downtongirl: I want to become med-free

[Fresh]

How are you going downtongirl?

What's happened since the first dose of prozac on Jan. 5. . . are you continuing?

[downtongirl]

Hey gold star...I ended up getting some new magnesium glycine the supplements which may have helped a little last night I had to take 20 milligrams of Hydroxyzine to sleep...it worked well and I felt good today until bed time and now I have insomnia again...psych dr wants me to use Hydroxyzine for now instead of restarting Prozac....I am scared to take Hydroxyzine again because I am afraid I will get dependent on it...thank you for checking on me...have you ever used Hydroxyzine?

[Fresh]

Moving this out of Symptoms section DG , perhaps you can ask Chochka on their thread.

 

"Chochka, on 06 Jan 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

Hi SquirellyGirl, it's Chochka. Thanks for your advice to join this forum. I've felt terrible for months now, even though I've only just come off prozac. I don't want to go back on again as I think it stopped working for me a while ago. I've just got to get through this. I will certainly listen to these. See you soon.

 

Hey chochka if you don't mind me asking how long have you been off of Prozac and what are your withdrawal symptoms? I stopped Prozac September 30th of this year...I used it to get me off of Effexor...been on psych drugs for 20 years and I am in a bad wave right now...insomnia, waves of trembling inside and out, anxiety, blurred vision, heart palpitations, weak legs feel tired but energized at the same time. Been in this wave since Sunday night"

 

I haven't used hydroxyzine. If you want to look for thread on it , do a google search for "surviving antidepressants hydroxyzine".

 

Fresh

[downtongirl]

Ok went to psych dr yesterday afternoon and he wants me to hold off reinstating and use the Hydroxyzine...here is my timeline of withdrawal since stopping Prozac on September 30th...I did not have any real withdrawal symptoms for 5 weeks...then went to the gym for three days in a row...which was new for me I do not exercise...and got hit with diarrhea, anxiety...this lasted for about 9 days then 9 days later can't quit having negative thoughts of my health almost hypochondriac...but otherwise doing really well was even sleeping great...December 9th I had returned to the gym for three more days in a row and got hit with muscle pain, fatigue, and anxiety. I took a Flexeril for muscle spasms and took another one 6 days later not knowing they are very closely related to a tea antidepressant... 6 days later I have diarrhea, anxiety, panic, chills, insomnia...December 23rd I take a Hydroxyzine for sleep...it worked and anxiety and withdrawal symptoms went away....8 days later on January 1st I begin walking daily and cutting back on my food...three days of this and same symptoms come back...Tuesday night took Hydroxyzine for sleep slept well felt pretty good yesterday until bedtime...did not sleep a wink last night.... Is this the windows and waves patterns? I had felt so good I went and registered to go back to college later this month handed in my notice at work and now I think I am screwed

[bubble]

You have a 20 year history of various SSRIs, SNRs and a benzo and numerous cold turkeys. Over 20 years your brain has physically changed. This will not go away with the help of supplements.

 

We see people getting worse even a year or more after discontinuing the drugs. I don't see a different option for you than reinstating. People who have been on drugs for 20 years can't just tough it out. You have to regow a new brain.

 

You got lots of advice since you first joined here, among others this:

 

Given your length of time on them and your history of previous attempts to get off (probably much too quickly), you will need to plan for this to be a multi-year process.  Your brain has adapted to the presence of the drugs, and you need to taper slowly enough to regrow your brain, which is not a quick process. But you can totally do it.  

 

Despite all the information you got you reduced from 60 mg to 30 mg of Cymbalta some time later.

Among other things you got this advice:

 

Whether you decide to stay at 60 mg. or try 40 mg., please just stay at whatever dose you choose for at least a month.  All the jumping around in dosage is likely aggravating the entire situation.  I doubt the Prozac switch would be a good idea for that reason--it's another change.

 

Please read this topic:  Why Taper By 10% of My Dosage?   

 

There is NO WAY to get immediate relief from withdrawal symptoms.  Getting the drug out of your body is not the solution.  These drugs make physical, structural changes to the brain that can take months to years to heal themselves, and in the meantime the abnormal structures need the support of those drugs.  That's why we recommend tapering very slowly, listening to your body, and even updosing slightly if a cut seems to be too much.  This way your brain can heal at its own pace--and there's no way to rush this!--with the slowly diminishing chemical support it needs.

 

Despite that, it seems you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result:

 

I have been off all meds. after 20 years of being on a cocktail of benzo and antidepressants for 8 weeks. This is my 4th attempt at becoming med free...I was ok for two weeks then had withdrawal symptoms then better for a week and then more symptoms.  I have been doing well the past two weeks but the past three days I have been experiencing rapid changes in mood from depression to panicky feelings through out the day...I feel more nervous now 8 weeks after my last dosage than I did in the first few days after my last dosage?  Is this normal?

 

You again got the best of our advice:

 

Hi downtongirl,

I joined the new topic you started called 'Is there a such thing as delayed withdrawal symptoms?' to your original topic. Its one intro/update topic per member. Please bookmark or follow this topic so you can find it easily again.

 

To answer your question, its quite common for withdrawal symptoms to be delayed for several weeks, sometimes even months. Here is our related topic:  Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms - Symptoms and ...

 

From your signature, it looks like you you cross tapered to prozac to taper from Effexor? How were you feeling after you stopped taking Effexor? Did you manage to stabilize on Prozac?

 

Tapering from 150mg of Effexor and then 10mg of Prozac in just 3 months is much too fast and its not surprising you are now having withdrawal symptoms.

 

Please read back through this thread from the beginning, several links were posted to help you understand the importance of slow tapering.

 

As ChessieCat has suggested, reinstatement of a small amount of Prozac may help, please read through the link she posted. If you decide to try it, perhaps 1 - 2mg may be enough. Then you would need to hold for a good long while to let your system stabilize before beginning a careful taper from that.

 

You have been on these kinds of drugs for 20 years and have tried 4 times to come off them by tapering too fast. Its probably safe to say that you are the kind of person who needs to taper slowly.

 

See:   Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

 

Please stay in touch and let us know what you decide to do.

 

Petunia.

 

This was 2 months ago but it seems you keep asking the same question, looking for a quick fix and a miracle cure.

 

I'm afraid we can't give you a different answer from the one we have already given you several times.

 

Everything you describe in numerous threads you start is withdrawal syndrome: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

If supplements could treat withdrawal we would gladly recommend them. But, according to medical knowledge, reinstatement is the only way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.

 This is from the thread we have probably posted for you several times: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

Medicine wants to believe the acute phase of withdrawal lasts only a few weeks. From what people have posted on the Web, it can last many months.
The inserts in all the newer antidepressants and many other psychiatric drugs advise reinstatement of the medication if withdrawal symptoms appear. This is all medicine knows about how to treat withdrawal.

What is known about reinstatement

from my reading and from patient experience as posted on online support sites:

• Reinstatement is best done immediately upon appearance of withdrawal symptoms. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.
• The length of this window of opportunity varies according to the individual. Sometimes people can reinstate successfully months after quitting. Others cannot.

We all panic and lose perspective when hit by withdrawal. That's why the most important thing is to stay calm, inform yourself, make an informed decision and stick with it.

[downtongirl]

Well I just took a 10 mg dosage of Prozac...place is to reinstate and stabilize...please pray for me I am worried about reinstatement startup side effects.

[Fresh]

Is that with the support of your doctor DG?

 

If you do get start-up symptoms , you could always take 5mg for a week and then decide if you want to

increase to 10mg or stay on 5mg.

[ChessieCat]

Well I just took a 10 mg dosage of Prozac...place is to reinstate and stabilize...please pray for me I am worried about reinstatement startup side effects.

 

place = plan? to reinstate and stablize.

 

Just be aware that because you have been off Prozac for just over 3 months, going back on 10mg might be too high a dose.  It might be better to reduce it to a smaller amount.  One of the mods may be able to advise a better dose.

Also realise that gentle exercise is better than heavy exercise.

 

Make your plan and STICK TO IT!!!  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Edit:  Fresh just snuck in before me.

 

CC

[downtongirl]

Yes it is with my doctors blessing...and I am worried about the 10 but dr. Felt since the 5 mg dosage did not do anything one way or another the other morning then we should try 10. And sorry for my typos it was supposed to be plan not place.

[downtongirl]

The Prozac I have is liquid form so we could easier dose at smaller increments...it tastes awful... Does liquid forms of medication reach the blood stream quicker than pill form?

[KarenB]

I am worried about the 10 but dr. Felt since the 5 mg dosage did not do anything one way or another the other morning then we should try 10.

 

 

It can take at least 4 days for a dose to register in your system so 5mg may in fact be plenty for you, but you just need to give it more time. 

 

If you've only taken 1 dose of 10mg, it is an option for you to return to the 5mg and hold there while noting symptoms for 4-7 days, then reassess. 

[downtongirl]

Ok call this a fluke but 30 minutes after dosage I started feeling a little bit better...is this possible so quickly?

[Fresh]

Ditto to what Karen and Chessie said.

It's good to start back on liquid so you can manipulate the dose precisely as you get lower.

 

I don't know about if liquid's metabolized quicker (that makes sense to me), but I can say that members

often have problems changing from tablets to liquid. So there is a difference.

Again , another good reason for you to take liquid from the get-go.

 

Whatever the next 24 hours brings , you know it's due to the prozac and is only temporary.

It would probably help to NOT focus on your symptoms and try to distract yourself in whatever ways workbest for you.

 

[downtongirl]

Does liquid solution hit the blood stream faster than pill form?

[Icandothis]

Hi

Welcome! I too have been on them for about 10 years now and want to be med free and after one unsuccessful attempt (didn't know there was such a thing as withdrawal ). I am tapering very slowly and understand the frustration of being told that you will "need" the meds and have trouble at times with desiring to be off yet having to do so slowly and still have to take when you just want to be done with them...

Oh and about the nasty liquid taste.....I bought gel capsules and fill them daily to take the medicine

Good luck

[ChessieCat]

Ok call this a fluke but 30 minutes after dosage I started feeling a little bit better...is this possible so quickly?

 

Hi DT girl,

 

When I did my original updose (Pristiq tablet - so takes longer to work) I noticed a big difference within about 4 hours.  I went from being very fuzzy headed and not able to type (I am a professional typist) to being able to think straight and type okay.  I was amazed at how quickly I felt improved.  CC

[brassmonkey]

Yes the liquid will get to the blood stream faster.  It doesn't have the fillers and buffering agents that tablets have and doesn't have to dissolve first, so it tends to hit with more blunt force.  This is one of the problems people have when switching from tablets to liquid.  A switch from tablet to liquid or liquid to tables should be treated like a dose change event and be given at least four days to settle out before evaluating symptoms.

[downtongirl]

Yes the liquid will get to the blood stream faster.  It doesn't have the fillers and buffering agents that tablets have and doesn't have to dissolve first, so it tends to hit with more blunt force.  This is one of the problems people have when switching from tablets to liquid.  A switch from tablet to liquid or liquid to tables should be treated like a dose change event and be given at least four days to settle out before evaluating symptoms.

Oh wow! Great information so the 10 mg dosage I took was like a higher dose to my body? I am going to try a 5 mg dose this morning and see how that goes. It was literally amazing that within 30 minutes my symptoms were improving...I plan to share this with my psychiatrist today. He had said if one dosage helped the symptoms it would be ground breaking and I am hoping he will let's take this information to the two local large university hospitals and use it to educate other people in the mental health field. I have to give credit also to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for helping me ...I prayed and asked him to let this work. I also want to thank everyone here for urging me to reinstate you were right. I slept 9 hours last night[

[downtongirl]

I have been reading an old blog post by someone who said they had a job at surviving antidepressants. This lady said she had given up the oral liquid tapering after 5 years of trying...her last bloops post was in 2013. I was just wondering if anyone knew if she was successful in discontinuation or if she did have to stay on the Medes. Her story was quite incredible. Do we have anyone here who has successfully gotten off using the liquid titration?

[bubble]

First of all, it's great news that you have experienced this improvement so shortly after reinstating.

 

But please be mindful of windows and waves pattern of healing. You were off the drug for over 2 months so I would expect stabilisation to take time.

 

Nobody works at SA because we are all volunteers here. People who are tapering or in other way healing from antidepressants and sharing our experience with others in the same predicament.

 

For an example of reclaiming once live back through slow tapering check Rhianon's partial success story.

 

The goal is not only to be drug free but to have as high quality of life at as small dose as possible.

 

Healing happens whenever we are stable.

[brassmonkey]

Not so much like a higher dose, more like it hits instead of pushes.  I think trying the 5mg would be better, but don't get caught up in changing doses every few day, that can really cause trouble.

 

It's not unheard of for people to feel the affects with in a few hours, but rare.  I swear that I felt better a couple of hours after taking my first ever dose of paxil, but most people write it off to the placebo affect, which can be very powerful.  Like I've mentioned it takes a minimum of four days for the drug to become steady state in the blood.  Until that happens symptoms could be up, down or sidewise.  Once the drug is steady state then the symptoms can start working their way out.

[downtongirl]

Just wondering if the liquid prozac hits the blood stream quicker does that mean it leaves the blood stream quicker....btw I took only 5 mg of prozac this morning...plan to do that until I am stabilized then will revaluate.

[AliG]

Hi Downtongirl, I think that is a wise choice. Please keep track of your symptoms in the next couple of weeks, and don't expect instant results.  It can take a minimum of 4 days to reach a steady blood state, but it might take longer. Stay calm & steady , breathe and don't panic.  I hope it goes well.

Ali

[brassmonkey]

No, once it's in the blood it will take the same amount of time as the tablet to work it's way out

[downtongirl]

Thanks Brassmonkey...I wonder with having taken a 10 mg dose last evening and then a 5 mg dose this morning what dosage my both thinks it has in it?

[downtongirl]

Another thought/question...I know everyone is different but the average therapeutic dose for panic/anxiety/depression for prozac is 20 mg.  Do you think at a 5 mg dosage I would be just keeping the withdrawals away or actually receiving any help with therapeutic.  I am trying to gage if I can stabilize at 5 mg if I am able to handle stress, anxiety, etc. with out going into a full panic attack will be due to my having developed some coping skills over the recent years or if it will be the prozac helping me?

[brassmonkey]

With all the variables involved even a blood chemist wouldn't be able to tell you.  That's one reason for waiting the full four days for the drug to become steady state in the blood.  Meaning that all the little variations, ups and downs have time to average out to one fairly even level.

 

That's the therapeutic dose as established by the manufacturer.  In reality the therapeutic dose is "the one that works for you".  It can be anywhere from 1mg on up.  According to the charts anything over 20mg doesn't add much benefit at all, but there is a lot of changes in the range from 1mg to 10mgs.

 

The coping strategies/techniques that you've learned over the years will definitely be helping, and will grow stronger each time you use them. While the drugs will be keeping the WD symptoms at bay.  

[downtongirl]

Ok...I was just reading the labels of the fish oil supplement I was taking made by natures bounty and it says 1200 mg but 360 mg of omega 3....does that mean that only 360 mg of each tablet is the type of fish oil that will help withdrawal?

[downtongirl]

Question...I see a lot of people taper fraction's of a milligram....how do you measure this out....I have been reading that when I do taper down I should taper down 10% of my last dosage which means if I am at 5 mg I would next go to 4.5 mg is that correct?  Then the next drop would be to 4.1???  I think I read somewhere that people use a digital scale?  Is that correct is that how you measure down to a fraction of a ml or mg?  Any suggestions as to where to get a good one if I need it?

[downtongirl]

I did use the search field but could not find a suggested schedule for tapering down 5m of liquid prozac...is there one on this site?  Thanks in advance?  I am just trying to get my ducks in a row for the day that I resume tapering...

[ChessieCat]

Hi DG

 

Your signature shows that you reinstated liquid Prozac.  Are you taking liquid or tablet?

 

The Tips for Tapering Prozac has all the instructions in Post #1.

 

CC

[ChessieCat]

Hi DG,

 

I've answered this in your Intro Topic.  CC

[downtongirl]

Thanks CC I am on the 5 mg liquid prozac

[ChessieCat]

Well you aren't going to need a digital scale.  That's for tablets/capsule beads.

 

Measuring Prozac brand liquid. Post #18

 

CC

[Petunia]

Once a nervous system becomes sensitized by withdrawal, many medications, supplements and in fact any substances which were previously well tolerated, can increase symptoms or cause paradoxical effects.

[downtongirl]

Gotcha..thanks...question CC I have read that caffeine is not good for anxiety and is not good during withdrawal...I drink a large diet coke I am guessing 32 oz every morning....I decided to not have it this morning and have been very tired today and sort of have this tight band feeling around my head...do you think that is due to the no diet coke an caffeine/aspartame withdrawal or just plain old antidepressant withdrawal?  Is it a good or bad idea to quit diet soda while tapering/withdrawing from antidepressants?