Managing anger

[Petunia]

Hi Luna,

I don't think I've heard of any supplements that sedate rage, some people find magnesium to be calming see:

 

Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

Please would you start a topic for yourself in our  Introductions and updates   section so we can get to know you and your individual situation, then we may be able to offer better advice.

 

edit:  here is another thread which might be helpful

 

What tips have helped others with agitation and anger

Edited March 6, 2015 by Petunia
added another link

[strongereachday]

hi luna, ive experienced the rage and so far I think id recommend b vitamins and magnesium which has helped me immensely. as for a vitamin regimen, a naturopath had me on the b. and the mag. as well as d vitamins and fish oil. I am better able to deal with the rage now as a natural experience that is understandable by being traumatized by ill health. what also helps me is discussing it with my family. also It doesn't hurt to have a physical outlet (most likely one with not too intense exercise which can sometimes make things worse). I go ice skating fairly often which helps get aggression out. awhile back I would journal and sometimes throw my throwing knives at a tree, or punching a pillow also angry music can help get it out. I know its really hard to handle sometimes but it will get better. peace love and healing

[Meimeiquest]

When it happens, maybe try looking back carefully at what just proceeded it? Are there situations that are too much for you to be in right now? Sensations that trigger? For example, I have problems with sound sensitivity that wax and wane depending on what and when I last made a cut. When I get "zinged" by a noise (my family is SO noisy), it sort of disinhibits my emotional control. But with awareness, and especially by telling myself that this is a healing opportunity moment to retrain my brain, I can sometimes get through it without anyone even knowing I am struggling, Or not....

 

Somewhere GiaK wrote a great post about how we can't always change our response patterns/actions by just wanting to and trying hard, but the first step is awareness, realizing that it's happening, and we can build from there. Another book, actually on parenting, talked of reducing the fight or flight response/anxiety as soon as you feel it happening. He suggested slipping into the garage (or any place alone) and running in place till that energy is released.

[westcoast]

My most likely rage trigger is telephone customer service. During the bad years I was a madwoman, screaming at Bank of America about my loan mod application several times a month.

 

I know better than to call customer service about anything when I am "in a state."

[Luna]

Thank you everyone for your responses! I am taking all those supplements and it is something I experience no matter how small the decrease and no matter what drug. I just wanted to see if there was anything I hadn't heard of.

 

MeiMei I am chisling away at the lithium... Each time there is 7 days where I am a wild card with intense anger. I get so sick though exercise is not always an option.

[MatGMax]

I found ACT mindfulness helps with SSri withdrawal generated anger.

(I just read a book I didn't go the classes)

Wiki has this on it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_and_commitment_therapy

It doesn't get rid of the anger but it does make you less likely to act on it.

As an example when anger start talking over in you mind you say to yourself:

'I can see myself angry, I'm looking down on myself being angry.

I'm now looking down I myself reflecting that I am angry'.

It has a way of distancing yourself from the anger.

 

The other thing I found was if you are in an angry phase (I haven't been in one for a while fortunately) you need to constantly accept that you are not rational about your anger. Otherwise it damages those around you.

It also helps to think that the anger will pass.

 

Cheers

 

Damien

[Meimeiquest]

Thank you everyone for your responses! I am taking all those supplements and it is something I experience no matter how small the decrease and no matter what drug. I just wanted to see if there was anything I hadn't heard of.

MeiMei I am chisling away at the lithium... Each time there is 7 days where I am a wild card with intense anger. I get so sick though exercise is not always an option.

Ha, enough said. I am holding lithium right now. I dread going back to tapering it, I know exactly what you mean.

[Martina23]

Molder, welcome in the club. How you feel, I feel already four months. I hope it will get better for you soon. I have still quite a long journey before me.

[mogfish]

I cant even stand my dogs licking themselves, i want to shove them outside untied and pray they run away. I hate chewing sounds, people breathing, and clocks. I cant even be bothered to pick something up if it drops  because Im too mad at it. This aside from how annoying actual real things are!!!

Oh Aberdeen,

 

i laughed so hard that i had tears streaming down my face when I read this....as did my  16 year old daughter who has had to sit on the other side of the table at times so i can't hear her chew as much!! lol .Thank you for the laugh as I really needed it at the moment. i can totally relate to the anger you are feeling. hang in there, it does get easier.

[Jimbo71]

How long does the anger tend to last for? It's been six months since I reduced from 2.4 mg to 2.2 mg of paroxetine. I've been suffering from really bad anger most of this time and it's showing no sign of going away.

[antidepressantsNoMore]

Yeah I felt like people were agaisnt me all during w/d because it killed my self-esteem. I picked fights with lots of people who thought they were "tough". I would even insult them to their face, sometimes strangers. I never picked fights with someone who was mellow but if someone made me feel defensive, I would rage.

 

I'm learning how unhealthy this behavior is. I'm moving on with my life and I have learned from my experiences even the bad ones. You'll learn from it. You can't go around acting out of control like because you will make a lot of enemies. You need to fight you feelings and emotions. Talk yourself down and tell yourself, you're being irrational.

 

I'm not saying w/d isn't effecting you because it is. W/D can cause weird symptoms even aggitation or rage like in my case. You should probably be in therapy because you need to talk about it and address the issue in case there are deeper reasons to your feelings of anger.

[Altostrata]

merged similar topics

[MissSerene]

You also touch upon a rather sensitive issue we don't discuss much here:we tend to attribute almost if not all negative emotions and bad things happening to us to withdrawal. It's rather convenient:for one thing it will go away, and for the other the blame is on the meds. But I also very often see that a lot of my 'withdrawal symptoms' are things that led me start taking ADs ;( As for me, irritability and anger were so out of character with me. I used to be (too) meek person. So allowing myself to be angry was a big milestone in my growth. Learning how to channel this anger and use it in a constructive way in line with its purpose is an altogether different thing.

Bubble: Just found this post from a while back. It is SO helpful for me today. Am struggling with almost no good feelings and very intense bad ones: anger and irritability. Rage. Ugh. So hard, as I'm perimenopausal and don't know what part of what's happening is attributable to hormone shifts. Was also recently diagnosed with Complex Post Traumatic Stress disorder.

 

I have a fantastic, patient husband who ends up at other end of my moods, though I try mightily to control this. I also work part time in a place with children around a lot, and I feel so irritated by everything they say and do. I rant at other drivers on the road. I have nasty, mean thoughts about almost everyone. Is this really ME?

 

To me, this feels like all the anger I naturally had earlier in life is emerging after having been tamped down for so long. Coming from a troubled family, I learned almost no skills for self awareness and emotional self-soothing and management. So what you said above hits home for me: altogether different thing to learn to manage some of the feelings and conditions that prompted us toward the meds in first place.

 

Thank you SO much for the good insight and sharingg...I feel less alone today and more able to cope.

[BaronessG]

Thank you all so much. I cannot tell you how much if a difference this site has made in just half an hour.

I was really beginning to feel like a monster and worrying that this is just what I am like as a person. The anger in particular has been hardest to deal with, I get angry over nothing and then want to hurt myself for feeling that way. Things that a few months ago would have made me mildly irritated now make me literally scream with rage. I keep feeling that everyone I know would be better off if I just left and became a hermit.

In so many ways I do feel better but this anger/desire to hurt myself are unbearable. I'm going to keep reading through the entries for advice but even just not feeling like I'm losing it has helped so much. I'm actually sobbing as I write because I feel so relieved!

[Cressida]

On another thread someone else suggested Byron Katie s 4 questions . I ve been using this when I feel really angry or everything H does "irritates" me. I m having some success with this. Its amazing how much nicer he s become in my eyes lol . Given how long my WD is turning out to be there's only so much people can be expected to put up with I guess. Its a bit like being possessed by a demon surely someone would have exorcised me a couple of centuries ago

[Petunia]

Thank you all so much. I cannot tell you how much if a difference this site has made in just half an hour.

I was really beginning to feel like a monster and worrying that this is just what I am like as a person. The anger in particular has been hardest to deal with, I get angry over nothing and then want to hurt myself for feeling that way. Things that a few months ago would have made me mildly irritated now make me literally scream with rage. I keep feeling that everyone I know would be better off if I just left and became a hermit.

In so many ways I do feel better but this anger/desire to hurt myself are unbearable. I'm going to keep reading through the entries for advice but even just not feeling like I'm losing it has helped so much. I'm actually sobbing as I write because I feel so relieved!

 

Welcome BaronessG.

I'm so glad you have found some relief from knowing you are not alone. Are you tapering a medication? Are you in withdrawal? Please start a topic for yourself in our Introductions and updates  section so that we can get to know you and offer some support.

[JanCarol]

Well, I'm 10 months out from no karate.  I haven't actually exploded and damaged my relationships, but I am more volatile and irritable without this outlet in my life.  

 

I tried to go back in May, but found that it made my hand worse again.  Like withdrawal, I just have to wait until the hand is well enough to do something with it.

 

I've tried finding other, "softer" martial arts, but am daunted by the "starting over again" aspect of them.  Yoga, toning tables - these help - but - if I'm in a boiling rage - nothing makes it better like a good session of karate.  Two sessions a week is enough to keep me balanced, and I really, really, really miss it (and I'll bet hubby does, too!).

 

When I ask my husband for feedback, he says I'm a little louder and more excitable than usual, but that the tradeoff (in decreasing my psych drugs) is that I am more accessible.  I'm still completely clueless and unaware when I say something hurtful - I still need feedback to help me learn.  Because to me, my "tone of voice" may sound angry or frustrated, but I'm just trying to be heard by a man who is deaf and has attention issues (and I get so tired of repeating myself).  He's learning that my snippy clippy voice has crisp clear consonants so that he can hear me, and that the perceived emotional content is not directed at him (all the time, anyway!).  

 

When we first started together, it was before his stroke, and he took all of my impatiences (this was pre-lithium) as personal attacks on him.  He had lived alone most of his life, and wasn't used to having a loud, cranky-Yank in his house.  He has since learned to "let it go to the keeper" ("don't swing at every pitch" is the baseball term for this), but it is still something we work in.

 

In my case, this is about personality flaws, my unawareness of the effect I have on others, as much as it is about "cranky in withdrawal."  But managing mood is vitally important when going off the drugs - because remember - SOMETHING about you drove you to the drugs to begin with.  I recognize that my "cranky pants" irritability is a pre-drug state, and is likely to be a fairly strong (if more mature) post-drug condition, as well.

[Cressida]

Well, I'm 10 months out from no karate. I haven't actually exploded and damaged my relationships, but I am more volatile and irritable without this outlet in my life.

 

I tried to go back in May, but found that it made my hand worse again. Like withdrawal, I just have to wait until the hand is well enough to do something with it.

 

I've tried finding other, "softer" martial arts, but am daunted by the "starting over again" aspect of them. Yoga, toning tables - these help - but - if I'm in a boiling rage - nothing makes it better like a good session of karate. Two sessions a week is enough to keep me balanced, and I really, really, really miss it (and I'll bet hubby does, too!).

 

When I ask my husband for feedback, he says I'm a little louder and more excitable than usual, but that the tradeoff (in decreasing my psych drugs) is that I am more accessible. I'm still completely clueless and unaware when I say something hurtful - I still need feedback to help me learn. Because to me, my "tone of voice" may sound angry or frustrated, but I'm just trying to be heard by a man who is deaf and has attention issues (and I get so tired of repeating myself). He's learning that my snippy clippy voice has crisp clear consonants so that he can hear me, and that the perceived emotional content is not directed at him (all the time, anyway!).

 

When we first started together, it was before his stroke, and he took all of my impatiences (this was pre-lithium) as personal attacks on him. He had lived alone most of his life, and wasn't used to having a loud, cranky-Yank in his house. He has since learned to "let it go to the keeper" ("don't swing at every pitch" is the baseball term for this), but it is still something we work in.

 

In my case, this is about personality flaws, my unawareness of the effect I have on others, as much as it is about "cranky in withdrawal." But managing mood is vitally important when going off the drugs - because remember - SOMETHING about you drove you to the drugs to begin with. I recognize that my "cranky pants" irritability is a pre-drug state, and is likely to be a fairly strong (if more mature) post-drug condition, as well.

I love that expression "you don't have to swing at every pitch " . My H is the exploder . But my WD has intensified what are probably basic personality traits. I can't let anything go. I will react and take things personally and be full of rage. My WD is not helped by having a partner who is not easy going by nature. But I will work on not swinging at every pitch, and learning to drop the ball occasionally, I find it much harder than before to shrug things off/let things go. Doesn't help when you aren't feeling great either

[freespirit]

JC,

 

That's really too bad about your hand and karate. I can imagine how satisfying it would be and how it could help with anger.

 

Not sure how you feel about video games, but they more or less saved my bacon during wd. Boxing was best, but even baseball, volleyball, and tennis were helpful. It was deeply rewarding having all those knock-outs...but beating the top tennis stars was good too. I still suffered the occasional "wii injury" from overdoing...but mostly, it was a safe way to get out my frustrations. I actually notice changes in my mood if I don't play at some point every week...not only is it good for releasing frustration..it also makes me laugh a lot. And it gives me energy, if I'm feeling tired.

 

I've suffered from underlying irritability a lot in my life. Some of it is just bad mental habits (ie. thinking it "shouldn't be like this")..but a lot of it stems from that more sensitive nervous system, where I feel things so much, that it's overwhelming at times. Through WD, I've become so much better at listening when that begins to happen..so I can do things to take care of myself, so it doesn't escalate into me giving other drivers the finger, for example. I don't know that I could have gone through WD and still been married...pretty certain I'd have had to find a mountain cabin alone for that time.

[Idlewillkill]

Hello all, I hope today is going as well as it can be for you. Whenever any of you fine folk have a second to advise me on something that would be excellent.

 

As with my lexapro withdrawals/taper in the past. I'm getting that extreme agitation and anger thing again on my Zoloft taper. I am still holding at 87.5mg. Not as extreme but it is surely creeping in. Does anyone have any experience with this and what if anything helped with it. Also, is this hyper/hypo tension?

 

Thank you

[GardeniaBlossom]

Experiencing both of these to the degree that I did was distressing. I found focusing my energy (of anger and agitation) into healthy activities was helpful. I used exercise and writing to channel them. Also talking to people who got why I was angry helped when safe and possible.   

[Meimeiquest]

Hello all, I hope today is going as well as it can be for you. Whenever any of you fine folk have a second to advise me on something that would be excellent.

As with my lexapro withdrawals/taper in the past. I'm getting that extreme agitation and anger thing again on my Zoloft taper. I am still holding at 87.5mg. Not as extreme but it is surely creeping in. Does anyone have any experience with this and what if anything helped with it. Also, is this hyper/hypo tension?

Thank you

I have not been on a SSRI for many years, but I find inositol helps me some with WD irritability in general. I think the usual starting dose is 600 to 700 mg at a time, starting less than that for those of us who are sensitized. I take about 2100 mg at a time (1 tsp. of NOW brand). Most of us take magnesium at some dose. Many take an omega-3 supplement. Exercise. But I am still really edgy when I go through that low point of each drop. But those things might help with the less severe parts.

[redangel]

What does that mean, topics merge?  I woke up at 4am because my son sent me a text and have been in a rage sense.  I dont like that feeling of extreme anger over something so little.  I just couldnt get back to sleep and since sleep is a big problem for me it sent me into a rage.  Isnt there really something that will help this?  Im finding that Im questioning my decision to get of meds because Im not someone I like a lot of the time.  Ive been off paxil for about 7mths now and feel I should be handling things better.  

[direstraits]

I've been off paxil for 18 mos. and still have lots of symptoms including rage...this can take a very long time to resolve and like me you've taken the drugs for many years.

 

I also take levothyroxine,have you had labs done lately?

 

this is such a horrible thing to go through,but it will get better...hang in there.

[redangel]

I have labs done every 3 mths. 

[Theon]

Hello people. 

This summer I had very bad anger and irritability along with my apathy, from June to September, I used to punch the walls, smash books to the floor, break things,.. because I was feeling very activated and at the same time completely apathetic, and the only thing that I could feel was anger. It was horrible.

 

Since September this anger and irritability started to lessen, and now I don't have it anymore. Now my only symptom is apathy, but when the apathy lifts a bit, I find myself thinking about how horrible I behaved this summer and I feel guilty.

 

I was so peaceful before I ever touched any ssri, and this summer I was  a full of rage, irritable and apathetic monster. Luckily now the only symptom remaining is apathy.... but now my neighbours probably think I am crazy because they heard me this summer screaming or punching walls.... and if they learned that that was caused by an antidepressant, they would probably think "how can a prescription drug do such a thing? that's not possible"

[MissSerene]

Looking for some insight and encouragement. I don't post here very often, as my situation is less complicated than circumstances of many, and I feel self-conscious. Nearing the end of a very long, slow taper from 20mg of fluoxetine, I am really struggling with mood.

 

I feel angry, bitter, resentful, and so irritable, as if others don't have a right to even cross my path. Help! What is this about? Am getting so afraid that this is the "real me" emerging or re-emerging. Have read about neuro-emotions, and that material makes great sense. It is just SO discouraging to be going through it and trying to keep it in perspective. Also, I am adjusting to an estrogen-blocking medication for early-stage, fully treated breast cancer. Could hormones have something to do with this?

 

Anyone else struggle with this? Any insight appreciated.

Edited August 29, 2016 by KarenB
merged topics

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hello MissSerine,

 

I'm sure you will get many people chiming in that anger/irritability are definitely withdrawal symptoms.  I have had those, myself, and it seems there are many posting about such lately.

 

I was tempted to move this post into your Intro thread since it is also an update about your situation, but thought you might get more responses from others who commiserate with you on these symptoms.

 

Is your signature current?  Have you done any tapering since February?  If so, could you please update your signature?  

 

Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature

 

I calculated that as of February you should have been at 0.85 ml, so you were ahead of schedule.  At 4 mg/ml that means you were at 2.8 mg.  If you look at the paper in this link Why taper?, you will see on page 4 the graphs for fluoxetine.  You will see that at 2.8 mg the blockage of your receptors is getting quite low, around 25%, but at 6.4 mg where you were at in August, it was at way up near 70% - WOW, that is a BIG change in occupancy you have travelled in nine months!  So, you may want to slow the taper down even more at this point, perhaps 5% per month, since every change will lead to relatively large numbers of receptors freeing up which means symptoms.  You may want to hold an additional month at this point to really let your nervous system get settled with your current dosage. Those emotional symptoms should subside as this happens.

 

Don't forget to employ lots of self-care during this time.  Keep stress to a minimum.  Are you taking fish oil and magnesium?  Meditation/mindfulness can be helpfull, too.   Might be a good time to re-read 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

I hope this helps.  How exciting that you've come so far in your taper!  

 

As for the estrogen-blocking drugs, I'll have to look into that further, or maybe someone else can chime in on that.

 

SG

 

As your liquid Prozac gets more difficult to measure, you may wish to make a dilution with water.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Forgot to ask which estrogen-blocking drug you are taking; please add that to your signature, too, along with any other medications you are on. 

 

Thanks!

SG

[Icandothis]

MissSerene

Hello! I am happy that I came across your post and it resonates with me....I too am doing a long taper off of fluoxetine and I am feeling the same emotions that you are and I never related them to withdrawal I thought that maybe it was hormonal for me as I could be perimenopausal ? Perhaps it is our bodies adjusting to the changes of the amount of medicine? So SG was correct-here I am chiming in

I find myself in a battle at times of whether to give in and continue the medicine just so I don't have to experience these emotions and so it can be very discouraging. In your situation I could definetly see how the estrogen coupled with decreasing the fluoxetine could cause this upheaval of emotions ...I may not have been of much help but at least want you to know that you are not alone

[Icandothis]

I should have added in addition to these emotions do you feel fleeting sense of uneasiness and sometimes almost a woozy like feeling? I have felt that this afternoon and it produces a sense of angst and anxiousness and sets off like a spiral of not so happy emotions.

Does anyone experience this lightheadedness and uneasiness ?

[MissSerene]

Squirrelly and Ican: Thank you for responding...you made my day/week/month. Running to bed before early doc appointment in morning, but will update signature and respond fully tomorrow. Thank you again....none of us is losing our mind alone!

[SquirrellyGirl]

My post was a bit disjointed...I had written that lasts comment about dilution before completing the rest of it, forgot it was there.  But yes, you can do a 1:1 dilution of your liquid prozac to make measuring small amounts easier.  In a suitable container such as a tablespoon for baking/cooking, mix 0.5 ml of Prozac liquid with 0.5 ml water.  Mix by drawing the solution up into a syringe, dispensing it back into the tablespoon, sucking it back up again, dispensing it, repeat 3-4 times and it should be well mixed.  Now you have 2 mg/ml instead of 4 mg/ml. 

 

SG

[MissSerene]

Thanks again to responders. SG, really appreciate great suggestion for diluting small amounts of fluoxetine.

 

Ican, I don't generally feel lightheaded or woozy, thank goodness. Sorry you are having that problem. I had it when withdrawing from Klonopin several years ago, though.

 

Flu-like symptoms were the worst part of benzo w/d for me, but the mood shifts/anger/sadness I'm having now feel much more problematic for me. At a time when I really need social contact and support, I tend to shy away from these because I don't want to inflict my mood on others. Don't want to be snappy, critical, judgmental, complaining, and generally negative.

 

Ican, I have wondered so many times how the hormone shifts of perimenopause, and menopause itself (and now drug-induced estrogen "starvation" for me, after breast cancer) figure into the whole w/d scenario. At times, I try to imagine a point when this is completely over, and I feel so much better. Other times, I'm afraid to even hope for that, and just try to stay in today. I don't want to be disappointed!

[Icandothis]

Hello,

It is comforting to know that others can relate to these odd puzzling things that occur while trying to taper...I am always wondering if what fleeting things that occur (or not so fleeting) emotional and physical things are hormonally related or brought on from reducing the medication...I find that when I get into the angry,etc. mode I tend to try to keep to myself rather than lash out...

I wonder as well if things will one day settle and feel even....I hope but am cautious about feeling let down..

I try to live in the moment but thoughts get in the way

[SquirrellyGirl]

I can only comment from my own experience.  When I went off Effexor, I had been on the BCP my whole reproductive life and realized that, due to my mom and sister going into menopause before or at the age I was at, I must be in menopause.  So, I also went off the pill!  Imagine the chaos my body was in!  

 

My body has never been one to exhibit extreme reactions to things.   I did NOT have bad withdrawal after stopping Effexor, felt fine, no brain zaps.  I also didn't notice anything when I stopped the pill.  No periods, but no obvious symptoms.  

 

As time went by, I began to have serious cog fog, and if I recall, there was irritability too.  I thought I had adult-onset ADD and actually pursued testing for that!  I began having heavy sweating, and chalked it up to menopause.  As the months went on, the depression and anxiety hit.  I started BIHR in hopes that it would stop the sweats and make me feel better, but nope.  My mom recalled going on Premarin when she was in menopause because everyone was doing estrogen and feeling great, but she found it to cause apathy, so she quit.  She was worried that my hormone replacement was actually CAUSING the mood problem, but I argued that I had the problem before the hormones and was hoping they would fix it.

 

When I finally reinstated, everything cleared up, the mood issues, the sweating, the increased pulse and higher BP, all calmed.  So, despite being hormonally challenged, it really was about withdrawal for me.  I finally realized it was all protracted withdrawal AFTER I reinstated.

 

I don't know if that helps you, MissSerene and Icandothis.  I'm still on the HRT and it's been over a year now, so I guess I need to think about tapering off, but am nervous about doing it in the midst of AD tapering.

 

SG