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Terry4949

Terry4949: Withdrawal help

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Martina23

Terry, this suicidal ideation can really be caused by Lyrica. Lyrica in smaller doses reacts adversely, the lower I went, I felt more depressed and anxious. But it was not my depression as when I came off the depression went totally away how the body got rid of the drug. You have to tell yourself that with injesting the drug your brain chemistry is other than it would be without drug, but when you will be off the drugs your brain chemistry will come back and you will be ok.

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Terry4949

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

I understand martina23 I keep telling my self that it is the medication , but the suicidel thoughts just overwhelm me , but then again is it the medication , I am currently reducing lyrica it could be that but then again it my not be , I just know I keep going over in my head what I am going to write in my letters to my love ones and it's frightening

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Martina23

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Maybe by you it is kind of intrusive thought this suicidal ideation, that you are afraid of death and therefore keep imagining how you write the letters to your loved ones and this scares you, cant it be?

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Terry4949

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

If think you maybe right to a large extent martina23 , but the thoughts are so frightening I am panicking in case I act on it , I don't want to go to a doctor as they will just throw more pills at me , I am so fed up of feeling ill it seems the best way out , but frightens me when I think about it , also I comes in waves I can be feeling at ease 1 minute and then suicidel thoughts the next and I am overwhelmed by fear and emotions , I just want to roll in a ball and disappear I just hate being like this , I hope this makes sence

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scallywag

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Terry -- can you make a plan about what you do when you have those thoughts?  Include things like people you can call including an anonymous distress or crisis line, music that soothes you, clothes that are comfortable, reading material that reminds you that you deserve good things in life, etc.

 

Then when the thoughts occur, get the list and start doing those things.

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Terry4949

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

scallywag, thank you for your reply to be honest I am so tired all the time mentally and physically , most the people I call don't know what to say or do , many of my friends are now so distant as they feel hopeless as what to say , my wife I think has lost the will with me now , she has seen the suffering that I go through and she just does not know what to do , not only has this affected my life but her life has been affected , it must be so hard for her as she still has a life and it is on hold , if I listen to music it makes me so sad as a lot of the music reminds me of how I used to be and I know I will never be that person again , I do go outside and walk with my dogs and try and put my self out with nature but I still feel ill al the time so it overshadows it so I don't get any real enjoyment , I think the loneliness is the hardest part with this illness

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Terry4949

I have been to see my phyciatrist to day to explain that my depression and anxiety are so bad and I feel so low that the last 3 days I have been feeling suicidel , I explained that I have been like this for so long now my body and mind have just given up , not just mentally but the physical side effects on a daily basis have just taken its toll , I was actually in tears in front of him and said that I feel so desperate and alone and that the suffering was unbearable ,

 

he ask me if I had taken the lactimal he had prescribe me and I said no , he then began shouting at me that he can't treat me if I won't take medication , I have tried to explained that no medication is helping me and he has told me he will no longer treat me and they was no point in carrying on the appointment unless I take the drugs , so it ended

 

I don't know what to do now , if I go back to the doctor they will agree with the phyciatrist and say unless you take meds you will only get worse and there is no point in them referring me , I can't seem to find any help or anyone who will listen to me , things are going from bad to worse , I have held my reductions on meds but there has never been a stabilisation of any degree so I just continue slowly , but the withdrawals and daily symptoms are unbearable , but I can not carry on without some sort of help

Edited by scallywag
insert paragraph breaks

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Martina23

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Terry, do you have someone / some friends that support you in this difficult moment? I think you should have someone to speak with in your neighbourhood.
I also have never stabilized during my tapering, only first when I was off the drugs. I know, that the mods would have other opinion like me, but I would try really one drug free day, so that you find out if your torment is not side effect of the drugs which you take. I think you really need at least one day to feel good, so that you breathe some fresh air. Because if you dont try it and would think that there is something not in order with you, you may start to take some new medication and never find out if it werent only side effects of the current drugs all you are feeling.
I really believe on body and mostly it functions right and the only what does not function right is the presence of drugs.

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Terry4949

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Thanks martina23 I have tried to go without the lyrica for 1 day it was horrendous but not the both , I am in such a bad place at the moment that I am to scared to go without both , but I know what you are saying , the trouble with friends I have told them how I have been feeling before and they disappear as they don't know what to say or do , and they tend to think that in a couple of days you will be normal , unless you have been through it you can't understand ,

 

I just feel I am going nowhere ,I have siolder on for apps 3 years now in hope of getting better , even now trying to get of meds is not guaranteed to make me better , I may still suffer for many years and after so long without a rest bite it becomes overwhelming , I find that I keep saying to myself it does get better has become tiring , feel very low sorry

Edited by scallywag
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Bruin

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Hi Terry.......I am so sorry that you are continuing to suffer so badly.  It sounds like absolute hell and it is true that people cannot understand unless 

they have been through it themselves. I was looking at your current drugs.....have you reduced Lyrica to 100 mg ? Did you taper slowly from 200 mg ? 

My experience with Lyrica was horrible.....it increased my anxiety and depression to an almost unbearable level. 

As you know I also took Effexor for a long time and tapered too fast. I stopped in March of last year and know I am still recovering from that.

It appears from your signature that you have continued to taper quite quickly from Lyrica and Remeron while feeling terrible. 

Perhaps it might be better to go  more slowly. ?......I do know how it feels to be so desperate and am cheering you on.

However much it does not feel like it everything does pass eventually. All the Very Best.

 

Bruin

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DrugfreeProf

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Terry I know the iurge to harm yourself feels real and compelling, but it is the drug talking. All of this terrible suffering is the drugs or WD from the drugs pretty much the same thing). My daughter took her life 9 years ago and it was again, these drugs! Permanent solution to temporary problem-- don't do it. Don't go there! Redirect your thoughts, think of love, joy, gratitude, healing. You are getting better as we speak, even if you don't realize it. You are important, uniquely important in the grand scheme of things.

Edited by ChessieCat
Corrected period of time

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Terry4949

As you can see by my history I am taking lyrica ,

 

with in 30 minutes of taking my dose I become very hot soaked in sweat and feel like I have no energy , then when I try and stand or move I feel like I am going to pass out , disoriented, and s week this last for about 2 hours then gets easier , then I take my next dose and it does exactly the same , this has to be the effect of the lyrica getting in to my blood stream ,

 

do I need to get of this at a faster taper as I think it is clearly causing me major issues

Edited by scallywag
moved from Tapering forum, inserted paragraph breaks

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peng

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Terry said, 

"..a lot of the music reminds me of how I used to be and I know I will never be that person again..."

 

I can relate to thinking exactly that way when I had become ill nearly 40 years ago, Terry.

Do not worry about that - you will either get better or you will live to accept it.  I managed to work full-time, raise family, etc, with this illness 1977-2001, inclusive and part time afterwards until today.  Joy will come back into your life somehow.  

Also, today, compared with 1977, there is far more balanced science on the way to help us IMO.

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Martina23

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Terry, I know it is hard but try to imagine. Did you have in your life any illness which took forever? I am sure, you did not. Every illness, such as influenza or broken leg pains for some time and then the pain is gone. The same will be with withdrawal. But I would take the healing time to count from the moment when you get off the drugs and it does not have to take so long, by me the depression went away three weeks after jump off date.

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scallywag

Terry: When did you start having the symptoms you describe that occur after your Lyrica doses? (the sweating, weakness, feeling like you're going to pass out after standing up)

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Terry4949

it started about 6 months ago and it just seems to have gotten worse , I have had my blood pressure taken and it all seems fine , like I say I take lyrica 3 times a day and notice this effect , makes you feel really ill like , just as if your about to faint

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Terry4949

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

it's been 3 days now of overwhelming feelings of suicide , the feeling of not wanting to go on anymore I have been sobbing my eyes out and feeling so depressed I'm afraid to go to the mental health team as they will want to through meds at me , I am not sure how much longer I can tolerate this , my body feels like I am withdrawing from heroin ,not that I have ever taken it , I do feel for my own safety , I can't understand it has been 20 months since I had my Effexor cut and withdrawel taken hold , and I have had waves of deep depression but nothing on this scale , I feel so hopeless , why is my wave so deep

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Martina23

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

Terry, and before taking meds did you also have some anxiety or depression? What did you get the first meds for?

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Martina23

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

I still really think that this deep depression is a withdrawal from lyrica, as I had also such when I jumped from 100 mg to 0 but it resolved with the time. But it also resolved first when I was on 0, so within one month.
I really think you have to find someone locally with whom you can freely talk, the best some friend or maybe some therapist who is against drugs and who is not afraid if you mention suicide

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scallywag

**moved from suicidal ideation thread

 

 

Terry, Please call your local distress support line:

 

Here's one that assists people throughout the UK:

Samaritans - Confidential support for people experiencing feelings of distress or despair.

 

Phone: 116 123 (free 24-hour helpline)

 

Website: www.samaritans.org.uk

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Bruin

Terry......I called The Samaritans over my experience with Lyrica...I have just looked up my diary for the period and 

it was an extremely dark time.....I could not imagine living but  made it through and am now 5 Months off Lyrica and 17 Months off Effexor. 

 

I am not in full health but the sheer desperation of that time has passed as it will for you. It helped to call the Samaritans and if I felt desperate I kept calling back. It is vital to keep talking ..it is a life saver. I would agree with Martina that the deep depression is withdrawal is from Lyrica though I felt equally ill on it. 

 

For me it was such a horrid drug. There is a support group on FB where there are some very good people . I have heard WD from Lyrica being described as worse than WD from Heroin and Valium combined. Of course this is not so for everyone but it can be beastly and cause deep despair . The good news is that you will get through it ....what you are going through is the depths of it.. 

 

Our drug histories are similar and I have a sense of where you are at. Like Martina my depression started to lift at about 

3 weeks off. Please keep posting and call Samaritans......keep communicating and hang in there.

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Asjf

I've been tapering off of Lyrica for over a year. I agree that the taper is far worse than SSRI's, which I was on for 22years (and only on Lyrica for 3 months when I decided to start tapering). I was originally up to 450mg of Lyrica and now down to 60mg/day.

In the last few months it has gotten much easier (which I am very grateful for). There's no real way of pinpointing why. But I have my own theory. Earlier in the weening process I would go 4 weeks on a dosage and then drop 10% no matter how I was feeling. Now I wait until I feel stable on a dosage, and then wait a little longer, and THEN drop the dosage. I feel as though my CNS is far less likely to react violently to a new lower dosage when it has gotten used to feeling stable for awhile. I feel as though my CNS is resistant to change, which has and upside--if it is stable for awhile then it is also resistant to becoming unstable--so the new lower dosage doesn't have as pronounced and effect.

For what it's worth, I've also found the supplement NAC (n-acetyl cysteine) to be VERY helpful through the weening process as well as 600-800mg/day of magnesium BISGLYCINATE (this is the only version that has had a strong and noticeably positive effect) and omega 3-6-9 fish oil tablets.

Good luck. I feel for you. There was a period of months where I wanted to die every single day (and I also wanted the ignorant and lying doctors who also told me that Lyrica was essentially 'harmless' to die too). That has all passed now and I'm starting to feel strong and happy again, and I have a deeper sense of peace and gratitude now, that I never new before going through all of this.

If you can just listen to your body and be patient I think you can make it too.

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Terry4949

thanks for your reply asjf , I have changed my dose from twice a day , to 3 times a day and gone over to water tiration , and I have crashed big style , I thought that evening out the dosage during the day would prevent withdrawel due to its half life 6 hours , but I think my body had got used to a dose in the evening and in the morning that dividing the dose into smaller amounts my body still craves the same amount of drug at the same time of day , ie 45mg in the morning has now become 30mg and then 30mg at lunch time 30mg evening , or it could be that I have gone to water tiration and my body does not absorb it as well ,all I know is it has caused serious problems

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Martina23

This is because of water titration till the body adapts. Because if you take the pill, the coating prevents that it is absorbed sooner as when it comes to the gut. And when you titrate, there is no coating there, and it is absorbed sooner, which brings more side effects, and sensitivity. But I think the body will adapt on this, it is just a change and the sensitive people may have problems with it.

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Asjf

I have never used water titration. My fear is that with such a sensitivity to such specific dosing that there is too much of a margin of error -- how do I know I'm getting the exact amount of medication when some of the particles may not mix evenly, or get stuck on the side of the container etc.

I use a compounding pharmacy to make exact doses in capsules. The compounding fee I pay is $9 per prescription. Well worth it in my opinion.

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Terry4949

I think I have seriously destabilise my self and I don't know what to do , I changed to water tiration of my dose of lyrica , I was taking 50mg in the morning and then 50mg at night , I felt that I was always in a constant state of withdrawel as it has a short half life 6 hours , so I wanted to make a 10% drop and decided to go over to water tiration and split the dose into 3 times a day , so I take 30mg at 8.00pm 30mg at 8.00 am and the 3rd dose at 2.00 pm equal 90mg total , since I have switched over I have crashed so bad , despair ,hopelessness as you may have seen a few of my last post on other forums I have just had 5 days of feeling so suicidel , the depression is awfull horrible anxiety plus physical symptoms , I have been in withdrawel from the meds for 3 years now with no windows , I feel I am constantly in withdrawel but this change to water tiration has made things 10 times worse , I wanted to get of the lyrica before I start the mirtazapine but I feel I am going to be suffering like this for years , all this time I have suffered and I feel I have gone back to the beginning ,

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Martina23

Terry, I had also temporary worsening of symptoms when I changed to water titration. As it is absorbed in a bit other way when you do water titration. I had almost delusions at that time. But it settled within one month. Please try to ignore the symptoms. Give it one month. You are already very good. You are already on 90 mg and before you took 200. That is huge. Dont do anything stupid and make yourself today a nice day as a praise that you are already almost reaching the end of your taper. Now you have to persevere and not throw all the accomplishment away.

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AliG

Terry . How long is it since you made that change?   As you are in a fragile state it is best to keep everything the same and not make any sudden changes. Holding is good and the best thing that you can do right now. I would go back to what you were on.

 

Also , if you can look into getting that " one on one " face to face help that will hopefully get you through this rough patch. These drugs do crazy things to our brains and you have to do everything you can to stay safe, as you are not really " you " right now and perhaps not thinking straight. I know this because I have been there. Everything changes as you get further away from the drugs.

 

Your main job right now is to keep yourself alive. Do everything you can to ensure this.

Get help .Talk to a Doctor perhaps, or a friend or partner . Call the lines that have been suggested. We can only do so much.

Your thinking will change later on . It's the drugs & W/D.  They can make you crazy. You just have to get through any way that you can. You have been given many links. Please make use of them. 

 

This really is a temporary " blip". Be strong, hang in there and you will be fine.

Ali

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Bruin

Hi Terry.......very sound advice from Ali..........I know from my experience of Lyrica that it needs to be treated very carefully.

You have come down from 200 mg to 90 mg ....how fast did you do it ?  My guess is that you may have gone too fast.

I do relate closely to your journey because the timescale is similar and the drugs almost identical.....Lyrica WD on top of protracted WD from Effexor 

was the most brutal part for me and I think that is what is going on for you.  Ali is so right the only important thing right now is to stay alive....

you will get through it. I did but reading my diary from the Lyrica WD period it was very bleak indeed.......It is a temporary blip, albeit a very nasty one. 

Well done in getting through another day......each day has to be viewed like that....a day to negotiate and try not to think about the past or future. 

 

Am cheering you on Terry.....you will do it. 

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Altostrata

Terry, are you taking 100mg or 90mg Lyrica? When was your last decrease?

 

As this discussion is about your personal taper, I'm merging it into your Intro topic.

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Terry4949

hi alto , I am currently doing 90 mg of lyrica , split 3 times a day 30mg , I switched over to water tiration 3 weeks ago and ever since I have crashed big style , haven't ever had stabilisation so just trying to push through little by little but I have been hit with such a strong wave of depression much deeper than I have had before , can't eat , endless crying and feeling of hopelessness , when I go and see my doctor all he says is that I need some sort of medication or I won't get better , he says that unfortunately some people need it even though I explain to him about withdrawel , he said that some people are able to withdraw from medication and get better but there are those that are generally sick and will always need meds , I have been suffering for 25 years , I want to know what I am like med free , but I am worried it may cost me my life in doing it , I am sorry to sound so negative maybe it is the drugs but this is hard , I don't get Windows so there is no relief for me 3 years and suffering

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Martina23

Hi Terry,

 

If your doctor will continue to have stupid comments, then just show him the website of Lyrica

http://m.lyrica.com/where is on the bottom the safety information where it stands that the Lyrica provokes suicidality in people and ask him how he could give you such medication and how is it that he does not know of such effects. I find it irresponsible that he gives you faulty medication and then says that you are guilty because surely you are mentally ill when you are suicidal. No. It is the medication.And he should have known it. It should be also issued on every leaflet that Lyrica makes people suicidal. In Europe it is compulsory part of each leaflet.

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Terry4949

I know supplements can be troublesome with people in withdrawel and they should be wary of anything that are stimulating , but has anyone had any good results from , rhodiola or aswagandha , I am looking to something that might reduce anxiety , nervousness , these two supplements are supposed to be very calming , I have tried magnesium but it gives me stomache cramps , have tried many brands just wonder if anybody has any feed back , I'm not sure if these have been discussed in other threads , and I apologise if they have

Edited by scallywag
merged from solo topic

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Bruin

Hi Terry.....I have tried Ashwaganda and it did help a bit without any noticeable bad side effects...However I have read that some people have had difficulty 

with it in withdrawal. I do hope you are having a bit better time of it. 

 

All Best Wishes

 

Bruin.

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ChessieCat

Hi Terry,

 

I was discussing ashwagandha with another member recently and came across this post by GiaK:

 

"I used to take ashwaganda daily...it's one of many supplements that went south on me...it's now agitating and very unpleasant...just FYI"

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