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grandmaD

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We hit the post button at the same time.

Just read your last post. Gosh I'm so sorry you are suffering so much lately!

 

I had bad experience with pain killer ( severe tension headache, the same type I was put on this poison). Vitamin D (severe head pain and ear pain, different from the original tension headache), vitamin B ( the most weird, off, sick feeling overall, don't know how to describe), megnesium (muscle twitch), only one tablet of each caused immediate reaction. So I'm off everything for the past years.

 

I wonder if it's possible you can try to reduce/ stop other meds/ supplements see how you feel.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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grandmaD, thank you for your 5-year review in Frustrated with length of taper left to go!

I am so sorry you're still having such problems tapering. It's not you, it's paroxetine.

You might just consider stopping at 3.5mg for a good while. There's no law that you must go to zero, ever. Take a vacation from tapering, don't worry about it (but be very steady with your dosing), take care of other things in your life.

The alternative to go off faster, which I know you are aware is risky, is a switch to Prozac.
 

What other drugs are you taking now?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Thanks for your reply LA.  I guess my brain just wants to get off this horrid trip and ditch the drug and I am forever trying to figure out how to do it - usually to no avail!  However, I do think it helps to get it out of inside my head onto paper/computer and sort it out and get others' input. 

 

I have been wondering lately whether these latest issues are because the drug has pooped out. I don't know why but I constantly struggle with the thought to CT and every time I work thru this idea, it is just not feasible because my graphs show how I get worse after a taper, level out and then see some improvement.  That would indicate that there is something about the drug still working.  Besides, I think they say even with poop out not to CT. 

 

You have suggested that what I am experiencing now is w/d so I will go with that for now.  Also with the trip coming up, I am not going to change anything until I get back and then I hope to re-think it all so in the meantime, trying to turn off my stupid brain!

 

As for hoping I could do this faster - that's what I thought when I got down to 5mg in 2013!!!  I truly thought I'd be off by now but instead I had to do a 6 month hold in 2014 and then again 2015.  I have even considered I might have to do that again this year, but hate the thought of taking more time.... and so on it goes ....

 

As for what things improve each taper and what gets worse, I'll have to check my journal so will get back to you on that one.  Thanks again for being there for me, you are such a blessing.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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grandmaD, thank you for your 5-year review in Frustrated with length of taper left to go!

 

I am so sorry you're still having such problems tapering. It's not you, it's paroxetine.

 

You might just consider stopping at 3.5mg for a good while. There's no law that you must go to zero, ever. Take a vacation from tapering, don't worry about it (but be very steady with your dosing), take care of other things in your life.

 

The alternative to go off faster, which I know you are aware is risky, is a switch to Prozac.

 

What other drugs are you taking now?

Thanks Alto for your help.  I guess my brain is going round and round and I have now heard you say it is the paxil and not me - in fact my next question was whether anxiety can make your brain come up with suggestions and ideas and then refute them and argue them and so and so on!  It is crazy.

 

I did ask this question at the post above, so don't answer again if you answered it there - but surely - at SUCH A LOW DOSE and after 21 years wouldn't it have pooped out by now and not be active any longer?

 

LA prompted me to go back to my journal to see what improvements or no were when I tapered.  I will post them tomorrow, done enough for today, but what I saw told me that many of them were not back to as good as or better than when I began the taper which tells my logic that I should be tapering longer before dropping again.  I also looked at the previous 2 6 month holds to see what happened.  Will talk about that tomorrow.

 

For now, I will not taper until I get back from our trip.  We don't leave for another a month so by then, hopefully I might be feeling better.  I will then consider your suggestions which I had already considered also before but at the moment probably another 6 month hold might be in order (gritting my teeth)! lol

 

Thanks again for your advice, Just needed some back up, something to tell myself "this is what I thought and this is what others agree I should do also."  The jury has the majority vote!  I haven't even ruled out the Prozac because if things don't improve after that hold, I will have to seriously consider that option.  I gather it is much easier to get off Prozac but can you tell me that if I switch I won't still get w/d symptoms from CT the paxil?

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Alto, forgot to say about other drugs:  Nothing on a regular daily basis

Around weekly - 2 night mercyndol (codeine and doxylamine succinate, a muscle relaxant) which gives me 1 good night sleep and the next day calm with easing of severe leg pain/burning from muscle cramping.

Every now and then instead of the NM I might take 1/4 serapax twice a night but this seems to ramp up the anxiety sky high ensuing days.  I bought doxlamine succinate and took it on its own - just 1/4 and it had the same effect so I haven't taken that for a long time.

 

Due to recent severe back spasm and muscle cramping everywhere, I have been taking codeine day 1 with a strong anti-inflammatory (voltaren)

next day just ibuprofen and panadol

today just panadol and tomorrow not planning to take anything.

 

Vit. c daily seems okay

Digestive enzymes seem to be helping with belly and guts aches - forgot to take it last night at dinner and was nauseas and dry retching resulted in  pulling a muscle again in my back and sternum area.

Blackmore's "Reme-D" for migraines capsules - contain vit. B and feverfew.  Seen HUGE improvement since started these over 2 years ago for headaches and migraines.

Just started introducing 1/4 tsp fish oil weekly (now I  am on the digestive capsules I might be able to tolerate that better)

 

Started a multi vit. B in Feb. weekly.   I posted about the fact that I think vit. B may be causing the recent cramps and spasms because I discovered it has magnesium in it, but  i can't find that post now.  I got it gradually up to every 4 days and that's when the spasms and cramps got worse so I have cut it out altogether because there is also vit. B in the  Reme-D but been taking okay for several years now.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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We hit the post button at the same time.

Just read your last post. Gosh I'm so sorry you are suffering so much lately!

 

I had bad experience with pain killer ( severe tension headache, the same type I was put on this poison). Vitamin D (severe head pain and ear pain, different from the original tension headache), vitamin B ( the most weird, off, sick feeling overall, don't know how to describe), megnesium (muscle twitch), only one tablet of each caused immediate reaction. So I'm off everything for the past years.

 

I wonder if it's possible you can try to reduce/ stop other meds/ supplements see how you feel.

Thanks LA for your post!  You can say that again, things are bad enough but when things get even worse, I don't cope very well!

 

You have to wonder with all these other meds.  Interesting about your experience with painkillers - I noticed a dull headache yesterday and today which could be from the Panadol and Ibuprofen I have been on.  Anyway, planning to stop it tomorrow, in fact, won't take any more today now!  I have also stopped completely the vit. B.  Easy enough to see if the muscle problems improve that it would be the magnesium in it causing it.

 

 

Thanks again for you help.  I must drop by your way as soon as I get through all this mess!  I hope you are coping okay in the meantime.  Thank goodness we have this forum, where would we be without it?????  I hate to think.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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GrandmaD,

 

Don't worry about dropping by my thread for now. You need the energy and time to take care yourself more. I decided to just close my eyes and endure whatever the poison gave me and keep moving. Being super analytical always in my life, I am giving up analyzing, only to listen to my body. I will only updatr periodically for major milestones or when I feel too desparete.

 

I hope you can take a break from thinking so hard for a while and prepare and think about the trip, like places you want to visit, food to eat, etc. I'm looking forward to hearing a fun experience from you when you are back.

 

Lots Hugs,

Lex

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Bless you LA for your compassion!  yes, you are right, it is time to stop and take a break!  I think I will get out my jig saw puzzle and distract myself with that.  In the meantime, I did those results you asked about and will post them.  I was glad I did it because it showed me that things were getting worse and worse and intead of holding (which is the advice I would give others!) I dropped a week earlier.  As for whatever else the results show, I am not going to worry about if side effects or w/d.  Probably doesn't matter in the long run!  What I have to accept is that I have to stop and hold again and consider other alternatives like staying at 3.5 or switching when I get back. 

 

LA, here is the list of things you asked about.  I can see that many of the symptoms got worse with the drop but did improve by the end of the drop.  Those marked * are the ones that were as good as or better than when I began the taper.

 

I have read that it is a good idea not to drop until symptoms are as good as or better than at the start of the taper, however it gets confusing when you have so many symptoms and they don’t all respond the same. 

 

I’m not sure what all this means in relation to w/d symptoms or side effects.  What do you think?  After seeing the ones that have got worse at the end of the taper, they are all anxiety related, I think.

 

Having done this – which was a good idea – thanks LA! – I can see I probably should have kept tapering until I saw an improvement in all those ones that were getting worse and worse and more worse!  Of course, if I was giving someone ELSE advice, that’s what I would tell them!

 

Things that improved at the end of the last taper

*Indigestion got worse then improved

*Tired & slow got worse then improved

*Head banging sensation/jolts went from good to worse to improved

*Headaches went from worst to improved

*Rapid pulse from worse to more worse then to improved

*Sore heads went from worse to improved

Head vibrations got worse then improved

Head pressure got worse then improved

Things that got worse at the end of last taper

Insomnia got worse

Bad days from good to worse

Vibrations from worse to more worse to even more worse

Palpitations got worse, more worse and even more worse

Anxiety from worse to more worse to even more worse

Breathlessness from worse to more worse to more worse

 

I don’t like it, but it seems quite obvious now that I shouldn’t consider going faster or CT!  I have to accept it and do what is right and best for myself.  It is almost like there are 2 of me – one wants to do the sensible thing and the other one wants to make it all happen faster!

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Marvelous job done GrandmaD sorting things out in such a clear order! It amazes me how well everyone's brain works by reading their posts!

 

It's quite clear now that long hold does do good to majority of your symptoms. yeah, it might worth trying if even longer hold will do much better giving those getting worse are tolerable.

 

So what is your plan for the trip? When do you leave and how long will it be? I used to take couple solo long trips every year and love driving in the wild nature taking constant stops for pictures along the road. I even did two shorter ones this year in midst of all the pain and dizziness. The last one I drove 11 hours the last day back home, still was energetic enough to use the gym late night. My friends concluded all my symptoms are in my mind only and suggest me to take month long trips see how it goes.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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This week has been horrendous, with muscle aching, cramps and spasms.  Stiff neck, slipped disc lumbar region, and cramp/spasms around ribcage/lungs, around tea time. 

Insomnia waking every hour resulted in a big headache following day all day

Nausea again after being gone for almost 2 years

Dry retching caused intense spasming and pain around my ribcage until the next day.

Dizzy spells, weak and shakey and extremely tired and strengthless.

At bedtime severe and painful and very frightening spasms around ribcage.   Didn’t want to vomit due to previous episode resulting in aching until next day.  Severe pain lasted 5 to 15mins, settled after 15mins and then sat up for about an hour in bed.   

Extreme palpitations/fear bedtime and around 2am-4am

Feeling in shock/cold/dizzy/shakey 

 

This last week was probably the icing on the cake to make sure I slowed down.  I did sense I was deteriorating for the last 5 weeks and I also did think that I should stop at the last taper as another pattern was evolving.  First 6 month hold after going downhill something awful was June 2014 and the next 6 month hold was May 2015 after the same thing happening.  It was happening again this year in June/July but instead of deciding to hold I actually tapered at 7 weeks twice in the hope I could go faster and get off quicker.  That was before I worked out it was going to take another 7 years to get off!  I thought I’d be off by end this year! 

 

Anyway, I am now very convinced that I must now stay put, even stay at this dose forever.  My hope is to crawl back out of this hole, stabilize and hopefully regain some sense of normality and go caravanning and travel and enjoy what life I have left.  There’s that part of me that hates that idea, but another part of me is getting used to idea I might regain my health once I stabilize and do something pleasurable.  I definitely couldn’t keep going like I have been for another 7 years, I just was not coping and had withdrawn from life, family and friends as a result.    

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Marvelous job done GrandmaD sorting things out in such a clear order! It amazes me how well everyone's brain works by reading their posts!

 

It's quite clear now that long hold does do good to majority of your symptoms. yeah, it might worth trying if even longer hold will do much better giving those getting worse are tolerable.

 

So what is your plan for the trip? When do you leave and how long will it be? I used to take couple solo long trips every year and love driving in the wild nature taking constant stops for pictures along the road. I even did two shorter ones this year in midst of all the pain and dizziness. The last one I drove 11 hours the last day back home, still was energetic enough to use the gym late night. My friends concluded all my symptoms are in my mind only and suggest me to take month long trips see how it goes.

Thanks La!  My brains is heaps better that's for sure, but still not quite right at times!

 

We leave at the end of August for 3 weeks and plant to take a week to travel down the east coast of Tassie, then stay with friends for a week in Hobart and then spend a week coming back through the middle, back to the top and over to the north west side.    I hope you can take some more trips yourself, about the only thing now that brings pleasure is nature and scenery.  I love to take photos also.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Oh, GrandmaD, my heart aches for your suffering! Damn these poisons!! It made me very angry again so many innocent lives were destroyed and soul tortured by this most unhuman crime!

 

Maybe just take a long break not even thinking about the taper, only focus on taking care and feeling better. It takes tons of energy analyzing constantly.

 

Just hang in, the wave will subside and You will feel better. even people CTed eventually heal over time.

 

Big bear hugs,

Lex

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Gran, I am so, so sorry you going through this right now. :( I wish I knew of something that would make it better. I hate these freaking drugs. But if it's something you say you go through every year then you also know it will get better eventually. I also seem to get waves in the fall/winter months. Nothing wrong with doing a long hold or taking more time in between drops to try and enjoy life as much as you can. If you find you can get good and stable then there's nothing wrong with staying on this dose indefinitely either. You know I will support you whatever you do. I'm thinking of you and will pray for you. <3

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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I need some help and advice as to what to do now.  Just started week 4 of taper and planning on holding at this dose for a long time, as I am not coping and my body seems to be deteriorating.  I have made a doctors appointment and can’t get in for a week.  Today I am again weak and shakey with mild chest pain.  Nausea has gone, so perhaps that was attributed to the digestive enzymes and vit. B which I have stopped.

 

A severe muscle spasm in lower back improved after a week, but then yesterday hit with another one in same place, leaving me unable to move again.  Last night 2 Night Mercyndol at bedtime as it contains a muscle relaxant.  Has been a week since I took 2x NM.

 

If I knew why this is happening, I could treat it, right?

I am just astounded that muscle spasms have returned and not sure why.  I know I have lost a lot of muscle with weight loss and become a lot weaker. 

 

Could it just be w/d – could the active ingredient in low dose just not be effective at all anymore causing w/d symptom?

 

I noticed before both spasms, I had very strong palpitations and on this occasions they were all night long and next day, which made me think adrenalin causing a chain reaction?

 

Today I have taken 2 Voltaren (only for short term use – 3 days) an anti-inflammatory and1 x codeine for pain.

 

I am at my wits end as to what to take.  I have doxylamine succinate tabs here which are a muscle relaxant, but the side effects are tight chest, difficulty breathing, fast heartbeat and palpitations and I already have all these things on a daily basis, so I have not taken it on its own for a long time, but it is in the Night Mercyndol which I take.

 

I have Alepam (Serapax) which is meant to calm down anxiety, but it is only to be used for 3 days and now and then, not regularly.  I get by on ¼ tablet at a time and no more than twice a day (1/2 total.)  Besides that, after taking it, I notice the anxiety ramps up to high again.  So I don’t think that’s the answer either.

 

I looked again at my notes on Melatonin, but again, side effects are everything I already have, including insomnia, anxiety, headaches, abdominal pain, indigestion, chest pain.

 

Does anyone know about using anti-histamine on a regular basis?  I read that excessive histamine causes too much adrenalin.  I wonder if that is my “safest” option.

 

I have also considered seriously switching to Prozac but no-one has answered my question: If I stop Paxil, will the w/d get worse?  Also, has anyone my age and has been on Paxil over 20 years and switched successfully?

 

Thanks LA and Ladybug for your posts and encouragement, you are both a blessing and I continue to pray for you both also.  I will get back to you later  x

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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  • Moderator Emeritus

grandmaD - I want you to know that our wonderful ChessieCat has seen your post and let the moderators know about your situation and your questions.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Gran, I just wanted to say in regards to the melatonin I have taken it nightly for almost 6 years and never noticed any of those side effects. I'm pretty sensitive to stuff too, I know Valerian makes me very depressed and weepy the next day. I'm currently tapering melatonin with 25% drops every 6+ weeks and haven't noticed any WD so far either You would be taking it for insomnia though right? Since the half life is super short I think it works more to get you to sleep rather than to keep you asleep. Although they do have time-released melatonin too I think.

 

As for the Prozac switch, for some reason I have it in my head that people have better success with a switch when at lower doses and I think that is from a few experiences I saw on PP. I wish I knew for sure! I would love to try it myself if it meant being able to get off sooner.

 

You mentioned something about the spasms returning. Is this something you have dealt with before? Were they one of the symptoms you were having when going through those yearly waves?

 

Thinking of you sending you ((HUGS)).

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Scallywag, thanks!

 

Thanks Ladybug for your reply already!  Were you up in the middle of the night????  That is good to know about the Melatoniin and that you have none of those side effects.  Do you have any of those symptoms from w/d I mentioned?  I realise that side effects don't always effect all people with all of them, but it is scarey considering I already have them.  When I last spoke to Dr. about it, he seemed to agree to steer clear.  Well, no, I wasn't thinking of taking it for sleep - I am putting up with the insomnia.  I was thinking about the spasms thinking it might calm my body down - isn't it for anxiety too or just insomnia?  I noticed palpitations were very strong all night and the next day just before that spasm yesterday so I put it all down to adrenalin fuelled anxiety.

 

That is interesting what you recall about Prozac, especially at lower levels, I will certainly keep that in mind.

 

  • Well, severe lower back muscle spasms was why I was put on Paxil and I was bed-ridden at the time with them.
  • In 2010 when I did a 10% taper, I had a lot of spasms in my back and legs
  • Over the next years they came and went and became more and more infrequent until I would even get a spasm - go into panic mode (because usually I couldn't move and had to be in bed a few days and on the couch after that) - and find nothing happened after it!  No pain, no ache, no immobility, etc. it was WEIRD!
  • The last bad spasm was maybe a year ago and I was laid up for a couple of days.

I will get back to you about spasms at the 6 month holds, but from the top of my head, they were not a problem or the least of my problems.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Hi GrandmaD

 

I always read your thread because I have had similar WD symtoms and still am. I am on 6.3 mg of Paroxetine now and also doing really small reductions. My last reduction was 6% and a month later I am also experiencing very bad muscle spasms and pain in back and my legs. In the morning when I get up I can hardly walk but the it does seem to ease slighly during the day. I also had this in the beginning of the year and it did settle down eventually so I am hoping the same will happen again for both of us.

 

I just wanted to say hello and that I am thinking of all of us who are dealing with WD. You are doing so well.

 

HUGS 

<p>February 2009 started taking Paroxetine 10 mg everyday. Reducing very slowly in February 2015.15

December 2015 was on 5 mg Paroxetine 4 days a week and 7.5 mg 3 days a week.

Severe withdrawal. Back to 7.5mg everyday from today 25 March 2016  7.1 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks) 23 May 2016   6.7 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 6 weeks) 4 July 2016   6.3 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks). 2 September 2016  5.9 mg (stayed on this dose for 10 weeks) 9 November 2016  5.6 mg (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks) 4 January 2017  5.3 mg (stayed on this dose for 6 weeks) 20 February 2017  5 mg (it's taken me 2 year to get half way!!) (stayed on this dose for 4 months) 20 June 2017   4.6 mg (stayed on this dose for 5 months ) 27 November 2017   4.2 mg (stayed on this dose for 7 months) 17 June 2018   3.9 mg (stayed on this dose for 7 months) 22 January 2019   3.5 mg {stayed on this dose for 2 years) 16 January 2021   3.2 mg 

3 April 2021  3mg

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You mentioned something about the spasms returning. Is this something you have dealt with before? Were they one of the symptoms you were having when going through those yearly waves?

Thinking of you sending you ((HUGS)).

Yr 1 Muscle spasms lasting days instead of weeks

Yr 2 Muscle spasms in back less intense, lasting hours or a day or two instead of days and weeks

Yr. 3:  Muscle spasms less intense and last only hours!  This is weird!  I still freak out and still can’t believe when they come and go on the same day!

 

 

Okay, I did a search for those 2 holds and cramps/spasms were not the symptoms that were on the top of my list for holding.  However, I was surprised to find pretty much exactly the same thing I have experienced recently!  Because spasms had been improving, I think it hit me hard to have them severe again this year.

 

Severe leg pain, muscle pain, tension and weakness occurring in May one year, June another and July another - so Ladybug, you could be right there about the winter idea!  Very interesting!  I do recall extreme heat was also a problem and having to put on wet socks at bedtime because of the burning pain (Brassmonkeys suggestion).

 

1 week in July 2014 while stabilising: Bad leg cramps followed by stiff necks and then a severe back spasm!  (This was in the early part of the hold)  This is exactly the same process that happened this time, first legs increased to severe followed by stiff necks and then lower back spasm!  How weird is that?  I went to Dr. for muscle relaxant and he refused but gave me anti-inflammatory which seemed to help pretty good in a week or two at most.

 

Well, it could just be a YEARY EVENT!  Don’t ask me why!  You could be right Ladybug, part of a bad wave and it will pass – I will hang onto that!

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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As for the Prozac switch, for some reason I have it in my head that people have better success with a switch when at lower doses and I think that is from a few experiences I saw on PP. I wish I knew for sure! I would love to try it myself if it meant being able to get off sooner.

 

I am hoping to find out some more about a Prozac switch and will do some research of my own.  Let me know if you find out anything more! x

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Hi GrandmaD,

 

Here is a comprehensive comparison among SSirs for your reference. I did intensive 3 day research anxiously a month ago thinking switch.

 

http://www.emedexpert.com/compare/ssris.shtml

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Hi Africa, nice to meet you, but sorry you also are going thru similar affllictions.  What do you do for the cramps and spasms?  Do you take anything?

 

LA, thanks HEAPS for that link, I will get to it right now and have a look! 

 

I have been reading some other stuff - like a taper should take HALF the time you were on the drug - which for me, means tapering should take 10 years!  Another one said that your symptoms should be very minimul or non existant before tapering again!   I have never been that good when I tapered.  All this confirms that I need to stay put at this dose or switch.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Found a post about the muscle spasm

 

They have muscle cramps as a common reaction. I got it from both imipramine and Paxil and now from Lexapro. A simple solution to try, which works pretty well for me, is to increase your intake of magnesium -- I take a 2:1 magnesium to calcium formula, or a 1:1, depending on how bad it is (the normal supplement would be 2:1 calcium to magnesium). Before doing that they used to wake me in the middle of the night.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Thanks Ladybug for your reply already!  Were you up in the middle of the night???? 

 

Yes, I am always up pretty late. :)

 

That is good to know about the Melatoniin and that you have none of those side effects.  Do you have any of those symptoms from w/d I mentioned? 

You mean from Melatonin? I dont think I've had any of those symptoms from taking it or withdrawing from it. I always took the recommended dose which is .5mg or less. For the past couple of years I was on .25mg and now I've tapered down to .125mg.

 

I realise that side effects don't always effect all people with all of them, but it is scarey considering I already have them.  When I last spoke to Dr. about it, he seemed to agree to steer clear.  Well, no, I wasn't thinking of taking it for sleep - I am putting up with the insomnia.  I was thinking about the spasms thinking it might calm my body down - isn't it for anxiety too or just insomnia? 

 

I think it's only for insomnia. I've never noticed any calming effects from it really. Honestly I'm not sure if it's done much of anything for the past few years I've taken it. If it does help it's subtle and I still experience insomnia from time to time when I'm taking it. I've only stayed on so long for fear of tapering off. The only supplement I've noticed a calming effect from is Magnesium but then it made my hypnic jerks worse for some reason. If I was having muscle cramp/spasm  issues I would probably try it again just not the glycinate version. I know they have an oil version that you spray on your skin and it is absorbed that way. If the oral kind gives you stomach issues that might be worth a try.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Hi grandmaD

 

I did send you a message on my journal but I forgot to mention that I only take paracetamol when the muscular pain is really bad. I have such a fear of any medications including vitamins that I don't take any supplements either.  I feel like I could benefit from a light massage and maybe some reflexology which I might try and have once the children go back to school after the Summer holidays.

 

I hope you've had a good day. 

<p>February 2009 started taking Paroxetine 10 mg everyday. Reducing very slowly in February 2015.15

December 2015 was on 5 mg Paroxetine 4 days a week and 7.5 mg 3 days a week.

Severe withdrawal. Back to 7.5mg everyday from today 25 March 2016  7.1 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks) 23 May 2016   6.7 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 6 weeks) 4 July 2016   6.3 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks). 2 September 2016  5.9 mg (stayed on this dose for 10 weeks) 9 November 2016  5.6 mg (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks) 4 January 2017  5.3 mg (stayed on this dose for 6 weeks) 20 February 2017  5 mg (it's taken me 2 year to get half way!!) (stayed on this dose for 4 months) 20 June 2017   4.6 mg (stayed on this dose for 5 months ) 27 November 2017   4.2 mg (stayed on this dose for 7 months) 17 June 2018   3.9 mg (stayed on this dose for 7 months) 22 January 2019   3.5 mg {stayed on this dose for 2 years) 16 January 2021   3.2 mg 

3 April 2021  3mg

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I found some very helpful information on the site I want to keep here about a switch to Prozac:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1463-the-prozac-switch-or-bridging-with-prozac/#entry13616

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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That is good to know about the Melatoniin and that you have none of those side effects.  Do you have any of those symptoms from w/d I mentioned? 

You mean from Melatonin? I dont think I've had any of those symptoms from taking it or withdrawing from it. I always took the recommended dose which is .5mg or less. For the past couple of years I was on .25mg and now I've tapered down to .125mg.

 

 

No, sorry, I meant do you have withdrawal symptoms from the a/d such as insomnia, anxiety, headaches, abdominal pain, indigestion, chest pain.  These are all symptoms I already have from w/d but are also side effects of Melatonin and that's what put me off trying it.  Do you find it helps with anxiety, palpitations and rapid pulse or do you just take it for insomnia?

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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I think it's only for insomnia. I've never noticed any calming effects from it really. Honestly I'm not sure if it's done much of anything for the past few years I've taken it. If it does help it's subtle and I still experience insomnia from time to time when I'm taking it. I've only stayed on so long for fear of tapering off. The only supplement I've noticed a calming effect from is Magnesium but then it made my hypnic jerks worse for some reason. If I was having muscle cramp/spasm  issues I would probably try it again just not the glycinate version. I know they have an oil version that you spray on your skin and it is absorbed that way. If the oral kind gives you stomach issues that might be worth a try.

Okay, that might answer my question.  I was trying to think of something that is calming, because that would help with insomnia AND cramps and spasms and anxiety...

 

I stopped the magnesium because I thought it was giving me the cramps, but will look into the version you have suggested, so thanks for that.  it also occurred to me that I stopped/reduced salt intake for the last taper and this one because I read salt can cause palpitations, but I didn't notice any difference, but it could be that reducing my salt intake caused the worsening for the cramps/spasms.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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  • Administrator

Paxil is diabolical.

 

grandmaD, can you get acupuncture or osteopathic manual therapy for the pain? Either can do wonders.

 

My theory is that pain from withdrawal finds the spots on our bodies that are under everyday stress, such as sitting at a desk and typing -- my pain found my wrists, shoulders, and upper back.

 

I know you won't want to hear this, but I would hold on tapering while getting treatment for the pain, let your nervous system settle.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks Alto - yes I think you are right, I think the pain and spasms and aches are in weak areas in my body.  I just posted in Africa's journal and realised that I must keep my legs/ankles and feet warm at all times, so that can only help.  I have been paying special attention to neck (wearing a scarf to bed and during the day), a hot water bottle for my back during the day when I sit, etc.  So far now day 4 and recovering from the 2nd severe back spasm.  If I can make it to a week, I will feel more confident.  I hope to just walk around the house tomorrow for the first time (outside if the sun comes out, that is).  We have not had the freezing minus temps we normally get but a lot of rain.  A friend of mine says rain will do it every time - cause aches with arthritis, that is.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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I have been doing some research to do a prozac switch which is what the doctor wanted to do when I was at 5mg but I refused because he wanted me to go to 10mg prozac.  However, from what I have read on this site, you can actually (hopefully) work with the doctor and tell him what you want to do and he might agree.

 

One thing I that did concern me was this statement: 

"Fluoxetine is more activating and preferred in depressed patients with apathy, lack of energy or hypersomnia.  And least preferred in patients with anxiety and insomnia."

This doesn't seem good for me then, based on palpitations, rapid pulse, insomnia and breathlessness (I think they are all anxiety related - is that right?)

It doesn't say which one is a good one in that case.

Back in 2009 a dr. did a switch from 20mg paxil to Endep twice a day.   This switch failed, but with the knowledge I have now, I think it failed because the dose was too high, because I was a zombie.  Do you know if Endep is a better choice to calm the system down?  I have not yet found anywhere that talks about a switch to Endep.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Alto, I am resigned now to the fact I have to stop tapering.  I don't think my body can take any more.  I will see this 8 week taper out and then do a long hold, at least 6 months or probably more, because as you can see from last year's hold, I was still not good after that hold.  I am doing as much homework as I can now on switching so I am prepared should that eventuate.  I think at this stage, however, from what I have read, it is best to do a long hold and see if the current lot of bad symptoms improve.  By doing this, it will also sort out whether or not all those symptoms are w/d or not, as I still don't know about the guts ache and ribcage aches and pains whether that is still related to gall surgery (a year ago now) or arthritis.

 

Alto, you said before somewhere that it was w/d, did you mean ALL THOSE SYMPTOMS that I have on this list from last years hold are w/d?  What about the ribcage aches and the guts ache do you think they are also w/d?

 

2015   6 MONTH HOLD

 

Head banging sensation – Improved after 19 weeks.  Improved next drop

Head vibrations – Improved after 16weeks.  Improved next drop

Indigestion – overall improvement.  Improvement next drop

Nausea – Gone

Sore head  -  Overall improvement.  Improved next drop

 

Head pressure  -  Overall heaps worse.  Improved next drop

Headache  -  Overall worse.   Improved  next drop

 

Palpitations – Improved after 20 weeks.  Worse next drop

Rapid Pulse – Improvement after 16 weeks.  Worse next drop

Anxiety – Improvement after 20 weeks.  Worse next drop

Breathlessness – overall improvement.  Heaps worse next drop

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Found a post about the muscle spasm

 

They have muscle cramps as a common reaction. I got it from both imipramine and Paxil and now from Lexapro. A simple solution to try, which works pretty well for me, is to increase your intake of magnesium -- I take a 2:1 magnesium to calcium formula, or a 1:1, depending on how bad it is (the normal supplement would be 2:1 calcium to magnesium). Before doing that they used to wake me in the middle of the night.

Thanks LA, I only just found your post when checking to make sure I hadn't missed any!  Ladybug also urged me to try magnesium again, so i will give it another try!  Bless all you guys for your wonderful help!

 

PS - Alto, I had to ask my hubby what diabolical meant, I thought it was a medical term!  He said  'BAD"!   Well you CAN SAY THAT AGAIN!

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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GrandmaD - am following your journal, and rooting for you. Hang in there, you are doing so well.

 

I know it's a helluva struggle, and a fight.

 

HUGS,

JC xx

Dose History: 19 Feb 2014 - Escitalopram 10mg daily June 2015 - Started taper, 5mg every other day July 2015 - 5mg every 2 days August 2015 - 5mg every 3 days September 2015 - 5mg every 4 days Sept 14th - Completed tapering, but at 7 weeks "drug free" I suffered serious WD symptoms as a consequence of "incorrect" tapering. Nov 25 2015 - Re-instated Cipralex @ 2.5mg daily. WD symptoms faded. Held at this dose and experienced "windows and waves". 12 Oct 2017 Reduced dose to 1.25mg. 13 Mar 2018 Reduced dose to 0.625mg (approx.). 16 April 2018 0mg. Windows and waves triggered by stress (IBS/reflux, headaches, sinus issues) Aug 2019 Mirena coil fitted 6 Jan 2020 MAJOR Wave hit 19 months following last dose (protracted WD).  Symptoms listed below Mar 2020 Mirena coil removal.

Therapy: Nov 15th 2016 Re-started therapy Jan 19th 2017 Started CBT Dec 2017 Started listening to Hypnotherapy CD (self-esteem). Nov 2019 Started couples therapy.

Supplements: "Bioglan" Biotic Balance Ultimate Flora 10 billion CFU, live Bacteria, Probiotic, suitable for Vegetarians, with Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium Longum"Pukka" Vitalise a unique blend of 30 energising botanicals.

Diet: 16 April 2018 Detox cleanse / anti-candida for 90 days. Jan 2020 Started "small plate" diet (i.e child size portions).

Exercise: Stretching, Yoga, Pilates, Spinning, Elliptical/upper body workout, walking.

Medical Test Results: 4 Jan 2017 Homeopathic Treatment starts 24 Feb 2017 Started weight loss program 24 Mar 2017 Naturopathic Treatment + anti-Candida diet started due to suspected Candida Related Complex (CRC). DETOXED for 7 weeks to "re-set" gut. April 2017 "Genova Diagnostics" Comprehensive Stool Analysis NEGATIVE; Full Blood Count (Normal) / Blood Cholesterol: 5.6 (Borderline) / Blood Sugar (Normal) / 28 Jun 2017 FSH 8.2 / 14 Nov 2017 FSH 17.7 Dec 2017 Blood Cholesterol: 3.9 (Normal) / Kidney Function (Normal) / Blood Sugar (Normal). December 2017 "Genova Diagnostics" Food panel allergy (bloodwork) analysis - a few "VERY LOW/VL" allergens; Mar 2018 "Genova Diagnostics" SIBO urine analysis: High Level of Yeast/fungal markers found in small intestine but NO SIBO.  April 2018 Thyroid (Normal) / Full Blood Count (Normal) / FSH (Normal). 16 April 2018 Started anti-Candida diet - 3 month protocol.   25 March 2020 All test results "Normal". CRP" 5 mg/L (normal range to 0-5 mg/L).

Symptoms:  Flu-like symptoms, anxiety, anhedonia, sinus headaches right-side (severe), IBS issues/reflux (severe)**, tinnitus, fatigue, inner tremor, nausea, chills/hot flushes, pounding heart, muscular issues including stiff left hip flexor, intense anger, PSSD (ongoing).  **Histhamine intolerance (suspected).

Major Life Events: 

Re-located to UK from Canada: Jan 2016

My father died: 5:05pm, Monday 5 Feb 2018 Last Lexapro dose: 16 April 2018 (its now been over a year since I quit ADs)  Moved house: Friday 23rd February 2018  "Divorced" toxic Mother: Monday 26 March 2018 Starting working again: 19 November 2018  Diagnosed with: 5th August 2021 PTSD/C-PTSD Diagnosed with: March 2022 Interstitial Cystitis (IC)/Painful bladder syndrome

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Hope you are feeling a bit better GrandmaD!

 

I hate to see you are in this bad position. I know decision on switching can be very stressful. I remember I got very anxious after a 3 day constant research and analyzing. Please take it easy and be aware of the harm of this process.

 

Downtongirl had just recently switched, you may want to contact her for her thoughts. I am hesitating to share more of my thoughts and research in fear of making you confused.

 

By here is her thread,

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11041-downtongirl-i-want-to-become-med-free/page-8

 

Lex

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Hi GrandamaD

 

Thinking of you and hope you had a better day.

 

Hugs x

<p>February 2009 started taking Paroxetine 10 mg everyday. Reducing very slowly in February 2015.15

December 2015 was on 5 mg Paroxetine 4 days a week and 7.5 mg 3 days a week.

Severe withdrawal. Back to 7.5mg everyday from today 25 March 2016  7.1 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks) 23 May 2016   6.7 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 6 weeks) 4 July 2016   6.3 mg everyday (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks). 2 September 2016  5.9 mg (stayed on this dose for 10 weeks) 9 November 2016  5.6 mg (stayed on this dose for 8 weeks) 4 January 2017  5.3 mg (stayed on this dose for 6 weeks) 20 February 2017  5 mg (it's taken me 2 year to get half way!!) (stayed on this dose for 4 months) 20 June 2017   4.6 mg (stayed on this dose for 5 months ) 27 November 2017   4.2 mg (stayed on this dose for 7 months) 17 June 2018   3.9 mg (stayed on this dose for 7 months) 22 January 2019   3.5 mg {stayed on this dose for 2 years) 16 January 2021   3.2 mg 

3 April 2021  3mg

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