success ☼ branyan from PP Genital Anesthesia and PSSD

[branyan]

 

Branyan's success story:  branyan-pssd-successchallenges

 

First posted this today in the Symptoms forum, but since it is my first post I will post it here in hopes i can get some replies

 

Keep in mind, that in addition to the sexual side effects (which in all honesty are the biggest deal to me, considering i lived with all the other symptoms while on the Lexapro itself and maintained a good life) I deal with cognitive difficulty, food and drink sensitivies, etc etc.

 

 

"Hey all. New here. Since coming off Lexapro (after being on from Mid 2007 to March 2010) I have experience a slow decline in my sexual function which platuead in about Febuary.

 

Generally speaking I feel unaware of my penis and sexual realm. I feel that has something to do with the pudendal nerve. Even when I can achieve an erection it is mostly numb. I cannot get visually aroused 98% of the time, and would be unable to have sex or feel intimacy at this point. This after enjoying 2 very good sexual relationships while on Lexapro. Keep in mind that the sex declined as the years went on on Lexapro. And I am only 23! Interestingly enough, the only facet of my sexual function that is somewhat intact is the actual orgasm which still feels really good.

 

Anyway. I have been over to the YAHOO PSSD group and seen the despair over there. It sounds like this is a permanent deal, although I have had many people try to convince me otherwise.

 

Any success stories out there>

 

"

Edited January 7, 2019 by ChessieCat
link

[Altostrata]

Welcome, PSSDnotforme.

 

I can say I have recovered completely from PSSD after 6.5 years. But I'm of the other gender and post-menopausal. I would think recovery would be faster for a younger person.

 

Sexual response is governed by a complex interplay of hormones, sexual and otherwise. PSSD is probably not a nerve issue per se. Lexapro and withdrawal have knocked your hormonal balance for a loop.

 

While the PSSD is most distressing to you, it is part and parcel of your other prolonged withdrawal symptoms. As they get better, your PSSD will get better.

 

It's a very good sign that pleasure in orgasm is still there!

[branyan]

Hey guys! Brunyan here from the old PP forums. I haven't written in any SSRI or related forum in almost 2 years now. The reason being? Things for the most part have been pretty damn great. My actual life is great. I have a great career started. I am finally independent and financially stable. I've had a couple of short relationships in between now and when Paxil Progress ended. During that sexual relationship I almost NEVER had one problem. Not only that, things were pretty freaking great in that department. I never had any problems getting it up, and sex was frequent and very good.

 

Now there is still some of the genital numbness, and spotty libido, but was scarcely a worry.

 

So. fast forward. We broke up. Not the right time in our lives, etc etc blah blah.

 

 

Now the libido and functioning goes right back down to nothing good. This has been the pattern in the post SSRI/PSSD world for almost 5-6 years now. In the relationship things work great. Outside of that relationship, even when by myself things just dont feel very good.

 

I realize how lucky I am. I'm grateful to have what I have. I'm so lucky. I'm not even really complaining. I just kind of needed to vent because its kind of scary. And in the past the one habit I've made is obsessively trying to hook up with girls or look at porn to keep testing if things are working. And I want to be a lone for a while and do some more soul searching. 

 

The last girl i was with I was very upfront about the PSSD stuff, and we took our time to get to sex and that made all the difference. I cannot discount the emotional and psychological part of it. It's almost as if the PSSD has made those components so strong that I am now 'demi-sexual". 

 

If you look that up it basically means you can't be aroused without an emotional connection..

 

I've got a lot of work to do in therapy to deal with this. I need to listen to my rational mind and not the fearful part. I can do this.

 

I'm of course open to any and all questions as I know that my story has been used as a success story for many people fearful of PSSD around the internet. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Branyan--  Welcome to the group, it's good to hear from you again.  Such an exciting update.  You've moved well past the struggles you were having at Prior Place.  When you get a chance would you please make an entry in the success stories thread, there are a lot of people here who would love to hear about it.  Especially the PSSD aspects. 

[branyan]

Thanks mate! Should I just copy and paste this into the recovery forum?

[brassmonkey]

That would be a good start. Some "before" information would be nice to let people know where you started.

[Altostrata]

Very happy to hear you're doing better. I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol

☼

to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.
 

branyan's story continues in the Success Stories forum here branyan PSSD success/challenges

[branyan]

Sadly, I'm back, with a different issue.

 

Hello!

sidenote: hello Altostrata my old (as in a long time ago, you’re not old) friend!

 

Many of you knew me a loooong time ago both here and from Paxilprogress. I made, and still have maintained an incredible recovery from PSSD. This is, even, after starting Remeron last December. It wasn't a choice for me, I had to get on the drug to save my own life. I don't regret that. The question is now how to get off. I am down to 7.5MG. The 'behind the glass" "anhedonia" and horrible fatigue and oversleeping is ruining me. 

 

Like I (mentioned, back in December I got on Remeron because of my Tinnitus. I am almost to the point where Tinnitus is a small issue. I have successfully largely habituated to the point where most days I don't even hear it, acknowledge it, or think much of it despite it being heard over any environmental sound. I worked with CBT for Tinnitus Experts and along with the medication calming me down I am now at place where it is not the major issue in my life.

 

The Remeron however is extremely sedating and gives me this "behind the glass" feeling that makes me feel slow, confused, and not "myself". This was tolerable for 6 months as the distress of the Tinnitus was a larger issue! Now the reverse is true. A ripple to that is I was diagnosed with "hypersomnia" last year (incidental discovery from sleep study). Suffice it to say that I am a bit more tired than others. The remeron piles on that tremendously. 

 

The other reason that my anxiety around this symptom has arose is that I just started a new job, which was huge for me! I habituated to my Tinnitus and got the confidence to get a new job! Now I am really feeling regret. I am traditionally really really bad with change. I am having a tremendous amount of negative thoughts around this. My feeling tired/out of it/behind the glass is contributing to a lot of self-worthlessness and feelings like a made a mistake getting a new job. I am of course working with a therapist on this right now.

 

This job is a typical 9-5 job unlike my previous job of being a Teacher. The fear of not being good enough has played into all of these symptoms tremendously and has put me back into a bit of a 'crisis" mode. I thought that maybe the feeling of being 'behind the glass "was just me, but then I read others reports of these exact feelings and a horrible feeling of "not being able to fully wake up". So I have discussed a taper with my psych. I am considering doing that with her help.

 

My fear of course is that I will taper, and then all sudden not be able to sleep, and then fail at work and get fired. Not to mention make my wife miserable. A friend of mine who went through Tinnitus Distress and came out the other side mentioned to me that before I took the Remeron (in December) (and after taking Zyprexa (in October) which calmed me down for 2 weeks) I was still fresh in learning about the distress. And that now that I am doing well with the Tinnitus, my brain won't forget what it learned. My Nurse Practicioner feels the same. They both feel that just because I get off a medication, doesn't mean your brain forgets the lesson. That is what habituation is.

 

What I hope will happen:

• I will get off the Remeron
• I will use Ativan as needed to manage any withdrawal symptoms
• My personality and energy will come back
• Because of the experience of using CBT/Mindfulness to deal with the Tinnitus I will have a new found strength with other issues and I will excel at both my job and in life with a new confidence.

 

What I fear will happen:

• I will get off the Remeron
• I won't be able to sleep and thus it will exacerbate my sleep issues
• I will become catastrophically anxious, and endanger myself and not be able to control a spiral
• I will get fired from my job
• I won't get the bounceback I want of feeling like "myself" and it will turn out that all those feelings were not real and that I am stuck feeling this horrible way forever.
• I will be stuck with anxiety, fog, fatigue and won't be able to be productive in society.
• Because I won't be able to take off work to manager the taper, the above will happen.
•  

This 'spiral' of sorts started about 3 weeks ago. I need someone to bounce these ideas off of.

 

Thank you so much

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Onmyway]

Hi @branyan,

These sound like thought distortions to me and will need working with your therapist on them.

 

1. Whether you made a mistake going into this new drug or not is irrelevant now, it's done. No use ruminating over it.

 

2. None of us know what will happen when you taper from your drug before you taper, it's impossible to predict. What we know is that whatever does happen will resolve to normal eventually whether it's a difficult process or not.

 

3. You're wondering if you made a mistake getting a job and are also worried about losing it. If it's not strictly necessary to have this job then losing it won't have big consequences it seems. So no use worrying about it.

 

4. The behind the glass feeling may abate as you lower your dose even if you don't come off of the drug completely.

 

I'm not giving you links on proper tapering as you're a veteran here but let me know if you need assistance with that.

 

I think you need to invest some time in learning anxiety management techniques - CBT or Claire Weekes both have videos and info online.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Onmyway

[branyan]

3 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi @branyan,

These sound like thought distortions to me and will need working with your therapist on them.

 

1. Whether you made a mistake going into this new drug or not is irrelevant now, it's done. No use ruminating over it.

 

Hi @Onmyway. I totally agree (about the thought distortions). I did it I needed to, and I am here now. (taking the drug)

 

Quote

2. None of us know what will happen when you taper from your drug before you taper, it's impossible to predict. What we know is that whatever does happen will resolve to normal eventually whether it's a difficult process or not.

I think the part where I am stuck in the distortions is that since I have been on the drug 6 months (and was off medications for 10 years), It's hard to remember what the "real" me felt like and if I will be able to tell the difference. I know that when I took Zyprexa last year for a month or so, I felt that "real" me when I got off of it, so I am hoping the same happens here.

 

 

Quote

3. You're wondering if you made a mistake getting a job and are also worried about losing it. If it's not strictly necessary to have this job then losing it won't have big consequences it seems. So no use worrying about it.

This is a big distortions. I probably won't lose the job, and I have already gotten good marks from my boss there. I think learning, last year, that I had Narcolepsy/Hypersomnia has made me obsessive about any tiredness I feel. Subsequent usage of forums for this issue (Sleep disorders) where people go on their and despair about being "disabled" has made me turn inwards with this thinking. Suffice it to say, but I would have had this sleeping disorder since adolescence. It wouldn't be new, per se.

 

It would be not good if I did lose the job, and would jeopardize paying the rent and my marriage, possibly, but again I don't think that will happen. 

 

Quote

4. The behind the glass feeling may abate as you lower your dose even if you don't come off of the drug completely.

I am now down to 3.75 this morning. Even though I didn't sleep great, I do feel a little less of that feeling. We will see if that lasts. 

 

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts. This is a challenging time in my life, like back in 2011 when I got on the paxilprogress forums. I made it out of the that time in my life and did amazing things.

 

I still have to get more sleep tests which may give me access to medications that could help with that, so I am trying to keep the positive that this could result in a better quality of life. 

 

I hope you have a a wonderful day ❤️

 

 

[Onmyway]

@branyandid you drop your dosage by 50% if you are at 3.75? You know that SA does not support lowering your dose by more than 10% of your previous dose. We can't support you through a fast taper given that you know better. We don't have tools to reverse the destabilization that follows. 

 

You are obsessed with some version of a 'real me' but we change all the time. The 'me' from a year ago is not the same one now - that's life. What's important is whether you are able to participate in life, enjoy yourself etc. 

 

I'd reverse the 50% drop and do a proper taper (10%) especially because you've had difficulty withdrawing before.

 

Omw

[branyan]

10 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

@branyandid you drop your dosage by 50% if you are at 3.75? You know that SA does not support lowering your dose by more than 10% of your previous dose. We can't support you through a fast taper given that you know better. We don't have tools to reverse the destabilization that follows. 

 

You are obsessed with some version of a 'real me' but we change all the time. The 'me' from a year ago is not the same one now - that's life. What's important is whether you are able to participate in life, enjoy yourself etc. 

 

I'd reverse the 50% drop and do a proper taper (10%) especially because you've had difficulty withdrawing before.

 

Omw

@Onmyway

 

I totally understand what you are saying. I am doing the taper from the advice of the prescriber. But I understand you cannot support me if I choose to do it differently than you recommend. I respect that.

 

You are right about the "real me" comments. There is a lot of truth there.

 

I am struggling with bad quality sleep and extreme lethargy while trying to get treatment for my sleep disorder. While I am exhausted everyday, I am trying my best and getting good marks at work. So I know I just need to stay strong and keep moving forward until I receive the proper treatment and care for that issue.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. If I choose to restore to a 10% taper I will keep you all posted. Thanks again for your help!

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:58 PM, branyan said:

The question is now how to get off. I am down to 7.5MG. The 'behind the glass" "anhedonia" and horrible fatigue and oversleeping is ruining me. 

 

How has your symptom pattern changed as you've reduced?

 

16 hours ago, branyan said:

I am now down to 3.75 this morning. Even though I didn't sleep great, I do feel a little less of that feeling. We will see if that lasts. 

 

This is quite a drop. It may take some time for you to feel the entire effect of it. 

 

If you didn't have this excessive sleepiness problem before you took Remeron, why do you think you have narcolepsy, hypersomnia, or a sleep disorder now? It sounds like you're experiencing a common drug adverse effect.

[branyan]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

How has your symptom pattern changed as you've reduced?

 

 

This is quite a drop. It may take some time for you to feel the entire effect of it. 

 

If you didn't have this excessive sleepiness problem before you took Remeron, why do you think you have narcolepsy, hypersomnia, or a sleep disorder now? It sounds like you're experiencing a common drug adverse effect.

Hi @Altostrata! So great to hear from you. I hope you are doing well.

 

I am after the 2nd night of 3.75. So far both nights I have had insomnia. However, my Tinnitus pre-dates the Remeron and often keeps me from deep sleep. Whereas before the Remeron, the Tinnitus no longer causes many issues during the day, I now have trouble sleeping through the night. So I am exhausted and irritable, again, today. I am hoping that the rebound insomnia, gets better. But the feeling of not being behind glass which I have now is very very welcome. I plan to stay here at 3.75 for a while.

 

I had a sleep study last June where they (preliminarily) diagnosed this issue. The diagnosis is not totally confirmed yet. I sought out the sleep study because I couldn't sleep because of the Tinnitus. The Remeron (which I started taking in December) made me sleep through the night. But it also made me sleep 10+ hours, that were not restful. I would wake up feeling groggy and "Behind glass". I would argue it was the anti-histamine properties. 

 

Before the Tinnitus (Developed April of last year, out of the blue) I believe I was tired, but I never thought of it as a problem. I took naps where I needed, and caught up on my sleep deficit. At current, I dont really have that ability, as when I lie down for naps I don't fall fully asleep. 😞

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, branyan said:

I had a sleep study last June where they (preliminarily) diagnosed this issue. The diagnosis is not totally confirmed yet. I sought out the sleep study because I couldn't sleep because of the Tinnitus. The Remeron (which I started taking in December) made me sleep through the night. But it also made me sleep 10+ hours, that were not restful. I would wake up feeling groggy and "Behind glass". I would argue it was the anti-histamine properties. 

 

If they diagnosed hypersomnia while you were taking Remeron, they cannot be good diagnosticians. Sleepiness is a very common effect of the drug.

 

7 hours ago, branyan said:

I am hoping that the rebound insomnia, gets better. But the feeling of not being behind glass which I have now is very very welcome. I plan to stay here at 3.75 for a while.

 

Yes, if you taper too fast, you might get rebound insomnia.

 

This does not seem that complicated to me. You probably want to find a dosage of mirtazapine where it helps your tinnitus but does not cause excessive sleepiness.

 

I hope you get accustomed to the new lower dosage soon. If you want to decrease further, you might taper more carefully. Otherwise, I can't see how we can help you. In the meantime, here are tips to aid sleep:

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

[branyan]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

If they diagnosed hypersomnia while you were taking Remeron, they cannot be good diagnosticians. Sleepiness is a very common effect of the drug.

 

 

Yes, if you taper too fast, you might get rebound insomnia.

 

This does not seem that complicated to me. You probably want to find a dosage of mirtazapine where it helps your tinnitus but does not cause excessive sleepiness.

 

I hope you get accustomed to the new lower dosage soon. If you want to decrease further, you might taper more carefully. Otherwise, I can't see how we can help you. In the meantime, here are tips to aid sleep:

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

 

The hypersomnia was diagnosed when I was completely medication free.

 

 

The 3.75 dose seems like a good place for me to say for now. Between not feeling weird anymore and the other drug I take to stay alert, life is tolerable/doable for now. I don't think I will be shifting the dose any time soon.

 

Thank you for your help! And thank you for your links for sleep 🙂

[branyan]

Hello all! I hope everyone is doing well. Happy new year to all and happy and hopeful recovery to all.

 

Unfortunately, with some stressors between my mothers terminal illness with ALS, and some personal issues with myself, I was suicidal and checked myself into a hospital about three weeks ago. I am on Zyprexa, which I think I need to stay on for the near future for my mental health and stability. It's really not an option at this point. I am bipolar and I can't go back to the way things were before. The medication helps a lot and I feel a lot better. During my time at the hospital I was convinced to try Viiybyrd the SSRI antidepressant. For those of you who know my history from Paxil progress or here, you can understand how that was a literal last resort for me. I was only on it for about seven days and I am now off of it.

 

I am experiencing some difficulty achieve an orgasm. Of course  can't know if that's because of the Zyprexa or if that's because I took an SSRI pill for seven days, or if some of it is mental at this point. I've read that Zyprexa raises prolactin, which can cause difficulty achieve an orgasm, but it only raises the prolactin for six weeks or so. Previously I was on Remeron and did not have these issues. I am seeing my psychiatrist tonight and we are going to discuss perhaps what the best option is. I lasted 12 years off medication and I'm proud that I did that and I had a very good sex life and recovered mostly from PSSD, but in this current situation I'm in in my life I don't think I can be off medication entirely. I'm hoping I can get my ease of achieving orgasm back but I understand it's possible with the medication I'm on I might not. I just wanted to see if anybody had any thoughts.

[getofflex]

Previous post moved to your intro topic to keep your history all in one place.  Please post questions and discussion about your situation in this one thread, to avoid confusion and duplication of efforts.  Thank you.  

[branyan]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:26 AM, branyan said:

Hello all! I hope everyone is doing well. Happy new year to all and happy and hopeful recovery to all.

 

Unfortunately, with some stressors between my mothers terminal illness with ALS, and some personal issues with myself, I was suicidal and checked myself into a hospital about three weeks ago. I am on Zyprexa, which I think I need to stay on for the near future for my mental health and stability. It's really not an option at this point. I am bipolar and I can't go back to the way things were before. The medication helps a lot and I feel a lot better. During my time at the hospital I was convinced to try Viiybyrd the SSRI antidepressant. For those of you who know my history from Paxil progress or here, you can understand how that was a literal last resort for me. I was only on it for about seven days and I am now off of it.

 

I am experiencing some difficulty achieve an orgasm. Of course  can't know if that's because of the Zyprexa or if that's because I took an SSRI pill for seven days, or if some of it is mental at this point. I've read that Zyprexa raises prolactin, which can cause difficulty achieve an orgasm, but it only raises the prolactin for six weeks or so. Previously I was on Remeron and did not have these issues. I am seeing my psychiatrist tonight and we are going to discuss perhaps what the best option is. I lasted 12 years off medication and I'm proud that I did that and I had a very good sex life and recovered mostly from PSSD, but in this current situation I'm in in my life I don't think I can be off medication entirely. I'm hoping I can get my ease of achieving orgasm back but I understand it's possible with the medication I'm on I might not. I just wanted to see if anybody had any thoughts.

 

 

Well I am back, with not so good news. I am posting a bit of the message that I wrote to a fellow member who helped me so much back in the Paxilprogress days.

 

"

Well I made it about 10 years medication free. I was doing really well, and my PSSD while on and off was basically a non issue. When it was off my sex life with my wife was great, when it was on it went back to numb/muted bad ED etc. My brain rewired itself in the context of an emotional relationship. But outside of a relationship it was a dead circuit. In the marriage it was on and off but it always went back to good. It was a non issue in my life. I often had really really really good sex. In any case I got tinnitus, freaked out, and then my mom became terminally ill with ALS. In the last two years (I am now med free) I have been on

 

Mirtazipine for 5 months

Off of meds for 2 months

On mirtazpiine for a month

Off. for 2 weeks

On Wellbutrin + lithium

Off meds for 3 weeks

On vibbyrd for 1 week

On zyprexa for one month

Off

On Remeron for 2 weeks

Off meds.

 

The PSSD is back. I am worried it is now totally permanent. I had to go on medication as I would have comitted suicide, but now I have adjusted to the Tinnitus and desperately am hoping for the PSSD to resolve again. But I am worried it cannot after I bombarded myself with medications again. I hope to god I am wrong.

 

Any thoughts on the chances it could resolve again?"

[Onmyway]

Hi @branyan

I am sorry to see you have had a setback. We often see people who have gone through WD get setbacks when trying other psychoactive substances even years out. Sorry this happened to you. 

 

As you know, we can't predict how you will fare and how long it will take you to recover but we observe that people do recover from this over time as well. NO reason to think this will be permanent. Do what you did last time that helped you and wait for the nervous system to reset itself again. 

OMW

[branyan]

1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

Hi @branyan

I am sorry to see you have had a setback. We often see people who have gone through WD get setbacks when trying other psychoactive substances even years out. Sorry this happened to you. 

 

As you know, we can't predict how you will fare and how long it will take you to recover but we observe that people do recover from this over time as well. NO reason to think this will be permanent. Do what you did last time that helped you and wait for the nervous system to reset itself again. 

OMW

 

Hello! Thank you for your kind response. It's much appreciated. I was a contemporary of @Altostrata, @lossleader, @brassmonkey and a few other in the old paxilprogess days.

 

In any case I am trying not to beat myself up too much. I did what I had to do to survive, but I may have also messed with my very delicate chemistry. The last time, many many moons ago (12+ years ago!!!) I poured myself into music, exercise, good sleep, and positive thinking that I could recover. I am having (perhaps) distorted thinking that this time I finally killed the circuit. Although its really hard to tell as I never had a 100% recovery from PSSD but I did recover to the point where I was very happy with things and it was a non-issue in a relationship for the most part. When i first I had SSRI/med  withdrawal I had

 

• Bad anhedondia
• Bad brain fog
• inability to feel romance or love
• Insomnia 
• Pleasureless orgasms
• anorgasma
• little ejactulate
• clear ejaculate
• numb genitals
• Inability to achieve or maintain an erection
• Inability to feel sexual attraction
• no morning erections

This all fixed itself to some degree or another. What I found out was that by myself the PSSD seemed to remain. In the presence of a girl or romantic partner the PSSD would persistently rewire itself. I would then have.

 

• The ability to get erections from kissing
• the ability to maintain erections during sex
• the ability to have extremely pleasureful erections
• my ejaculate came back full and white
• the ability to have sex up to 3 times a day
• voracious sexual appetite 
• The ability to get an erection from fantasy
• The ability to achieve orgasm much easier
• frequent morning erections

I use the word persistently because even in the context of the relationship sometimes things would swing back to the previous category. But this would happen and it would resolve always. So I stopped worrying about it really. I often thought to myself: "i don't have PSSD anymore".

 

Now I can't be certain that I am not just experiencing a protracted down window because of the stress in my life (my marriage suffered from the last hear, my dying mother and other life stressed) but I get the sense that all the meds I was on play a role.

 

Right now my sexual feelings are in the former category although there have been a few signs of life like

 

• still the ability to feel romantic attraction
• still the ability to briefly feel the sexual attraction/warmness
• still the ability to briefly get a partial erection from kiss
• still the ability to infrequently get pleasureful erections
• still some morning erections

Here is to hoping my brain can rewire and heal again.

 

Any other advice, or words of encouragement would be very welcome ❤️

[Onmyway]

Dear @branyan, 

I have hidden your previous post due to your very graphic descriptions of bodily functions/states. These do not contribute to the discussion and we don't need to know the details, so please refrain from posting such. You are welcome to post the previous post edited for those descriptions.

OMW

[branyan]

Ok, can I understand where the line is? I felt as though I was explaing my symptoms very maturely. I am not ashamed of my body. 

[Altostrata]

Appreciate your attention to this, @Onmyway, but I'm going to unhide the post for the information of other PSSD sufferers.

 

@branyan really sorry you're back in the soup again. You've been through all of this before. I would have hoped that you understood that you'd still be vulnerable to the adverse effects of going on and off psychiatric drugs and avoided falling into the trap again. If I were you, I would decline psychiatric drugs hereafter.

 

We don't have any answers for you. You'll probably have to cope with slow recovery again. As you know,  many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. Please let us know how you’re doing.

[branyan]

17 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Appreciate your attention to this, @Onmyway, but I'm going to unhide the post for the information of other PSSD sufferers.

 

@branyan really sorry you're back in the soup again. You've been through all of this before. I would have hoped that you understood that you'd still be vulnerable to the adverse effects of going on and off psychiatric drugs and avoided falling into the trap again. If I were you, I would decline psychiatric drugs hereafter.

 

We don't have any answers for you. You'll probably have to cope with slow recovery again. As you know,  many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. Please let us know how you’re doing.

 

Thanks, @Altostrata! It was an incredibly risky decision for me. I rolled the dice and knew the risks. But I don't know if I would be here if I didn't make it. I was actively suicidal and needed something to slow the burn. Fortunately, I am much better and feel more confident in leading my life free of the medications. I suppose I am in uncharted territory. I do wonder if I pushed my body past what it's capable of repairing at this point, but there is no way to know really. 

 

I there any precedent for it that you are aware of? Is there reason to be hopeful that I can heal again? As you know from many of my previous posts that healing for me doesn't mean things get 100% better. It just means they get to a point where things are satisfactory to me. 

 

Good to hear from you and thanks for having me here, again.

 

-B

[Altostrata]

I'm shaking my head here, @branyan. Occasionally, we have people who went through a painful tapering process and come back some years later wanting to go off a different batch of drugs. Then they suffer through tapering again, or maybe give up and stay on the drugs.

 

I can't think of anyone who was lucky enough to recover from PSSD and then voluntarily got on the drug merry-go-round again knowing that they are vulnerable to drug-induced sexual dysfunction.

 

I suppose you might recover as you did before. We don't have a collection of cases showing this.

[branyan]

26 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I'm shaking my head here, @branyan. Occasionally, we have people who went through a painful tapering process and come back some years later wanting to go off a different batch of drugs. Then they suffer through tapering again, or maybe give up and stay on the drugs.

 

I can't think of anyone who was lucky enough to recover from PSSD and then voluntarily got on the drug merry-go-round again knowing that they are vulnerable to drug-induced sexual dysfunction.

 

I suppose you might recover as you did before. We don't have a collection of cases showing this.

I understand your incredulity. I was not in a logical place. I had taken action to take my life, and the only way I got back to the place I am now, which is stable, was through medications. I took a gamble and the side effect of that was PSSD, but I am happy to be alive.

 

I don't believe I simply could have willed myself out of suicidality. I had already been in intensive talk therapy, CBT therapy, and more. I not only had to make the decision for myself, but I had to taken into account my family, my wife and my friends. I was out of control and threatening suicide daily. I am bipolar and with my mom dying and the Tinnitus it was more than I could handle. I am happy I sought help. I am immensely proud of myself.

 

I understand this forum is strictly anti-psych drugs. I am not here to promote them. I made a decision and am dealing with the consequences. As a man and a person, I own it. Given the outcome I have now, I would have made the decision again. It saved my life. I am proud that I am now in a position to be off the medication and be stable. Hopefully, I can recover again. I came here for support for that issue. If people don't approve of my decision I can deal with that fine. I am not for or against psych medications.

 

I am grateful for any support now that I am medication free. If people can provide that I am all ears. 

 

-B

[Altostrata]

Not knowing what was troubling you, I don't know the answer to that question. But apparently you voluntarily decided to risk long-term sexual dysfunction again, and the risk was worth it to you then. Only you can know if your current uncertainty was worth it.

[branyan]

6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Not knowing what was troubling you, I don't know the answer to that question. But apparently you voluntarily decided to risk long-term sexual dysfunction again, and the risk was worth it to you then. Only you can know if your current uncertainty was worth it.

The fact that I am here now typing this to you is proof it was worth it. My life is more than my sexuality. I understood the risks. I don't know if you have ever faced suicidal thoughts or attempts. It's a horrible place to be. I wouldn't wish it on you or anyone. It's not something you can man up, through.

 

But if you simply want to chide me for my adult decision, then perhaps I am in the wrong place. I will not apologize for taking care of my mental health and my family. 

 

I do, however, apologize if I have upset the balance of things here or suggested that my way of thinking was good, when you see things very differently. If my opinions are at odds with what you all do here, then I will kindly bow out and not cause you any trouble. It is not, and was not my intention to do so.

 

I understand the focus of the work you do here, and perhaps I should have thought of that before asking for advice, again.

[Altostrata]

Not sure what you're looking for here. You're the only person who can validate your decision.

 

Since you already went through a long recovery process, you already knew the answer to your questions before you posted.

 

You believe you made the right decision, but you paid a price. I'm sorry we can't make this easier for you.

[branyan]

Just now, Altostrata said:

Not sure what you're looking for here. You're the only person who can validate your decision.

 

Since you already went through a long recovery process, you already knew the answer to your questions before you posted.

 

You believe you made the right decision, but you paid a price. I'm sorry we can't make this easier for you.

 

Here is what I am looking for. I am trying to understand a discrepancy. 

 

When I was with and around you in the Paxil Progress days the main thrust of that website was that everybody recovers to some degree or another. In fact, I have a lot of posts saved that more or less say this. Now to be fair, it wasn't mainly you. It was Scotty and many others like yourself that said this. I survived and had hope because people told me to hold on for the "windows and waves" of recovery. And they were right. I recovered.

 

What I am hearing from you now is:

 

Some people recover, but not all. You were lucky to recover from PSSD and for most it's permanent. 

 

These ideologies are very at odds with each other. Perhaps I am misrepresenting what you are saying, or misunderstanding. Or perhaps in the years since, with more data, you have decided on a different outlook.

 

Could you clear that up for me?

 

 

[Altostrata]

I have no idea what's in store for you, @branyan We have not seen anyone whose gone back for a second round of PSSD after recovery over many years. Perhaps you will be the first to say you've recovered a second time.

 

That is exactly as far as I can go in reassuring you that you will recover.

[branyan]

52 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I have no idea what's in store for you, @branyan We have not seen anyone whose gone back for a second round of PSSD after recovery over many years. Perhaps you will be the first to say you've recovered a second time.

 

That is exactly as far as I can go in reassuring you that you will recover.

 

Well I came here for support in encouragement in going off of medications, which is what this website is about. 

 

Instead, I left with a tongue-lashing and lecture on why taking medications to save my life was a bad idea and why I should be ashamed of myself making such a decision. I am shocked at the apathy you are displaying.  You are almost going so far as to infer I deserve to feel this way. As someone that proclaims to be in the "mental health" business, this is shocking behavior. I can't imagine a therapist or a counselor ever speaking to me this way. 

 

The @Altostratai remembered from Paxil Progress was kind, magnanimous, and prescient. I am not sure what changed in the years since we have spoken Adele. I pray you can find it in your heart to have more compassion and less judgment. If you want to help people, which I believe you do, you cannot speak to people this way. People manage there mental health in many ways. Medications, talk therapy CBT, psychedelic. You name it. Being black and white about treatments people choose to use for THEIR mental health is oversimplified and regressive. I have immense problems with Big Pharma, OBVIOUSLY, considering my PSSD. But I can also understand that medications help people too. You don't tell schizophrenics to get off medication. You don't tell severely bi-polar to get off medications. Some people need medications permanently. Some for just a time. And some not at all. Its a personal choice that people make and you have no right to judge them. 

 

As someone that has a breadth of life experience I would think that you would appreciate that MUCH of life is a cost-benefit analysis and you make decisions based on the great or greatest good. I don't live my life purely on preventing PSSD for the rest of my life. I may also not have the same chemical makeup as you and your inference that any and all people can simply will their way through life is incredibly dangerous.

 

The aim of this website was to support people in getting off medication when they make that choice. Not to judge them.

I came here to get advice on the "expert" in "withdrawalology" about my prospects of recovery. Instead, you used it as an opportunity to talk down to me and chide me. Unbelievable. 

 

if you want to ban me or lock my topic, that is up to you, but I will not be addressed this way.

 

-B

 

 

[Altostrata]

You are mistaken. I'm not prescient, and I cannot tell you when and if you should heal from this latest turn of events.

 

I did not cause your problem. Please stop attempting to reassign blame to me for your own internal conflict about taking the risk of PSSD again. You also need to accept that your future is uncertain. Even though I'm sympathetic to your frustration, I cannot fix this for you.

 

I'm kinda done with your projecting your problem onto me, if you know what I mean.

[branyan]

11 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You are mistaken. I'm not prescient, and I cannot tell you when and if you should heal from this latest turn of events.

 

I did not cause your problem. Please stop attempting to reassign blame to me for your own internal conflict about taking the risk of PSSD again. You also need to accept that your future is uncertain. Even though I'm sympathetic to your frustration, I cannot fix this for you.

 

I'm kinda done with your projecting your problem onto me, if you know what I mean.

 

I never once did that. I accepted full responsibility for my decision. I took issue what felt like you saying 'I told you so' and it considering that if It were possible to have made any other decision than the one I made, I would have made it. This hurt my feelings, and you seem to think that that is my problem.

 

If we can move forward I would still love your viewpoint on the above question:

Quote

When I was with and around you in the Paxil Progress days the main thrust of that website was that everybody recovers to some degree or another. In fact, I have a lot of posts saved that more or less say this. Now to be fair, it wasn't mainly you. It was Scotty and many others like yourself that said this. I survived and had hope because people told me to hold on for the "windows and waves" of recovery. And they were right. I recovered.

 

What I am hearing from you now is:

 

Some people recover, but not all. You were lucky to recover from PSSD and for most it's permanent. 

 

These ideologies are very at odds with each other. Perhaps I am misrepresenting what you are saying, or misunderstanding. Or perhaps in the years since, with more data, you have decided on a different outlook.

 

Could you clear that up for me?

 

 

I am not asking you to fortune tell my future. I am asking your for expert opinion. In other words, if the viewpoint that PSSD is permanent nerve damage, perhaps that can't heal much. If it is hormonal balance, perhaps that CAN heal. I don't think in terms of 100% or 0% recovery. I am evidence that much of my recovery was MORE than good enough. I am confident I will heal again. I was interested in your scientific view of PSSD/SSRI/Medication withdrawal/damage and your viewpoint of how it improves. I.ie persistent vs permanent changes.

 

 

Thank you.

[Altostrata]

I have told you several times that I don't know. That is my scientific view.