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Terry4949

Terry4949: Withdrawal help

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Terry4949

I found that the lyrica gave me a happy feeling for 2 days and then it all went back to normal , anxiety and depression , so I don't think it is having any benifits at all , if anything it is making things worse , I find anything supplement wise my body is sensitised , just seems to go on forever and you get tired of it , I will be glad to see the back of it

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Terry4949

My go wants me to try a small dose of lactimal to see if it helps me , he says he has been seeing me for the last 2 years and I have been suffering anxiety and depression for to long and withdrawing from my meds is taking its toll on me and that he is worried , he says that coming of my meds if that's what I want to do is ok , but I need something to help , I agree with him to a extent as I am suffering so much , the deliberating anxiety and shakes , nausea etc are killing me , each day for 3 years I have hope for a window , my gp has said unless I take something their is no point in me going to him for help other than get my meds , can't carry on like this ,

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scallywag

Terry - is your signature accurate with your current medications?

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Terry4949

Yes scallywag , I updated my signature the other day ,

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scallywag

Terry, I've just read the entire thread, starting with your first post on January 7, 2016.  One thing I noticed:  I found it easier to understand what you've written as the months progressed. Although depression, sleep, and anxiety still plague you, your writing and cognitive function have improved.

 

I have a hard time dealing with long lines of online text so I'm going to post my interpretation in a list format. Thanks for being patient with this likely redundant post.

 

You're currently taking:

Remeron (mirtazapine) 20 mg:

- started @ 30 mg in August 2015 for depression

- cut dose from 30 to 15  Jan. 3, 2016 

- updosed from 15 to 30mg in Jan 2016

- cut dose to 22.5 mg from 30 in March 2016

- switched to liquid from tablets March 29, 2016, became agitated and anxious

- returned to tablets in early April 2016, settled to previous difficult symptoms

- cut dose to 20 mg from 22.5 at start of May 2016

 

Lyrica (pregabalin) 200 mg:

- started @ 200 mg in August 2015 for anxiety,

- no changes since starting as of July 1, 2016

 

The depression and anxiety that prompted these prescriptions were likely withdrawal symptoms from fast-tapering

- Effexor (from 100mg  in 2 weeks) in 2015 after taking it since 2000 and

- Celexa/citalopram (from 30mg in 2 weeks) prescription started after Effexor and stopped after 5 months of use.

 

Did you have a look at the topic that leahy posted above about Lamictal, and the two topics linked in the first post of that topic?

 

Given your sensitivity to psych drugs over the last 16 months, I'd have a very "targeted" discussion with a doctor who wants to prescribe any new drug before taking it. I'd want to know:

  • what's his opinion on withdrawal syndrome from discontinuing antidepressant and other psych drugs?
  • what's his education about withdrawal syndrome from discontinuing antidepressant and other psych drugs?
  • approximately how many other patients has he treated with this drug for a situation like yours?
  • when he says "low dose," how does that dose compare with a typical "starting" or "maintenance" dose?
  • what is their plan to supervise you on this dose? (it should be at least 1 visit every 5 days until you're stable or have discontinued)
  • how long will it take to know if it's working for you, minimum and maximum timeframes?
  • if it makes your symptoms worse, what will he do?
  • if your symptoms stay the same, what will he do?
  • if you have to discontinue this drug, what is the discontinuation plan?
  • is he planning any vacations or time away from the office in the next 6-8 weeks?

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scallywag

I think you are right re being in Lyrica WD every day. The Half life is 5 to 6 hours and thus it makes sense.

 

Bruin, the twice-daily dosing is recommended for Lyrica and other drugs with short half-lives. Most drugs take time to absorb; Lyrica takes on average 1.5 hours.  If doses are 12 hours apart, one would have 25% of peak concentration at the time the next dose reached its peak concentration. It could be that Terry is metabolizing and excreting Lyrica faster than the reported average or median which applies to most people.

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Terry4949

Thanks scallywag for your time and effort , so should I take lyrica ie 3 x a day at smaller doses , the thing is with lyrica after I take it about 1 hour later I feel nausea , blurred vision , light headed , fatigued , so if I split it to 3 x a day I will have to go through it 3 times , which I don't really want to , at the moment the morning anxiety is so bad I don't think the lyrica is doing anything except stopping withdrawals , when you have found know relief in nearly 3 years it can be so hard , life is passing me by and all I am doing is suffering

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AliG

Terry .     At this point, when there are many more questions than answers, I would be vigilant in keeping notes daily - times/ doses/ effects etc. until a pattern is firmly established that can possibly be worked on . It does sound like your dosing is just prolonging the pain right now. Is that how it feels? Could you keep a very concise journal for the next week ? 

 

Rate symptoms daily to track patterns and progress

 

Ali

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Terry4949

I

Terry, I've just read the entire thread, starting with your first post on January 7, 2016.  One thing I noticed:  I found it easier to understand what you've written as the months progressed. Although depression, sleep, and anxiety still plague you, your writing and cognitive function have improved.
 
I have a hard time dealing with long lines of online text so I'm going to post my interpretation in a list format. Thanks for being patient with this likely redundant post.
 
You're currently taking:
Remeron (mirtazapine) 20 mg:
- started @ 30 mg in August 2015 for depression
- cut dose from 30 to 15  Jan. 3, 2016 
- updosed from 15 to 30mg in Jan 2016
- cut dose to 22.5 mg from 30 in March 2016
- switched to liquid from tablets March 29, 2016, became agitated and anxious
- returned to tablets in early April 2016, settled to previous difficult symptoms
- cut dose to 20 mg from 22.5 at start of May 2016
 
Lyrica (pregabalin) 200 mg:
- started @ 200 mg in August 2015 for anxiety,
- no changes since starting as of July 1, 2016
 
The depression and anxiety that prompted these prescriptions were likely withdrawal symptoms from fast-tapering
- Effexor (from 100mg  in 2 weeks) in 2015 after taking it since 2000 and
- Celexa/citalopram (from 30mg in 2 weeks) prescription started after Effexor and stopped after 5 months of use.
 
Did you have a look at the topic that leahy posted above about Lamictal, and the two topics linked in the first post of that topic?
 
Given your sensitivity to psych drugs over the last 16 months, I'd have a very "targeted" discussion with a doctor who wants to prescribe any new drug before taking it. I'd want to know:

  • what's his opinion on withdrawal syndrome from discontinuing antidepressant and other psych drugs?
  • what's his education about withdrawal syndrome from discontinuing antidepressant and other psych drugs?
  • approximately how many other patients has he treated with this drug for a situation like yours?
  • when he says "low dose," how does that dose compare with a typical "starting" or "maintenance" dose?
  • what is their plan to supervise you on this dose? (it should be at least 1 visit every 5 days until you're stable or have discontinued)
  • how long will it take to know if it's working for you, minimum and maximum timeframes?
  • if it makes your symptoms worse, what will he do?
  • if your symptoms stay the same, what will he do?
  • if you have to discontinue this drug, what is the discontinuation plan?
  • is he planning any vacations or time away from the office in the next 6-8 weeks?



My gp believes in withdrawel symptoms , that can arrive from sudden discontinuation , and he understands that for some people it can be harder for others , his knowledge is very little in the way of treating w/d and relys on my feed back , he would like me to take 25mg every other day for a week , then every day , he can not say as to the out come and believes that the only way you will know is by starting , if there is no improvement in 2 weeks he would discuss with me about continuing or withdrawing , he has said he has had patients that have tried 3 or 4 meds and have felt no better or worse and then given them another med and they have improved dramatically. 

 

He doesn't believe in the chemical theory and does not really fully understand how these meds work , but he has seen them work for people , I have explained that people in withdrawel are more sensitive to meds , and he accepts that but as a doctor he wants to try and make me better, the thing is you don't always see the same doctor so it can be hard to relay all your info in a short period of time .

 

I have read on here about people who have taken many drugs and have been suicidel , then taken another drug and found relief from another , I believe if you look at , fresh , post she was suicidel and took Pristiq and found relief within days , so I am all for getting of these horrible drugs but I also need to consider that after 3 years of deliberating anxiety and depression I may need to find something to help me level out .

 

I don't get the windows and waves pattern , the moment I wake my anxiety is so high it just awfull daily , by late afternoon I feel somewhat normal and then repeat the following anguish the next day , but also the family around me are suffering , my illness holds them back , their life suffers and they want me to get better, but what do you tell people who see you suffer on a daily basis that your aim is to get of these meds , they then think that you are not making a effort and that you will never get better, we know this is a long slow process .

 

If tomorrow they announced that they had created a pill that was so perfect that it would take away all this suffering and pain , a pill that has know side effects , a wonder pill , I wonder how many people would take it , even though we vow to never to put another a/d in our bodies again

Edited by AliG
added paragraph breaks

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Terry4949

Terry .     At this point, when there are many more questions than answers, I would be vigilant in keeping notes daily - times/ doses/ effects etc. until a pattern is firmly established that can possibly be worked on . It does sound like your dosing is just prolonging the pain right now. Is that how it feels? Could you keep a very concise journal for the next week ? 

 

Rate symptoms daily to track patterns and progress

 

Ali

hi Ali I have kept a spread sheet for a long time , and do not really see any patterns , I take my medication at exactly the same time every day , I wake at 5.00am every morning in a state of anxiety usually sweating , and then the morning is the same day after day , I use to mark my day and rate it at the end of the day and it would be usually be a 9 , then once in a blue moon I may have a 7 , I believe that the medication is keeping in this state, but I can't just stop taking it . since I have been on the lyrica my muscles and bones have ached so much and I have never had this with any other meds ever ,

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scallywag

Terry,
 
If you get digestive symptoms after taking Lyrica (pregabalin), I can understand that it's a difficult decision: choose between (a) nausea 1 more time per day or ( B) possibly reduced interdose withdrawal symptoms.  Unfortunately it's not an easy choice.  My thought in my comment to Bruin was just a "verbalizing" a possible explanation for why your symptoms increase between doses.  I hypothesized "out loud" unnecessarily and probably far too early in this discussion. 
 
With short-acting drugs like Lyrica, it can be really important to take the doses at the same time every day. 

 

How close are your "dose-times" to being consistent?

 

 
My intention with the following information is *not* to discourage you from working with your doctor on this. My intention is to make sure that you and your doctor have a fuller picture of what's involved in trying Lamictal to deal with antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.

 
Lamictal (lamotrigine) is another anti-convulsant medication. You might want to read about it at Drugs.com Lamictal Information page.

 

I am concerned that your doctor thinks that 25 mg one day and 0 mg the next is an effective way for you to take a drug that affects your CNS (central nervous system). The fact that your CNS is still destabilized (after withdrawal from Effexor and from the Remeron dramatic dose changes)  leaves me even more concerned about every other day dosing for you.
 
Your doctor is suggesting 25 mg Lamictal because that is the lowest dose that is manufactured. If you choose to go with your doctor's suggestion to trial Lamictal, it is likely that you would do better with a daily dose much less than 25 mg. You will need to make your own liquid at home to take the lower doses.

 

Should you find that Lamictal works for your situation and you stay on it for more than a few weeks, you will need to gradually taper your doses to safely discontinue.
 
It is still important to insist that you and your doctor be full, equal partners if you try this. Please consider the following questions carefully:

  1. Are you willing to communicate directly and completely about what's happening, even if your doc is reluctant or resistant?
  2. Are you willing to look beyond your doctor's feelings and desire to help and to carefully listen what your gut or intuition is telling you?
  3. Are you willing to keep detailed records of your symptoms?
  4. Can you rely on yourself to keep detailed records of your symptoms and to bring them to your doc appointments?
  5. Is your doctor willing to start you at a much lower dose, 2 mg?
  6. Will your doctor see you frequently to monitor your symptoms and adjust dosage? (You'll see from the quotes below that Lamictal (lamotrigine) requires frequent adjustments to get the right dose)
  7. Will he be around for the first 4-6 weeks that you're on the new drug? 

 

If the answer to any of these questions is "no," I would delay starting a trial of Lamictal until there 7 out of 7 "yes" answers.

 

Here is what Altostrata, SA's founder and best researcher, has discovered about Lamictal doses to reduce withdrawal symptoms:
 

Used to calm withdrawal symptoms, lamotrigine is very tricky.

  • Too much, you get bad symptoms.
  • Too little, it doesn't do anything.
  • The lowest effective dosage varies from individual to individual.
  • If you go up too high in dose, or titrate up too fast, you can get a dangerous allergic reaction, Stevens-Johnson syndrome.
  • If you don't taper off slowly enough, you can get terrible withdrawal symptoms.
  • Effective use is dependent on the skill of the doctor, and few doctors know how to use lamotrigine.
We cannot take any responsibility if you choose to try lamotrigine for withdrawal symptoms. Experiment at your own risk.

 

 
 

About Lamictal, here's the problem: Not many doctors know how to use Lamictal and recognize when to increase and when to decrease dosage, plus how it's affecting the withdrawal symptoms. They also don't understand the hypersensitivity issues and insist on doses that are far too high to accomplish what we want -- to support the nervous system in healing instead of inducing yet another drug-dominated state. Some people report bad reactions to doses of Lamictal that are too high.

For some people with a different variety of withdrawal syndrome, taking lamotrigine may not be the right approach.

Here are a few tips about using Lamictal that I learned from my doctor. I'm not an expert and I don't know how this would be applied to any particular person:

- Dosages are individual, need to be started at very low amounts, and slowly titrated up.

- He starts everyone out at 2mg or less. Because I was so hypersensitive, he started me on .5mg. He likes to give a dosage a try for 4 days to see how it works, get beyond initial wooziness, etc.

- The trick is to find exactly the right "sweet spot" for your nervous system. At one time, I started at .5mg, went up to 2.5mg, backed down again to 1mg, eventually settling at 1.07mg. In a second phase, I titrated up to 5.4mg. (I am currently tapering off.) Now, someone else's optimal dose may be 24.3mg or 38.2mg or 10.1mg.

- For someone with withdrawal insomnia, the "sweet spot" is a dosage at which sleep is increasing towards normal and side effects are negligible.

- Lamictal does increase GABA somewhat while decreasing glutamatergic transmission. However, the GABA system needs glutamate to make GABA so too much Lamictal will have a paradoxical effect -- you don't want to go too high.

- Signs that you're taking too much Lamictal: Queasiness or headache (or both), sleeplessness, agitation.

- Initial side effects can be wooziness, grogginess, sleepiness, lack of energy.

- To firmly establish the newly revived healthy brain patterns, expect to stay on the Lamictal for about a year. He has had patients who went off the medication and were fine, they didn't need to take it anymore.

- In severe withdrawal insomnia, deep sleep is the first to go and the last to come back. It's important because human growth hormone is secreted in deep sleep and it is physically and mentally restorative. When deep sleep returns, emotional numbing will lift.

,

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Terry4949

Hi scallywag , the answers to some of your questions are , no I don't think my doctor will see me every 5 to 6 days if I take this med , I don't think that if I took a record of my progress to him he would make any sense of it , and he would not know how to adjust it to suit my needs , I can communicate without my doctor about how I feel ,but I don't think that they will understand as they have no knowledge of w/d symptoms when it comes to severe withdrawals , I believe all practise doctors believe that is just anxiety and depression returning and you need another med , but where do you find a doctor who is aware of this w/d , I haven't found one . So what do we do , to have some support is better than none , and if you keep refusing there help and meds they think you don't want to get better , my doctor says he is aware that stoping is a problem , but I don't think he fully understands how bad it can be ,

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leahy

My doctor is not aware that stopping is a problem so you're way ahead of me.

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Terry4949

Over the last 4 weeks I have been waking earlier and earlier , I used to sleep until 5.00 am wake with a start , but then it went to 4am then 3 am now 2.00 am but waking is very precise , I wake feeling very nervous , tremors and sweating which then turn to chills then this turns in to anxiety on getting out of bed , also I have notice I am so tired more now than before , I have made no changes to my meds , I used to sleep well normally go to bed about 9pm and wake at 5am so I was getting 8 hours now it has changed , as I seem to be getting less as the weeks go by I am starting to worry what will happen when I loose more sleep , normally my mornings are bad and I find relief in the late afternoon , but my days of suffering are getting worse because they are starting earlier , is there a reason for this are my meds loosing their effect even more now that we are on smaller doses , or is their another underlying score , something I'm missing , I always take my meds at exactly the same time every day 7.30pm , if I try and take them later at night I find I can not wake up during the next day , remeron has a rather sedating effect , any help would be great ,

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scallywag

Terry, With short-acting drugs like Lyrica, it can be really important to take the doses at the same time every day. 

 

How close are your "dose-times" to being consistent?

 

(you may have missed this in my previous long post)

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Terry4949

I take them exactly the same time every day 7.30 pm and 7.00 am with out fail

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scallywag

Terry, Thank you for working patiently with me to answer the questions I posted.

 

I've asked other moderators to have a look at what's been going on for you and at your doctor's suggestion of Lamictal,

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Terry4949

Thank you scallywag , I just feel like I'm not turning a corner , same every day symptoms at the same time , after 18 months since my last Effexor I thought I should be finding some relief , I don't know what is worse the lyrica or the remeron , but to get her they make me feel awful , I have had no luck with supplements either , I have seen other people on here improve over the many months I have been a member but I still seem to be standing still ,

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Petunia

If tomorrow they announced that they had created a pill that was so perfect that it would take away all this suffering and pain , a pill that has know side effects , a wonder pill , I wonder how many people would take it , even though we vow to never to put another a/d in our bodies again

 

Hey Terry, if such a pill existed, I would probably consider it. I've also been suffering, trying to recover from withdrawal after a too fast taper for several years now and wish I could do something to speed up the process.

 

But no such pill exists, there is no cure for a nervous system which has become dysfunctional due to psychiatric drug withdrawal... only time. A healthy diet, gentle exercise if possible and lowering stress can help to support recovery, but so far, we don't know of anything else. Stability is key, that means not making changes, especially not big ones.

 

Once the nervous system becomes sensitized by withdrawal, it can take a long time for it to recover, I know, I'm going through it myself. From what we see here, for most people, throwing more drugs at it, changing doses and adding lots of supplements usually makes symptoms worse and delays recovery.

 

... after 18 months since my last Effexor I thought I should be finding some relief , I don't know what is worse the lyrica or the remeron , but to get her they make me feel awful , I have had no luck with supplements either , I have seen other people on here improve over the many months I have been a member but I still seem to be standing still ,

Yes, people recover, but rarely by adding new drugs and continually adjusting doses. Unless you are having an adverse reaction or an interaction, I suggest you stick with what you are taking now and don't make any more changes. Once you become stable, you can begin a slow, safe taper, one drug at a time.

 

Here are some links which explain more:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

It can take a while before you start getting windows. I was drug free for over a year before I got my first real window, and then it only lasted a few hours, so you need to be patient. I know its difficult. I wish there was an easy solution.

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Bruin

Hi Terry....I am sorry that you are still suffering just as badly. 

There is a close similarity in our drug histories. The Effexor rapid taper hit me  hard......

It has been 16 months  since my last dose..I have made improvements but slowly

 

For most of the time I had no knowledge regarding WD . I just knew that I was very ill.

I am now 4 months from my last Lyrica and feel better for being off it though the WD was tough.

For me Lyrica was causing huge spikes in my anxiety and if I missed a dose it was hell.

However, as you have said, you are not sure if it is the Lyrica , the Remeron or the combination.

 

As Petunia said you need to get stable before reducing and that seems elusive at present.

 

 

You will get there Terry but I understand that it is sheer hell at the moment. All the very Best.

 

Bruin.

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scallywag

Thank you scallywag , I just feel like I'm not turning a corner , same every day symptoms at the same time , after 18 months since my last Effexor I thought I should be finding some relief , I don't know what is worse the lyrica or the remeron , but to get her they make me feel awful , I have had no luck with supplements either , I have seen other people on here improve over the many months I have been a member but I still seem to be standing still ,

 

Terry, comparing your symptoms and progress with other peoples is a bit of a trap. All it will tell is that you've landed on the slower and "more suffering" end of the bell curve.  We, including the medical profession, don't know enough about how the CNS recovers after exposure to these drugs. There probably are many as-yet-undiscovered factors that drive the differences in withdrawal symptoms between people.

 

It's got to be frustrating and discouraging for you to have almost-constant intense symptoms. The desire to find something, anything to stop the symptoms is strong. Any suggestion -- this pharmaceutical, that supplement, a hot tip to stand on your head in a field of peas and chew tree bark -- seems that to offer a way out.

 

You've made a lot of drug changes in the last 18 months: on, fast-taper off, on and off, etc. Maybe other people's CNS can handle that. Yours didn't. I'm certain that mine couldn't. It may be that the best way now is to go through this with the symptoms as they are and let things stabilize, then and only then make small dose cuts very slowly.

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Altostrata

Terry, your e-mail is bouncing. Please click on your name in the upper right corner, go to your Settings, and enter a working e-mail address. Thank you.

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Altostrata

I was just wondering if anyone else suffers with mood changes at the same time everyday , I can wake and go through most mornings with anxiety and depression to various degrees , some mornings mild some mornings severe , some days are manageable , but everyday about 1pm untill roughly 4pm my mood just drops , the feeling of doom and gloom descends upon me and the overwhelming sense of helplessness , the feeling you will never get better , utter despair .

 

I can actually feel it coming on my body and mind just seem to drain away and I don't know how to stop or what causes it to happen at the same time every day , it doesn't happen at any other time of day the sudden draining feeling , so why between them hours , has anyone else had this experience

 

This sounds like the level of mirtazapine or pregabalin you took the prior evening (7:00 p.m.?) has decreased in your body.

 

*post moved from standalone topic in Tapering forum

 

I have come to the conclusion that my anxiety levels are going through the roof due to withdrawals from lyrica even though I haven't drop my dose , II take 100mg at 7.00pm and 100mg at 7.00am and I think my body has got use to it , I believe it looses its effectiveness whilst I am sleeping and so I wake sweating and the feeling of severe nervousness , then I take my morning dose and then it eases slightly for 5 to 6 hours then the symptoms return , I also feel dizzy and have a headache in the morning after taking my dose , I think that this is why my healing is not happening and that I am in a vicious cycle ,

 

I am suffering daily withdrawel symptoms , I also take mirtazapine which I am reducing very slowly so I don't want to reduce two meds at once , any suggestions on what can be done to help relieve the lyrica problem , I have tried magnesium but it gives me stomache cramps , I have been told by my doctor that remeron and lyrica are not very good to take together as they can increase anxiety ,

 

This may be so. One way to test is to split the morning dose of Lyrica, take half at the usual 7 a.m. and half perhaps at 9 a.m.

 

As adverse effects tend to decrease with decreased dosage, the discomfort and dazedness you feel after taking 100mg pregabalin should decrease. With that benefit, possibly the anxiolytic effect of pregabalin will be more spread out.

 

It will take at least 4 days for this change to fully take effect. Keep daily notes on paper about symptom pattern, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

If this is a beneficial change, I would gradually move the 50mg pregabalin doses to every 6 hours.

 

You are physiologically dependent on pregabalin, be careful about moving the doses around or decreasing at this time. Once the doses are evened out, we can talk about reducing pregabalin or mirtazapine.

 

 

Terry, I've just read the entire thread, starting with your first post on January 7, 2016.  One thing I noticed:  I found it easier to understand what you've written as the months progressed. Although depression, sleep, and anxiety still plague you, your writing and cognitive function have improved.

 

I have a hard time dealing with long lines of online text so I'm going to post my interpretation in a list format. Thanks for being patient with this likely redundant post.

 

You're currently taking:

Remeron (mirtazapine) 20 mg:

- started @ 30 mg in August 2015 for depression

- cut dose from 30 to 15  Jan. 3, 2016 

- updosed from 15 to 30mg in Jan 2016

- cut dose to 22.5 mg from 30 in March 2016

- switched to liquid from tablets March 29, 2016, became agitated and anxious

- returned to tablets in early April 2016, settled to previous difficult symptoms

- cut dose to 20 mg from 22.5 at start of May 2016

 

Lyrica (pregabalin) 200 mg:

- started @ 200 mg in August 2015 for anxiety,

- no changes since starting as of July 1, 2016

 

The depression and anxiety that prompted these prescriptions were likely withdrawal symptoms from fast-tapering

- Effexor (from 100mg  in 2 weeks) in 2015 after taking it since 2000 and

- Celexa/citalopram (from 30mg in 2 weeks) prescription started after Effexor and stopped after 5 months of use.

 

Did you have a look at the topic that leahy posted above about Lamictal, and the two topics linked in the first post of that topic?

 

Given your sensitivity to psych drugs over the last 16 months, I'd have a very "targeted" discussion with a doctor who wants to prescribe any new drug before taking it. I'd want to know:

  • what's his opinion on withdrawal syndrome from discontinuing antidepressant and other psych drugs?
  • what's his education about withdrawal syndrome from discontinuing antidepressant and other psych drugs?
  • approximately how many other patients has he treated with this drug for a situation like yours?
  • when he says "low dose," how does that dose compare with a typical "starting" or "maintenance" dose?
  • what is their plan to supervise you on this dose? (it should be at least 1 visit every 5 days until you're stable or have discontinued)
  • how long will it take to know if it's working for you, minimum and maximum timeframes?
  • if it makes your symptoms worse, what will he do?
  • if your symptoms stay the same, what will he do?
  • if you have to discontinue this drug, what is the discontinuation plan?
  • is he planning any vacations or time away from the office in the next 6-8 weeks?

 

 

Thanks for this excellent summary, SW. I'm not sure that Terry's fairly sympathetic doctors will have any good answers to those questions. However, since they are sympathetic, they may be willing to go along with any reasonable plan Terry proposes.

 

Terry, a few posts back, you mentioned you were taking 20mg mirtazapine, did yoiu decrease from 22.5mg, and when? Are you taking a combination of liquid and tablet?

 

Could you please give us your symptom pattern in this form:

 

7:00 20mg mirtazapine, 100mg pregabalin

8:00 [symptom]

9:00 [symptom]

etc.

 

Also, do you drink caffeine at any set time each day, or at all?

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nz11

 

Given your sensitivity to psych drugs over the last 16 months, I'd have a very "targeted" discussion with a doctor who wants to prescribe any new drug before taking it. I'd want to know:

..............(...)...is he planning any vacations or time away from the office in the next 6-8 weeks?

 

Excellent  question.

How about this one

Are you receiving or have ever received  any pharma kickbacks of any material form including financial in nature.

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Terry4949

The last 3 days I have woken with anxiety and panic , then felt a slight calming only to find by mid morning I am having extreme anxiety and the feeling of intense suicidel thoughts that are so strong I could do something really stupid wilst in this state the after 3 or 4 hours they just disappear and I go into a exhausted state but seem so much calmer I fact it scares me to think that I had thought about harming myself , is this still withdrawel issue,s or is this depression its self , I have made no further cuts to my meds

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scallywag

Terry,

 

I've moved your question to your introduction thread.

 

Remember, there's only *one* introduction topic per member. It's much easier for you and for others to see what's happening with your withdrawal and taper if all your updates and questions are in the same place.

 

Your symptoms are your central nervous system making adjustments to the changes in your medication dosages over the last 18 months.  Suicidal thoughts are scary. They like other thoughts come and go.  I'm glad yours disappeared within several hours.

 

 

Some ideas to find this topic in the Surviving Antidepressants forum:

  1. Setting this web page as a bookmark or favourite in your browser will help you navigate back to it.
     
  2. Do a google search on your username "Terry4949" and the word "introduction".
     
  3. Go to the introductions page and then enter your username in the search box in the top right corner, then click on the magnifying glass icon.
     
  4. You can probably find your introduction topic quickly if you start typing your username, Terry4949, in the address bar at the top of the window, where right now it has written

    "survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11013-terry4949-withdrawal-help/page-5"

    I use this method (typing scallywag) to get to my introduction topic.

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JanCarol

Hey Terry - you may not be able to see it, but it is clear that you are improving, even if it is at a snail's pace.

 

I saw an anonymous quote:

Just because you aren't making progress as fast as you think you should, does not mean you aren't making progress.  Keep going.

 

I believe you are having tiny windows in and amongst your waves.  Pay attention to the windows, they are showing you the path out of this.

 

Follow your pleasure.  What makes you feel better.  Is it watching clouds?  Watching Happy Days?  Listening to music?  Wiggling your toes in grass? 

 

Each 30 seconds of pleasure that you find, in that colour in the quilt, or the softness of a pet's fur - each 30 seconds that you engage with your senses - is 30 seconds that you forgot about suffering.

 

The suffering didn't stop - it was still there - it's just that you were able to forget about it.

 

I'm not big on meditating in withdrawal, I've found that unless you have an established practice, it's difficult to start meditating when you are in distress.  But there are things you can do.

 

Does this help you feel better for 7 minutes?

 

Does this help you feel better for - however long you do it?  (it is an excellent natural anti-anxiety pose):

 

Maybe it's not these things that help you - maybe it's digging in the garden, or dancing to music - but something will show you the way, the way to the windows.  

 

Next time you think:  hey - I feel okay - pay attention.  What are you doing?  

 

Do more of that.  It does get better.

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Terry4949

For the last 3 to 4 months I have been sweating badly and I thought that it must be the medication now I'm not so sure , my body temperature goes through the roof and sweat will pour of me for about 15 to 20 minutes then my temperature drops back to normal leaving me with the feeling of exhaustion this will happen about 20 times during the day and all through the night , I am very anxious in the morning but I have noticed this will happen when I'm not anxious , also I am so thirsty all the time I drink 3 litres of water a day and some days I will not go to the toilet even once , my wife says at night she can wake because she can feel the heat coming from my body , I am not overweight , is this withdrawel or something else , I don't want to go to the doctors if they are just going to tell me it's anxiety and depression , has anyone else experience this

Edited by scallywag
post moved from new topic in Symptoms forum

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Terry4949

I am currently reducing my lyrica and have gone on to water tiration, I have split the dose in to 3 equal amounts , I was on 1 evening 1 morning , but as it has a short half life only 6 hours I thought that I might alleviate some of the side effects that creep in around midday, I have noticed that now I am down to 100mg of lyrica dropping even 1mg causes me so much distress , the anxiety and sweating trembling nervous stomach and suicidel tendencies are so bad , how do we get past this stage I find its worse dropping than any a/d . how do you get down to zero when your body won't let you drop so little , I now have to wait for my body to settle down befor I try again , but what happens when it does the same again , it could take years to get of , I need to get of lyrica because it's when I take the dam stuff all my symptoms kick in like made , I was told it was a safe drug no problems coming of it

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Terry4949

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

I am 3 years into this withdrawel nightmare , and I feel suicidel more and more , is it my mind just giving me up as I see no turning point I feel so desperate and alone , im to frightened to know what to anymore

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brassmonkey

Hi Terry-- suicidal ideation is one of the more upsetting symptoms we have to contend with and is very common in WD.  The trick is to observe your thoughts and make sure that they remain just thoughts.  The problem comes when they start to change into actions, researching methods, acquiring supplies, making goodbyes and the like.  Those are the signals that you need to get fact to face help.

 

Are you just having thoughts, or are you seriously planning to harm yourself? 

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Terry4949

Hi Terry-- suicidal ideation is one of the more upsetting symptoms we have to contend with and is very common in WD.  The trick is to observe your thoughts and make sure that they remain just thoughts.  The problem comes when they start to change into actions, researching methods, acquiring supplies, making goodbyes and the like.  Those are the signals that you need to get fact to face help.

 

Are you just having thoughts, or are you seriously planning to harm yourself?

 

Hi Terry-- suicidal ideation is one of the more upsetting symptoms we have to contend with and is very common in WD.  The trick is to observe your thoughts and make sure that they remain just thoughts.  The problem comes when they start to change into actions, researching methods, acquiring supplies, making goodbyes and the like.  Those are the signals that you need to get fact to face help.

 

Are you just having thoughts, or are you seriously planning to harm yourself?

 

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Terry4949

sorry brassmonkey about the post above , I have been really struggling for a while now with suicidel idealations , I have been having lots of thoughts about writing letters to my loved ones trying to explain why I felt the need to take my own life hoping that if I do it will make them understand the suffering that I am going through , I find when I am having these thoughts I get very upset and afraid that I am going to do some thing which then turns to panic , I really don't want to die but when these thoughts come in to my head I feel it's the only option for me in life , sick of suffering

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Martina23

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Terry, this suicidal ideation can come solely from meds. By me the depression went away three weeks after going off the meds. There are a lot of people where changes start first after stopping the meds. Therefore please dont make any suicide before you are off the meds and can see how your brain chemistry really is. If it is really that bad, then maybe you can taper quicker, or what I did, I took one day in a week, when I did not take any drug (it was such a drug holiday day), the purpose was to find out what is the side effect of the drug and what is the withdrawal, if for example your suicidal depression is a side effect of the drug, I could not find it other only that I did not take one day the drug and next day I took it already. It was not dangerous as it takes 4 days until the body registers changes in drug dosing and it saved me as I had one terrible symptom and like that I could find that it is totally side effect of the drug and not my mental problem.

Edited by scallywag
indicate move

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scallywag

Terry, pretty much the only tool and remedy we have is time. It's hard when our CNS (central nervous system) response thwarts our desire to be off the drugs, but all we can do is give our bodies time to adjust to the change.

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