Terry4949: withdrawal help

[Happy2Heal]

Terry so sorry you are going thru this.  If you're still in hospital, they should be able to see that the prozac is making it so you can't sleep.

I would tell them, look, this new drug you put me on, it's making me feel WORSE, please let me try something else.

 

I was given prozac and took one dose and was instantly homicidal, I had the worst feeling of wanting to just rip something or someone apart, and was terrified by it.

I second the lamictal idea. It's not a great drug either (none of them are) but you should probably feel calmer and be able to sleep on it, as it's not at all stimulating.

 

 

Just beg them to make the switch, tell them, I want to get better but this drug makes me feel WORSE than I did when I got here, I need something else.

don't let them try to tell you it takes weeks to work or some other nonsense, tell them it's made me WORSE now and I can't wait any longer, I need relief NOW

 

I am so very sorry you are going thru this. I've been forced to take anti psychotics in the past and it's just horrible to have control over what goes into one's body taken away like that.
I think every damn shrink should be force drugged just to see what it's like. makes me so mad.

 

 

you're going to get thru this, just hold on a little bit longer ok?

 

You are SO strong to have made it this long!! I hope that you feel proud of yourself for that.  ((((hugs))))

[JanCarol]

Hey Terry - 

 

I wish I had a magic link I could give you that was guaranteed to convince all doctors that akathisia is a serious drug side effect.

 

As you are inpatient, you are in a difficult spot.  Usually doctors are easier to talk to if you can remain calm and rational when asking for what you need.

 

If, however, you are suffering from akathisia, tremors, and other drug side effects, this becomes more of a challenge.

 

It's weird - it happened to me, too - if you complain of a side effect while suffering from it - this is seen as "mental illness" and reason for more drugs.

 

Perhaps there is something in here that can help you:

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

Maybe there is something on CEPUK:

http://cepuk.org/unrecognised-facts/negative-effects-often-misdiagnosed/

 

There is a document at the bottom of the page that goes into akathisia.

 

Unfortunately, it is 5 pages long, and most doctors will never read more than 1/2 page of information from the web.

 

if you can convince them that akathisia is a dangerous condition, and that the Prozac is too much (as calmly, rationally, and clearly as possible) then you might be able to take more control of your "care."

 

It may be that your best plan is to "play along" with whatever you have to do to get out of there, and then seek out a doctor to give you a small reinstatement of effexor.

 

I am so sorry you are in this situation.

[Altostrata]

Terry, JanCarol gives good advice. If you can talk to the doctors calmly, they might hear you if you told them the Prozac is too much for you. If you say you are willing to try a little Effexor, they might think that's reasonable. 

 

It sounds like maybe you have rebound insomnia from going off mirtazapine, you might ask them for a little mirtazapine, too. If I were you, I might say I've had a series of adverse reactions to drugs, you think a minimal amount would be a good place to start.

 

As long as you tell them you're suicidal, if you weep or rage, show any great emotion, or beg them for help, they will think you need massive amounts of drugs. I'm sorry you're in this difficult situation and they're not more perceptive.

[Terry4949]

The doctors won't change my med flouxetine , they don't want to give me Effexor and said no to a small amount of mirtazapine , they think that I have just got to ride out the side effects , I can't stop shaking all day it's like I have Parkinson's, I am so thirsty yet I am drinking so much water , my skin feels so hot and like I have pins and needles it's driving me insane , I am so fatigued I can't stand up,without feeling like I am going to faint , this is hell on earth , and I'm stuck in this hospital and have no choice to take the flouxetine , the doctor wants to put me back on Valium says it's anxiety but it's not , where do I go from here , I feel like I'm being punished

[Madeleine]

Do you have a friend or relative who can come to the meetings with the doctor and be an advocate for you?

[Terry4949]

My wife comes to the meetings with me. but she believes I should listen to the professionals , it's been very hard for her and I think she wants me to try a med just to see if it makes me better , as she has watched me suffer for so long , I have told her what has happened to my body and brain, but she has seen no improvement in years and thinks I need something especially as I have been feeling suicidal for the last 4 months so she goes with what the doctor says, I can understand her frustration, but I can't see me getting out of this hospital the way I am going

[Madeleine]

You will get out and you will get better.

If you explain to her rationally why you want to switch to Effexor she might take your side. If she doesn't and you are stuck on what you are on now I do think the side effects will subside. You will feel better and go home and slowly recuperate to the point that this episode will be a dim memory. As I said I was in the hospital in December and also thought I would not get better and I did.

[scallywag]

Maybe you could ask the doctors how long they expect the "side-effects" to continue and what the plan is to support you:

1. Do they expect that these side-effects will end?
2. If not, why do they think continuing on Prozac is a good idea? Wouldn't it be worth *considering* a change?
3. If yes, what's a "reasonable" timeline after having started Prozac for that to happen?
4. If your symptoms continue past that "reasonable" time in question #3, what are the likely next steps:
   • switch to a new medication? If so, what kind of cross-over would they do to minimize the potential interaction effects and the discontinuation effects?
   • add a medication? If so, which ones are worth considering?

[Terry4949]

The thing is I have told them that the Prozac is to stimulating I never had the shakes before going on it and I mean shakes , restlessness , restless legs and the urge to move . I have been on 6 weeks now and the side effects have not abated, but she said that Effexor has a lot of side effects , and she doesn't want to change , when I question her she says that if I don't follow the plan , she will section me and I will be forced to take what they give me , I have just stoped diazepam 4mg a day on it for two weeks as I felt it was doing nothing apart from making me drowsy and she said that I was refusing to take meds but I don't want to get dependant on them and then have to go another withdrawel , I have been in protracted withdrawel for 3 years now hell on earth with no Windows, and now I think they are just going to make things worse I have told them that I am in protracted withdrawel from Effexor over 2years ago and they say it doesn't last that long you know the usual rubbish , I mean how hard is it going to be for me to withdraw from Prozac after 7weeks at 20mg and on to something else as they don't have taper plans it's a case of just stoping them in here , I am still probably getting withdrawel from the mirtazapine they stoped 4weeks ago 13.5 mg no taper , that's why I can't sleep

[Madeleine]

I think scallywag gave excellent advice. Ask how long they think side effects will last given it's been 6 weeks of you feeling jittery.

[Terry4949]

I can't take much more of this I'm really desperate , I went to bed at 11.30 pm and got up at5.00 am in those 5.30 hours I woke 22 times startled in a hot sweat shaking then would drop of and wake again , I am so exhausted night after night , shaking no sleep , I don't no what's worse going of to sleep and waking every 10 minutes in a state or not sleeping at all , is there anything that I can do to help this I am really desperate,

[Bruin]

Oh Terry......am  sorry that you continue to suffer so badly. I think that the moderators  have given you excellent advice.

Of course it is not easy and you are in a vulnerable position but try to be calm with the Doctors even when you feel desperate.

You are very much in my thoughts Terry....All The Best.

[Terry4949]

It's gone from bad to worse , I have been in with the doctor this morning to discuss not sleeping , and told her what I believe is happening in a calm and polite manner, I told her that stopping mirtazapine from 13.5 mg and switching over to Prozac has been a hard transition and that I have been sweating shaking can't sleep at night and that my cns has been sensitised, I have been on the flouxetine for 7 weeks now 20mg and I find it might be to stimulating for me , also with withdrawel from mirtazapine , I have been having suicidel thoughts for weeks and severe depression , so she has decided it is best to come of flouxetine , no taper just stop , she wants me to go without any medication to see what side effects are being caused by the flouxetine at this moment she has no back up plan , she says it's perfectly safe to just stop 20mg as I have only been on it for a short while , my anxiety has now gone through the roof , what do I do , I have tried to explain that I am in withdrawel and that my body is so sensitive to medications drops but she says that if I am in withdrawel with all these side effects then can it get any worse , she did admit that she thinks that flouxetine maybe giving me akathesia as I said I had become so restless on it, in the last 7 weeks I think I have slept once for 2 hours and that is about it , they gave me zoplicone but that done nothing , I hope a moderator reads this and has some advice for me , being stuck in a hospital they have you over a barrel , she will not entertain a switch over to another medication untill she sees what happens with no flouxetine , surely you can't take some thing for 7 weeks and just stop without there being withdrawals , I fear the worst , any help would be appreciated

[scallywag]

Terry - can you suggest that you'd rather try a dose reduction of fluoxetine to 15 mg or 10 mg for 4-5 days to see what happens?  If the symptoms decrease then it's an indication that you're having side effects of fluoxetine. If there's no change in your symptoms, then it would indicate something else is going on, probably withdrawal but they won't likely acknowledge that as a possibility.

[AliG]

I agree with SW . That is a good suggestion and if you can also continue to stay calm and steady as you have been, it will perhaps go better for you at this point.

 

It is up to you what drugs you ingest. If it were me, I would only take what I thought would help and what I wanted  ( if anything) . Anything else would be somehow " disposed of " if at all possible.

 

That is a purely personal observation and not necessarily recommended .

[Terry4949]

Terry - can you suggest that you'd rather try a dose reduction of fluoxetine to 15 mg or 10 mg for 4-5 days to see what happens?  If the symptoms decrease then it's an indication that you're having side effects of fluoxetine. If there's no change in your symptoms, then it would indicate something else is going on, probably withdrawal but they won't likely acknowledge that as a possibility.

I have suggested what you have said scallywag and they won't do a taper , she is adamant that after 6 weeks that it will leave my body slowly and I shouldn't have any problems , I am really scared now , she says if the side effects clear up then we know it's the med , but if it continues it's a underlying problem, well we know what the problem is protracted withdrawel , how am I going to survive this , in the last 2 years they have put me on and taken me of so many drugs I will never heal , in the last 5 months they have stoped 100mg pregablin c/t , 13.5mg of mirtazapine c/t and now 7 weeks of flouxetine and are going to leave me on nothing , don't get me wrong I don't want to be on these meds but a slow taper is required , how much more damage will they do to me , I am getting so worked up over this

[AliG]

I would try and move from " victim " mode to " take charge" mode and tell them what YOU want to do. At the end of the day, they work for you. I would also work on getting the hell out of there.

[Terry4949]

I would try and move from " victim " mode to " take charge" mode and tell them what YOU want to do. At the end of the day, they work for you. I would also work on getting the hell out of there.

I am so worried about going down the suicide path again I have just been through weeks of it , from mirtazapine withdrawel , I am going to speak to someone tomorrow and say that I want 10mg for a couple of weeks and that I can't just go of to nothing , surely they can't do this to me

[Madeleine]

stay safe. Have hope. Do what you can and hopefully you can convince them to do what needs to be done for you to stabilize and then recover as quickly as possible. You Can get better. It will take a bit of time but there is every reason that it can and will happen. I will continue to pray for you to get better and stay safe. As I told you I was totally non functional in the hospital and having trouble sleeping in December for some time but stabilized and then week over week got more and more functional. You are on my thoughts.

[scallywag]

Prozac does have a longer half life so the "bounce" can be less for some people. 

 

Have you tried coming to the question from a different angle, "Can we discuss the potential harms and benefits of different approaches? What would be the potential harm of reducing the Prozac dose more slowly? I feel there would be a benefit because even though Prozac leaves the body more slowly than other medications this would be even slower."

[Terry4949]

Well another night with no sleep , 2 months now still shaking and sweating , anxiety is high but depression has lifted a bit , lots of nervous energy in my legs , first day without my flouxetine I am allready in protracted withdrawel from Effexor ,never recovered now lyrica , mirtazapine , oh just to get one night sleep without the shaking and sweating would be like heaven ,

[Terry4949]

The doctor wants me to start zoplicone for 4 weeks to help me get some sleep as I haven't been sleeping for 6 to7 weeks , is this a good idea I only sleep for about 2 hours max a night , I understand that they are addictive and can cause withdrawals , but as they have now c/t me of all my meds I am worried that if I don't get any sleep I am going to go mad , i am in a hospital so I cannot take any other natural supplement

[Bruin]

Terry I cannot advise you re Zopiclone except to say , as you know, it is addictive and acts on the same receptors as a benzo. 

I have been withdrawing from 2 years use and crossed over to Valium for the taper. It has been very hard. 

However if it is strictly for 4 weeks you could get away with it. The kind of insomnia you are dealing with is brutal.

Am glad that the depression has lifted a bit ...that is a real result. 

 

With all best wishes 

 

Bruin

[scallywag]

Terry, at this point do what you need to do to get some sleep and to get yourself out of the hospital safely.  Consider asking the doctor how long after 4 weeks of taking zopiclone s/he thinks you'll need it to stabilize and then what's the plan.

[Terry4949]

Another night of no sleep , sweating and chills all night , banging headache shaking , feel so bad don't know if it's withdrawel or morning cortisol , mind you I was hot and sweaty before I tried to go to sleep , feel a bit nauseous this morning I think it could be the flouxetine leaving my system ,

[AliG]

Terry. I'm so sorry for your predicament . Did you manage to talk to the doctor as SW suggested and is there a plan at this point ? Do you know how much longer you will be in hospital ?

[Terry4949]

Terry. I'm so sorry for your predicament . Did you manage to talk to the doctor as SW suggested and is there a plan at this point ? Do you know how much longer you will be in hospital ?

thanks alig for your reply ,I won't see a doctor untill Tuesday so I have been on nothing the last 2 days , but I know flouxetine leaves the body slowly so I have probably not got to the withdrawel stage of that yet , but still feeling the effect of the stoping of mirtazapine, the plan is to keep me of everything as they say that I am sensitive to medication ! Really , to see how my body adapts without , but the physical damage is all ready done , akathesia , insomnia plus all the rest , they don't grasp that its damage cause by the medication they treat it as if it is normal depression etc, I'm not sure how long I am going to be in here , nearly 8 weeks now , I think when they are happy that I am no threat to my self they might let me go , but because I had been feeling suicidal for about 12 weeks they don't want to be liable if they let me go , mind you with the amount of meds they have put me on and then just stop it's a wonder people get suicidel,

[Terry4949]

Now I really need advice and help , I have been told today by the doctor in the hospital , that because I am not sleeping and I found flouxetine to activating , they are now going to put me back on 15mg of mirtazapine which they stoped 7 weeks ago I was on 13.5 mg , the drug that I have been trying to reduce for over 12 months which has done absolutely nothing for me except side effects , I beg her not to put me back on it and she said that she will enforce it on me if I don't allow them to treat me , and that they will not release me untill they see improvement , I really don't want to go back on mirtazapine , what do I do , I will have to lie and tell them that I am feeling better to get out of the hospital , they have put me through so much over the last 8 weeks and now they want to put me back where I was before I came in , I hope a moderator can tell me what to do about the mirtazapine , I have refused diazepam and no zoplicone , nor clonazapam and they are saying that everything they try to give me to help me I am refusing , do I not just take the mirtazapine and lie , they seem so lost in what they are doing and won't listen to me , I'm just depressed that's all they say, please any advice

[Madeleine]

15 mg is still less that the 30 mg you were initially on. Perhaps you might stabilize on the amount? As you are in the hospital and need to stabilize, and sleep, perhaps that is the best option?  

 

Also, it's important to be "safe".  Of course, nobody wants to be in the hospital, and many things about being there are not pleasant (I know from my own experience of 2 hospitalizations) but it is better in my opinion to be there, and be safe. Going home when you are feeling so unwell is not a good idea.

[scallywag]

Terry, I wish I knew what would help you and how going back on mirtazapine will affect you. There is a possibility that getting back on the mirtazapine *might*  at least, over time, address any withdrawal symptoms you're having from the forced cold-turkey off mirt 7 weeks ago.

 

You are probably right that the docs don't know what to do either at this point.

[Terry4949]

As you see I am in a predicament at the moment ,in the last few months I have been taken of lyrica c/t 100mg , mirtazapine 13.5mg c/t and flouxetine 20mg c/t on this for 7 weeks , as I have been in protracted withdrawel for 3 years now due to Effexor and nothing has stabilised me should I just say no more ,, I mean the rule is withdraw slowly but I have had that taken away from me , which drug would you reinstate to ease withdrawals , how do I now no which is causing me the most problem. Is it now going to make my recovery even longer and the suffering worse , the doctor wants me back on but if this damage has been done am I just better of with no drugs now , and trying just to survive as best as I can , I mean do I need 3 small doses of each not that they were doing much to stabilise , and now to add to my suffering I have the most awfull cold , I'm sure that's down to stopping c/t fluxotine , what do you think just cut my losses ,

[scallywag]

Terry, your guess about how you'd do with c/t of everything is as good as anyone's. As long as you're in the hospital, though, you have to play by their rules. I don't think they'll let you take nothing; maybe they will. 

[Madeleine]

I don't think going on 3 makes sense. Sorry to hear about your cold. Will continue to pray for you.

[AliG]

The doc's don't know what to do because they're essentially clueless. They have no idea. Would they let you C/T? I'm not sure if they will. Have you talked to them about it ?

[Terry4949]

So had to see the doctor today , kept calm tried to put my point over that the medication on and of has taken its toll on me and my body has now become sensitive to medication even natural supplements , and that I feel my illness and physical wellbeing is a result of medication and that by adding anything else would cause more harm to my body and recovery , the fact that you have now taken me of everything is it best that we see how my body recovers med free and maybe that you can help me in other ways to help my body heal as medication is not doing a lot and I have tried so many anti depressants now that it safe to say they have not help and In fact are making me worse , the reply I got was you have not found the right med yet , so they have now suggested paroxetine or amitriptyline as I haven't tried them yet , my god what have you got to do to get through to these people , I think they won't let me out of this hospital unless I agree to take something , I might have to try a low dose of Effexor to get me out and then get of it , just worried it might go paradoxical on me ,

[Madeleine]

 I might have to try a low dose of Effexor to get me out and then get of it , just worried it might go paradoxical on me ,

 

Terry: Try not to worry about things that might happen in the future. Of course it's good to think and plan ahead to some extent, but at the same time, worrying about something that might not happen creates unnecessary stress. I think maybe this type of worrying about the future might be making you more anxious. Right now, focus on living in the moment and on getting better and stabilized. (It will happen!) Just get through the best you can, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. 

Thinking of you, 

M.