alejirbag Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi all, My problem is my neurologist never warned me about possibilities of withdrawal symptoms, and took me cold-turkey off Deanxit and Cypralex, and later I went cold-turky from Cymbalta twice (of course had no idea about tapering etc). So here is my story in details: 03/2014 -03/2015 - 1 Deanxit pill and 10mg of Cipralex and Clonazepam 1mg daily. Prescribed for pain in the foot, when all other exams returned nothing. Neurologist diagnosis was "serotonergic dysfunction suspect". I was scheduled for operation (not related to this problem) and 4 days before operation my neurologist took me off Deanxit and Cipralex cold-turkey. I had mild withdrawal symptoms: flu-like symptoms, headache, eye pain, eye burning sensation and strong neck pain. Due to extremely strong neck pain neurologist prescribed me Cymbalta 30mg for one week and then 60mg after that. I was on 60mg of Cymbalta from 06/2015 to 09/2015. I wanted to stop taking Cymbalta and during one week I lowered my dose from 60mg to zero. I still didn't know about withdrawal problems, and my neurologist never mentioned it. After few days I got extreme brain zaps while moving my eyes. Immediately I got back to 60mg and 2 days later everything was OK. 2 weeks I was on 60mg and feeling stable, I started to lower my dose on 30mg. 3 weeks later extreme withdrawal symptoms started (abdominal crabs, diarrhea, vomiting, electric shock sensations while moving eyes, rapid eyes movement when my eyes are close, myoclonic jerks of all parts of the body, sensory overload). 10 days later (07th of November) I got back to my max dose (60mg) and 2 months later and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms: myoclonic jerks of arms and legs, muscle twitching, sometimes diarrhea, constant nausea, extreme problems while moving eyes (can't focus on anything, e.g. watching out of bus, everything moves too fast and triggers extreme discomfort in my braing), sometimes mild brain zaps, pain in my whole back(this is new symptom after reinstatement) and extreme sensory overload to the any kind of sound. In the meanwhile I have read everything online about withdrawal, seen all doctors in my area (no use) and I'm fully aware of my situation. Unfortunately, I didn't know all this before. Of course I want to take this poison out of my body/brain, but now I just want to stabilize so I can go to work again and at least try to have normal life and then start slow tapering. I'm taking every supplement I read it could help: Omega 3 fish-oil, calcium, magnesium, folic acid, zinc, vitamins (D, B1, B6, B12), antioxidants,Probiotics and taking baths in Epsom salt. Sorry for long intro, I don't know how is relevant to write everything. So, long story short, more than 2 months of reinstatement I have minimum improvement of my symptoms and don't know what to do. Has anyone else had similar situation, that can't stabilise even after more than 2 months of reinstatement? This whole time I'm taking 1mg of Clonazepam constantly. My doctor wants to prescribe me lowest dose (half pill of 25mg) of Seroquel and cut my Clonazepam to half (0.5 mg), saying it would help me to get of Cymbalta. Should I go with it or no? Once again sorry for long intro, and thanks in advance for help. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted January 10, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi alejirbag, and welcome to SA. I can't offer any suggestions with regards to your withdrawal symptoms. Someone with more knowledge should be along soon and may be able to help with that. However, you mentioned Clonazepam but it isn't clear whether you are still taking it. The mods need to know all medications you are currently taking, when you started them and what dose so if there is something you have missed out could you please add it in. They need to have the full drug information so they can make the best suggestions. You can use this topic to ask questions and as a journal of your progress. Top right of this page is Follow this Topic and you will be notified when someone has replied. CC * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Thanks ChessieCat, I updated my signature as well as intro post. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
AliG Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi Alejirbag. Welcome. You are in a good place to deal with all this. There is a lot of information and support here. From what I can see you have had a lot of changes over the last couple of months. You have been up and down in your doses, at a fast rate. I think that is why you're experiencing symptoms. Your C.N.S. needs a break . You C/T'd in June . You went from 30 mg to 60 mg. In September, you dropped back to 0mg, then back up to 60mg. 2 weeks later , back down to 30 mg. 3 weeks later. W/D & back to 60 mg. Have i got that right ? It's not a wonder you're having symptoms. You're system is most probably sensitized , as well meaning you are sensitive to these medications after all the changes. I think I will wait for someone with more experience to answer your question. If it were me , I wouldn't add another drug into the equation. In the meantime, if you read these links it might help you to understand a little more. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/ http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/ You might be having a reaction to the high dose of drug , you are on after being sensitized. My instinct would be to hold or drop a little , and then do a very slow taper. Ali Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014 Psych Drug - free since May 2014 . Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 AliG, Thank you for your answer and for the links. Regarding links, I'm already familiar with most of this, as I've been reading forum before I have register, and I'm also a member of group on FB which deals with Cymbalta problems. Can you please explain your sentence You're system is most probably sensitized , as well meaning you are sensitive to these medications after all the changes ? Sorry for my bad English, but as I understand it, you are saying I'm now extremely sensitive on Cymbalta? But what else can I do, if I don't take my dose I'm afraid it will get even worse. Also, you are suggesting to lower my dose, but I'm too afraid to do it, because of possible new problems. Thanks! Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted January 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi Alejirbag-- welcome to the group. I'm so sorry to hear how the doctors have caused you all this pain over the last year. We have found out that most doctors have no idea how powerful these drugs are or how to use them. These drugs work by making physical changes to the brain and nervous system. But these changes require the presence of the drug to keep working. If you change the amount or type of drug the brain gets very confused and reacts by causing all the uncomfortable symptoms we feel. When the dose is increased or decreased too fast or stopped all together and then restarted in the manner you've been doing the brain gets really confused and doesn't want the drug but has to have it at the same time so any little change just confuses it more. That's sort of how "sensitivity" works. What you need right now is stability. One constant dose taken at the same time every day. It will take some time, probably several months, but your brain will settle into a stable place. It may not be feeling good, but it will be stable. Once that happens you can start to taper off the drug very slowly. This way it can adjust to the changes gradually and not rebel. We have a lot of information on how to do this, but first lets get you stable and more comfortable. Thank you for adding a signature block it really helps us to see what is happening. BTW you English is fine. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi Brassmonkey, Thanks for the answer. Yes, for more than 2 months now I'm taking same dose (60 mg) every day at same time (5 PM). But I'm not improving my stability or I'm improving it by micro-steps, barely noticeable. In the meantime I have read everything about tapering, and for sure I'll be more than careful when I start it. But right now I just need to feel stable and get my symptoms in bearable condition. Main reason why I registered is to receive answers on following questions: Have anyone else here been in this long unstable period after reinstatement (especially with Cymbalta)? How long to wait more, before taking any kind of action (reduce, increase dose etc.)? My doctor suggested to take lowest dose (half pill of 25 mg) of Seroquel and cut my Clonazepam to half (0.5 mg). I'm too afraid to do it. Any advice on this Sorry for repeating myself, I'm aware that most of this I had already written in previous posts. But I feel desperate, devastated, scared for my life and for my health long term, extremely depressed and I don't see way out of this. I was just hoping someone here was in same situation with reinstatement and will have any kind of advice for me. Yes I know: patience, patience, patience. But it is so hard to be patient when there is no improvement, there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted January 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2016 "But I feel desperate, devastated, scared for my life and for my health long term, extremely depressed and I don't see way out of this." Believe it or not these frequently are symptoms that come up while waiting for a reinstatement to settle in. The trick is to accept them for what they are and not let them upset you even more. Reinstatement is a very unpredictable process that can take weeks or months to happen. If you're improving in microsteps, that is a good thing. Given more time the steps will get bigger and bigger and things will settle out. We have a lot of members who are going through the same thing and they should be showing up pretty soon to tell you all about it. I would not suggest adding the Seroquel and cutting the Clonazepram all that will do is stir the pot and cause more chaos in the brain. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
AliG Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hi Alej. I think the best thing you can do right now , is to stay stable . Quote : What you need right now is stability. One constant dose taken at the same time every day. It will take some time, probably several months, but your brain will settle into a stable place. It may not be feeling good, but it will be stable. Once that happens you can start to taper off the drug very slowly. This way it can adjust to the changes gradually and not rebel. We have a lot of information on how to do this, but first lets get you stable and more comfortable. End quote.( Brassmonkey) There will be light. Ali Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014 Psych Drug - free since May 2014 . Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Thank you both for you answers, I really appreciate it. But I must ask again if there is anyone with similar experience, please? I'm feeling even worse today, all symptoms are back there, I'm literally dying, can't stand eye problems, extreme nausea and diarrhea, muscle twitching and extreme sensory overload to any kind of sound. Also, intensity of symptoms is incredible high, I feel the same as when I lowered my dose from 30 mg to 60 mg. Of, course I'm asking my self why I did even go back to 60 mg, when everything is the same I feel incredible physical pain and problems, also together with this I feel emotionally at the bottom, because I don't see out of this Please, please if you have any advice, please say it I'm aware I have to be patient, but I'm for 2 and a half months now patient, and every day in extreme pain. Can't take it anymore Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted January 14, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 14, 2016 Hi alejirbag , I'm so sorry you're suffering like this. In the last 2 months , have things overall gotten any better , or worse , or are they about the same? How are you managing at home on a daily basis? Do you have anyone at home with you? I waited 8 months to stabilize after a big crash in 2013. It can take a long time , so it's important to use all the psychological tricks you have up your sleeve in the meantime. Best wishes , Fresh . 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Hi Gold Star, thanks for reply. I'm in a bed whole day, as soon as I start to walk I got extreme nausea and diarrhea, so I'm mostly in bed which is only way to survive for me. I have a husband, who is of course at work during day, and he tries to help me as much as he can, but there is nothing he can do about my symptoms. I can see in your signature you used Seroquel, how was your experience with it? My doctor, as only solution actually, suggested to take lowest dose (half pill of 25 mg) of Seroquel and cut my Clonazepam to half (0.5 mg). I'm afraid to take new medication, but I'm more than desperate now. Did this medication helped you? Do you think if I take it in recommended lowest dose, it could help me through my withdrawal? You sad it is important to use all psychological tricks, can you please explain what you meant? Thanks! Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted January 15, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 15, 2016 Another question for you alejirbag. . . how often are you taking clonazepam 1mg? Please don't decrease this yet - I'll ask our benzo advisor Wellness to check in with you. You can get benzo withdrawal , which would just complicate things. By psychological tricks , I mean all the small things that you do that make you feel a little more relaxed , or allow your mind a break from thinking about being sick. Listening to relaxation tracks , colouring in , doing household tasks , taking a bath , watching tv - anything at all that distracts you. There are lots of threads in the Symptoms section that relate to nausea , natural remedies that help. My favourite is a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar in hot water , with honey. It changes the ph balance in your stomach and is a probiotic. Have you tried ginger, or ginger tea? You need to find a way to get nutrients , maybe bone broth or meal replacement shakes? I'd put a lot of effort into getting regular nutrition and trying to stabilize your digestive system , before considering adding seroquel. I understand that you're fed up , but adding another drug does potentially create more problems down the track. If and when you reconsider this , you can add a far smaller dose than your doc, suggested. You can start with 1mg , and work your way up slowly if you need to. All the instructions for making small "designer doses" is at the top of the tapering section. . 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 I'm taking clonazepam 1mg, every day. Regarding psychological tricks, I'm trying all that. But often it is too hard, when I can't get out of bed, due to pain and nausea, not because of depression or my will. I'm more than happy to go to work, when I can, because that way I'm focused on other thing, instead of thinking whole day about my symptoms. As soon I feel little better, I go to walk with my husband or anything else, I'm sick of lying in the bed. Yes I'm taking baths with Epson salts, listening to relaxing music and so on. And regarding supplements I'm taking probiotics, ginger tea and all kind of other supplements. I already mentioned this, but I feel I must say it again, I'm not depressed or I ever was before. I was prescribed with this drugs only because of pain and doctors couldn't find cause. Now I'm getting depressed only because of this horrible situation and my fear for my health. I have already asked if someone has been to similar situation. I understand people have gone through similar and even worse situation, but as I understand it was during tapering or even when they quit medicine completely. I want to know has someone been to situation like mine, taking their max dose for more than 2 and a half months, and still not getting stable? That is what is worrying me the most right now. If there was similar case here, especially with Cymbalta, can someone please provide links to threads? Many thanks in advance! Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi alejirbag, I'm sorry you haven't been able to get the kind of answer you are looking for, I found a link with some discussion about general experiences of reinstatement and updosing, perhaps this will help: Did antidepressant reinstatement work for you? - Symptoms ... Do you still have the original pain you were prescribed these drugs for? I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi, I have my own topic (http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11036-alejirbag-cant-stable-again-on-cymbalta/), but I couldn't get answer I'm looking for. So I'll bump into this one, hopefully that is OK. To make long story short, I'm trying to reinstate for 2.5 months now, unfortunately unsuccessful. I was on Cymbalta 60 mg, tried to taper to 30 mg, got severe WD symptoms, reinstated back with 60 mg. I understand people have gone through similar and even worse situation, but as I understand it was during tapering or even when they quit medicine completely. I want to know has someone been to situation like mine, taking their max dose for more than 2 and a half months, and still not getting stable? Especially with Cymbalta. What to do now, I'm clueless Can't wait more due to severe symptoms and physical pain, but I don't see any other solution. I'm scared to lower or upper my dose, do add new drug (doctor suggesting Serquel). Please help. Thanks Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 21, 2016 Administrator Share Posted January 21, 2016 Welcome, alejirbag. I moved your post here, so as to keep details about your situation in one place. At what time of day do you take 1mg clonazepam? Please keep notes on paper about your daily symptom pattern, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Are you taking any other drugs? As esteemed members and moderators noted above, going on and off drugs so many times has destabilized your nervous system and caused hyper-sensitivity to drugs and other things, such as light. Sometimes reinstatement takes a while, much more than two months to assist stabilization. It could be that 60mg Cymbalta is now too much for your sensitized nervous system and you are reacting to that, too. Or, you could be getting a rebound or paradoxical reaction to the clonazepam. A record of your daily symptom pattern will help determine what's causing what. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi Altostrata, I'm taking clonazepam every night before sleep at 10 PM and Cymbalta (60 mg) every day at 5 PM for last 2.5 months. I'm not taking any other drugs and yes, I'm keeping notes about my symptoms and dosage I'm taking. I always have the same symptoms, but not every day with same intensity. What I want to say is every week is one of symptoms extremely strong and unbearable, e.g. for weeks it is nausea and stomach ache, week before it was myoclonic jerks of arms and legs and muscle twitching, week before this it were extreme problems while moving eyes and light brain zaps etc. So symptoms are always there, but different day different symptom is at it's peak, if I can say it like that. You are saying it could be I need more time to stabilize, or it could be that 60 mg is too much. But how I can know what is it? What can I do to make it better? Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 21, 2016 Administrator Share Posted January 21, 2016 What has been your daily symptom pattern for the last week? Variability is very typical of withdrawal symptoms. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 For the last 2 weeks gastrointestinal symptoms are worst, and before that neurological symptoms were most intense. Here are gastrointestinal symptoms that are affecting me: stomach pain, nausea, diarrhea and extreme attack of weakness (when nausea is at is peak). Symptoms are significantly worse when I move, I feel like I have a sea sickness, During the day I have multiple periods (2-3 hours) with akhatisia and myoclonic jerks. In most cases I feel worse in the afternoon/evening than during the day. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 21, 2016 Administrator Share Posted January 21, 2016 Are these symptoms better or worse before you take Cymbalta? Do you feel any different after you take it? What time do you wake up? How do you feel? You may wish to go on a very mild diet for a while, such as chicken, broth, rice, etc., to let your stomach settle down. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 There is no difference, or should I say there is no any pattern regarding taking Cymbalta. But often I feel worse in the evening (I take Cymbalta every day at 5 pm) it could be I feel worse because of decrease of Cymbalta in my blood. As I understood while reading online, it takes 6 to 10 hours for Cymbalta to get to max concentration in blood. I wake up at 7:30 when I have to go to work. I feel extremely nauseous and it takes 20 min just to be able to get off the bed. During weekends I feel sleepy all day and mostly I'm in bed (Before this WD issues, I have never slept longed). In total I feel completely done, my body and organism are totally crushed. I just want to know is there any way to get better Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 21, 2016 Administrator Share Posted January 21, 2016 Do you feel worse before you take Cymbalta at 5pm? You are nauseous in the morning? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm nauseous whole day, but it comes in waves, sometimes it is unbearable, literally unbearable, and sometimes is just bad. No, I don't feel worse before I take Cymbalta. It is hard to determine, but in general I got more nausea and attack of weakness in the evening. But there is no clear pattern. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 21, 2016 Administrator Share Posted January 21, 2016 It's very important that you keep notes on paper: When you take Cymbalta, and when you get waves of nausea or other symptoms. One way to test whether it's the Cymbalta is to open the capsule, take out 20 beads, and take them earlier in the day, at noon, for example. It could be that dividing the dose will help. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus SquirrellyGirl Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi alejirbag,I am so sorry you got so messed up by bad doctoring! They really don't seem to have a clue how these drugs work, what they do to the nervous system, and a neurologist especially ought to know! I'm with everyone else - don't drop the benzo by half or you will be in even bigger trouble! It sounds like your system is trying to heal, for the fact that from week to week symptoms are different. Change, even if it isn't perceived as good change, is still a sign that things are trying to adjust. I'm no molecular biologist but I think that these drugs have an impact farther reaching than just the serotonin receptors they block. Hormones, enzymes, other molecules and processes throughout the body have interactivity with serotonin, and who knows what other pathways are impacted by these drugs beyond the ones looked at in the research phase...So, it stands to reason that there are reverberations throughout the body with the changes in dosages that you have been through. I liken it to the Pendulum wave in this video: You might want to turn the volume down! All the systems are trying to get in sync with each other but as one things changes, it causes changes elsewhere. Windows may be like the times in the wave where everything is in harmony while waves are like when the balls look like chaos. I think if you try to see your symptom pattern as an ever-changing scene on a canvas rather than just all bad, it might give you some relief. I know that the physical symptoms you are having are pretty horrendous, and I'm thinking they are like extreme side effects rather than withdrawal, like an adverse drug reaction, but I'll leave that to the mods to decide. How was it when you first started Cymbalta - did you have bad start-up effects? SG Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac. Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002 Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history. Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots! Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off. Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep. June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened! Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015. Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month. 12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18: 2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 I didnt have any problems when starting just mild nausea for the first few days...If I had just one hour per day without any symptom I could see the end of this dark tunnel.And the worse part is that I am on the drug.I am not sure this could be side effect from the drug because all of this symptoms I got at the moment when I decreased dose.I cant belive I can be so sick for so long without improvment,like my whole body has fall apart.I am physicaly crushed.I am bearly walking,I have to walk slow not to caused nausea,weaknes,diarrhea attack... Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
alejirbag Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Is it possible for me to have "kindling" effect? How is possible to have new symptoms ( pain in my bones, through my back and arms) which I never had before? Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 24, 2016 Administrator Share Posted January 24, 2016 That is typical of withdrawal syndrome. See What is withdrawal syndrome? About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
alejirbag Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 My serotonin blood level have just come and it is under normal levels. Referent levels are from 3 to 250, and mine is under 3. Please can someone suggest me what to do with that information. I am on 60 mg Cymbalta and in protracted withdrawal. At this moment I am shaking, having myoclonic jerks and nausea. If I go to doctor he would just tell me increase the drug. Maybe I had serotonin level under normal and before, who knows, and maybe it's caused with this withdrawal. I am so confused I'm also a member of FB Cymbalta group, and people there suggest to me to start slowly tapering. I'm too scared to taper now. It's been almost 4 months since reinstating, should I wait more or should I start tapering? Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus SquirrellyGirl Posted February 6, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted February 6, 2016 Hello alejirbag, One of the mods will probably chime in on the serotonin, but I don't know that anything can be done with that information. You are still on 60 mg of Cymbalta, correct? So, that should be keeping a high level in the nerve gap. If you were in withdrawal off of all meds, I would expect your serotonin to be very low due to the down-regulation of serotonin production and receptors. I am curious as to how blood levels of serotonin pertain to what is happening in the brain. I will be curious to see what the mods say. I don't think enough research (if any) has been done on what happens with withdrawal or even on the drug as far as one's ability to produce serotonin is concerned. I do know studies have pretty much disproven the imbalance theory of depression, but that is not looking at the withdrawal situation. Only 1/3 of depressed people were found to have low serotonin. 1/3 had normal levels and 1/3 had high levels! What is even more interesting is that for the healthy control group, 1/3 had low serotonin, 1/3 normal and 1/3 high! So, you can't even say that the low serotonin was the cause of those peoples' depression since normal people also had low serotonin! Are you feeling any differently than back when you posted last? Have your symptoms changed at all? If your Cymbalta has the little beads, you could count how many beads are in a few different capsules, and get the average number (total number in three capsules divided by 3). Then, perhaps calculate how many beads would equate to 5% and remove that. Or, you could even start with a smaller percentage, like 2.5%. Less than 5% should hardly be noticeable, and might then give you confidence to proceed. For the first month, just hold at that level and keep notes in a journal daily to note your symptom pattern. You will then be able to tell if symptoms come up a certain number of days after a cut. Then, note how many days those symptoms last. That will give you a roadmap to what to expect when. I would hold for at least a month between cuts until you get a feel for how you'll respond and what your pattern is. Your history really destabilized your nervous system, so take it really slow in the beginning. I know it is scary when you've had the crashes that you have experienced. As Brassmonkey says, you can sneak up on your taper :-) SG Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac. Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002 Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history. Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots! Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off. Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep. June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened! Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015. Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month. 12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18: 2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. Link to comment
alejirbag Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Hi SquirrellyGirl, Thank you very much for your response. Beside serotonin blood level test, I also did Cymbalta blood level test, and it is also under referent value (<10, normal is 30-120). Can somebody tell me is there any conclusion from this information? Of course doctors would advice me to increase my Cymbalta dose, but I don't want to do it. My biggest concern now are Myoclonic jerks in my stomach, that are very severe and every time they "punch" air out of my lungs. This is new symptom, and that is way I'm not sure to start tapering right now. In the official Cymbalta documentation it is stated that Myoclonic jerks are possible side effect. I can't distinct is this caused by the WD or by the side effects? And I'm really afraid it could be side effects and permanent brain damage Beside that all old symptoms are there, plus some new like incredible pain in my arms, neck and shoulders. I feel so much pain I can't pick up my pillow or a blanket I started tapering ultra slow this week, removing 6 beads from every pill (There is 600 in a capsule). Of course this is too slow and this way I would never taper, but I had to try it because nothing is helping me, I can't stabilize and can't go on like this anymore. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted March 3, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 3, 2016 Hi alejirbag ,,, how have you been feeling? I don't think anything can be inferred from the serotonin level in your blood , as 90% of it is stored in the gut / digestive system. bw , Fresh 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
alejirbag Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hello, Alejirbag's husband here. She started tapering 5 weeks ago, removing 1% ( 6 beads every week). Reason she started slowly tapering is she couldn't get to stabilize on her max dosage (60mg) As I'm writing here she is crying and screaming of pain. Every joint, every muscle is hurting. She is having terrible brain zaps, unbearable nausea, extreme over sensitivity to sound, and many others terrible symptoms. She actually had all of these symptoms for months now, but somehow she would get through it. But intensity now is unbearable. Is there anything we can do? Is there any thing I can do for her? We have tried literally everything. Every supplement there is ( all kind of vitamins, diet, omega 3 oil, strongest probiotics, everything possible), every advice we could find online (meditation, yoga, relaxing, keep everything calm and slowly, support groups, positive thinking), but nothing , really nothing is helping. I'm so desperate I can't even describe it. How painful is to watch love one tortured in pain and you can't do anything. So please please, if you have any kind of advice I would be more than grateful. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted March 29, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hi alejirbag's husband , when did the intensity escalate ... how many days ago? Please stop all supplements / probiotics / vitamins. For some people they trigger a bad reaction. I'm looking at her signature , and can't tell what date in March she was taking "clonazapam constantly" (am assuming that 2014 is an error , she meant 2016). Can you give any more information on how much clonazepam she has been taking each day , doses , and what effect it has on her. Thanks , Fresh 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
alejirbag Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 No, it is not an error. She is taking Clonazepam every day for last two years. It help her sleep, at least i did help before. But now she is too scared to try to reduce it, because of possible withdrawal problems. Regarding your other question, everything escalated 4-5 days ago. Cymbalta 03/2014 - 03/2015 - Deanxit, Cypralex 10mg and Clonazepam 1mg (all prescribed for foot pain), stopped Deanxit and Cypralex cold-turkey, got mild withdrawal symptoms 06/2015 - 09/2015 - due to neck pain (caused by cold-turkey above) I got on Cymbalta 30mg for one week, after one week up to 60mg 09/2015 - in one week lowered my dose of Cymbalta from 60mg to zero. I got severe withdrawal symptoms and got back to 60mg 09/2015 - two weeks later I was feeling stable and started to lower my dose again to 30mg. 3 weeks later severe withdrawal symptoms started again 10/2015 - I got back to 60mg of Cymbalta and I still have severe withdrawal symptoms. 03/2016 - Started tapering 1% per week, for 4 weeks 04/2016 - After 4 weeks, and 4% off stopped tapering due to unbearable symptoms 06/2016 - Started switching Cymbalta to Fluoxetine 07/2016 - Switched half-way, stopped at 30 mg Cymbalta and 20 mg of Fluoxetine. Couldn't continue with bridging due to severe eyes problems, caused by Fluoxetine. 08/2016 - Stopped taking all drugs due to Serotonin syndrome Clonazepam 03/2014 - 04/2016 - 1 mg of Clonazepam daily 07/2016 - today - 0.5 mg of Clonazepam daily 08/2016 - stopped Clonazepam completely due to Serotonin syndrome Link to comment
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