☼ primrose: Tapering off Valium, others

[Jemima]

This topic was moved from the Tapering discussion to the Intro because of the personal nature of the information sought.

 

In addition to what Rhi said, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy would be a far better move than an antidepressant. IMO, depression is caused either by an undiagnosed medical condition, such as hypothyroidism, or by faulty thinking, such as being convinced that life should be fair.  All antidepressants do is numb a person's emotions, which solves no problems at all, and it adds a lot of risks such as weight gain, diabetes, heart problems, vital organ damage or failure, senility and Parkinson's disease in later life, and a host of other dangers. We have at least one member who now has a Multiple Sclerosis-like disease from taking antidepressants. (See: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2477-aria-my-psych-journey/?hl=aria). Add to that, most honest studies have shown that a placebo is as effective as an antidepressant in many cases, and pursuing the Magic Pill doesn't make much sense. There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance, a theory that has never been proven and that has been recanted by the American Psychiatric Association.

 

Please read Whitaker's book, and as many individual stories as you can tolerate in the Intro section. Going on these very questionable drugs is asking for big trouble. Please see: http://www.bollyn.com/how-do-ssri-antidepressants-work

[primrose]

Hi evreyone and thanks for the links.

I just ate a probiotic yoghurt, I like those activia so that's good.

I don't eat them every day, I get them as a treat, and as I wasn't looking for a change in mood, I didn't notice one. I have felt up and down so maybe the ups were on the days when I ate those activia yoghurts.

I will monitor it more closely.

I've recently gone gluten free, two weeks ago. While it cured my IBS and the HRT I have been on for six months, suddenly started doing it's job (it hadn't been working up till then) I guess I can expect to wait a while before it has any effect on my depression and anxiety. I will probably buy more activia now though.

I could put some gluten free cereal in it.

 

You are of course, right about going onto more drugs, what you say makes sense.

I can't wait to get my personality back.

I don't seem to have noticed any difference in my moods since I started tapering the seroquel.

I was only on a low dose though, 100mg a day.

The trazodone could be numbing my mind.

 

Thanks, you have given me things to think about.

[primrose]

Hi

 

Well, I've been off benzos for about four months now, and it's great.

Every day I thank my lucky stars that I got off benzos.

The alchohol has crept back in again, got drinking thoughts out of the blue after 5 years dry, I enjoyed it, but not every day.

I can speak really highly of daily micro cuts, but each person has their own preferred taper method.

All you people on here who are tapering benzos, I know you will get off too.

 

I am down from 300mg trazodone to 150mg. I feel much better on 150mg. I'm not keen on this drug, but I am staying at 150mg for the time being, it's strange how I feel better on 150mg, than I did at 300mg. I feel much less zombified.

I am down to 18.75mg seroquel.

I'm taking promethazine instead, and it works much better on my anxiety than seroquel. I take that, and propranolol prn, so my useage varies. On the days I take these I take 10mg propranolol and no more than 50mg promethazine.

 

I hope everyone on here is doing really well too.

[andy]

hello Primrose ,good to hear your positive story,

I was on quetiapine it did nothing good for me ,it only knocked me out and give me a migraine

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, primrose. Please continue to add your updates to this your Intro topic so we can all see how far you've come and how you did it!

[Altostrata]

primrose, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol

☼

to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

[primrose]

Sorry to ressurect this old thread, but I googled trazodone taper and this thread came up.

I thought I would share my experience, as it's probably good for my depression if I write about it.

I hope its of interest to read, and I hope it helps future trazodone taperers.

 

I'm tapering down off trazodone at the moment. I started around last october and the cuts were really seldom, just a bit here, a bit off there, with huge gaps inbetween.

I managed to get down to 100mgs a day now, and I have noticed ennui creep in, boredom, lack of interest, more temptation to indulge in bad habits.

I've been cutting every two weeks, but I am flexible and don't mind hanging around at a certain cut if I feel ok.

I like the sound of the fish oil, but I don't know if the only effective ones are expensive, and I don't have the funds for the forseeable future to buy really expensive supplements.

I was taking ashwagandha, but I thouht I would start taking lemon balm, which is really relaxing.

I had it with valerian and a promethazine last night and i slept really well.

I've only got 150mg pills to work with and I admit, it's not really accurate.

I take a third of a pill twice a day and use a blade to cut them.

This is getting difficult now, so I am going to get some 50mg tablets and hang around a bit on two of these a day.

They'll be easier to cut and divide as well, they've got a score in.

I've got some worries with money at the moment, which doesn't help.

I don't even know if I am going to do a liquid daily taper on these pills. On the one hand it will be easier and smoother, if my benzo-micro taper is anything to go by, where I arrived at 0mg with zero benzo withdrawal symptoms.

The trouble is, it's not soluble, but I'm glad Rhi is doing a video http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8313-input-for-a-video-about-liquid-tapering/#entry132314

[primrose]

Hello, back again.

Dunno if anyone's read the above post.

Maybe I should have started another thread, but I don't mind so long as no one else does.

I am noticing that I am feeling a bit pi$$ed off with people.

I don't know if this is the trazodone taper's effect or people genuinely pi$$ing me off, for instance, a friend ringing my doorbell at nearly 2am asking for a spare cigarette.

Other things like that, but I won't waste time posting.

I haven't cut for a week, as I have been cutting fortnightly lately, but, I am ever flexible.

Approx 50mgs is still helping me sleep on a night which is ok, but I know I have to learn to cope without trazodone. It will be a release of the ball and chain, because I genuinely feel that trazodone has dulled my senses and made me less creative. I used to do lots of art, now I hardly do any and any I do is sh1t. hahahhah bye for now.

[Altostrata]

primrose, good to hear from you. I moved your posts here, to your Intro topic, which is where you can put updates about your tapering.

 

As we've discussed before, you can make a suspension from a drug that is not technically soluble. See Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

Please bookmark this topic and let us know how you're doing.

[primrose]

primrose, good to hear from you. I moved your posts here, to your Intro topic, which is where you can put updates about your tapering.

 

As we've discussed before, you can make a suspension from a drug that is not technically soluble. See Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

Please bookmark this topic and let us know how you're doing.

Hi Alto

 

Thanks, I am doing ok.

Cutting the 150mg pills into thirds was a pain in the but, so I have now cut them in quarters and reduced to 75mg a day, 37.5mgs twice a day.  I'll see how I go.

[Rhiannon]

As long as the pill itself will dissolve, you can make a liquid suspension. You tapered off Valium and it isn't soluble (no, not even in milk); what you had there was also a suspension. So it's quite do-able. 

 

It's very difficult to get really accurate dosing by cutting pills, unless you use a scale, and even then one half or the other will be too small so you have to shave the larger half down to get your exact amount. Quarters are even trickier, you might be able to get two pieces that are the right amount.

 

Try dropping one pill into a glass of water and just see how long it takes to dissolve. If it does dissolve eventually, you can liquid taper it.

[primrose]

As long as the pill itself will dissolve, you can make a liquid suspension. You tapered off Valium and it isn't soluble (no, not even in milk); what you had there was also a suspension. So it's quite do-able. 

 

It's very difficult to get really accurate dosing by cutting pills, unless you use a scale, and even then one half or the other will be too small so you have to shave the larger half down to get your exact amount. Quarters are even trickier, you might be able to get two pieces that are the right amount.

 

Try dropping one pill into a glass of water and just see how long it takes to dissolve. If it does dissolve eventually, you can liquid taper it.

Hi Rhiannon

 

I got off the valium beautifully, thanks to the milk and pills. The benzo is fat soluble and the fat globules in the homomenized milk are evenly distributed enough to form a 'soloution within a suspension'.

I got to 0mg with no valium withdrawals, they seemed to fade down when Idid a daily taper.

I mistook menopausal flushes for pill withdrawal sweats. I thought menopause happened in the early 50's but I started it in my early forties. I spoke to my GP who said that my ovaries just stopped doing their job in my early forties and that some women get earlier menopauses.

I tried to dissolve a trazodone in water and it just formed an uneven mix, it looked like a 'cloud' suspended in the liquid, quite strange and less 'dissolvable' than the seroquel, as that formed an cloudy mix, but it was even and it was ok provided I shook it, whereas the trazodone was very uneven.

I'm getting 50mg pills, which are scored and much easier to break.

I admit I am lazy with cutting the pills.

I am getting some sadness and some anger, but knowing that this is related to coming off trazodone, makes me feel better, as I know it's not just me.

I am also waiting for an ADHD assessment, as the doctors and autism assessor suspect that I have ADHD.

I don't know if I will be going on ADHD meds, as I am very untrusting of all psychiatric meds now.

I think I just want to be med free.

[primrose]

Just an update.

It's really tough tapering off trazodone.

To be honest, though, I have missed a few doses, so I can't blame it all on the taper.

Trazodone does not help my depression, however, reducing it produces it.

I'm still also taking illlicit substances but not going crazy.

Have been drinking a bit, but not every day.

I just want my mood to lift so I can go out, because I can't at the moment, because when I see my friends, they know something is wrong, by looking at my face and noticing how quiet I am. Some of these people around me have their own struggles, so I try not to complain and keep out of the way, if I feel I am going to hog all the attention.

[primrose]

Latest update, off trazodone now. Was cutting a 50mg pill in half twice a day, but started failing to take my meds, as you need to eat before trazodone and I got lazy.

Same with the seroquel taper. Im not getting WD's but I did get some crying spells coming of traz and when I get negative thoughts I reming myself that I am possibly still in slight traz withdrawal.

I would never advise anyone to be lazy and stop taking their meds, cos you never know how you will react.

Apparently for some, psych med withdrawal can be as bad as benzo WD and I just got sick of  the ball and chain around my neck with psych meds.

I still take promethazine and propranolol PRN and this is better for me, no ball and chain, and no having to remember to take meds.

[primrose]

Just an update.

I am glad to be off AD meds, and antipsych and benzos, which I have to take regularly, but since coming off the trazodone I have had a period of lowered mood and more irritabiity, so i have been drinking, etc, to get through the day.

I should have tapered slower, as I came off at 25mg.

I'd heard loads of horror stories onlie about trazodone withdrawal, but I thought they were extreme cases.

I was just too lazy to taper, slower, having come through a benzo taper and an antipsychotic taper.

I don't know how long this lowered mood will last, but I hope it goes soon.

I have been off about five weeks now and I dont want to go back on them.

I was already depressed as hell on them and they didnt seem to work, on them for 6 years at 450mg-300mg-and downwards till 25mg then Omg. Funny how an ineffective drug can make you more depressed when you come off them.

Anyway, that was the update.

 

Bottom line, Depression, should have tapered slower, couldn't be arsed and now have worse depression and anxiety, but glad I am not tied to a regular script anymore.

[alex]

"Drinking,etc...."

I don`t know what the "etc" means, but alcohol by itself, is a big depressor.

Wrong path my friend...

[primrose]

 

 

"Drinking,etc...."

I don`t know what the "etc" means, but alcohol by itself, is a big depressor.

Wrong path my friend...

I know it is, I've always struggled with addiction.

[primrose]

When I say addicion, I mean psychological addiction.

[primrose]

Gone and got myself a lyrica habit, aw, well, can only stabilise and taper off now.

 

I have been pm'ing Skyler and have had a lot of help.

 

For the last 8 months or so, I have been using lyrica, and got myself addicted to it. Please see my sig line below.

As the half life is only 6.3 hours, I thought that a 48hr break every weekend would be enough, but I started to get symptoms a couple of weeks ago.

These are loose stool on my daily morning visit to the toilet (sorry for the info overload)

One of those slight tension headaches that produce slight nausea.

Overheating in bed, feeling really hot.

Worsened anxiety and depression.

 

I decided that I would need to do a taper and have been experimenting with doseage and dose frequency and times, and come up with 75mgs 4 x a day - 6hrly, I started to feel better, but I do still have slight wd's like the loose stool on a morning, and about 5% of the headaches remain. Anxiety, but no nausea.

I had been taking 75mg 3 x a day - 8hrly, but had constant headache and nausea, so adding the extra 75mg and taking 6hrly works better.

 

I have a problem with addictions, and I know that it goes deeper than just taking drugs to feel better, as addiction can be to any thing, apart from drugs or drink.

 

I don't know if my worsening anxiety is due to pregabalin withdrawal or if it is due to circumstances I currently have. I have some real worries at the moment. I bought a flat in 2000, and because I was so desperate to get a place of my own, I ended up with a flat that has problems that will take unknown thousands to put right. I also fear being made homeless, as I am unable to work and am in receipt of welfare benefits. Our government is being really hard on welfare claimnants, the media is full of hate propeganda about us, and I fear that I may lose this much needed money, very soon, due to government cuts. As a consequence of this, I fear being made homeless. Seeking advice has just confirmed what I fear.

The government is due to make an announcement early next month about what welfare cuts they will make, so it feels like they are holding my life in their hands at the moment.

 

I have also had emotional sensitivity problems all my life, and am going, in July, 2015, for an ADHD assessment. I fear that my pregabalin addiction will stop them being able to diagnose me, although I know that substance misuse is common among people with ADHD.

Drugs are my addiction, alterred states, anything to stop me feeling as anxious as I do now.

I have had various therapies in the past, and am currently working with a counsellor, but I feel like my anxiety and depression are out of my control.

I have always felt sad due to a troubled upbringing with parents who used dysfunctional and damaging ways to cope.

I have always found being sober too intensely miserable, I used to cry loads for various reasons. My life, from an emotional viewpoint has been plain painful.

I often hope I only live a few more years, I am 48, by early 50's I'll have had enough, it's just been struggle after struggle.

Anyway, enough about my background, an onto the taper details.

 

I've only been doing the 75mgs four times a day, for five days, so I don't know if it's long enough to stabilise, I still feel some symptoms, but  nowhere near as bad, as the last time I stopped. I am not burning up in bed anymore and the nausea has gone, plus 95% of the headaches.

 

I've decided, that when more stable, I will do a daily micro-cut, like I did with the valium, because I had more success tapering with a daily, much smaller cut, my body seemed to like the smooth curve down of a little off each day, rather than the stepped method.

 

So, for now, I will leave it at that.

 

[primrose]

*moved from tapering forum and added title

 

Will epsom salt baths mess up my pregabalin taper

 

Hi

 

I read online that epsom salt baths can help some of the symptoms of pregabalin withdrawal

I am suffering a few symptoms.

I have not started tapering yet since the last time I failed as symptoms got too worse.

Even though I have updosed and have not tried to taper since the updose made me feel better, i have found that after a week on the new dose I went from ok to suffering symptoms, so it could be a bad reaction to the drug at this dose, but these symptoms also feel like withdrawal symptoms.

 

I know that pregabalin is excreted through the kidney and urine, but I am worried that the epsom salts magnesium in the epsom salts bath may take out some of the pregab as it is used for detoxing and mess up my taper.

 

Is likely to happen or is it helpful to have an epsom salts bath?

many thanks

Edited November 19, 2015 by Petunia
added note

[Petunia]

Hi Primrose,

I moved your post from the tapering forum, your intro/update topic is the best place for these kinds of questions. Epsom salt baths are calming and relax muscles, its very unlikely they will mess up your taper. Many people find magnesium, which is the ingredient in epsom salts, to be helpful while tapering and for withdrawal symptoms.

 

Your increase in symptoms a week after updosing may be because you haven't yet stabilized on the new dose, see:  The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[JanCarol]

Hey PRose, have you started your Lyrica taper?

 

You were stabilizing, then - I wonder if you have started, and how it is going?