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ang

Germanwings pilot Lubitz was on citalopram remeron and a sleeping tablet zopiclone

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ang

Hi Indigo  it is even more amazing that big Pharma have not started to fight back yet... why?  I have only seen one article, by an australian pilot, who gave up his dreams, due to depression,  oh and now is running another business involved in aviation.  er perhaps he failed his exams?  Great publicity for him... and a load of rubbish..........

 

but where are all the other paid for articles?

 

With all the ""its the illness " and NOT THE DRUGS garbage.... Interesting, maybe they are hoping he wasn't on SSRIs, or Statins, or stuff to stop smoking.... all as bad as one another?

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westcoast

Thanks for all these posts

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btdt

Hi Indigo  it is even more amazing that big Pharma have not started to fight back yet... why?  I have only seen one article, by an australian pilot, who gave up his dreams, due to depression,  oh and now is running another business involved in aviation.  er perhaps he failed his exams?  Great publicity for him... and a load of rubbish..........

 

but where are all the other paid for articles?

 

With all the ""its the illness " and NOT THE DRUGS garbage.... Interesting, maybe they are hoping he wasn't on SSRIs, or Statins, or stuff to stop smoking.... all as bad as one another?

"but where are all the other paid for articles?"

 

It is coming in the way of experts just now. This I watched this morning on CNN a specialist speaking to the symptoms ... saying the pilot had a psycho somatic illness... not a true illness.   As he was very very disturbed mentally disturbed enough to take down a plane and kill all those people.  This is their angle on it and they are using their guys full of double speak as usual... that is my take on it.

 

(Same old if you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullsh*t stance.) 

 

The symptoms were put out there... problem with vision head aches and digestion... all the specialist reported to be psycho somatic illnesses due to this man inability to deal with his deep psychiatric problems.   I think we have established here that all these symptoms are also issue we suffer from as side effects of the medication and also that these same issues are worse in withdrawal or tolerance and when doses are changed. None of this was mentioned and the reporter did ask about side effects of the drugs. Not the side effect of murder or suicide those side effects were put to being the deep illness that the pilot had nothing to do with the drugs.  The fact that the reporter asked is worth something but you can see the angle they are going to take with this and I am sure they will have a stack of experts they already used in the past to line up and report this till the lights go down on the situation... eventually somebody will write a book about it and make some cash but the general population will never read it ...only we will. 

 

As for the eyesight there have been reports of these drugs affecting eyes in a bad way many of them at Risk.. many at all the other sites that are now closed down too. 

 

Could you imagine the clout there would be behind this now if all those other web sites were not closed down that would be a real twitter blitz... but alass... old jaded me is watching this go down like all the others... columbine sandy hook you list them I am tired and ill. Just saying this is how it goes. This is the route pharma is taking and don't kid yourself they are hard at work on this one... no heads are hitting pillows for sounds sleep now... the pilots nightmares have turned into pharma nightmares. 

 

Don't think it does not work all they do does eventually work over and over again it works... 

 

I think every deveolped country in the world has a pharma industry... Including France and Germany.... so dcrmt look it up but I am sure of it.  I am still sick so sitting this one out mostly but can't help seeing the news.  

 

I wish you all peace 

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btdt

I'm hopeful that they're going to ask questions about what he was on and it's possible effects.

 

This didn't happen in the USA, it happened in Europe. 

They are going to dig to get to the bottom of this, it wont be satisfactory that he was just crazy.

 

They will investigate his recent medical treatment, they will investigate his prior medical treatment. This may well be the case that makes the homicide link impossible to ignore.

 

I am fairly confident that if there's anything substantive regarding him being on SSRI's and the potential link, it will be explored.

 

Remember, this has happened in Europe and it will be investigated by the French and the Germans primarily. Neither of those countries even have native companies that've developed SSRI's that I'm aware of. 

 

Pharma is global... is about all I can say here. 

I am curious as to why I am not seeing any of the old folks who have been around this type of issue offering their experience into how these things go... the history of how these issues go down generally with pharma... where are you all?  

Maybe they are busy making a storm ... as this is one area that can affect everyone... making a joined effort perhaps or why are they all silent?  

We can hope if we like I guess and guess silence is inaction when it may not be... we are all guessing I guess. 

 

Has anyone seen any response from any big Breggin Healy ... ect... 

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indigo

When I posted on my Facebook page a story about this pilot being on SSR's like many of the

people who shoot up high school libraries with link to article making this connect,  comments came in

saying I was jumping tp conclusions and SSR's helped many people, and posting this would add to

stigma against depressed people. And many of these came from therapists friends of mine. Wow!

At least it gave me the opportunity to explain about Big Pharma pushes SSRI meds on T.V. ,telling anyone who is not

skipping through meadows of wildflowers laughing that they should talk to their doctor about getting on these meds.

How Big Pharma fought against the suicide risk  label on the bottle even in face of mind-boggling numbers of young

people on the drugs killing themselves. And how they are now spending millions discrediting any psychiatrist 

who speaks up about  the SSRI violence connection.

This was a big coming out of the closet for me. It will take thousands of voices getting the word out in the open to change things.

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btdt

"Citing an unidentified senior investigator, German newspaper Die Welt said that Lubitz suffered from a severe "psychosomatic illness" and that German police seized prescription drugs that treat the condition. Lubitz suffered from a "severe subjective burnout syndrome" and from severe depression, the source told the newspaper."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/29/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/

 

If I understand this article correctly they are saying the drugs he was taking ... or they found as in " a handful of pills"  were to treat this ... "psychosomatic illness" 

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btdt

Goals, potentialities and limitations of treatment of psychosomatic disorders are reviewed. Removal of a disturbing psychosomatic symptom may be all that can be accomplished. The bulk of patients suffering from psychosomatic disorders should be treated by physicians other than psychiatrists. Difficulties arise, owing to differences in approach, when treatment is carried out by a general physician as well as a psychiatrist. In appraising the prospects of treatment, the age on examination, intelligence, duration of illness, degree of insight, nature of illness, environmental stress and personality structure of the patients should be considered. Psychiatric measures which have been employed include: electroconvulsive therapy, psychotropic drugs, hypnosis, drug abreaction, group therapy, supportive psychotherapy and psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis provides the best understanding of the psychodynamics of psychosomatic illness but is, for a variety of reasons, applicable only to a small number of patients. Alternations and removal of disturbing symptoms can be accomplished by the other therapeutic means.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1922663/

 

I can't help but wonder if this "psychosomatic illness" is in fact drug / withdrawal /tolerance ... effects.  Nice cover pharma... I don't buy it but I am sure others will. 

Over the years I have watched them make up a lot of illnesses out of thin air or normal issues like shyness to see them make something else out of drug issues is not a stretch at all.. I actually feel they are less creative then usual not really applying themselves at all.. compared to their former glory. Guess they loss something when they are stressed to perform. 

 

I can't seem to find any drugs that treat psychosomatic illness... other than when the patient also has other issues like depression.  It will be interesting to see the list of drugs he was taking.  

 

the previous article said he was injected with anti psychotics in hosp a few years ago. 

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btdt

When I posted on my Facebook page a story about this pilot being on SSR's like many of the

people who shoot up high school libraries with link to article making this connect,  comments came in

saying I was jumping tp conclusions and SSR's helped many people, and posting this would add to

stigma against depressed people. And many of these came from therapists friends of mine. Wow!

At least it gave me the opportunity to explain about Big Pharma pushes SSRI meds on T.V. ,telling anyone who is not

skipping through meadows of wildflowers laughing that they should talk to their doctor about getting on these meds.

How Big Pharma fought against the suicide risk  label on the bottle even in face of mind-boggling numbers of young

people on the drugs killing themselves. And how they are now spending millions discrediting any psychiatrist 

who speaks up about  the SSRI violence connection.

This was a big coming out of the closet for me. It will take thousands of voices getting the word out in the open to change things.

I expect to see the campaign pharma has been running to take the stigma off mental health disorders to play a part in this and it is  ... as you stated. 

 

A lot of people don't want to be crazy as in the old days that means low paying jobs no friends ect... for teenagers.  it is not easy to talk somebody into taking a drug if it means they will face stigma ... if they actually need the drug or not is another matter altogether... but to take the stigma away ...allows more sales pure and simple. 

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indigo

"Anti-psychotic injections"? Sounds like he was having worse difficulties than depression and anxiety.

Has there been any mention of which anti-depressants and other meds were found at his place?

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ang

Just an observation, the comments sections of whatever articles I can find on this, when I post to them the general feedback I get is only 20% think drugs are great (always on them), and surprisingly 80% are discussing  and agreeing on how horrific these drugs are.  I just wish, I had all this information when I got put on zyprexa for ""tiredness".  leading to madness, and of course the wonderful effexor, marriage and life breaker.

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btdt

"Anti-psychotic injections"? Sounds like he was having worse difficulties than depression and anxiety.

Has there been any mention of which anti-depressants and other meds were found at his place?

"Lubitz suffered from "generalized anxiety disorder," and from severe depression in the past, Le Parisien newspaper reported Sunday, citing sources close to the investigation. In 2010, Lubitz received injections of antipsychotic medication, the paper said."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/29/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/

 

Putting out misinformation is also a big pharma deal... so take it with a grain of salt we don't know who these "sources close to the investigation"  are do we.  One think I have heard of before a sever adverse reaction being treated just this way... not saying that is what went on here or if he did indeed have any injections... maybe he didn't.  No mention which antidepressant he was on as of yet... the one he may have been on is just one bit of  the big picture who know what all he had been on.  Within a few years some people have cycled through many of the antidepressants known to man ... as the old idea of finding the drug that works for you gets put into play.  It may well be a cumulative effect of reactions start ups who know what all given what we have seen happen to people on here could be just about anything.  

I am sure the reporters will be digging for awhile yet. What they find may well depend on medical privacy laws in Germany. 

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btdt

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16370264

Prescription drugs were present in 315 pilots, nonprescription drugs in 259, and ethanol in 101.

 

:)  Choose a drunk pilot over one on prescription drugs????

I will just walk thanks take it all out of the hands of pilots can't afford to fly anyway so unless a plane falls out of the sky and lands on my head I am in no danger from them. 

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btdt

Just an observation, the comments sections of whatever articles I can find on this, when I post to them the general feedback I get is only 20% think drugs are great (always on them), and surprisingly 80% are discussing  and agreeing on how horrific these drugs are.  I just wish, I had all this information when I got put on zyprexa for ""tiredness".  leading to madness, and of course the wonderful effexor, marriage and life breaker.

We all wish the same thing Ang well I do but no sense crying over spilled milk .. too dangerous there for me these days ... I get stuck there so don't go there was stuck there quite long enough already. 

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ang

There is a bit of laughter.   I particularly like this one... still battling to blame terrorism  (damn maybe big Pharma wrote this one?  They tryin!).  Great investigative journalism here!

 

quote

 

POLICE investigating the tragic Germanwings crash have reportedly discovered a copy of the Koran in a bookshop close to the home of co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, who is believed to have deliberately crashed the Airbus A320 into the French alps.

 

 

Great investigative reporting, damn I dont think I will bother listing the link to that one   

Is it now illegal to own a copy of the Koran, even a bookshop?

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MatGMax

Most countries don't allow direct to consumer drug advertising.

USA is unusual in allowing it, so there is no incentive for the rest of the world's media to keep quiet.

(First time I saw drug ads when I visited US a found them a bit freaky!)

 

Cheers

Damien

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ang

Well said Damien.  And also interesting, or lucky, that France just did an audit on behalf of the European Union, auditing all the drug trials now done in India (ie paxil, zoloft, seroquooel, etc, etc).  And they found 2700 out of 3000 trials to be fraudulent.  ie people were dying of sudden heart failure, etc, etc, but the trials said the drugs had no side effects.........   lets hope and pray justice prevails...

 

Anyone have the link?  I lost mine.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
changed to first name

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btdt
On 3/30/2015 at 11:24 PM, ang said:

Well said Damien.  And also interesting, or lucky, that France just did an audit on behalf of the European Union, auditing all the drug trials now done in India (ie paxil, zoloft, seroquooel, etc, etc).  And they found 2700 out of 3000 trials to be fraudulent.  ie people were dying of sudden heart failure, etc, etc, but the trials said the drugs had no side effects.........   lets hope and pray justice prevails...

 

Anyone have the link?  I lost mine.

close but no cigar

http://www.raps.org/Regulatory-Focus/News/2014/12/08/20924/EU-Regulators-Concerned-About-Drug-Data-Fraud-by-Indian-Company/

http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/medicines/human/referrals/GVK_Biosciences/human_referral_000382.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac05805c516f

A list of drugs recommended for suspension of sales due to the findings above

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/2015/01/WC500180894.pdf

 

I bet folks who live in Europe would have an easier time finding data. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
changed to first name

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btdt

Depression didn't make the Germanwings copilot kill 149 people

Read more: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/germanwings_co_pilot_mental_illness_suicide_is_linked_to_depression_but.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw_top#ixzz3Vs8keZtT

 

"For instance: act completely blasé, then lock the pilot out of the cockpit, and deliberately crash a plane full of people.

I don't know what that is, but it's not depression.

They spend their whole lives watching television. Are they depressed? Or "depressed"?

"Depression" seems to signify social ills for which we have no solution, from violent, homicidal behavior, to health illiteracy, to our culture's neglect of the elderly. Constructing societal deficits as a medical problem does everyone a disservice — because treatment specific for depression won't work for people who don't really have depression. People who need social support can be expected to benefit most from programs that provide social support — not from psychiatrists.

A better article... worth reading. Thanks for the link Ang :)

 

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btdt

"Once treated with a drug, a pilot is never the same again.  Even if the underlying condition clears, he may not be able to stop.  The risks are not eliminated.  - See more at: http://davidhealy.org/winging-it-antidepressants-and-plane-crashes/#comment-117334"

 

Bravo to Mr Healy my hat is off to him....

 

if you want to share something share this... link above the only trouble I am having with it is this.... I don't think any well managed patient is completely risk free I don't care how good the doctor is he can't predict what will happen inside a persons head... lessen the risk sure completely stop it nope it can't be done. I think the only way to avoid the risk is to never take the drug in the first place. End of story. 

"The only way to manage these risks is to have a close relationship between the pilot and her doctor in which the doctor is fully informed as to what the risks are - See more at: http://davidhealy.org/winging-it-antidepressants-and-plane-crashes/#comment-117334"

 

It is going to take a lot of reading this in many places over and over again to combat the other crap we are seeing about this event... so much media but so little of it gets to the facts or how to stop this problem. 

 

Share the crap out of it....please. 

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clearday

According to today's news, The Germanwings co-pilot had unusual vision problems after taking antidepressants, and his doctor told him that his distorted vision was "psychosomatic".

 

Distorted vision is a common side effect of anti-depressants, even the drug companies know that.

 

Perhaps if the doctor assured the co-pilot that his vision problems were temporary and due to damage caused by these AD drugs, he would have had hope to get better, rather than plunge into despair and sociopathic action.

 

The doctor basically told him hey buddy, your damaged vision "is all in your head". 

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clearday

great article - thanks!

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btdt

Here we go again. NYTimes has a shrink answer questions about antidepressants. Nothing said about side effects of discontinuation.

 

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/ask-well-depression-and-its-risks/?ref=health

 

Going back in to the read the comments.

 

It does appear that you can still submit a question, via a link at the bottom.

link those folks up with this WC

http://davidhealy.org/winging-it-antidepressants-and-plane-crashes/#comment-117334

just read the MAD one send it too... :0 

 

I should do it myself I guess... I have been in many bar room type fights online ... in news article comments sections over the years I kind of feel done with it.

 

I tried to read it and the comments and find I cannot suffer them... maybe I am beyond me saturation point and really just done. 

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btdt

Too many great posts to reply to here. I have been reading the comments on NYTimes mostly, and most people are just tramping around the wrong field, the mental health, vision, psychosomatic one. A few say what we already know, and I am always thrilled to see that.

 

Jon Rappoport, whose brief bio is at the end of this linked article, covered it an oblique way, and seems to be saying, without mentioning the crash, that the big media ain't going to cover it:

 

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/news-vs-sub-news-how-the-game-works/

 

He writes about psych drugs and the faulty research that supports them pretty often and is worth following.

"People who encounter sub-news within the mainstream are often driven to distraction, when they expect major revelations to follow—and nothing happens. They can’t figure out what’s going on." 

Very very true words.. thanks for the link WC

 

I had kind of figured this out already but it is nice to know I am not alone. :) 

peace

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westcoast

dumb media :)

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westcoast

hopless!

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JanCarol

Wow, Ang and btdt your ability to take in heaps and heaps of information and distill opinions is impressive to me.

 

Germany is a major manufacturer of antidepressants and antipsychotics.  

 

We will never get the answer, unless there is a lawsuit against the drug companies (if we ever find out which ones) NOT the airline.

 

So just count on a whitewash, and all of these suppositions are still - suppositions.

 

My first thought was Islam, my second thought was antidepressants.  It may have been both.

 

But by all means, use your twitting and FB to raise awareness if you can - I posted the MIA and another link (thanks guys) to my FB page.  Let the fights begin, as people do not want to be told that the drug which is making their lives bearable for the time being - is a time bomb. 

 

We know it is, but people don't want to hear it.  It's part of why the resistance is so total.  And the pharma press which conditioned them to believe that.

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westcoast

any news?

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