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Germanwings pilot Lubitz was on citalopram remeron and a sleeping tablet zopiclone

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btdt

post I made to my thread today that kinda fits with the new personal bits here seems to apply to some of our lives. 

 

"I never think of myself as complex but I am sure others do.  I think of myself and loaded down with burdens perhaps a ton of them and lot of the "purposed help" help was incorrect and nonspecific causing much of the burden I carry now. 

 

Case made me think of head case which I guess is an easy way to bury and throw sand over mistakes... I see it happen in psychiatry all the time...lost cause complex cases.  Of which sadly there like are some folks difficult to help with our known science that is bad enough  but to know there many others written off after they have been damaged by people who did not know what they were doing educated by others who pretended to know what they were doing..." 

 

There was more. 

peace

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westcoast

Lorazepam!

 

The Santa Barbara shooter too.

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westcoast

.

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btdt

Sapolsky describes all schizophrenics as living "wasted lives."

 

he believes it.. and removes himself from any empathy ... as it does not compute with insanity I think this is why our docs don't hear us... we are not valued humans to them just a label. 

 

Sad but that this is how it goes. 

 

Did you link the Healy article to this... maybe he  will read it

 

Or link SA for the poor folks that don't know what they need to know... may as well get some use out of the time spent reading his ideas... I think it is Finland that is having good rates of success with non drug treatments for schizophrenics ... guess he doesn't read anything new .. or anything not scripted. 

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westcoast

Yes, and noticing the Sapolsky looks like an old hippies, he replied that even Liberals don't get it.

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btdt

Yes, and noticing the Sapolsky looks like an old hippies, he replied that even Liberals don't get it.

"And here is where there is the greatest danger. Mental illness of every stripe is always shrouded in stigma, compromising fair access to employment, housing, healthcare and so on. An untreated major depression is one of the most life-threatening diseases on Earth; if the unprecedented act of Andreas Lubitz drives depression sufferers to hide, deny, ignore their disease even more than is already so often the case, the number of innocent lives lost will dwarf the heartbreaking number of 150."

 

I guess he knows nothing of all those damaged by the drugs that are all hiding away some place suffering denied ...ignored the man is clueless... talking head. 

 

Here he gets his plug in for the disease model flogged by pharma and of course the drugs to treat it... 

gag...

"Second, despite the supreme rarity of Lubitz's manifestations of depression, it is a staggeringly common disease. This is a disease destined to afflict about 1 in every 6 humans at some point in their lives, a disease that, according to the World Health Organization, is closing in on being the second leading cause of medical disability on the planet. Depression is the common cold of psychopathology."

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westcoast

depression, sure...

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westcoast

depression is like diabetes...

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westcoast

thinking about this...

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btdt

You go about your daily life but your mind is fast asleep.

sleep state mirperception

there was a thread about it at pp I participated in - other drugs cause it too... man killed his wife in his sleep another version 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/nov/20/brian-thomas-dream-strangler-tragedy

this one where the sleep paralysis did not kick in... 

 

I had a test once where they said I was asleep I never closed my eyes but my brain she said was asleep. The test was an EEG the only drug I had taken was the 2wks of prozac to which I had had a severe adverse reaction. 

Bit of what Breggin calls spellbinding ... and not aware of it either agnosia... another Breggin term... http://www.breggin.com/ECT/NrlgcFrgmntsCMFisher.pdf

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btdt
Spectral analysis[edit]

According to a May 2014 article published in NewScientistspectral analysis may help clinicians find objective evidence for sleep state misperception:

(...) it uncovered(...) subtle differences in the EEGs of sleeping insomniacs: alpha waves – signatures of wakefulness that are supposed to show up only in early sleep – were intruding into deep sleep. (...) [psychologist and sleep researcher Michael] Perlis. But Andrew Krystal of Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, used spectral analysis to quantify just how much they were intruding. Krystal's non-sleepers not only had a greater proportion of these alpha disturbances, but the alpha waves were bigger and the delta waves were correspondingly smaller. That wasn't all. When Perlis and other researchers applied spectral analysis algorithms to the EEGs of their sleeping insomniacs, they found different patterns, fast waves known as beta and gamma (Sleep, vol 24, p 110). Normally, these are indicators of consciousness, alertness and even anxiety (...) Like alpha waves, Perlis calls these beta and gamma waves "intrusions" into normal sleep: "It's as if somebody is playing with the switch – boop, boop – flipping at a mad rate between wake and sleep," [6]

not sure this is the same think it is

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westcoast

Tweets by David Healy. He zeroed in on it too...

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btdt

chyrle crow song I woke the dream did not end... none of this is new just for this drug... other Ads have this reaction too... 

 

"I think it is working, but I am super anxious and I cant sleep. Doc said to give it a few more weeks."

 

This could be any drug we talk about on here and yes I have been to those sites ...not for a long time as I can't stomach them and people fight me tooth and nail at them.... they don't want to hear what I have to say... not a word of it. 

 

I hate it too. 

 

There is nothing new under the sun... 

pharma is raking in data about brains they always have and they keep it to themselves cause they are allowed to then they hit us with a new drug and it gets eating up like candy by the folks in wd and suffering reactions so horrid they would take anything to make it go away... I know all about it I live my life like that for 18 years 

There is nothing new under the sun..... I wish there were. 

 

We have Healy Breggin this site but that is about it.

peace if you can find it may be the only rational thing to seek. 

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btdt

"There is more to the story than Lubitz’s major depression and personal problems. Dr. Sapolsky assigns blame to the pilot’s brain, and I do too. But his brain did not act alone. Lubitz had been using, for depression and perhaps some other ailments, psychotropic drugs.

Though we do not know what his ailments were, we know that Lubitz had sought psychiatric care. He might have been using psychotropic drugs since since 2009, possibly accumulating neurologic and other side-effects for 6 years. At the time of his last flight there were a large number of pill bottles in his home, containing lorazepam, an anti-anxiety agent, and Valdoxan, a new type of antidepressant. He had received an injection of olanzapine, an antipsychotic used to quell mania or psychosis, olanzapine, in 2010. Why didn’t these drugs make him well?"

Read the rest here:

https://evidencer.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/lubitz/

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btdt

"Major media cover the story from several angles.

Should airline personnel have known one of its pilots was suffering from depression? Did they know? Did they cover it up, or ignore it?

These media outlets studiously ignore the elephant in the room: the drugs used to treat depression.

This blackout is intentional. Any decent reporter would look into the antidepressants, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, etc., as the cause of the pilot crashing the plane.

Go to the site, SSRI Stories, for a huge list of suicides and murders connected to the drugs. Read the warning labels (listing, e.g., suicide) on the drugs. It’s all there.

Visit psychiatrist Peter Breggin’s site, breggin.com. Breggin blew the whistle on these drugs long ago. Read his classic, Toxic Psychiatry.

So where is the media coverage now, in the Germanwings case? It’s virtually nowhere.

The go-to media experts in the field of psychiatry are cover-up professionals. Drug Companies, of course, buy enormous numbers of TV ads."

 

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/germanwings-plane-crash-major-media-cover-up/

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btdt

"Given the increasing number of questionable aircraft disasters, which, on their surface, provide no rhyme or reason for a motive, one may begin to question the use of antidepressants, especially in light of a 2007 FAA reportthat revealed that of the 61 air crashes between 1990-2001, “the pilot’s psychological condition and/or SSRI use was reported to be the probable cause or a contributing factor in 31% (19/61) of the accidents.”

The fact is, whether Lubitz was on psychiatric drugs, or in withdrawal from them, there is enough evidence to show that the use of antidepressants or other mind-altering psychiatric drugs by commercial pilots, in the U.S. and abroad, should be banned."

http://www.cchrint.org/2015/03/27/germanwings-co-pilot-spent-18-months-under-psychiatric-treatment/

 

Wow 61 air crashes from drugs

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btdt

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2000s/media/200719.pdf

Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors: Medical History of Fatally Injured Aviation Accident Pilots

 

16. Abstract Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are popularly prescribed for treating depression, but these antidepressants are not currently approved for use by U.S. civilian aviators. In a 2003 study, 4 SSRIs—citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, and sertraline—were found in 61 pilot fatalities of civil aviation accidents that occurred during 1990–2001. However, it was not known whether these pilots had had disqualifying psychological conditions, including depression, and had properly reported the use of the antidepressants. The aeromedical history of the pilots was retrieved from the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA's) Medical Certification Database; additional pilot medical information and the cause/factor of the accidents were obtained from the National Transportation Safety Board's (NTSB's) Aviation Accident Database. Fifty-nine pilots had medical records in the FAA's Certification Database. The database did not contain medical records of 2 pilots—1 had never received a medical certificate and another had a Canadian pilot and medical certificate. Although driving under the influence was self-reported by 22 of the 59 pilots during their past aeromedical examinations, disqualifying psychological conditions were self-reported in the past examinations of only 7 (12%) of the 59 pilots, and the use of an SSRI was reported by 3 of the 7 pilots. In later examinations, 6 of the 7 indicated that they were free from the conditions and not taking SSRIs; thus, they were reissued medical certificates. Such conditions and/or drug use were not self-reported in the aeromedical records of the 52 (88%) pilots. Nevertheless, the NTSB investigations revealed that 12 (20%) of the 61 pilots had a history of a psychological condition and/or an SSRI use, as suggested by their personal medical records. Psychological conditions and/or the use of drugs were determined to be the cause or a factor in 19 (31%) of the 61 accidents. These findings reconfirm that SSRIs were used by the aviators but were not reported in their last aeromedical examinations.

 

12. Sponsoring Agency name and Address 13. Type of Report and Period Covered Office of Aerospace Medicine Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20591

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btdt

I don't know why the text is so small I can't read it...sorry about that I don't know how to fix it in a copy

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Konjo

"Germanwings, suicide and the hidden dangers of antidepressants"

 

"... About a decade ago, I, Gordon Marino, sank into a serious funk. My family physician prescribed an antidepressant, the serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) Paxil. Within a couple of days, I began having repugnant thoughts and impulses. Having been in psychotherapy for a good part of my troubled life, I had developed enough introspective ability to realize these ideas were “not me,” but an adverse effect of the medication. I discontinued the drug and the horned ideas that were visiting me quickly vanished.

To be sure, we have heard people say that they never felt like themselves until they started taking an SSRI. But for some of us with different wiring, the same drugs can conjure demonic impulses.

As with other medications in this class, sertraline (Zoloft) comes with this warning:

“Call a physician right away if you or a person you know who is taking Zoloft has any of the following symptoms, especially if they are new, worse or worry you: thoughts about suicide or dying; attempts to commit suicide … acting aggressive or violent; acting on dangerous impulses …”

Suicide is a violent deed. It is self-murder, a form of homicide. If suicidal ideation bubbles up in a vulnerable segment of the population taking antidepressants, it is not too far-fetched to imagine that fantasies about hurting others might also arise.

Truth be told, whenever we hear about someone committing a seemingly random act of murder who is or was in therapy, we have to wonder: Were they on, or perhaps coming off, a regime of psychoactive medications? After all, we have no problem acknowledging that alcohol and street drugs can be a gateway to helter skelter. What about prescription pills? ..."

 

 

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/299263981.html

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btdt

Some people live alone and there the drug taker even if they are aware some things are wrong may be cognitively unable to be "aware"  of the new troubles the medications has brought.  Those suffering from mania are often the last to know they are manic.  I find the black box warning is incorrect in suggesting only one age group can have difficulty with these drugs as I have read of problems in all age groups. 

 

From the article above:

"We need the means to monitor the inner lives of the 1 in 10 Americans who gulp antidepressants every morning with their orange juice as though they were as innocuous as a multivitamin. They are not." 

 

How would it be possible to  "monitor the inner lives" ?  

It is not possible.  

 

For many taking the drugs including myself bits of self can be walled off... bits of the brain also feel walled off .. making it impossible to figure out the problem.  I can't say this is exactly what happens with those who have gone on to commit terrible deeds to themselves and other... but I bet it is a part of it.

 

I don't think it would make any difference which type of doctor follows the patients it seems even psychiatrists miss any warning signs there may be and I would not be too surprised if the violence just as the drug changes came on suddenly with no warning in at least some of the cases I have followed.

 

There does not seem to be a fool proof way to catch these reactions.. having a psychiatrist rather than a gp give the drugs to out patients is not going to lessen the reactions... I can't follow the reasoning.   That a psychiatrist is trained to be more aware of the reaction and would see the patients more often at times deemed to have more reactions ... is a thought... but not one proven to make any difference.  

 

I would appear the warning was put on drug for a specific age group and the reactions are at specific time... seems there was some study and was the conclusion... 

 

I would like to see this study ... studied.... and it may be time to redo it as there are now many more cases to add... time for a new study. I have never seen the study that brought these conclusions to the drug warnings.   I would like to see it.

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btdt

"Germanwings, suicide and the hidden dangers of antidepressants"

 

"... About a decade ago, I, Gordon Marino, sank into a serious funk. My family physician prescribed an antidepressant, the serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) Paxil. Within a couple of days, I began having repugnant thoughts and impulses. Having been in psychotherapy for a good part of my troubled life, I had developed enough introspective ability to realize these ideas were “not me,” but an adverse effect of the medication. I discontinued the drug and the horned ideas that were visiting me quickly vanished.

To be sure, we have heard people say that they never felt like themselves until they started taking an SSRI. But for some of us with different wiring, the same drugs can conjure demonic impulses.

As with other medications in this class, sertraline (Zoloft) comes with this warning:

“Call a physician right away if you or a person you know who is taking Zoloft has any of the following symptoms, especially if they are new, worse or worry you: thoughts about suicide or dying; attempts to commit suicide … acting aggressive or violent; acting on dangerous impulses …”

Suicide is a violent deed. It is self-murder, a form of homicide. If suicidal ideation bubbles up in a vulnerable segment of the population taking antidepressants, it is not too far-fetched to imagine that fantasies about hurting others might also arise.

Truth be told, whenever we hear about someone committing a seemingly random act of murder who is or was in therapy, we have to wonder: Were they on, or perhaps coming off, a regime of psychoactive medications? After all, we have no problem acknowledging that alcohol and street drugs can be a gateway to helter skelter. What about prescription pills? ..."

 

 

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/299263981.html

 

Another link on this topic may interest you

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8700-lubitz-was-a-victim-but-not-of-depression/

 

There was one containing a lot of links and discussions ... i searched to link it too but it appears to be gone now. 

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ang

There was a whole thread on this discussion, has disappeared somewhere, anyone know where it went?

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ang

well done btdt, dont know what happened to that other thread on this topic

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btdt

well done btdt, dont know what happened to that other thread on this topic

Thanks Ang it is an important issue seems to have gone away over night... how fast forgotten.... 

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mammaP

They will never stop pilots from flying while taking psychiatric drugs, because then they would have to extend it to others too, such as train and bus/truck drivers. Then they would have to look at the military and so many soldiers are on SSRIs to dull the conscience. It just won't happen, but I think they may make it compulsory for doctors to report when someone is unfit to fly. Just my thoughts.

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btdt

They will never stop pilots from flying while taking psychiatric drugs, because then they would have to extend it to others too, such as train and bus/truck drivers. Then they would have to look at the military and so many soldiers are on SSRIs to dull the conscience. It just won't happen, but I think they may make it compulsory for doctors to report when someone is unfit to fly. Just my thoughts.

I thought that too Mamma but it was not that long ago that pilots were singled out by the FAA to not be allowed to take any of these drug ... it only changed in 2010 

 

FAA Home  News  Press Releases

Press Release – FAA Proposes New Policy on Antidepressants for Pilots
For Immediate Release

April 2, 2010

Contact: Alison Duquette or Les Dorr 

Phone: (202) 267-3883

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced that it will consider the special issuance of a medical certificate to pilots who are taking medication for mild to moderate depression, conditions that now bar them from all flying duties.

On a case-by-case basis beginning April 5, pilots who take one of four antidepressant medications – Fluoxetine (Prozac), Sertraline (Zoloft), Citalopram (Celexa), or Escitalopram (Lexapro) – will be allowed to fly if they have been satisfactorily treated on the medication for at least 12 months. The FAA will not take civil enforcement action against pilots who take advantage of a six-month opportunity to share any previously non-disclosed diagnosis of depression or the use of these antidepressants.

“I’m encouraging pilots who are suffering from depression or using antidepressants to report their medical condition to the FAA,” said FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt. “We need to change the culture and remove the stigma associated with depression.  Pilots should be able to get the medical treatment they need so they can safely perform their duties.”

The FAA’s policy is consistent with recommendations from the Aerospace Medical Association, Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Air Line Pilots Association and the International Civil Aviation Organization. The Civil Aviation Authority of Australia, Transport Canada and the U.S. Army already allow some pilots to fly using antidepressant medications. 

Psychiatrists and Aviation Medical Examiners who have specialized training under the Human Intervention and Motivation Study (HIMS) program will help the FAA evaluate and monitor pilots under this new policy. The HIMS program was established 40 years ago and has been highly effective for the assessment, treatment, and medical certification of pilots who need help with alcohol and drug issues.

The policy statement is on display in the Federal Register athttp://www.archives.gov/federal-register/public-inspection and allows for public comment until May 3. A notice regarding the special enforcement action related to the new policy is available at the same website.

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=11293

There must have been some process by which they decided ssri using pilots would not by flying prior to 2010 perhaps whatever those reasons were could be brought up again.  I am sure all those years before 2010 bus drivers ect were using ssri while pilots were not that is just the way it was.  Reverting back could be possible maybe. 

 

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btdt

This is how it stand currently at the FAA

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/

 

Pilots still can't fly if they take some types of ssri... snri...

 

  1. An applicant may be considered for an FAA Authorization of a Special Issuance (SI) of a Medical Certificate (Authorization) if:

    1. The applicant has one of the following diagnoses:
      • Major depressive disorder (mild to moderate) either single episode or recurrent episode
      • Dysthymic disorder
      • Adjustment disorder with depressed mood
      • Any non-depression related condition for which the SSRI is used

    2. For a minimum of 6 continuous months prior, the applicant has been clinically stable as well as on a stable dose of medication without any aeromedically significant side effects and/or an increase in symptoms. If the applicant has been on the medication under 6 months, the Examiner must advise that 6 months of continuous use is required before SI consideration.
    The SSRI used is one the following (single use only):
    • Fluoxetine (Prozac)
    • Sertraline (Zoloft)
    • Citalopram (Celexa)
    • Escialopram (Lexapro)

  2. If the applicant is on a SSRI that is not listed above, the Examiner must advise that the medication is not acceptable for SI consideration. 


  3. The applicant DOES NOT have symptoms or history of:
    • Psychosis
    • Suicidal ideation
    • Electro convulsive therapy
    • Treatment with multiple SSRIs concurrently
    • Multi-agent drug protocol use (prior use of other psychiatric drugs in conjunction with SSRIs.)
  4. So they could not take a drug like Effexor and be a pilot ... already some drugs are not allowed ... any bets as to whether we have any bus truck train ...drivers using Effexor... Military personal have been taking these drugs for a long time I have not read of any limitations put on them or any drugs they can't take. 

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Takes a bit of re-reading to understand and there is a lot of repetition (I don't know that I believe the cloak and dagger stuff) but there is more to this story. Lots doesn't add up.

 

 

"Black box memory card stolen from crash site of Germanwings jetliner? Plausible cover-up theories now taking shape Wednesday, March 25, 2015 by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger Tags: Germanwings, black box, cover-up (NaturalNews) For some reason we have yet to fully understand, jetliners keep disappearing or falling out of the sky with disturbing regularity. Air travel is amazingly safe, of course. Statistically, it produces far fewer injuries and deaths than vaccine shots which injure so many children that the United States Congress was forced to set up a special "vaccine court" just to handle all the injury claims and billions of dollars in compensation payouts. 
 
But the circumstances under which jetliners keep disappearing smack of conspiracy and cover-ups. Flight MH370, for example, has still never been located. In July of last year, I was the first independent media journalists to suggest the plane had been hijacked. Mainstream media outlets like CNN ridiculed the theory, but just this month CNN began rolling out the exact same explanation, now claiming the jetliner was, indeed, hijacked. (Funny how CNN's narratives completely flip-flop over time, isn't it?)
 
Now with the Germanwings jetliner incident, we have the New York Times "pulling a CNN," you might say. According to this NYT story, the memory card of one of the airplane's two black boxes is missing, and the story claims it must have been "destroyed by the impact."
 
"Investigators have so far been unable to retrieve data from one black box, and the other was badly damaged and its memory card was missing," reports the New York Times.
 
If you read the logic of that sentence, it seems to state that no data was recovered from either black box, right?
 
But then in the exact same story, the NYT also reports, "Remi Jouty, director of France's Bureau of Investigation and Analysis, confirmed that audio of voices had been recovered from the black box in the crash of the Germanwings plane in the French Alps."
 
So, wait: there WAS voice recording data recovered from one of the black boxes? Confusing things even further, another paragraph in the same story says:
 
At the crash site, a senior official working on the investigation said, workers found the casing of the plane's other black box, the flight data recorder, but the memory card containing data on the plane's altitude, speed, location and condition was not inside, apparently having been thrown loose or destroyed by the impact.
 
So what we really have here is a story about two black boxes: one which either has voice data on it or doesn't have voice data on it, and the other black box which we are supposed to believe was located but the memory card it protects was missing because it was destroyed even though it was surrounded by a black box that's almost impervious to destruction.
 
Black boxes are designed to survive plane crashes... DOH!
 
Now, those of you who understand the laws of physics -- which obviously makes you a terrorist in modern America where any real grasp of scientific reality is widely condemned -- know that black boxes are designed for the precise purpose of making sure nothing inside them gets destroyed even in a violent airplane explosion or impact crash.
 
If black boxes did not survive plane crashes, there would be no real point in having them in the first place.
 
It's nearly impossible to destroy these black boxes -- which are really orange -- without resorting to extreme methods of destruction. As this NPR story explains, "The black box must be able to withstand an acceleration of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity)..."
 
To test the structural integrity of a black box, "[a]t 3,400 Gs," adds HowStuffWorks.com, "the CSMU hits an aluminum honeycomb target at a force equal to 3,400 times its weight. This impact force is equal to or in excess of what a recorder might experience in an actual crash."
 
What the New York Times is now asserting, against all known laws of physics, is that a black box was found, it was opened, the memory card was missing and therefore it must have been "thrown loose or destroyed."
 
Consider the unlikelihood of such a claim being true. It mirrors the similarly ludicrous claim after 9/11 that the terrorist's passports survived the crash and were found on the sidewalk below the building... but the aircraft black boxes were all destroyed in the crash, of course. And like magic, we're all supposed to believe that U.S. passports will survive an extremely hot explosion that melts steel girders and collapses buildings, but a black box -- which is DESIGNED to be blown up and still survive -- somehow "lost" its memory card as a jetliner descended into terrain.
 
How convenient.
 
The far more reasonable explanation, of course -- which also happens to be aligned with the laws of physics -- is that someone took the memory card out of the black box, which is why it's no longer in the black box.
 
If you scan a quick history of mysterious plane crashes that might be linked to rogue nations or government-run operations, you'll notice that the black boxes are missing from ALL such plane crashes: 9/11, Malaysia Airlines, this Germanwings flight and no doubt many others. Black boxes, it seems, are only found intact when governments want to find them intact.
 
Why would someone want to take the memory card out of the black box?
 
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the only reason someone who remove the memory card from the black box is because they won't want the world to find out what's on the memory card.
 
And what is stored on these memory cards, exactly? Audible recordings of the flight deck and a detailed digital log of every flight command, environmental variable, flight control surface, altitude, heading, airspeed and everything else you might imagine is important in an airliner crash investigation. Black boxes contain all the data needed to entirely reconstruct the accident and find out what happened.
 
If someone carried out the attack on purpose, they could have easily been pre-positioned on the ground, ready to rush to the wreckage and pull the memory card. Black boxes are not terribly difficult to find if the wreckage is sufficiently broken apart. They're bright orange and unmistakable to identify, even in a pile of wreckage. They are designed to scream out "FIND ME!" in a mass of rubble. Because of the rugged terrain, it took rescue workers many hours to even arrive at the scene, leaving plenty of time for someone with a pre-positioned ground-based scout team to reach the wreckage first.
 
Why were the pilots apparently unconscious?
 
One reasonable working theory in all this is that some rogue government wanted to kill someone on the plane but make it look like an accident. Somehow they managed to incapacitate the pilots and then put the plane into a controlled descent into terrain, the theory goes.
 
"Among the theories that have been put forward by air safety analysts not involved in the investigation is the possibility that the pilots could have been incapacitated by a sudden event such as a fire or a drop in cabin pressure," reports the NYT. "A senior French official involved in the investigation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that the lack of communication from the pilots during the plane's descent was disturbing, and that the possibility that their silence was deliberate could not be ruled out."
 
On this point, I concur. Commercial pilots are incredibly well trained and tend to be very intelligent people. If they were conscious, they would have absolutely noticed the altitude descent, especially when flying among high-altitude mountains. All pilots who are still living are fully aware that if your aircraft altitude goes LOWER than the height of the nearby mountains, you probably need to go full throttle and climb. Monitoring your altitude is one of the very first things all pilots are taught (airspeed, altitude and heading, actually), and commercial pilots are taught to scan their instruments on a regular basis to watch for unexpected readings.
 
On top of that, pilots tend to be people who prefer to be living rather than dead. In fact, one of the best assurances of pilots doing a good job flying commercial airliners is the inescapable fact that they are on board that same airliner. (Never fly in an aircraft remotely piloted via drone technology, if it ever comes to that...)
 
Thus, pilots tend to keep passengers alive because they want to keep themselves alive, too. It is almost inconceivable that the two pilots of this Airbus A320 would have both failed to notice the descent in mountainous terrain. The fact that the aircraft obviously did not suffer a sudden flight control failure also means it was not blown up in mid-air.

 

From this site.

 

I remember reading, early on, that a box was found without a memory card then nothing was ever said about it again. Then there was a story about how a woman showed up and found that black box AGAIN, under some rubble, about 8 days later. After everyone else had been looking for it. Reading more posts on the above site (and the comments) is making more sense than what is being reported in the media. The media are being spoonfed crap and they dutifully report it. (And I shun conspiracy theories as a rule.)

 

The Lubitz story seems too pat an answer to this mess. The stories don't add up the way the media has reported them, things don't happen like that.

 

This is not going to change the manufacture and marketing of antidepressants. No matter how many disasters are pinned on these drugs, things will never change. The only way to get things to change is to stop taking them. Period.

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westcoast

I think you are right, Cymbalta.

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westcoast

I felt it necessary to hide it when a member complained that it was upsetting her because of its title.

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ang

thanks Westcoast......how do we link both the threads?  I actually think there are three threads now?

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ang

 

They will never stop pilots from flying while taking psychiatric drugs, because then they would have to extend it to others too, such as train and bus/truck drivers. Then they would have to look at the military and so many soldiers are on SSRIs to dull the conscience. It just won't happen, but I think they may make it compulsory for doctors to report when someone is unfit to fly. Just my thoughts.

I thought that too Mamma but it was not that long ago that pilots were singled out by the FAA to not be allowed to take any of these drug ... it only changed in 2010 

 

FAA Home ▸ News ▸ Press Releases

Press Release – FAA Proposes New Policy on Antidepressants for Pilots
For Immediate Release

April 2, 2010

Contact: Alison Duquette or Les Dorr 

Phone: (202) 267-3883

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced that it will consider the special issuance of a medical certificate to pilots who are taking medication for mild to moderate depression, conditions that now bar them from all flying duties.

On a case-by-case basis beginning April 5, pilots who take one of four antidepressant medications – Fluoxetine (Prozac), Sertraline (Zoloft), Citalopram (Celexa), or Escitalopram (Lexapro) – will be allowed to fly if they have been satisfactorily treated on the medication for at least 12 months. The FAA will not take civil enforcement action against pilots who take advantage of a six-month opportunity to share any previously non-disclosed diagnosis of depression or the use of these antidepressants.

“I’m encouraging pilots who are suffering from depression or using antidepressants to report their medical condition to the FAA,” said FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt. “We need to change the culture and remove the stigma associated with depression.  Pilots should be able to get the medical treatment they need so they can safely perform their duties.”

The FAA’s policy is consistent with recommendations from the Aerospace Medical Association, Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Air Line Pilots Association and the International Civil Aviation Organization. The Civil Aviation Authority of Australia, Transport Canada and the U.S. Army already allow some pilots to fly using antidepressant medications. 

Psychiatrists and Aviation Medical Examiners who have specialized training under the Human Intervention and Motivation Study (HIMS) program will help the FAA evaluate and monitor pilots under this new policy. The HIMS program was established 40 years ago and has been highly effective for the assessment, treatment, and medical certification of pilots who need help with alcohol and drug issues.

The policy statement is on display in the Federal Register athttp://www.archives.gov/federal-register/public-inspection and allows for public comment until May 3. A notice regarding the special enforcement action related to the new policy is available at the same website.

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=11293

There must have been some process by which they decided ssri using pilots would not by flying prior to 2010 perhaps whatever those reasons were could be brought up again.  I am sure all those years before 2010 bus drivers ect were using ssri while pilots were not that is just the way it was.  Reverting back could be possible maybe. 

 

 

They let them use SSRIs for the simple reason the pilots were using them anyway, and lying about it.   So yes, pilots been using this stuff pre 2010.  Sure there were links in the old thread to this.

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