grandmaD: turtle here

[LexAnger]

I'm so sorry GrandmaD! It's simply heartbreaking to go through each day and hour for these many years but still one or the other bad symptoms keep coming up! I'm experiencing the same surprises every few days along with the dose reduction. I got this feeling that regardless how slow we go, we have to kick each of all the possible bad hits only they may spread out over longer times instead of lurking their ugly heads all together at the same time.

 

I pray God to have mercy to all of us. It's so unfair for any human being going through this incredibly horrible path.

 

Lots hugs,

Lex

[Jlynn]

I have been having random tingling in various places with spasms that seems to last a few weeks and then ease and crop up in another party of my body.

[grandmaD]

Thanks LA and JLynn for your replies, it does help somewhat to know others are going through the same things. Thanks for your support!

 

The spasms in my right leg, knee and butt have subsided back to just cramping which I am now used to and I can walk again.  The pain in my neck/shoulder is still there, but manageable, so keeping up the dencorub and painkillers.

 

Woke in the night with freezing cold cold thing, but not as bad as a block of ice like I used to get.  I didn't think too much about it because it actually IS cold, and we had a frost last night too.  I put a beannie on which helps during these cold times and got myself a hot water bottle, but then I woke up TOO hot and with a bad headache.

 

I saw that both Brassmonkey and Amy both had migraines out of the blue after quite a while, so I have to accept this but is hard since I've not had a migraine for ages and although headaches increased to 2 or 3 a week, they were only mild.

 

Times like this my mind wants to ditch the stupid poison and just see how I go, but from reading about you other guys, I am too scared!  Also, I see from my results that each drop the symptoms go high and then come back down, which proves to me the drop certainly still affects my body.  It is just so frustrating and discouraging when things suddenly get out of "what I call normal" .  So I guess it's just a rotten glitch I have to get through.  I still have 2 weeks of this taper to go, so hope for some improvement by then.

[grandmaD]

Pretty similar week, not the improvement I hoped for, though my neck has improved heaps and the aches and pains also.

 

Insomnia is really bad at 3-4hours for 4 nights a week resulting in feeling tired, exhausted and low.  Leg cramps also still a big problem and I think this is what might be waking me up and keeping me awake (along with the anxiety)...

 

A bad episode with spasms/cramps and diarrhoea but I doubt it is w/d related.  We had vistors/kids causing the anxiety to go high, etc. so you can't avoid outside stressors at times.  She brought chicken with her which we ate.  It was cold, in ice in an esky, but I didn't ask how old it was.  Anyway, threw the rest out and so far, just a very sore belly.

 

I didn't cope with the kids and ended up with a headache as well.  It is so hard to believe I used to run all day every day fostering very ratty kids before w/d life!

 

Still fighting thoughts to taper again now, but so glad I have my results which is showing the other 13 or so symptoms are gradually improving, so reluctantly I have to stick with it and plug on be it ever so slowly ....

[grandmaD]

Another week has gone by.  Another surprise out of the blue with muscle cramps/spasms around my middle and ribcage.  I felt very "fragile" in my whole body, as if my hip might break or ribs break so I was getting around very slowly like a 100 year old. 

 

When I got the neck ache I tried the magnesium again, but silly me I took 1/4 in one go, forgetting to do it slowly.  I have tried several times to have it diluted, over a week in sips so I am trying it again, but wondering if I should forget it.  I will finish the jug I made up (1/4 tablet dissolved in 2 litres and usually lasts a week) and if I keep getting these muscle cramps and spasms will stop it again.

 

I did a dummy spit after this, as another week with only 1 good day and I don't seem to cope on that basis.  I think my feelings must be returning as I am not an angry person!  So this felt very overwhelming and I was furious about the whole stupid w/d deal and I just wanted "off" - I get this quite regularly too, it is a constant battle.  Anyway I tried to be sensible about it and decided to drop now after 7 weeks (and not feeling good) instead of 8 weeks and waiting till I am better.

 

This brings me to the next point - which is how do you know when your "body is talking" so you can "listen to it?"  Do you guys think my body was getting fed up and not getting any better and was trying to tell me to do an early drop?  How do you know it isn't your emotions dictating to your head? How do you know it isn't just insufficient sleep?

 

Insomnia is still a problem, but for 2 hours (bit of improvement on 3) for 4 nights a week.  I usually take 2 hours to get to sleep but last night it was 3, even after doing relaxation and breathing exercises three times over.  Anxiety was high, palpitations and vibrations high so I resorted to 1/2 serapax.  It has been months since I have taken one, so it was so nice to be able to sleep and I slept till 8am!!!!  Hubby brought me in a lovely hot cuppa, so I felt so much better today.

[ladybug]

This brings me to the next point - which is how do you know when your "body is talking" so you can "listen to it?"  Do you guys think my body was getting fed up and not getting any better and was trying to tell me to do an early drop?  How do you know it isn't your emotions dictating to your head? How do you know it isn't just insufficient sleep?

 

I wish I knew! I go through the same thing drop after drop. Are my symptoms telling me to hold longer or drop? I used to be able to "hear" my body but now I seem to have symptoms all the time and when I do do longer holds, nothing seems to really change. And yes I get SO fed up and want to be done with it. So, like you, despite feeling crappy I dropped again. If my symptoms followed a definite pattern after drops it might be different but they don't anymore so might as well keep moving along. Turtle power!

 

Glad to hear you got a good night's sleep. ((HUGS))

[LexAnger]

Oh my goodness, I can't believe all three of us hit the same point on this journeys at the same time!

I used to feel i can see a pattern by listening to my body and decide to cut or hold and was able to feel ok for 1-2 days. I got total lost during the past couple rounds and got only half good days each round.

 

At this moment I'm still debating with cutting or holding today, but after reading the post from both of you, I feel I just go ahead to make another cut.

 

This whole thing is like a complete and most confusing maze with constant changes. I wonder any human being would ever know.

 

only thing for sure is we have each other as company if that can provide some comfort.

 

Hugs, hugs, hugs,

Lex

[AmyK]

You can count me in in that club too! I am not really able to "hear" my body either. As I used to. My cuts are very unpredictable now. I dont seem to be able to hold long and make tiny cuts quite often now. This time I told myself to really hold longer, but it feels like I am intoxicated now on day 12. Well, I'll see.

Sending healing thoughts to the three of you! Turtle power, great expression!

Hugs!

[LexAnger]

So sorry AmyK to hear that you are still in difficult situation! I was having high hopes on your last tail of the journey to be smooth and symptoms free.

 

Welcome to the club, sorry to say, but I'm glad we found each other and have one more hand to hold.

 

A big long group hug!

[Altostrata]

grandmaD, you might want to try "Waller water," it's a good way to get magnesium http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/?p=53698

[grandmaD]

 

This brings me to the next point - which is how do you know when your "body is talking" so you can "listen to it?"  Do you guys think my body was getting fed up and not getting any better and was trying to tell me to do an early drop?  How do you know it isn't your emotions dictating to your head? How do you know it isn't just insufficient sleep?

 

I wish I knew! I go through the same thing drop after drop. Are my symptoms telling me to hold longer or drop? I used to be able to "hear" my body but now I seem to have symptoms all the time and when I do do longer holds, nothing seems to really change. And yes I get SO fed up and want to be done with it. So, like you, despite feeling crappy I dropped again. If my symptoms followed a definite pattern after drops it might be different but they don't anymore so might as well keep moving along. Turtle power!

 

Glad to hear you got a good night's sleep. ((HUGS))

 

Hi babygirl, so nice to hear from you again and reassuring others are on the same mad track!  I think you hit the nail on the head with why I had the dummy spit, and that is when the drops go to a pattern, you feel a sort of comfort that things are "normal".  When things didn't improve at weeks 6 and 7 and in fact, got worse with the muscle problems, it really got to me and in some sort of strange way I think doing a drop is like "well, things are crappy anyway, so there cop that!"  Not really being kind to self, though I guess!  But good to see you do the same thing!  I'll pop over to your journal and talk to you about your drop there.  Yeah, GO TURTLE POWER!

[grandmaD]

Oh my goodness, I can't believe all three of us hit the same point on this journeys at the same time!

I used to feel i can see a pattern by listening to my body and decide to cut or hold and was able to feel ok for 1-2 days. I got total lost during the past couple rounds and got only half good days each round.

 

At this moment I'm still debating with cutting or holding today, but after reading the post from both of you, I feel I just go ahead to make another cut.

 

This whole thing is like a complete and most confusing maze with constant changes. I wonder any human being would ever know.

 

only thing for sure is we have each other as company if that can provide some comfort.

 

Hugs, hugs, hugs,

Lex

Thanks LA for your post and your being "lost" in this taper as well!  I hope you do okay if you go ahead and make a cut as you are doing it much quicker than us guys.  You are SO RIGHT how confusing and crazy this thing is, it never stays the same and when one thing improves something else comes along to surprise you.  It is beautiful that we have each other and I was very comforted when I came on to find these posts from you girls, thank you so much!  x  Hugs received also!

[grandmaD]

You can count me in in that club too! I am not really able to "hear" my body either. As I used to. My cuts are very unpredictable now. I dont seem to be able to hold long and make tiny cuts quite often now. This time I told myself to really hold longer, but it feels like I am intoxicated now on day 12. Well, I'll see.

Sending healing thoughts to the three of you! Turtle power, great expression!

Hugs!

Amy, I am so surprised and saddened every time I see you are still going through this horrible mess!  Thank you for your healing thoughts, much appreciated believe me!  Did you find the lower you went that the more unpredictable the drops were?  I do recall the drops around 4.9 to 4.7 were also unpredictable and much worse.  My prayers are with you for your success which doesn't look like being too far away!

 

Amy, how do I find your journal and what is it called?

[grandmaD]

grandmaD, you might want to try "Waller water," it's a good way to get magnesium http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/?p=53698

  I have persevered to many times with the magnesium because I have permanent leg cramps, but have not had much success.  Then when the spasms return I freak out and give it another try!   So thanks Alto I will look that up.

[grandmaD]

I have to say AND REMIND MYSELF that the Serapax is not the answer.  I seem to get a kickback from it causing the extreme high vibrations, rapid pulse and palpitations and anxiety and resulting insomnia!  Which was the case last night, so, hate it as I do, I took 2 codeine at 1am in order to calm myself down, but felt so bad and guilty about it because it reminded me of days LONG, LONG AGO in my past life and first marriage when truckies would take "uppers" and "downers". 

 

Hopefully I can remember, which is a big problem I keep forgetting what these things do to me and I think at the time I get desperate and just want to calm myself down.  My plan is to to try and stick it out in the future.

 

I did a whole taper changing the tablet from taking it in the morning to taking it at night and it didn't make any difference to insomnia.

 

I did a whole taper with less/no salt and it didn't really affect palpitations.

[AmyK]

Hi again Grandma!

Well, after 2 mg my taper became more unpredictable, and a bit more under 1 mg. But everyone is so different (and I am on a different drug), så please dont be scared. I have always felt that I never tolerated this drug (from the beginning).

I could be the inaccuracy of weighing too, the pill is very tiny now, and the scale is jumping a lot on these small numbers. I weigh the dose for almost an hour each day...

From 2 mg and below I also had a big change in my life; I stopped working and maybe that contributed to my stress (about future) and my CSN. I dont know...

I am still, though, confident that I will handle this last taper going to zero, and I am so looking forward to it.

Thankyou for your well wishes!

I wish you all the best on your further taper!

 

(My journal is here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7944-amyk-intro-about-myself/ )

Hugs!

Amy

[grandmaD]

Well I have settled down in myself much better having done that drop at 7 weeks and so far so good, but week 1 is usually quite good anyway.

Insomnia again for 3 hours, so I managed to cope with it better and not take anything.  Gotta try and accept it.

In order to maintain a 2.5% taper,  I have reached the point where I now only drop .01mg instead of .02 (by weight) and that is as low as I can measure it now.

In the past my weights could be .01mg above or below the tablet weight but now I am trying to keep it the exact weight and that should be a big help.

It isn't easy though but I am not tearing my hair out so often with weighing as what I used to do - I can remember the spack attacks I'd have with weighing! 

 

AND HERE'S MY BIG NEWS:

 

5 YEARS!!!!!  i HAVE REACHED 5 YEARS OF TAPERING SUPER (TURTLE) SLOW!  Before that was 10 years of getting down to 1/4 tablet and back up to a full tablet and going through w/d all that time and not knowing it!  I am very pleased that I have reached this point and not had to UP-DOSE!!!!  I will start posting my updates tomorrow of how I went for that year. 

[brassmonkey]

Congratulations GrandmaD. Hanging in there for 5 years is quite an accomplishment.

 

(((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))

[LexAnger]

GrandmaD, I want to give you a big long bear hug for the huge achievement with admiration and love!

 

It's interesting that week one is always good. It could be my over thinking about the good effect of cutting and what it may indicate--- that drug side effects might be a player in the mix. I always feel better father first couple days after each cut in my 6-7 day reduction cycle (1 drop each drop, about 1.3%).

 

I will wait to see your update about the rest weeks.

 

Not up dosing and keeping going will eventually get you there, regardless how long it takes, and at lower doses, side effects will die off its power so you will have to deal with only the WD effects.

 

We will get there, and turtle will win!

 

Lex

[grandmaD]

Thanks guys for your love, support and encouragement they are all so very precious and valued!  Hugs back! 

 

Lex, I wonder too, if that first week is a mind thing - glad to be dropping/going down/making progress/doing something, etc.  The other thought I had was that it is kind of like another week of taper because the drop hasn't taken effect as yet so the week is good.  My drops kick in at week 2 and get progressively worse, level out and then improve - usually - but not always which as you know is frustrating!

[grandmaD]

DROP FOR YEAR 5 WAS 4.1 to 3.6 = overall drop for year  .5mg

 

THINGS THAT ARE (MOSTLY) GONE IN THE 5^TH YEAR OF TAPER

 

Scalp crawlies still gone (went away years3-4)

Body jolts still gone (went away in years 3-4)

Shaking still gone (went in years 1-2)

Dry eyes/mouth still gone (went in years 1-2)

Muscle spasms mostly gone – most recent were neck spasm one week and the next week spasm/cramps around ribcage and middle

Nausea still gone (went in the 4^th year)

Dizzy spells mostly gone

Sitting time: 1 hour

[grandmaD]

THINGS THAT GOT WORSE IN THE 5TH YEAR OF TAPER

Very bad short term memory loss

Palpitations – these have got worse and worse each year

Insomnia – this continues to get worse and worse each year

Tired & slow (this is likely due to procedures like endoscopy, colonoscopy & gall surgery)

Rapid pulse (keeps getting worse and worse each year)

Breathlessness (worse and worse each year)

[grandmaD]

THINGS THAT REMAINED THE SAME IN THE 5TH YEAR OF TAPER

Ear ringing (got used to it – mild to mod but still goes very high at times)

Tingling in legs

Painful/aching/burning legs

Body vibrations frequency same (daily) mild to mod. but high at times

Little tiny red pimple-like spots that are very itchy come up in tender areas like inside arms, thighs and on belly after each drop

Unable to do shopping or take care of bills or drive

Tight chests

[grandmaD]

THINGS THAT IMPROVED IN THE 5^TH YEAR OF TAPER

 

Good and bad days

Anxiety (slightly)

Body vibrations

Head vibrations

Head pressure

Headaches

Sore heads

Head banging sensation – thankfully as this was most painful, like being bashed in the side of the head with a lump of wood.  The past 6 months when I had it, it was mild and not so severe.

Backaches

Hip pain

Ability to do housework.  Before it was such a heavy burden, extremely tiresome and very difficult.  It seemed to take forever.  Now I (mostly) do it quickly and easily and without thinking about it.  I can do half the vacuuming and mopping again (mostly).  I say mostly because I still have days when I am extremely lethargic, weak, heavy and slow, but not every day like before.

Quiet time – ability to sit and enjoy scenery briefly but then get agitated.

Pray – ability to focus and concentrate.  This varies from 5 minutes to 20minutes.

Read – I was ecstatic to find I could read a book and I read 3 or 4 small ones.

Jig saw – I did three or four 500 piece puzzles during the year.

Humming/singing – I surprised myself one day when I heard myself doing this for the first time in five years!

Shopping – the desire to go shopping (I needed to buy new clothes in size 10 due to weight loss.  Previously I was very blessed by my best friend who gave me heaps of her old clothes when I went to a size 14 and then more again at size 12!  As I got smaller, she was getting bigger and giving me her old clothes!  Hubby still shops for groceries and I have been with him at times.  1 hour is all I can handle.

People – Abililty to concentrate on what others were saying increased to about 30mins.  My desire to talk returned, but not for long as it makes the anxiety worse.  Still refrain from talking to anyone (on phone, etc) 2 hours before bedtime for the same reason.

For the first time in 10 years I was told over the phone that I “sounded good”!

For the first time in 10 years I was told I “looked so much better” by my friend I see weekly!

I can tell my head is “different”, more normal, clearer more days now than not.

Able to do short periods of gardening

Able to tackle cleaning windows and cobwebs on my own, doing 1 or 2 windows at a time.

[scallywag]

Nice summary grandmaD. Looking forward to seeing what moves from the "continues" column to the "improved" for you.

[LexAnger]

Echo to Scallywag, a great summary!

We tend to lose the big picture/ progress while focusing on every day and hour trying to get through each day.

 

I'm so happy for you GrandmaD, that even there are still many symptoms remaining or appearing, the ones improved are pretty significant and a indication of healing! Very amazed about the healing ability our body and brain have!

 

I found myself not complaining about the pain for the past many weeks, as it has been the main or issue for me all these years, and now I worry more about the Bain fog, confusion.

 

All these will pass, just like the old ones, as the brain readjusts with each drop of the drug leaving our body.

 

Be kind to yourself,

Love and hugs,

Lex

[grandmaD]

Thanks guys for your comments.  Yes LA you are so right about the daily grind versus the overall picture.  This is a constant stumbling block for me, I get so bogged down with the daily yuck and find it so hard to believe things can get better.  I am seeing the light at times however when I have "quicker recovery" days and I still find it very amazing and surprising that I have these times I recover so much quicker than I before, when I was bogged down for weeks and months on end.

 

It is encouraging to do yearly updates and see what progress I have made.  I haven't worked it out yet, but I think year 4 was the worst year ever.  I am pretty sure that year 5 saw major improvements in head issues like headaches, pressure heads, head banging sensation, sore heads and head vibrations.  These things alone, I am able every day to be glad about and even able to make more plans because before I couldn't plan anything from one day to the next.

 

I agree, LA about our body's ability to heal because like you and no doubt everyone else, you think it is going to kill you and wonder if there is hope for healing.

 

How are you going nowadays LA?  Still turtling on?

[grandmaD]

Well there you go - first week of drop not as good as usual.  Perhaps patterns are changing.  Also physical symptoms changing with more muscle weakness and problems with hip, knee and ankle joints.  Some days I felt very vulnerable like something would give or break so i took it very slow and steady.  Head banging sensation and head vibes have returned but not severe like before.

 

I have been on digestive capsules (enzymes) for about 10 days now and I think they are helping with the guts ache, so that's something.

 

Still problems with aching around ribcage which goes around to my R side spine, especially with walking.  I think this  is what causes the breathlessness thing.  It is as if I have a heavy weight sitting on my chest/ribcage all the time making breathing difficult and the discomfit is aggravating.

[grandmaD]

Having reviewed the past year I am very glad I have not crashed and have seen many improvements and while many other symptoms remain the same, I am sad and frustrated about the symptoms that continue to get worse year after year.  The ones that concern me mainly and cause much discontent are:

• Palpitations and rapid pulse – Resting pulse on arising is usually in the 90's and 100's each day
• Insomnia - up to 4 nights a week from 2-3 or 4hours
• Breathlessness
• Soreness and discomfit in belly which is a little better the last week or so after starting digestive capsules
• Aching in ribcage which goes around the right side to my back/spine usually with exertion/walking/exercise

I have been coming down extremely slowly about every 8 weeks doing a 2.5% taper.  So although I am pleased about the improvement of head issues I am now annoyed about these other symptoms, so I still do not have any quality of life.

 

I then worked out how much longer it will take me continuing at this rate and I HAD A BIG DUMMY SPIT when it worked out to be another 7 YEARS!  I am sorry, but what with the 10 years trying to get off on my own and now 5 years of doing a slow taper, this is is INSANE and INTOLERABLE

[grandmaD]

!!  That posted before I finished!  Anyway, I am NOT PREPARED to continue without any quality of life (although it IS BETTER than it was due to better heads).  I have put off so many things for so long.  I have considered all my options:

 

 

• another 7 years at this rate is not an option
• I always struggle with the idea to CT but know from previous "too fast" tapers that CT would probably be harmful
• try tapering faster (I have just dropped to a .01mg by weight taper to maintain 2.5%) I could go back to a .02mg weight drop (a 5% taper)
• try tapering quicker by tapering every 4 weeks and "test" the waters and if not successful try a 7 week taper (not keen, as will take take forever)
• try missing a tablet once a week for a taper then twice a week for a taper and so on, but this would be a fast reduction of the weight intake
• Switch to something else - this was an option I rejected at the 5mg point, but at that point I thought I am now down to 1/4 tablet and will be off it in the next year ... I didn't bother to calculate things, it just seemed so low with not far to go ....
• Do another 6 month hold and do some things I have wanted to do

At this point in time, I am trying not to panic about it because I could just be in a bad place, not unusual for the first 3 or 4 weeks of a drop so please bear with me!  I will not make a decision soon, because we have decided to go to Tassie for a REWARD FOR 5 YEARS OF W/D CRAP.  With less head issues, I feel more confident about this decision, one of those I had put off for 5 years.  So I am considering holding for longer than the 8 weeks, especially while we are away.

 

I will make a decision about what to do when we get back.  If anyone wants to comment, please feel free, I will consider other options I may not have thought of.

[grandmaD]

w/d versus side effects

 

This is something I had never considered before, putting everything down to w/d but have read recently about the possibility of symptoms not being w/d effects but side effects.

 

I looked up both these in respect to the issues I am struggling with and found:

• Insomnia is both
• Anxiety is both

So that makes it rather difficult to decide!  Some others that are side effects, however that I have is:

• acid stomach
• difficulty breathing
• abdominal pain, heartburn, chest pain, etc.
• fast pulse

That makes it harder to decide whether to taper faster.  if they were ALL  side effects, I would be more inclined to go fast, but because the anxiety and insomnia are both, I am inclined to be more cautious.

[grandmaD]

I have considered all my options:

• another 7 years at this rate is not an option
• I always struggle with the idea to CT but know from previous "too fast" tapers that CT would probably be harmful
• try tapering faster (I have just dropped to a .01mg by weight taper to maintain 2.5%) I could go back to a .02mg weight drop (a 5% taper)
• try tapering quicker by tapering every 4 weeks and "test" the waters and if not successful try a 7 week taper (not keen, as will take take forever)
• try missing a tablet once a week for a taper then twice a week for a taper and so on, but this would be a fast reduction of the weight intake
• Switch to something else - this was an option I rejected at the 5mg point, but at that point I thought I am now down to 1/4 tablet and will be off it in the next year ... I didn't bother to calculate things, it just seemed so low with not far to go ....
• Do another 6 month hold and do some things I have wanted to do

At this point in time, I am trying not to panic about it because I could just be in a bad place, not unusual for the first 3 or 4 weeks of a drop so please bear with me!  I will not make a decision soon, because we have decided to go to Tassie for a REWARD FOR 5 YEARS OF W/D CRAP.  With less head issues, I feel more confident about this decision, one of those I had put off for 5 years.  So I am considering holding for longer than the 8 weeks, especially while we are away.

 

I will make a decision about what to do when we get back.  If anyone wants to comment, please feel free, I will consider other options I may not have thought of.

[grandmaD]

w/d versus side effects

 

This is something I had never considered before, putting everything down to w/d but have read recently about the possibility of symptoms not being w/d effects but side effects.

 

I looked up both these in respect to the issues I am struggling with and found:

• Insomnia is both
• Anxiety is both

So that makes it rather difficult to decide!  Some others that are side effects, however that I have is:

• acid stomach
• difficulty breathing
• abdominal pain, heartburn, chest pain, etc.
• fast pulse

That makes it harder to decide whether to taper faster.  if they were ALL  side effects, I would be more inclined to go fast, but because the anxiety and insomnia are both, I am inclined to be more cautious.

[nz11]

Hope you enjoy your trip reward to Tassie.

I gave myself rewards like that too.

For my 4 year reward i got an accommodation voucher in fiji for 100 bucks for one week on an auction site. So went to Fiji. Never been there before.

They hadnt seen rain in months and the water visibility was unprecedented as i walked from the plane to the terminal after landing in Fiji guess what ...it rained ...buckets. Water visibility turned to custard. Got to the accommodation and thought id kayak out to the reef fell out and gashed my leg on coral and got to dangerously close to the breakers and had to be rescued. Then the tap came of the shower handle and water shot horizontally all over my room...i was moved to a different room but that night got bitten by bed fleas. Then going scuba diving with the dive company from hell they went out when everyone else cancelled i strained my shoulder so bad holding onto the side of the boat for dear life as it went into free fall between waves. Then they refused to refund my money for the shark dive cos i wanted to cancel as my shoulder was killing me. And we wouldnt have been able to see anything anyway.

other than that i had a great time.

Havent given myself a another reward but i think i will when i get to 6 yrs drug free later this year. It might be something simple like a day trip to the hotpools. What could go wrong with that !

 

Well down to 3.5 mg thats great going.

I think unless life threatening side effects must take a back seat to tapering safely. Besides side effects may diminish the lower the dose.

 

Let us know how the trip to Tassie goes.

[grandmaD]

Recent History

I have been struggling for some time now with the achey ribcage and breathlessness and the ache that goes around to the back of my spine (R side) and with belly discomfit.  I have also felt like I am deteriorating but couldn’t really put my finger on it, but in the area of muscle weakness, nerve pain, bone pain and lack of energy and motivation.

 

Feeling fed up and frustrated, I tapered twice this year after 7 weeks instead of 8, so that may have played a part also. 

 

Because I have lived with the cramping and tightness in my legs for so long, I tend to ignore it.  Then just recently I felt very weak and fragile, like I might break a bone or pull a muscle, but then I seemed to improve from that.  I also had a severe stiff neck on one occasion and a moderate one on another.

 

Now

Then yesterday I woke with another stiff neck.  I took strong anti-inflammatories and (codeine) painkillers and a few hours later I had a severe lower back spasm and couldn’t move without pain.  I spent the day on the couch and dosed up on more A/I’s and P/K’s including the Mercydnol at night (codeine and muscle relaxant.)

 

I can move around today, but slowly and still in pain and backed off to Ibuprofen and Panadol.

 

This has made me now wonder if the ribcage and belly thing is due to cramping as I notice I also have chest ache back again which I have had before but seems strange I would have all this aching after being on A/I’s and P/K’s for almost 2 days now.

 

I began to rack my brain trying to figure out why I should get the spasm and cramping at such a low dose and after going so slowly.  The last bad back spasm I had was perhaps a year ago and I recovered quicker than I expected but can’t remember how long it took w/o going thru my notes.

 

Then it came to me that I thought the magnesium I was sipping may have caused the recent stiff neck episodes.  I did finish the jugful I had (instead of throwing it out!) so that may have contributed.

 

Then I began to wonder if there was magnesium in the vit. B complex and would you believe it – there is!  It says Magnesium phosphoate 140mg.   I wonder if anyone knows if that is causing the cramping of late and the severe spasm yesterday?   I started the vit. B in Feb. 2016 weekly and gradually increased it until a month ago began taking it every 4 days.

 

That sent me to my headache tablets which I know also contain vit. B and sure enough – more magnesium!   It says it contains Magnesium orotate dehydrate (mag. 3.63m) 56.72mg.  So then I checked the digestive enzymes, but they are okay! The only other supplement I take is vit. C.  and just started taking ¼ tsp. fish oil once a week.

 

In a nutshell

I guess what I am wondering is whether it is feasible to expect spasms still at this low dose, going this slowly or is it the magnesium?

 

I have got 16 other symptoms that I am pretty sure are withdrawal and have been coping reasonably well with most of them and tolerating the bad ones (insomnia, anxiety, rapid pulse) because I feel that they are definitely w/d.

 

I am confused however with the latest lot of symptoms mentioned above as to whether they are also w/d or not.  I need to mention that I have had cramping all the way thru – esp. in butt, legs and feet.  I have had severe spasms back when I was doing a 10% taper and only 1 or 2 after that. 

 

I should mention also I guess that it was for severe muscle spasms that I was put on aropax/paxil in the first place.  For this reason I always seem to go into a spin, thinking that these spasms are returning and that frightens me a great deal so I try and stay calm, relax and watch my thoughts about this.

[LexAnger]

DrandmaD,

 

You did an excellent job laying out all the options and analyzing possible risks in all different Angles!

 

Giving this incredible maze, I would lean to the simple ones with least changes except for continuously lowering doses like you have been doing.

 

I agree with you about the insomnia, anxiety and acid stomach. They are to me, more from WD. All types of pain is proven now in my case are more from drug side effects which are improving for you now, a lower dose effect. It sounds to me you are getting over with the side effects at the current dose while getting more Wd symptoms.

 

I remember two year ago when I started the micro taper, I did the calculation and got 7 yrs to complete. As things went in the past two years, I found I actually could/had to reduce much faster as cutting doses helps in certain ways with certain symptoms and holding long doesn't provide better results. So my current estimate is to get down to 1mg end of this year and take care of the last 1mg next year. This may not work out as planned, could be faster or slower. So I don't think too much about how long it may take to the finish line anymore. I have been cutting very rigriously in the past months. I'm pretty much disabled and miserable anyways regardless.

 

In terms of equavelent doses, I'm still at higher doses than you ( lexapro is supposedly two times more potent than Paxil), so my experience so far may not be applicable to your case. So far I still feel more side effects than WD (no insomnia, no stomach issue) and why I think this way.

 

What symptoms improve at later weeks when you feel the time for a new cut? Any symptoms got worse?

 

I'm glad you feel able to take a trip and reward yourself with the break. I hope it provides a positive chance to distant your mind from the symptoms and you can enjoy the time fully for a nice memory in the future and regenerize for the rest journey.

 

Lots love and hugs,

Lex