Vigor: Paxil WD hell

[Vonnegutjunky]

Hello vigor- just reading your story for the first time - I'm so happy to see how far you have come!!!

Keep up the good work!!

I too have been damaged by Paxil - 9 years on 10mg- like you I am hanging on!!

❤️

[Shep]

Hi, Vigor. I'm glad your reinstatement is working. Your last post has a lot of hope in it. 

 

Please let us know how you continue to do. 

[Vigor]

Thank you all for the encouragement and well wishes. I am doing the same feeling pretty good. I get this complete burst of motivation sometimes out of the blue after not having it for awhile. I cleaned my whole room top to bottom moving furniture and everything, a little excessive but it feels good. It is just an unfamiliar feeling after feeling like I was going through the motions with life when on my full dose of Paxil. I am still on 5mg I could drop now to 4.5mg but I am holding for 2.5 months just to give my body some time to adjust. More of a precaution than a hold, I want to give my nervous system a gentle touch here. 

 

Being able to sleep again is the best thing, you don't know how much you need it until insomnia bangs on your door. My weight is back up to 175 after I lost about 25 pounds in that acute withdrawal phase, being 6 foot 1 I looked rail skinny. I have also radically changed my diet. I don't eat dairy, I don't drink caffeine, the only sugar I intake is from a glass of orange juice a day. I drink a gallon of water a day, and get outside when its nice out. I think withdrawal has some blessings to it, because we do things to take care of ourselves we would have never done before. I have also started studying for my IT certificates as well. So all in all I am doing the best I can. I thank everyone here that initially answered my first post here. I was in a very dark place and felt really alone. This community is really special because everyone is going though their own stuff, w/d related and life in general but you all help those in need. 

 

That's really all I have for now, I will update again later.

[Shep]

Thank you for the update, Vigor. That is a beautiful post. It sounds like you're going to come out of this much stronger than you came in, and that's always good to hear.

 

Holding while you work on your diet and study for your certificates sounds like a great plan. You have so much to look forward to as you become drug free.  

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[SkyBlue]

Vigor, I saw your signature on your post on Shep's forum and love it: One thing that helps me is to see your withdrawal process as your own personal journey. Do not internalize someone else's withdrawal as your own.  Such important words. I know I am sometimes overwhelmed by reading about others' difficult withdrawal, but I thrive on the connection and community here. So like many things, it is a balance. 

 

Congratulations on your bursts of energy and big congratulations on doing a 2.5 month hold. I get impatient sometimes, but the holds are one of the best things for us. 

[Vigor]

Hey everyone,

 

I wanted to update so I keep everyone in the loop. I am doing good still but some things came up. I have to attend classes to get my GED reinstated, so basically learning high school all over again. I got my GED 8 years ago but it was done through an online course. In NY state where I live that is not accepted anymore. Now that won't affect me studying for my IT certifications but it could with future employment. So I am putting my 5mg hold until November which will be 5 months. I don't want to do anything to get my system out of wack. So I am following the advice given here and holding in stressful situations. Thanks again everyone for the support.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Vigor,

 

"So I am putting my 5mg hold until November which will be 5 months. I don't want to do anything to get my system out of wack. So I am following the advice given here and holding in stressful situations."

 

Excellent!!!  It's not race.

[Shep]

You are doing remarkable, Vigor. Getting on with your education while going through withdrawal is indeed admirable. Holding sounds like a wise and mindful plan. 

[Vigor]

Hey everyone,

 

Bad news but still good news. I have decided to updose to 6mg and do a long hold from there. I got in a fight with a family member, and it just brought out symptoms. Insomnia came back and absolute panic. I won't get a defeatist attitude I will just see this as part of the game. Next drop I do after the long hold will be to 5.5mg. I will update at a later date and tell you how I am doing.

 

Can I ask is an updose to 6mg enough? I think going any higher could throw off whatever adaptation my brain and nervous system have done already.

[Shep]

Hi, Vigor.

 

I'm not familiar enough with Paxil to give you the best answer, so I've asked the other mods to weigh in. 

 

Please update your signature, as it still has your reinstatement at 10 mg.

 

Please look over your mindfulness and other coping skills toolkit. These family episodes are ways to practice what you're learning. 

 

I hope things settle down soon so you can study. Sending healing vibes your way. 

[Vigor]

Updated Shep, thank you for your help.

 

I want to take this much slower, but I would like the input of what dosage to stay at. I will probably stay on that dosage for 6-7 months and then never go over the 10% rate again. The thing is I was doing great until this blow up, and like all family drama over something very stupid. But that is life.

[SquirrellyGirl]

These things happen, Vigor.  In future, perhaps allow yourself more time to settle back down, using the self-care methods, because as quickly as stress can bring up withdrawal, the symptoms can settle again with some gentleness with yourself.

 

Hugs!

SG

[brassmonkey]

Stressful incidents are greatly amplified when in WD.  Instead of being able to brush them off in a few hours it can take days to calm ones self back down again and then a few more days to get over the "hangover" that it all caused. Updosing from 5mg to 6mg is a pretty drastic move (20%) and quite possibly will cause an increase in symptoms.  The biggest problem with updosing because of a stressful situation is that the updose won't have time to take effect until well after the situation would have calmed of its own accord.  Remember it takes a minimum of 4 days for the drug to become steady state in the blood and then it can take several weeks to several months for the body to recognize and adjust to the new dose, and you can't be sure what form that adjustment will take.

 

It sounds like things were going pretty well before the family incident, and I think any unplaned change in dosage might really upset your stability.  I would treat your one day updose as a blip that will take a week or so to equalize out, use all the coping tools I have to settle the stress from the incident, loose myself in my studies and go on with the original plan to hold at 5mg for the next few months.

[nz11]

Stressful incidents are greatly amplified when in WD.  Instead of being able to brush them off in a few hours it can take days to calm ones self back down again and then a few more days to get over the "hangover" that it all caused.

This is exactly how it is.

It would take me days to settle back down. I was always scared it wouldnt but it did. Dont panic. Just AAF.

 

I totally agree with Brassmonkey.

 

As time went on i would get into a stressful situation and brace myself for the complete cognitive implosion which would be about to occur but be incredibly surprised cos it didnt occur or was totally minimal and manageable.

It was a sign my cns was healing.

[chrona]

i want to say that the intense feelings of guilt, regret, self-loathing, self-condemnation, embarrassment, humiliation, grief, fury etc etc etc are part of the package of coming off the drug.   i am in my sixties now and i know what this body/mind cycles through by this stage.   IT IS A CHEMICAL REACTION OF THE BRAIN. 

it feels very real ,  i am going through it now, i have been on this stuff 4 years.  i know meditation, which i highly highly recommend,  whatever kind, whatever religion,  it makes no difference.  but just keep telling yourself  IT'S A CHEMICAL REACTION IN THE BRAIN.   it's true from the bottom of my heart i know this to be true.   when you are there, tell yourself you do not have to believe these thoughts.  when you are crying for hours,  tell yourself to get up, get out and change the environment.  believe me.   the thoughts and feelings come back,  you don't have to buy into them.  i know it's tempting.  i do it too. 

[chrona]

ahhh, i see you are through it already.  i did not want to read all your response and get distracted.  sorry.

[Shep]

Hi, Vigor.

 

What BrassMonkey wrote is so very true - "Stressful incidents are greatly amplified when in WD."

 

A lot of this is because we're dealing with something called "neuro emotions". I don't know what happened with your family situation, but even if you were in the right and your family member was out of line, we don't have the ability to simply brush off this kind of thing in withdrawal. We are too sensitive, too wounded. This thread may explain more about how our ability to cope is simply out of whack right now: 

 

Neuro Emotions

 

And here are a couple of links that might help, as you've mentioned regretting going on an AD years ago (something all of us on this forum can relate to). Being around supportive but sometimes critical family members may be intensifying those emotions, as no one knows your past as much as your own family. 

 

Blaming yourself for mistakes? Try this.
 
Shame, guilt, and self-criticism

 

Sometimes just knowing why we are so vulnerable to these types of repetitive thoughts can help. 

 

And you may find other forms of non-drug coping skills that help in this link:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

You've already shown a lot of interest and confidence in learning all you can to handle your life off of drugs. And these family stressors are good ways to practice,  so as odd as this sounds, if you can "welcome" this incident as something that is making you stronger, perhaps it's enough of a re-frame to let you stay on your current dose.

 

What you're learning now is the real takeaway for you to be able to handle school and then a career, being able to navigate your way through stress in ways other people simply can't.  And this is very powerful insight and knowledge. In fact, I have a few online friends from my benzo board days who have mostly healed now and say their "transformation" from withdrawal was so dramatic, they don't regret anything about their lives. 

 

Also, have you had your thyroid checked to make sure your thyroid med is still in range? Just a thought, as that was a major concern earlier in your thread. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way, Vigor. Please let us know what you decide to do and what your symptoms are. 

 

 

[JanCarol]

Hey Vigor - I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through.  

 

I remember when I was first prescribed Paxil, the prescribing doc (a DO!) told me it was like "baby prozac."  Well, I didn't last 3 days on it, and I'm so glad I stepped off that squirrel-wheel before it became deeply ingrained.

 

Hey - it may not seem like much - but you took 5 mg from Feb 6 - Feb 20, when you updosed to 20 mg.

 

Could you please indicate this in your signature?

 

Thanks.  I'm still reading.

 

JanCarol

[JanCarol]

Hey Vigor - I agree - please keep your signature current, so we know what is up with you.

 

I'm going to throw a ball in from left field.

 

You are 29 years old.

 

(warning, this is astrology.  I'm not asking you to believe, just consider)  When you are born, Saturn is in a certain place on your chart.  Saturn has a 28-30 year cycle.  When Saturn returns to that place on your birth chart, between the ages of 28 and 30 your old patterns that you have established are broken down, and it is time to rebuild yourself in the image that you want for the next 30 years of your life.

 

While I'm not a huge believer in all the astrology stuff - this seems to be consistent with human development.  Nearly everyone I know went through a huge formative experience between the age of 28 and 30, when old beliefs and structures are broken, destroyed in order to make room for new development.

 

I think you have picked an excellent time to look to a drug free future (however long it takes!).  I admire your articulate wisdom and perspective - and that gives me great hope for your recovery as well.  People who can express themselves when in distress seem to survive it better.  

 

I think you've got the right attitude as far as slow tapers and holds.  I'm glad you got here when you did.  It does get better.  You can get better.

 

So did you decide to go back to 5?  Or are you staying with 6?  How is that going for you? 

 

Again, please update your signature, so we can know at-a-glance.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

JanCarol

[Vigor]

Wow, thank you all for the responses. I will start with Jan's question I guess. In my journal that I have Jan when I was in acute withdrawal I took the best notes that I could. My notes now are much better, I write everyday how I am feeling multiple times a day. I take my dosage everyday at 4pm, just the time I picked. I did find out some information when I was given my script for Prozac for the stupid 3 week taper. That started on 8/26/15 and ended on 9/16/15 it then took me 3 months to feel the effects of WD. I am guessing that was due to the Prozac and the longer half life. My two previous cold turkeys were felt within a month at most. I made an account here late December and was just lurking basically, but the symptoms were escalating. That is when I decided to reinstate. I took 5mg's for a few days then 1mg for a few days and then I went to 10mgs. That is the best I can find out, my notes in that early phase are very scattered. I never updosed to 20mgs though. On the dosage of 10mg I immediately felt better within a week. I stayed on that dosage for a month then started my taper. 

 

My last drop was a 16.7 percent drop from 6-5 mg that is why I was doing my 5 month hold. I felt fine but I wanted to let things balance out and then do no more than a 10 percent rate from there. And never drop sooner than 4-6 weeks. I could not do things over again, but I would do it the right way from here on out. Then the argument happened and I could feel things just building. I took myself out of the situation and just breathed in my personal space. I knew for a fact that someone in my situation does not need this kind of thing. But things built and built. I tried to go to sleep around 1 am, and my heart started jack hammering. Mood got very dark, just could not sleep. Next day no appetite, thank god no suicidal ideation followed. I was awake from then for about 40 hours. I just fell asleep for 10 hours and woke up. 

 

Things are settling down, this is just a very isolating experience. And I am trying to stay in the head space that I am learning something from all of this. That there is a greater plan at work here for all of us going through psych drug withdrawal. We are the warriors that people will look back on and see we survived but also showed the world how dangerous these drugs are. I don't usually talk about personal/spiritual beliefs but I have a mindset that there is something powerful at work here in this universe more than any religion or scientist can fathom. I will leave it at that, but it helps me accept this situation, because acceptance is very hard for me.

 

So Jan I hope that is enough information, it is the best I have. You have to see my early journal notes, the text looks like back alley graffiti. From the beginning to where I am at now my writing is vastly different and more organized.

 

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Brass thank you so much for coming on here. I have read your posts on other threads and enjoy them very much. I will really think about what you are saying. But I don't know if I will stay at the 6mg or go back to 5mg at the moment. I am really just thinking things over in my mind. I value your input very much, but I am just thinking of what is the best for me.

 

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nz11 thanks for chiming in as well, I am happy to hear your perspective because I love what you do on this forum. Helping people but exposing the fraud the pharmaceutical companies have done. Fighting on two fronts. 

 

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Shep my friend thank you. I agree like always with everything you said. I will check out those links later today. I have read the neuro emotions one before and agree. My thyroid is in range, I remember the heart jack hammering in my early posts here. I thought it was related to my thyroid meds, but no it was withdrawal. On my reinstatement to 10mg that died down within days. I get bloodwork every 3 months, I am actually due to get it this week. But I have not had a dosage change in 2 years.

 

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Chrona, thank you for commenting on here and telling me your advice. I think I was just very thrown off, because I had not taken on a situation like that on in awhile. And also I acted on the bait, it was like the family member in question wanted a fight. I have learned from this and I will not let it happen again. 

 

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So right now I am doing better. I am going to take a shower, eat and get outside for a bit. Thank you all for the responses, it means so much to me. Also I turned 30 in March, I hope that does not throw off my astrology signs Jan  . 

 

I may be taking a break from the forum for a bit, but will post if anything urgent comes up. I just need a computer break for awhile. I did that after my acute withdrawal phase when I went back on 10mg. I just feel better when I am not living in withdrawal and think about other things. 

 

Thanks again,

[JanCarol]

Hey Vigor - I just noticed, you said:

 

My thyroid is in range

 

Is your doctor testing TSH only?  That is "standard of care," and as usual, incomplete.

 

This is a pituitary measurement, and there is great controversy in the thyroid community as to whether or not that is an effective measurement of how well your thyroid is working.  It is one indicator, but not always the whole picture.  Additionally, the drugs can fudge the TSH, giving false readings - it's unclear to me whether they are just raising the indicator, or if it is a marker for more serious symptoms (I'm suspecting the latter).

 

You can learn more about thyroid testing here:http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1593-thyroid-symptoms-hypothyroid-hashimotos/

 

I know you're not on forum now, but I thought you might want to learn a bit about this for your next doc visit.

[Vigor]

Thought I would stop in for an update. I am 10 days on 6mg everything calmed down. I honestly don't believe it was due to the updose. I think it was just a settling after that situation. And I have learned my lesson not to engage in the family squabbles anymore. Next time I will follow the advice here and just let things cool down. It is just a scary feeling when things start ramping up again. But I know for a fact it was due to the fight. I am going to stay on this dosage for a bit. I am stable now, but I want to give my body some rest here. Next drop will be to 5.5mg which is less than 10%. I will probably do that in late December. Christmas is not a stressful thing around here, so it's no big deal. We don't go crazy around the holidays. But again, I go by the way I feel not the calendar.

 

I am still doing my break thing, but I check once in awhile and still do pm's regularly. So if you need to reach me I'm here. And of course if I see someone struggling on the forum, I do the best I can to help. I will keep you all updated with future dose changes. 

 

Thank you again for all the support.

[Shep]

Vigor, it sounds like this is a real learning process for you, not just in how to taper, but in how to live. Leaning when and where to engage and when to become The Observer is the first step in a kind of mindfulness practice that becomes a life practice. 

 

I'm glad things have settled down and you're feeling better.

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

@Vigor, how are you?