday as I was in a living hell , I took 2 mg of diazepam as I was rocking back and forward so depressed crying like a baby and praying to god to end this nightmare for me , with in a hour the calmness fell on me and my body stoped aching and shaking I felt the first little bit of relief that I have in years , so how can a medication do this and we feel relief yet no one can come up with a way of relieving our suffering using the same path ways as this drug without getting us addicted, I have not taken a tablet today and have returned to my normally state , I am not planing on taking another one as I don't ever want to withdraw from another med , the thought of taking it is tempting as it relieved some of my suffering and it felt good to be relaxed , if this works on our cns what other none meds could have the same effect  , I know it's fighting fire with fire , but the relief was much needed , I swore 5 months ago I would never take another med again and I feel I have let myself down badly but if I hadn't had taken something yesterday I think I might have done something more serious , 

[bhasski]

Hi terry,

Just saw dj's post.. hes supplementing with turmeric and having good results with it. I know diazepam sounds easy and quick and tempting... but consider it as last resort.

For turmeric, it contains curcumin which is known for anti anxiety effects and boost up serotonin...  well leave sceince BS aside.. its good and does no harm.

I too will start with it. Being Indian, we have a lot of its use daily..  I have been told to take a teaspoon in honey... you can try that way or supplement with market capsules.

I still believe there is light after this doom.

[mammaP]

I am so sorry that you are suffering this way Terry, and completely understand why you are tempted to take diazepam, by all means have one occasionally but usually the rebound anxiety when the drug has left the system feel even worse than before taking it. I admire your strength avoiding it for so long and I am sure that you already know what I am saying but just backing you up.  Do you take fish oil and magnesium? They really are the best supplements. Be careful if you try turmeric, it is a great supplement but start with a low dose. It would be great to be able to tell people what to take to make it better, but the best we can do is understand and support each other when the world doesn't understand. 

[bhasski]

mammaP,  you are right. 

I know it could effect differently on broken CNS ... support is utmost.

 

[Terry4949]

15 minutes ago, mammaP said:

I am so sorry that you are suffering this way Terry, and completely understand why you are tempted to take diazepam, by all means have one occasionally but usually the rebound anxiety when the drug has left the system feel even worse than before taking it. I admire your strength avoiding it for so long and I am sure that you already know what I am saying but just backing you up.  Do you take fish oil and magnesium? They really are the best supplements. Be careful if you try turmeric, it is a great supplement but start with a low dose. It would be great to be able to tell people what to take to make it better, but the best we can do is understand and support each other when the world doesn't understand. 

Hi mammap , I have been taking two capsules of fish oil a day may be I need to take more , I also today got some calcium with magnesium tablets so I am going to try them I will have one before bed , I was just so desperate yesterday I no benzos are not the answer but it did give me relief but suffering today

[mammaP]

Definitely up the fish oil, go up by one at a time but don't do that and start the magnesium at the same time. If there is a problem you won't know what is causing it.  I couldn't tolerate the calcium, but it might be fine for you. Start with the lowest dose and go up if you are ok with it. I think I would try the mag first, then go up on fish oil when you know you are tolerating the magnesium. 

[JenJen]

I'm so sorry Terry.  I also understand what you did.  Just a thought do you have a lot of meds in your possession?  You may want to put them somewhere that safe so it is hard to get at if you are in need.  

[Terry4949]

9 minutes ago, JenJen said:

I'm so sorry Terry.  I also understand what you did.  Just a thought do you have a lot of meds in your possession?  You may want to put them somewhere that safe so it is hard to get at if you are in need.  

Jenjen the only meds I have in my house are six 2mg diazepam and a few Effexor capsules and I have been of them for a couple of years that is it , I was so desperate yesterday , years of no relief I just thought sod it just for once , I no it's not the answer , it was lovely to feel calm for a little while , back to normal today , I no taking benzos are only going to cause more harm in the long run , just needed to tell me life is still worth living 

 

[JenJen]

That's great.  It sounds like you made the right decision.  

[Altostrata]

On 7/30/2017 at 11:44 PM, Terry4949 said:

Hi altostrata I have read this many times and I fully understand what it says , trying to convince a doctor is another thing , but I can't go on like this , I wake after a couple of hours sleep my body is so full of cortisol and adrenaline that I wake shaking my legs tremble and it makes me feel so unwell , my room is completely dark I go to bed at the same time get up at the same time , I can hardly eat , I cannot work and I don't get paid so I have the worry of that , the thing is it's getting worse not better , how long before I am completely bed ridden , everyday chores are so hard and I am so fatigued , the thing is the doctors keep telling me I am not trying to help my self by not taking meds even though I have suggested that they read this site , I have been in this constant state for over 3 years and I am getting worse , no life just a awfull survival , people keep telling me I will get better but it doesn't seem to be happening , I am so sorry to ramble on but I am so desperate for some relief , I have tried magnesium and fish oil but they don't do a lot to be honest , reinstatement of any of the drugs is out of the question 5 months out and which one would you reinstate, but no med will help and will make me worse or even push me over the edge , I am a lost soul 

 

Terry, are any of your doctors sympathetic? Can you discuss very low dose lamotrigine with any of them? Any doctor can prescribe it.

 

Magnesium is more calming when it's taken apart from calcium. It's also more effective in small, frequent doses. If you can get magnesium citrate capsules or powder, you can put the powder in water and sip it.

[Terry4949]

55 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Terry, are any of your doctors sympathetic? Can you discuss very low dose lamotrigine with any of them? Any doctor can prescribe it.

 

Magnesium is more calming when it's taken apart from calcium. It's also more effective in small, frequent doses. If you can get magnesium citrate capsules or powder, you can put the powder in water and sip it.

Alto thanks for your reply I was placed on lamotrigine for about a month but found no benifit at all , nothing has helped to be honest , it's the mornings are so bad with the inner shakes and nervousness my body feels like jelly and then the anxiety kicks in , also the constant burning skin , no relief , I have taken magnesium I have some calms formula , perhaps I need to take it regular to see benifits , my doctors won't really take care of me as I am under a phyciatrist so they let them do the work , and they just want to push pills , I just need relief , I am so frightened to go to sleep even though I only get 2 to3 hours as I wake on fire and shaking been like this for about 24 months now ,

 

[Altostrata]

Calms is good.

 

What dosage of lamotrigine were you taking? Do you have any pills left?

[Terry4949]

30 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Calms is good.

 

What dosage of lamotrigine were you taking? Do you have any pills left?

It was started st 5 mg and then went up to 15 mg was on it for roughly 4 weeks but felt no benifit to be honest , doctor just stopped it , like all the other meds c/t , is it possible that now I am of 5 months I have akathesia can it just appear 5 months out , I used to be bad in the morning and did improve slightly as the day went on , now it's all day , I have got some l-theanine I might try a small bit to see if it helps calm me down , 

[Terry4949]

2 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

It was started st 5 mg and then went up to 15 mg was on it for roughly 4 weeks but felt no benifit to be honest , doctor just stopped it , like all the other meds c/t , is it possible that now I am of 5 months I have akathesia can it just appear 5 months out , I used to be bad in the morning and did improve slightly as the day went on , now it's all day , I have got some l-theanine I might try a small bit to see if it helps calm me down , 

Also alto seems I have been c/t of so many medications over the last 16 months and now 5 months of are things only going to get worse I have no option of reinstating, which one would you choose so it's a definite no ,I feel like I am out on a limb , I just want a little relief to help me get through to some sort of stability, I think as well after they through me on and of meds last year I have now become kindled

[Hibari]

Hi Terry,  Relief is relief and you needed it.  I support you in being compassionate with yourself for taking the benzo.  Sometimes having momentary peace can help us figure out the next steps.  You sound very aware of why you took the medication and it was an act of self-care.

 

I take L-Theanine quite regularly for my rebound medication anxiety.  It was actually recommended to me by my psychiatrist when I was making my first cuts of Remeron and was bouncing off the wall even though I was taking my full dose of Lamictal.  He recommended that I could either take 1 100mgs capsule of L-Theanine 3 times a day or 200mgs of L-Theanine 3 times a day.   I did the 200mgs 3 x times a day initially and it helped.   I now take it as needed, sometimes 200mgs, sometimes 100mgs whenever I feel myself getting that inner tension. 

 

I take it a night when I can't sleep and while it doesn't know me out, it allows me to relax.  I also take it during the day when my nervous system is over reacting.   I have read of people taking more, but I recommend you research that.  

 

Some L-Theanine brands have inositol in them but I found that activating so I only use capsules that are pure L-Theanine.

 

Please take my thoughts as recommendations only as I don't know what may or may not work for you.  I can only share my personal experience.

 

[Terry4949]

24 minutes ago, Hibari said:

Hi Terry,  Relief is relief and you needed it.  I support you in being compassionate with yourself for taking the benzo.  Sometimes having momentary peace can help us figure out the next steps.  You sound very aware of why you took the medication and it was an act of self-care.

 

I take L-Theanine quite regularly for my rebound medication anxiety.  It was actually recommended to me by my psychiatrist when I was making my first cuts of Remeron and was bouncing off the wall even though I was taking my full dose of Lamictal.  He recommended that I could either take 1 100mgs capsule of L-Theanine 3 times a day or 200mgs of L-Theanine 3 times a day.   I did the 200mgs 3 x times a day initially and it helped.   I now take it as needed, sometimes 200mgs, sometimes 100mgs whenever I feel myself getting that inner tension. 

 

I take it a night when I can't sleep and while it doesn't know me out, it allows me to relax.  I also take it during the day when my nervous system is over reacting.   I have read of people taking more, but I recommend you research that.  

 

Some L-Theanine brands have inositol in them but I found that activating so I only use capsules that are pure L-Theanine.

 

Please take my thoughts as recommendations only as I don't know what may or may not work for you.  I can only share my personal experience.

 

Hi hibari thanks for your reply , I have got some natures best l-theanine 200 mg tablets so I have cut one in half this morning and taken it , I haven't noticed anything different , still feel awful  will take another 100 mg tonight then go up over the next few days to see if it helps , I am full blown withdrawel now I believe , I have been of 5 months and felt very anxious over that time with horrible physical effects  , but now it has taken a turn for the worse big time , I am stuck out on a limb can't even stabilise on anything , getting worse everyday , c/t sucks so bad , I hope anyone that reads my story really thinks twice about going c/t no matter how bad they feel , I do take fish oil ,and have been sipping magnesium in water today to see if it helps , 

[Hibari]

I hear you Terry.  

 

I found that my whole focus was on doing things to calm my system down.   I could not take anything that was supposed to lift my mood because it was too activating.  I couldn't even take fish oil because for some reason, I got wired. 

 

This post by Monica on Beyond Meds was helpful.  She too could not take any supplements that were about helping people feel up.   I am the same way. 

https://beyondmeds.com/2008/05/12/amino-acids-and-mental-health/

 

I know you are having a very hard time Terry and it can feel lonely.  There are lots of people on this site that are rooting for you. 

[Terry4949]

58 minutes ago, Hibari said:

I hear you Terry.  

 

I found that my whole focus was on doing things to calm my system down.   I could not take anything that was supposed to lift my mood because it was too activating.  I couldn't even take fish oil because for some reason, I got wired. 

 

This post by Monica on Beyond Meds was helpful.  She too could not take any supplements that were about helping people feel up.   I am the same way. 

https://beyondmeds.com/2008/05/12/amino-acids-and-mental-health/

 

I know you are having a very hard time Terry and it can feel lonely.  There are lots of people on this site that are rooting for you. 

Thankyou hibari , I have a wonderful family and they don't really grasp what is going on , they don't get the picture they think that I am suffering depression and I just need to find the next pill to make me better , it is so hard watching them live their lives and not being able to join them , to laugh with them , to do things with them , I am a shell of a man who is very sick , and I want so bad to be well again 

[Hibari]

I get how you feel.  When I am in my most despondent state, other people's happiness causes me to be jealous.  I feel bitter and think how trivial there problems are in relation to the mental and physical agony I go through.  To be honest, that's how I feel but part of it is compromised brain.  I just don't have enough balance to have perspective.

 

I know you want to be well again and that wanting to be better is what will get you through.   My wanting to be better is sometimes fueled by anger, sometimes by hope and sometimes by sheer will.  

 

You are very sick right now but you can heal.  Other people on this site who have experienced what you are going through have healed.

[Terry4949]

7 minutes ago, Hibari said:

I get how you feel.  When I am in my most despondent state, other people's happiness causes me to be jealous.  I feel bitter and think how trivial there problems are in relation to the mental and physical agony I go through.  To be honest, that's how I feel but part of it is compromised brain.  I just don't have enough balance to have perspective.

 

I know you want to be well again and that wanting to be better is what will get you through.   My wanting to be better is sometimes fueled by anger, sometimes by hope and sometimes by sheer will.  

 

You are very sick right now but you can heal.  Other people on this site who have experienced what you are going through have healed.

Thank you hibari , the thing is we read and try and find any scrap of evidence to try and support a quick fix to our well being and there is nothing , any other illness can be treated with many different drugs etc , but for us there is nothing , also there are so many conflicting things about what to try and not to try , alto asked me early if I had ever tried lamotrigine which I had to no benifit , she says she found it to be benificial , yet I have read many pages on it being no better than a placebo and gsk   new this , so when one person tells you it can help another says it can't , Monica from beyond meds tells you to avoid lamotrigine as it is no better than a placebo and I respect her and what she has done for those suffering, but saying that alto has also been instrumental in helping people , but found it helped , we become scared as to what is good or bad , I was talking to a man who quit venalaxafine 9 years ago and he still suffers now , and it makes me question how long do we hold for recovery , I mean he may have found something over them years that could of made his life a little more tolerable, maybe I am overthinking , I know I am scared 

[Hibari]

It is scary.  But, and it's hard to believe, things are changing.  Probably so incrementally that you can't feel it yet.  Your brain is probably working super hard to heal and remodel.

 

From others who have cold turkey it's a day by day grind but one that eventually shifts.  

 

I know when I am in a place of mental and physical pain, words can sound hollow but they are something to hold onto.

 

Keep doing what you are doing with the magnesium, L-Theanine and see if your body starts to respond.   I drink a lot of ginger ale for the nausea and headaches.  

 

 

[Altostrata]

Terry, do you have any lamotrigine tablets left?

 

Lamotrigine is a very tricky drug. Often a lower dose works better than a higher dose. It could be that you would feel some relief at 2.5mg where a higher dosage didn't do anything.

 

Monica was on high doses of several drugs. She blamed some of her withdrawal syndrome on lamotrigine, but those symptoms might have been caused by any of the drugs or the cumulative effect of coming off a combination of them.

 

Lamotrigine does require tapering to go off, but it is not a particularly malicious drug.

[Terry4949]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Terry, do you have any lamotrigine tablets left?

 

Lamotrigine is a very tricky drug. Often a lower dose works better than a higher dose. It could be that you would feel some relief at 2.5mg where a higher dosage didn't do anything.

 

Monica was on high doses of several drugs. She blamed some of her withdrawal syndrome on lamotrigine, but those symptoms might have been caused by any of the drugs or the cumulative effect of coming off a combination of them.

 

Lamotrigine does require tapering to go off, but it is not a particularly malicious drug.

Altostrata unfortunately I do not have any lamotrigine tablets , as when I was c/t all my tablets were handed in , I'm not sure if my phyciatrist would give me any now as I have had them once , my doctor wont as he says the phyciatrist deals with my medication , even though I am on none , I started a small dose of l-theanine last night so I am going to give that ago , to see if I find any benifits , also started sipping a very small amount of calms t see if that can help 

[Hibari]

Hi Terry, final thought on L-Theanine.   I have a capsule form and I often open the capsules and pour the powder under my tongue to get it into my system faster.  I read this in Julia Ross's Mood Cure book.  If you have a hard tablet, you could cut it in half and then crush it into powder.   From my experience, L-Theanine is very gentle in how it enters your system. 

[Terry4949]

I am so sorry , but I don't think I can really cope with this crippling depression any more , I am at home so unmotivated , staring into space the days are so long I just wish for night , I have had to give up my job and my life , it's not fair on all those around me , I think I am going to have to try another med to try and lift this awfull feeling from morning untill night , I just want to dig a hole and climb in it , I have tried everything in my power to get through this but it is just killing me , I know it's a crap shoot but I have to do something or I will just end up bed ridden and die , I have been out with my dogs today and managed to drag my self round only to come home and feel worse , the isolation is killing me , I have family around me but I sit in silence I think they have had enough to now 

[bhasski]

Terry,

Its okay if you try for meds. 

I have lived a whole year like that and still know the shell i am in. 

But my advice is to talk about the meds. And ask for meds that can be gentle even though that is rare. 

I know doctors dont listen and that too when we are  in despair, they have nothing to listen to.  They are ready to throw ssris and anti psychotics.

 

My personal experience is that symptoms get gentler and light to bear wit time. I am CTed guy .. I know my current state and past year same time. 

I still have very harsh symptoms .. but comparitively its less.

 

One thing,  you will get better .

 

 

 

 

[powerback]

4 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

I am so sorry , but I don't think I can really cope with this crippling depression any more , I am at home so unmotivated , staring into space the days are so long I just wish for night , I have had to give up my job and my life , it's not fair on all those around me , I think I am going to have to try another med to try and lift this awfull feeling from morning untill night , I just want to dig a hole and climb in it , I have tried everything in my power to get through this but it is just killing me , I know it's a crap shoot but I have to do something or I will just end up bed ridden and die , I have been out with my dogs today and managed to drag my self round only to come home and feel worse , the isolation is killing me , I have family around me but I sit in silence I think they have had enough to now 

sorry to hear you like this terry ,its such a dam nightmare to live .I feel for you .no judgement about meds from me  ,please be gentle and kind to yourself .dam depression is the worst .take great care .

PB

[Terry4949]

12 minutes ago, powerback said:

sorry to hear you like this terry ,its such a dam nightmare to live .I feel for you .no judgement about meds from me  ,please be gentle and kind to yourself .dam depression is the worst .take great care .

PB

Thankyou powerback for your kind words , I can't continue like this , from the moment I open my eyes to the moment I close them its relentless , I have lost everything , my job , my passions my family all that was so dear to me , I honestly only stay alive as I don't want to hurt my son and daughter and my dad it would break his heart , but it is breaking everyone's heart seeing me like this as well , I feel like I am not trying to get better for them , so much suffering I am fed up of feeling fed up , 

 

[RachelSusan]

Hi Terry,

Do whatever you need to do to stabilize yourself. If it's meds then so be it. Fingers crossed for quick relief for you. Moderators helped me with how much to reinstate.

RS

[powerback]

31 minutes ago, Terry4949 said:

Thankyou powerback for your kind words , I can't continue like this , from the moment I open my eyes to the moment I close them its relentless , I have lost everything , my job , my passions my family all that was so dear to me , I honestly only stay alive as I don't want to hurt my son and daughter and my dad it would break his heart , but it is breaking everyone's heart seeing me like this as well , I feel like I am not trying to get better for them , so much suffering I am fed up of feeling fed up , 

 

ye this isn't fair terry ,please believe depression just puts a temporary spell on your mind and the real you is in there .

be well and wish it to be soon for you .

total respect

PB

[Altostrata]

On 8/6/2017 at 2:06 AM, Terry4949 said:

Altostrata unfortunately I do not have any lamotrigine tablets , as when I was c/t all my tablets were handed in , I'm not sure if my phyciatrist would give me any now as I have had them once , my doctor wont as he says the phyciatrist deals with my medication , even though I am on none , I started a small dose of l-theanine last night so I am going to give that ago , to see if I find any benifits , also started sipping a very small amount of calms t see if that can help 

 

Usually physicians are only too happy if patients are willing to go on psychiatric drugs. Is there any possibility you could get a prescription for 5mg lamotrigine tablets and cut them in half to try 2.5mg per day?

 

If your sleep improved, your mood might also.