Gumboot: Citalopram from 2006 to 2015

[Fresh]

That weird - here's your post from yesterday (copied and pasted from email):

 

"At the moment I just get through and try to do what needs to be done. I am eating regularly and with an ok appetite despite occasional dry heaves. It's nearly time for bed now and I feel quite calm.

I have thought maybe I should just get up when I wake in the morning, even if it's a couple of hours early. Take the bull by the horns, rather than spend time turning over and dreading the new day...?"

 

I sometimes get up when I seem to have finished sleeping at around 5am (like today).  Usually after 2-3 hours , I go back to sleep for an hour or two.

 

The beauty of every day being like ground-hog day is that you have the opportunity to try different things.  Some will work , some won't.  You're not committing to anything long-term , just trying to figure out what's least unpleasant at the moment.

 

[Gumboot]

Thanks for rescuing the lost post!

 

I've dry heaved a few times today, unpleasant as it is it usually relieves the anxiety a bit.

[KarenB]

Coughing is good for relieving anxiety, as is singing, or doing anything which tenses your 'pooping' muscles.  I cough a lot when I'm upset.  It calms me down.  You can also do some belly-breathing, dip your face in cold water, gargle, do bends to stretch out your spine and open your chest, chanting...

 

So many options for on-the-spot anxiety remedies.

[Gumboot]

Saw the GP on Friday, he proposed going back up to 20mg. I said I'd prefer to stay with 10, but have since wondered...?

 

The anxiety's still with me. I keep thinking about death and feeling full of guilt for things I've done, or else feeling how sad and futile most of what we do in life is. I've had panic attacks in the past where I've lost all self-control and just screamed with fear and built-up tension, and it would almost be a relief to have one and be left with no reserves of emotion. But that's not happening. It just goes on and on through the day. What helps, again, seems to be getting on with some task that needs to be done, or just going outside into the open air.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Gumboot--  a reinstatement after a CT is going to take a bit of time to sort itself out.  It's only been four weeks or so, so things are just starting to get going.  I would stay on the 10mg for the foreseeable future and let time take it's course.  It will get better, and once you're stable we can start you on a nice slow taper that will do the job.

[Gumboot]

Well, yesterday around 11 am I had the worst spell of depersonalisation I've had in a long time and it was no relief at all... maybe if I'd lost control I would have felt relieved afterwards, but I absolutely didn't want to go through that. The strange thing is that until then I felt I was managing better that morning... and awful as it was, even the DP felt like a return of old habits of mind?

 

Not too good today. Feel I'm not eating enough in the daytime, or not things that could help. The other day I found I've lost a stone since the first week of January.

[AliG]

What do you want to do. ? Are you still reinstated at 10 mg ?

[Gumboot]

Hi. Yes, still on 10mg and I'm inclined to leave it at that for the time being. It's not as if I felt I was getting no better at all. But I do think maybe I could do more to make myself feel better, especially in the mornings. The weight loss worries me at times - I imagine it could be some organic illness, and get wound up - but it's not as if I couldn't afford to lose some.

[Gumboot]

Has anyone here ever tried CBD products for anxiety? I should say, anyone else, because last night I tried drinking some hemp tea made from cannabis sativa, bought from Amazon and perfectly legal. Anyway, about an hour later I settled down and had a very sound sleep - only a couple of hours, but I woke up thinking it must be the next morning. A couple of hours after that I went to bed for the night.

 

Woke up this morning feeling dreadful, with an anxiety that lasted throughout the mornjng and still hasn't left me completely. Also with a feeling of still being able to taste the tea. I phoned a drugs helpline and they said it was quite likely an after-effect.

[Fresh]

Sounds like it hasn't agreed with you. Give it some time to work it's way out of your system.

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5030-cannabis-thc-or-marijuana-to-ease-withdrawal-symptoms/page-1

[Gumboot]

Wish I'd seen that thread sooner! I don't feel too bad now, but for a while I really thought I'd poisoned myself.

[Fresh]

This site has pretty much everything . . . to search for anything use a google window and

search for "surviving antdepressants cannabis/whatever".

 

How are doing generally Gumboot? All on the up and up?

I'd like to see you taking megnesium and fish oil to assist your recovery.

Please see

Magnesium thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

Omega 3 thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

[Gumboot]

To be honest Fresh, I feel I've stalled, or am progressing very slowly. Even without the "benefit" of the tea I'm still waking up anxious, and that colours much of the day. I have wondered if I should go back up to 20 mg as the doctor advised.

 

I started taking fish oil last week and have thought about magnesium, not sure which would be the best way to take it?

[KarenB]

It's unlikely to be necessary to double your dose.  With your CNS now destabilised, that could really make things worse for you. 

 

I can never remember what's been said on which threads, so did you know that morning anxiety is very common in w/d, due to cortisol being higher at that time of the day?

 

Knowing it will eventually come right as your system comes right, do you think you could manage/wait your way through it?  Perhaps listening to a guided meditation on waking would help, or some other soothing thing.  Yoga? 

 

I see Fresh gave you the magnesium thread - there is a lot of good discussion about various options there.  Personally I take magnesium citrate in the evening, and have the occasional bath with epsom salts in it. 

[Fresh]

I agree with Karen Gumboot , doubling your dose could blow out your system (adverse reaction).

 

If you feel you need to increase , I'd inch my way up in 1 or 2 mg increments.

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2022-making-a-celexa-solution-yourself

You can make a solution and take 10mg of tablet plus 1 or 2mg in liquid.

It takes 4 days for a dose to reach a steady-state in your blood stream , so wait at least a week

before increasing further.

The lowest dose you can stabilize on the better in the long run.

 

When things were bad for me , I found focussing on a task helped. I remember cleaning glass

sliding doors one day , then all the mirrors and windows. I was worrying the whole time what

I'd do when I ran out of windows. I used to think of it as "making my akathisia work for me".

If there's any way to have a sense of humor about this , embrace it.

One day you'll be looking back on this period of your life in wonderment.

[Gumboot]

I've got some magnesium citrate now, so I'll give it a try. Also I have a visit on Wednesday afternoons from a regular support worker, and today we did a bit of yoga together. I was ok at first but then became more anxious again, and I think that was precisely because I was loosening up - I tend to get through anxiety by becoming physically rigid and eventually wearing myself out, which is probably not ideal. I'd like to try again.

[KarenB]

That sounds really positive Gumboot.  You can reassure yourself that you will remain safe even if you loosen up a bit.  A bit of self-talk can go a long way...

 

Remember to start low on the magnesium - you don't want to loosen up too much and get the runs .

[Gumboot]

Well... since Monday I've been back on 20mg. I really didn't have the confidence to do anything between that and 10, as my other attempts at self-medication haven't helped matters. (I still feel I can smell/taste that blasted tea.) Anyway, so far the only things that seems to be side-effects are a couple of patches of dry red skin on my face and a headache sometimes.

 

As for anxiety, we've had a genuine emergency here. I live with my mother, and yesterday she had a fall, hit her head and cut it badly - she was I think knocked out briefly, and there was a lot of blood. Thankfully there seems to be no underlying cause, she just slipped up - she's still in hospital today but should be home tomorrow all being well. In the meantime I'm here in the house by myself most of the time, including overnight and in the morning, and I find myself coping with things. I was awake in the night and have had a few spells of anxiety today, but overall I feel less panicky right now than I have for months...?

 

I can think of reasons why. The accident, dealing with an ambulance and paramedic, and the rest were a big discharge of adrenalin. (I've been told I showed no sign of panic when it was going on.) When I have a panic attack a lot of the fear is fear of making a scene, how people will react, so even if I'm feeling bad it usually feels less catastrophic when I'm alone.

 

We'll just have to see how I get on from here.

[KarenB]

Okay, let us know how things go.  Wow, sorry to hear about your mother's fall.  Interesting about feeling less panicky - but it's gotta be a good thing.  Maybe it's because when faced with a traumatic thing you realised you could cope after all?  Life is so unexpected sometimes...

[Gumboot]

This afternoon and early evening the anxiety came on again, lasted for three or four hours. I felt terribly alone and every noise from the road outside - kids yelling, car doors slamming shut - made me feel worse, like it could be the last straw. I feel all right now, at just after midnight.

 

Took my fourth dose at 20mg not long ago. I suppose the increase could be helping...???

[Fresh]

Please keep notes on your symptoms.  Only you know if symptoms like sensitivity to sounds have increased since updosing

or if it's the same or less annoying.

I'd still think about settling at 15mg as it's only been a few days.  It took me a long time to understand that more doesn't

necessarily mean you get better faster.

[Gumboot]

I think right now I'm in a state where it's difficult to say what could be drug-induced, stress-induced, or a mixture of the two. Best to just record what happens, maybe? Woke up this morning some time between six and seven in a severe panic, the pillowcase was actually stained where I'd been lying on it in a sweat. The anxiety stayed with me throughout the morning but lessened in the early afternoon, I was able to watch a TV show from start to finish instead of just looking at something for a few minutes at a time. I was expecting my mum to be back from hospital today and so was waiting for her to phone and say she'd been discharged but that hasn't happened, the afternoon went on and we were phoning back and forth and it became clear that she'd be in till tomorrow, and I grew more anxious again by early evening.  As it got dark I came into this room at the back of the house and have been here most of the time since, and have calmed down. It's been very quiet, back here you hardly hear anything from the road. (I should add that it's a quiet road usually.)

[ChessieCat]

My 2 cents worth.  It sounds like it is stress induced, but made worse by the drug/sensitised CNS.

 

BTW I wake up with damp bedclothes and nightie most mornings, but I AM in Australia and it IS summer

 

All in all, it actually sounds like you managed to get through the day okay considering what you were dealing with.  So give yourself a pat on the back.

[Gumboot]

A week and a half on... Mum came home on the Saturday. Since then she's been not too well, but equally not too bad considering her age and the knock she took. She's told me she doesn't remember what happened at all, she was in the bathroom and next thing was in the ambulance.

 

As for me, I'm still waking in a panic which intensifies as it gets light. Most days I stay in a near-panic for much of the day. I spend nearly all day in this room and dread getting up from my chair and doing anything. As evening comes on I start to feel better, I can lie down and get some undisturbed sleep for a couple of hours and round about this time (near midnight) I feel normal for a while. Until the morning....

 

Two weeks into 20mg and it doesn't really seem to be doing anything. I've switched to taking it in the morning instead of at night and have yet to notice any difference. Yet I did seem to improve within a few days of going back on 10.

[Fresh]

It's definitely good news that the recent changes haven't made things any worse for you.   Switching from p.m. to a.m. can be disruptive , so you're likely to continue to improve the longer things remain unchanged.

 

Very happy to hear your mum is out of the woods.   

[Gumboot]

Hope you're right, Fresh. Here's what happened today...

 

I woke up some time between six and seven, and without the visceral surge of anxiety that I've been having. But I didn't feel well. Something had changed, but I didn't feel I could trust my state of mind. I got up and was pretty much as jittery as usual.

 

Then at about half nine I had my worst panic attack for a long time, at least a year, so since well before I stopped the Citalopram. When it was all over I started to feel better, or at least relieved for the time being. There's a relief in the worst having happened and gone by, and again, it was a lot of adrenalin gone, in a kind of explosion.

 

But I really don't know what to expect next.

[KarenB]

My latest 'trick' to beat morning anxiety is to eat breakfast and then get on my bike.  If I go for a ride, when I come back home my anxiety levels are way down from what they were when I left.

 

Course that depends on how much exercise you can do right now...

 

I remember having that feeling of uncertainty, it's not pleasant. 

[Gumboot]

Talked to the GP yesterday and told him that I was still having a lot of anxiety. He's prescribed me Propranolol 40mg. From talking to him I thought they were to take as needed, but the label says three times a day? So far I've taken one, this afternoon. I've had a headache since, but haven't felt as anxious as I did earlier in the day - but I usually feel a bit better as the day goes on, also my support worker was here today and I find her a great help. I'm inclined to see how I feel in the morning.

 

The GP actually said that he would expect increased anxiety since I've still only been back on Citalopram 20mg for three weeks. He said that if there's no improvement in another two or three weeks we might think about increasing the dosage. I think it'd be time to say enough with the Citalopram...

[Fresh]

Yes , the doctors are very quick to pull out those script pads aren't they? That's how we all got in to trouble in the first place.

 

Please read our thread "Beta Blockers: Propranolol, Metopropol, Atenolol etc ..." here https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjMktv6rerLAhWiI6YKHX43Aw0QFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsurvivingantidepressants.org%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F999-beta-blockers-propranolol-metopropol-atenolol-etc%2F&usg=AFQjCNEVdlyK_lSTFMEtf-w6HrDRgGanrA&sig2=0jtRlsyCXeZNoswEWu8GSw&bvm=bv.118353311,d.dGY

At the end of the day , you are the one who'll need to decide if you want to become dependent on another medication.

 

What date did you increase to 20mg? How has that affected you?

[Gumboot]

Hi Fresh. I went back up to 20mg on March 8, and would have said it didn't seem to be making much difference, I don't feel that anything happens after taking it.

 

I have read the beta blockers thread, and don't like the idea of another medication that needs to be tapered off at some point. I'd much prefer to take it on a PRN basis than as a regular regime.

[Fresh]

Do you feel that overall you feel any better since increasing , or worse , or the same?

 

I've been wanting to ask you , did you have agoraphobia before you went on any meds. or has this developed since then?

How often have you been out of the house in the last week?

 

It would be wonderful if you can make some real headway during this period of adjustment. Any issues you don't deal with now will be there whether you go off medication or not.

[Gumboot]

I've had agoraphobia for a long time, well before I started on the Citalopram. I've only been out once this week, yesterday with my support worker.

 

There have been a couple of days where I thought the updose was having some good effect, but if so it doesn't seem to be consistent, not yet at least. Remember that I only stopped taking it because I felt it wasn't doing anything any more - so would that have changed?

 

The surgery have confirmed that the Propranolol is as needed, three times a day max.

[Gumboot]

Talked to the GP today, said I wasn't feeling better. He proposes replacing the Citalopram with Sertraline. Thoughts?

 

I've been on Amazon and ordered a measuring glass and oral syringe...

[Dan998]

It sounds like your doctor is trying to lead you down the path of higher doses and poly-drugging. He doesn't know how to fix you, so he'll just keep throwing drugs at you until something works.

 

Even though it seems like Citalopram has pooped-out on you and you're getting side effects without benefits, I think it's probably better to stay with the devil you know. Your brain has become accustomed to its presence and may protest if you suddenly take it away and substitute it for something else.

 

A switch might cause you to have both Citalopram withdrawal and Sertraline start-up effects at the same time.

[Gumboot]

I did suggest tapering off the Citalopram, and the doc was quite amenable but suggested doing it from 20 down to 10, then missing out a day. To be honest I don't know what to do. I'd be willing to try anything that might stop me waking up in dread an hour or two before daylight.

 

I told him the Propranalol wasn't helping much, and he said he wouldn't prescribe tranquillisers for anything but short-term use because they're so addictive.

[Dan998]

Yep, that sounds about right. My doc suggested the exact same thing. It's a terrible plan that will set you up for failure.

 

You might have to lie to your doctor, many of us have had to in order to get what we need.

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms

 

Does your doctor know you're tapering

 

I told mine that I wasn't ready to taper yet. She was more than happy to fill my 20mg prescription. I then started tapering by making an oral solution. Once I got down to 10mg I told her I wanted to taper and she gave me 10mg pills. I did the same again when I got down to 5mg. I've built up quite a stockpile now, so there's no danger of me running out if the doc decides not to refill my prescription (they sometimes do this at lower doses as they don't believe that small doses are significant).

 

How to make a liquid from tablets

 

You don't need your doctors approval to start tapering, you just need him/ her to prescribe the pills.