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ingridphoenix

Hello,

 

I found this site while checking reviews about supplements sold by another site. Thank the Universe I was compelled to do so, saved myself a lot of $$.

Read around a bit and knew that I had come home.

 

In 1992 I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and part of that was insomnia. I was started on 25mg of Amitriptyline and am still on that same dose today. However, life happened and the pain and everything made me depressed. 

 

Over the years I went from one anti depressant to another, and the Wellbutrin was the last. I stopped taking it cold turkey, never thought twice about it and had no side effects (that I recognized!) I am not sure how it is I was so oblivious, as I am usually a very inquisitive person and am constantly researching and reading about anything.

​Maybe a light bulb went on because of what's been happening slowly over the past 6 months.

 

All changes from one to the next went OK, stopped and started one after another. Until I was only on the Amitriptyline again. Then I had sleep issues again, and a doctor suggested Klonopin. He did not think I should have Xanax. In fact, he dropped it and I did go through a few weeks of tense emotions. The Klonopin was offered long after.

This doctor allowed me to be on Hydrocodone, 2 ea of 10/325. Then my insurance changed and the next doctor fussed a bit, then OK'd it, but after a year she dropped me, because she thought I was doctor shopping. (I had a root canal and an extraction, each cost me many $$, and certainly not worth getting 16 5/325 Vicodin for)

I had to look for another doctor, and this one refused to give me the pain medication.

What she did is had me withdraw unsupervised and way too fast.

 

This all gives me great hope that I will make it through my current journey. My wings have been clipped, and I am not liking this at all.

This last doctor who took my pain meds away wanted to start me on Lyrica, I refused, knowing is causes weight gain, a fact that is actually well known.

Unfortunately I allowed her to talk me into taking Cymbalta, which can also cause weight gain, especially once partnered with the Amitriptyline and Klonopin.

 

Wings were growing back, but the added weight in the past 6 months has made it almost impossible to move, let alone fly....

Around Christmas I had Pneumonia, but it would not go away, so I asked for a chest x-ray, on the 1 year anniversary of quitting smoking. 

 

Findings were an enlarged heart and a partially collapsed lung. And the letter read that we'd discuss in 3 months at the next appointment........ 

Long story short, I called to talk to her, to learn she was gone for a month. I was so angry - so I asked to see a different doctor, one I had seen before, and he has great bedside manners! Ultrasound revealed heart is OK, not sure about the lungs, but the coughing and wheezing is pretty much gone now.

 

I quit seeing that woman and switched - and on my 1st official appointment, I took my meds with with me and one by one I asked questions, and he told me the truth, and we made a plan. maybe his plan is possible, we shall see. Based on past experience, I apparently can handle withdrawals. But I do not want to travel this journey alone, so I am glad I found all of you.

 

 

We also agreed on dropping the Amitriptyline and he told me about Klonopin causing Dementia and Alzheimer's, and he encouraged me to let that go, too.

I told him that I was no longer taking Buspar, it was not working, I kept forgetting to take it (for anxiety) and it did nothing for/to me. I only took it for a week or so)

 

I started tapering on Monday 21st of March. 

The night from the 24th to the 25th I had a bad dream, woke up with heart palpitations, checked it and was at 135 heart rate. oops. very odd feelings. I recalled reading about settling these effect by taking a Benzo - so I did. It helped.

 

I have re-set my game plan to get off Cymbalta and Amitriptyline first. The Klonopin next. For sleep I was given Trazadone. 

But I am looking for natural ways to get me sleepy and sleeping again.

 

Now, all my reading the past few days has shown that many experience a great range of symptoms, either while still on the drugs or as they are withdrawing.

I felt it might be safe to stick with folks who understand and I can learn so much from you.

 

My goal is to bring the Phoenix back to life - to find that part that I lost again, all the while losing a few pounds - especially what I gained the past 6 months, rendering me useless (in my opinion) and I will not live like this any longer.

It's dangerous too, as I fall and have hurt myself, not good.

 

I am committed to success using as many natural tools as I can. Am on supplements now and notice how much better I feel already.

 

Thanks for reading this. 

 

phoenix-bird-design-s.jpg

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11690-ingridphoenix-i-want-to-fly-again/

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ChessieCat

Hi Ingrid and welcome to SA,

 

Yes, you have found an excellent site with very supportive and encouraging members and a wealth of information.  This site recommends a 10% taper with a holding period of 4 weeks (or more if needed) to allow the brain to adapt to not receiving as much of the drug.  These help describe it:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

I notice in your signature that you are taking Amitriptyline every other day.  This is not recommended here.  It's also not a good idea to taper 2 drugs at once.

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Tips for tapering off amitriptyline

 

Have a read of the links above and come back here to your Intro/Update Topic to ask questions.  You can use your topic to journal your progress.

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ingridphoenix

Hi Ingrid and welcome to SA,

 

Yes, you have found an excellent site with very supportive and encouraging members and a wealth of information.  This site recommends a 10% taper with a holding period of 4 weeks (or more if needed) to allow the brain to adapt to not receiving as much of the drug.  These help describe it:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

I notice in your signature that you are taking Amitriptyline every other day.  This is not recommended here.  It's also not a good idea to taper 2 drugs at once.

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Tips for tapering off amitriptyline

 

Have a read of the links above and come back here to your Intro/Update Topic to ask questions.  You can use your topic to journal your progress.

Thank you ChessieCat - This will keep me busy! :) 

I now have 2 days off and can dedicate every waking moment to ME, and to feel better. 

I saw about the tapering  and I have plenty of capsules left with 60 mg, so I can do this for a long time.

So happy to hear back. 

From rainy Oregon

ingrid xx

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KarenB

Welcome Ingrid,

 

With your strong spirit and hopefulness, you certainly will get through this.  When you get through those links come and ask lots of questions. 

 

It's good to have you here,

Karen

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ingridphoenix

Welcome Ingrid,

 

With your strong spirit and hopefulness, you certainly will get through this.  When you get through those links come and ask lots of questions. 

 

It's good to have you here,

Karen

Thank you Karen!

It feels good to be here. I am just by myself, no alcohol, stopped that in anticipation of my adventure (never drank much) anyway - I feel so energized and positive, it's odd. and I am laughing with friends on facebook - and watching Flashmobs on youtube and am loving this evening.

OK, I can't get up and walk much, because my legs hurt, and I feel like my own granny lol

I wonder if I am having - well, what AM I having?! Not complaining - I just have not felt so excited about anything in a long time.

The Cymbalta brought on apathy big time - now - knowing I can (and will!) change this, I do not let my physical state bother me as much, I am focused on fixing my brain.

I ate very bad, because I can not stand long - so not enough nutrients. I am changing that - and it seems to work.

And maybe it is all my imagination, and if that is so, I am loving my dream :)

Good Night, I am going to read in bed, feet up - 

Thanks for the warm welcome x

ipd

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ingridphoenix

@Alto - I love seeing this quote "From my observation, there definitely do seem to be a few types of withdrawal syndrome. The most common is based on hyper-alerting. Another is more like fibromyalgia and hyper-sensitivities. A third seems to trigger possibly pre-existing borderline auto-immune conditions."

Bingo! I knew it - after reading thorough lists of side effects carefully hidden away by FDA etc (yes, they can be found) and thinking back on the last 20 years, my Fibromyalgia is nothing but a bunch of drug side effects! Grr...

@ChessiCat and @Karen -

 

That was a lot of info, I think I need a nap now. - 

I suffered from massive side effects and did not even know it. Chalked it up to Fibromyalgia, and everyone went along with it. I have a suspicion that a bunch of folks who are diagnosed with it and take all this stuff would be much better if they 1, never took the darn things or 2, would try to get off the meds. In these past 7 days I learned that people are quite attached to their drugs. I tried sharing with a few - but got push-back.

Oh well.

​I messaged my doctor and said I want a new script for Klonopin, as it is helping with the high pulse and weird vision things (only experienced once) 

I chopped the Amitriptyline into quarters for now - and as I mentioned, I have tons of capsules to do a longer tapering off with Cymbalta. I'll play with that tomorrow. Measuring etc.

 

In the meantime - I wish to share that I am back on supplements, but only until I feel better and can go to the store, actually carry the groceries from the car upstairs and then - get this - actually prepare a meal! I have not done this for the past 8 months or so. Dishes? Eh - so overrated... ;) I am joking, a little lol. 

Yes, that is how I have lived. Paid money for others to take care of my home, but now I have no more - so - and I ate bad. My sister says that I should not take supplements, I should derive from food. I told her - sure - when I am ready to do that again. I want to - but my body is broken.

 

I am feeling terrific mentally. I watched funny videos and laughed a lot, I watched touching videos and cried a bit - I felt an amazing energy - like I used to when I had a drink or two - very cool.

 

As you saw, I believe in the law of attraction, that we get what we focus on. I have not been this focused on a positive outcome ever. I am driven to get out of this and be free again.

I do not have to care for another - so I can be free to do as I please. I did make sure my only neighbors I connected with have my info, and they assured me calling at 3 am would not be a problem. I always have a charged phone with me, and my family and friends and work knows. 

I am not afraid. I truly believe that my mother, who crossed over last July is watching over me. In fact, I feel she's the one who nudged me to start thinking about why I looked like I am 10 mos. pregnant with twins, and why my calves are so swollen, I walk around in slippers now, and the broken blood vessels under the skin. 

 

I do have one question just now - I never did take Tramadol on a daily basis, mostly Ibuprofen, after I was cut off the Hydrocodone. I read that some folks are needing to go thru a planned withdrawal etc - I would not be able to tell you what could be a side effect from this, or Fibro - so messed up all this.

 

I must find something to eat and rest - this is my Saturday - and usually I spend it in bed, but was busy today. Which is very unusual, but I am NOT complaining! I never could focus on anything - I lost interest, even though inside I knew I wanted to do things, like art and crafts etc - 

This will be a journal, I can see that already -

xx

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ingridphoenix

This is the oddest thing - I am experiencing side effects - OK, I am still taking the stuff - but still, it must be the stacking of drugs that Cymbalta was the straw that broke the camel's back. 

I am now having varicose veins forming - big lumps on my legs. calling my doctor - as I am concerned about blood clots now.

I had a friend take pictures, and we discovered them, they are new. just a day old - 

Do you now understand why I am speeding through the process?

I rather live and deal with my mind later - than worry too much about whether I will wake up alive in the morning - 

My gut tells me to do this, as the side effects are still manifesting themselves - after all, I have not exactly stopped taking this poison. 

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Fresh

Hi IP , your mood is so good because you are having symptoms of hypo-mania after cutting your

cymbalta from 60mg to 30mg. Extra energy , a sense of euphoria , all typical.

" I am feeling terrific mentally. I watched funny videos and laughed a lot, I watched touching videos and cried a bit - I felt an amazing energy - like I used to when I had a drink or two - very cool.

 

Taking amitriptyline every other day is continuing to destabilize your cns even further.

 

Please consider taking a daily dose of ami. - 12.5mg , to allow things to even out.

You might also bump up the cymbalta in order to avoid a crash , which I feel strongly is in your near future.

 

Best wishes , Fresh

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ingridphoenix

Hi IP , your mood is so good because you are having symptoms of hypo-mania after cutting your

cymbalta from 60mg to 30mg. Extra energy , a sense of euphoria , all typical.

" I am feeling terrific mentally. I watched funny videos and laughed a lot, I watched touching videos and cried a bit - I felt an amazing energy - like I used to when I had a drink or two - very cool.

 

Taking amitriptyline every other day is continuing to destabilize your cns even further.

 

Please consider taking a daily dose of ami. - 12.5mg , to allow things to even out.

You might also bump up the cymbalta in order to avoid a crash , which I feel strongly is in your near future.

 

Best wishes , Fresh

Thank you, Fresh - I am taking 12.5 mg of Ami now. I should have mentioned that.

I had wondered about the mania thing. never experienced it knowingly - except I remind myself of me as a young woman.

Full of life and vibrating very high.

A bundle of energy - not physical so much, except dancing.

But my brain - always busy.

I totally understand the idea of tapering slower - but do I wish to die while I do this because I may have blood clots in my legs?

I can share pictures of the sudden appearance of them, and the doctor said deep lying veins will be the trouble makers, and when I said, well - varicose veins I see, what are the odds of some being below the surface, hm?! He agreed.

 

I want to know the cold hard truth - what sort of crash is this you all talk about?

Is it as bad as my Apathy and Inertia. My feeling of worthlessness and feeling I might be better off if I was called away?

THAT is how I feel being ON the darn things.

Inability to drive at times due to dizzy spells.

Falling out of the blue, crashing down flights of stairs.

Hospital stays due to those falls

THAT is how I feel being ON them.

I could go on, but the side effects is what is killing me.

I can't imagine anything worse than that, except having my life shortened, but then, I chance that now.

 

I am not angry, I am frustrated, because I have yet to see an answer to this.

I am to chose between 2 things - I can't be the only one here who has worse side effects than any withdrawal effects could bring.

 

Btw, I love your name! 

 

So, dearest Fresh - thank you so much and please, help me really understand, please.

 

Thanks so much - looking forward to hearing from you again. xx

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Fresh

"I started tapering on Monday 21st of March"

What did you go from/to , what doses , which meds? Is that when the cymbalta went from 60mg to 30mg?

 

You're most definitely not the only one who feels terrible on the meds. IP. But after almost 25 years , your

brain doesn't know how to function without them. If they are removed too quickly , your whole central nervous system may go seriously haywire. Way more debilitating than

apathy and inertia.

This is me 6 months after stopping cymbalta too quickly in 2013. It went on for another 5 months after this was taken. Please , don't risk it.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjGxJuK9-7LAhUiL6YKHQdtC7IQtwIIGzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4H-oYvsjA1A&usg=AFQjCNFPkFD-WdxClrw00njTUK2e1DBHOg&sig2=1JO4EnRaF9u0HuMmbsfGRg&bvm=bv.118443451,d.dGY

It's taken 2 years so far to recover.

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ingridphoenix

"I started tapering on Monday 21st of March"

What did you go from/to , what doses , which meds? Is that when the cymbalta went from 60mg to 30mg?

 

You're most definitely not the only one who feels terrible on the meds. IP. But after almost 25 years , your

brain doesn't know how to function without them. If they are removed too quickly , your whole central nervous system may go seriously haywire. Way more debilitating than

apathy and inertia.

This is me 6 months after stopping cymbalta too quickly in 2013. It went on for another 5 months after this was taken. Please , don't risk it.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjGxJuK9-7LAhUiL6YKHQdtC7IQtwIIGzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4H-oYvsjA1A&usg=AFQjCNFPkFD-WdxClrw00njTUK2e1DBHOg&sig2=1JO4EnRaF9u0HuMmbsfGRg&bvm=bv.118443451,d.dGY

It's taken 2 years so far to recover.

So, this akathisia is a side-effect OF the drugs (per wikipedia) and a side effect of detoxing?! No wonder we get confused. 

I started tapering 3 different drugs on the 21st. I have since stopped doing that for Klonopin (a Benzo) and am taking it daily.

Doctor also gave me Trazadone, which helps me sleep - good, too. I am down on the Ami, as I said, and 30 mg on Cymbalta.

I was at one time on Wellbutrin and my normal (lol) Ami. when I started forgetting to take the Wellbutrin. 

After a few days I said, ok - fine. And that was that. 

OK >>>>> I opened a 60 mg capsule. I found 12 little tablets inside - oh so cute!!! ;)))

I am on 30 mg now, and I am unwilling to go up again - so - 

I have 60 capsules = 720 baby tablets. 

So how long should I stay on 30 mg. 

I really am well. You did not know I turned into a hoarder. 

I also did not do my dishes for 2 months, slept in a bed for 6 months or more, before it was changed. 

I could no longer do anything. Because I was so stupefied. I functioned in public, but stopped everything else.

I spent a lot of money to have a friend clear out my place, because had the landlord seen my place, I would have been evicted.

This is all BEFORE I started detox.

I came to in the Fall of 2015 - but only to see my friend do my work, I appreciated it, and messed it all up again.

Oh, I never did laundry either, just bought new clothes, 2nd hand.

And showers - let's not go there. These things are meant to be ANTI depressants - and did the opposite. Bad stuff.

But in my mind I was screaming to be set free - and now I feel as I did when I was young and free of any medication, except birth control :)

I realize everyone reacts differently to the environment, anything that we take in has different results. 

I have yet to find anything about vitamins, minerals and herbs here - but then I am not very good in forum settings, this is my first one.

I looked at other sites and found a lot of info, and a lot of over price supplement packages in exchange for free help. 

I spent many hours comparing - many I already had, but had not yet begun with, or stopped because I just did not care.

Yes, I need supplementation, because I do not get my nutrition from food.... YET. :)

Being I have this Fibromyalgia, I am looking to find herbs and such to help with that and found several, plus I now know more about brain and neurons and all that than I ever did lol

I am putting a list together - will share when done, if you want a look? 

OK, this grew longer than I thought - thank you so much for sharing your story with me - and your genuine concern.

------- should I continue with 30 mg for a while and then drop by one bead every so often and see how it goes?-----

Sending you a big hug and love xo

ingrid

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Fresh

If you're considering bumping up the cymbalta , try going back to 45mg , rather than the 60mg you were taking 2 weeks ago.

You can open a 30mg capsule and count / divide the beads.

 

Please could you add to your signature the date and dose you re-commenced daily ami.

 

We can go into the nutritional stuff later , let's just get the meds sorted first.

 

:)

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ingridphoenix

If you're considering bumping up the cymbalta , try going back to 45mg , rather than the 60mg you were taking 2 weeks ago.

You can open a 30mg capsule and count / divide the beads.

 

Please could you add to your signature the date and dose you re-commenced daily ami.

 

We can go into the nutritional stuff later , let's just get the meds sorted first.

 

:)

OK, I was not going to bump the Cymbalta up. and I am fine with staying on 30mg for a while. I can get more if I need to. I have a bunch of the 60 mg I opened up. 

I can get more Ami as well, and I think I can cut the 12.5 in half as well.

Right now I am sitting here with my feet so swollen, I can't fit in a shoes - esp left ankle, looks as if it were sprained.

And tingles like crazy. Side Effect. Not withdrawal. Can we post pictures? Or send in a message? 

I am at work, late hours, will try to fix signature later. ok?

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ingridphoenix

 

If you're considering bumping up the cymbalta , try going back to 45mg , rather than the 60mg you were taking 2 weeks ago.

You can open a 30mg capsule and count / divide the beads.

 

Please could you add to your signature the date and dose you re-commenced daily ami.

 

We can go into the nutritional stuff later , let's just get the meds sorted first.

 

:)

OK, I was not going to bump the Cymbalta up. and I am fine with staying on 30mg for a while. I can get more if I need to. I have a bunch of the 60 mg I opened up. 

I can get more Ami as well, and I think I can cut the 12.5 in half as well.

Right now I am sitting here with my feet so swollen, I can't fit in a shoes - esp left ankle, looks as if it were sprained.

And tingles like crazy. Side Effect. Not withdrawal. Can we post pictures? Or send in a message? 

I am at work, late hours, will try to fix signature later. ok?

 

I sent you 2 pictures in 2 messages just now. 

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Fresh

Please don't think about decreasing the amitriptyline for at least another 6 weeks.

Wait until the regular daily dosing has evened out , and you see if there's any further fall-out from the

cymbalta cut.

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ingridphoenix

Please don't think about decreasing the amitriptyline for at least another 6 weeks.

Wait until the regular daily dosing has evened out , and you see if there's any further fall-out from the

cymbalta cut.

OK - I will leave it alone. 

Did you see the pictures?! Horrid! I am driving home now and placing my feet way up! lol

You have been most gracious and helpful and I am grateful to you  :wub:

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Fresh

How are your puffy feet Ingrid?

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ingridphoenix

How are your puffy feet Ingrid?

Good Morning -Fresh :)

Better - I stayed in bed Sunday and left them up - and have stayed away from salt. 

They look normal now.

I'll update signature later - am late for work - 

Feel fine - focused and can actually finish a task. 

still on same meds - 12.5 Amy, 30 Cym. 1/2 mg Klonopin and Trazadone, just 1.

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ingridphoenix

 

How are your puffy feet Ingrid?

Good Morning -Fresh :)

Better - I stayed in bed Sunday and left them up - and have stayed away from salt. 

They look normal now.

I'll update signature later - am late for work - 

Feel fine - focused and can actually finish a task. 

still on same meds - 12.5 Amy, 30 Cym. 1/2 mg Klonopin and Trazadone, just 1.

 

Hiya - nerve pain in toes. updated my signature :D  a tad short tempered, but that could be my job, being I work in the complaint department. People are getting on my nerves lol.

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JanCarol

Hey Ingrid - I don't use the word "detoxing" because it doesn't work quite like that.  The drugs have effect long after they have "detoxed" or left your system.  This is because they have restructured your brain & nervous system, and the key is healing the brain, nervous system, and endocrine system.  One of our mods, Rhiannon, said it best when she wrote this:  Rhi's description of healing the brain

 

I'm one who has chronic pain issues, too.  I think it's criminal that they won't give you the hydrocodone, but will give you drugs that can mess up your system for years to come.  At least you can "detox" from hydrocodone, and when it leaves your system it is gone, but you cannot "detox" from cymbalta and Lyrica (a very popular drug for fibro) or any of the psych drugs.

 

You say you have added supplements - please let us know what they are - B vitamins (for example) can be very activating in withdrawal.  And some of the amino acids are counter-indicated too*. Usually with supplements, we advise only starting one at a time, so that if you have a reaction, you know what you are reacting to.  We also believe in titrating them in - taking the smallest, tiniest amount of a new supplement, to test the waters, to see if you are sensitive to it.

 

*you are wise to not go with the expensive commercial "detox" programs - they often use a shotgun approach with aminos - throw all of them in, even when they shouldn't be taken together, or are more effective at different times of day, etc.

 

I see you are on turmeric - have you considered tart cherry, also for pain?  Some people can take it, some people cannot (it has a high histamine profile), it seems to help me (and others).  I don't know what I would do without the turmeric!

 

I have yet to find anything about vitamins, minerals and herbs here - but then I am not very good in forum settings, this is my first one.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-treatments-diet/

 

So were you on any drugs when you "developed" fibro?  When you said:  

Bingo! I knew it - after reading thorough lists of side effects carefully hidden away by FDA etc (yes, they can be found) and thinking back on the last 20 years, my Fibromyalgia is nothing but a bunch of drug side effects! Grr...

 

Does that mean you believe that your Fibro is induced from side effects or withdrawal from drugs?

 

I do think it ironic, that the very drugs which are "popularly prescribed" for Fibro can induce it.  What do you think your story is?

 

Here is an alternate view of Fibro from someone who is respected by many members on the SA board:  https://chriskresser.com/is-fibromyalgia-caused-by-sibo-and-leaky-gut/

 

and here are some discussions on SA about it:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2221-fibromyalgia-flare-up-and-withdrawals/

 

and http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2487-fibromyalgia-doctors-chose-pfizer-over-you/

 

I hope you see the sun today!

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JanCarol

Hi Phoenix, you wrote on TooTired's thread:

Hi there - I fought Tramadol tooth and nail - but they insist. I did look up the interactions and showed them to my doctor, he had no idea - 

He does know now that I am well researched and won't take anyone's word at face value. lol

I only take one 50 mg PRN, seriously, only as needed. And i know it is somewhat of an opiate, because I can feel that effect. But not the energy, in fact, it makes me sleepy  ;)
In fact - I did a comparison and found that Hydrocodone (I do not like Oxy) is less troublesome as far as interactions go. Or side effects. 
So I teased him and said you guys are afraid of the law, aren't you - he laughed and said no. Well, I suppose I need to be his patient for a while before i can convince him I am NOT a opiate shopper. gah!

Jan - I live in Oregon - where is this doctor you recommend?

 

I agree with you that hydrocodone and oxy are less evil than any of the serotonin or neuroleptic drugs.  There are still issues with addiction - but it's almost like doctors are afraid to prescribe a drug that might "feel too good." and YES, he is afraid of the law.  YES there are people who are street abusing the opiates - I personally know of 2 deaths from them.  But that ruins it for those of us who might actually benefit from them.

 

Oregon - do you have medical cannabis in Oregon?  It is indicated for Fibro, if you get the right blend.  I would say high CBD might be of great help to you, and the oils, if you can get a good one, have very little psychoactive effects.  FAR BE IT FROM ME to suggest an illegal drug, but - isn't it legal in Oregon?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5030-cannabis-thc-or-marijuana-to-ease-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

As for alternative doctors for fibro, you might look into:

https://www.functionalmedicine.org/practitioner_search.aspx?id=117

 

There, you can search for one nearby.  You can also go to "doctor ratings" and see if they are good or if there are complaints against them.  Functional medicine doctors ARE more expensive.  They run tests that are often not covered by insurance, because they are on the cutting edge of evidence based medicine.  They look at the cascades of interactions in your system, not just the symptoms.  

 

Kelly Brogan, MD, a women's psychiatrist on the East Coast, is carrying the torch for women suffering everywhere.  She has a brand  new book out called: A Mind of Your Own http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZP5WLNY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

 

I can't wait to read it!!!

 

She refers on her Facebook page to this article about Fibromyalgia:

http://eatlocalgrown.com/article/11715-fibromyalgia-causes.html

 

I hope these give you some new tacks to take on your healing journey!  We'll get those wings back, and you can rise from the ashes to be the creative, dynamic being you know that you are!  

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ingridphoenix

Hey Ingrid - I don't use the word "detoxing" because it doesn't work quite like that.  The drugs have effect long after they have "detoxed" or left your system.  This is because they have restructured your brain & nervous system, and the key is healing the brain, nervous system, and endocrine system.  One of our mods, Rhiannon, said it best when she wrote this:  Rhi's description of healing the brain

 

I'm one who has chronic pain issues, too.  I think it's criminal that they won't give you the hydrocodone, but will give you drugs that can mess up your system for years to come.  At least you can "detox" from hydrocodone, and when it leaves your system it is gone, but you cannot "detox" from cymbalta and Lyrica (a very popular drug for fibro) or any of the psych drugs.

 

You say you have added supplements - please let us know what they are - B vitamins (for example) can be very activating in withdrawal.  And some of the amino acids are counter-indicated too*. Usually with supplements, we advise only starting one at a time, so that if you have a reaction, you know what you are reacting to.  We also believe in titrating them in - taking the smallest, tiniest amount of a new supplement, to test the waters, to see if you are sensitive to it.

 

*you are wise to not go with the expensive commercial "detox" programs - they often use a shotgun approach with aminos - throw all of them in, even when they shouldn't be taken together, or are more effective at different times of day, etc.

 

I see you are on turmeric - have you considered tart cherry, also for pain?  Some people can take it, some people cannot (it has a high histamine profile), it seems to help me (and others).  I don't know what I would do without the turmeric!

 

 

 

I have yet to find anything about vitamins, minerals and herbs here - but then I am not very good in forum settings, this is my first one.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-treatments-diet/

 

So were you on any drugs when you "developed" fibro?  When you said:  

 

 

Bingo! I knew it - after reading thorough lists of side effects carefully hidden away by FDA etc (yes, they can be found) and thinking back on the last 20 years, my Fibromyalgia is nothing but a bunch of drug side effects! Grr...

 

Does that mean you believe that your Fibro is induced from side effects or withdrawal from drugs?

 

I do think it ironic, that the very drugs which are "popularly prescribed" for Fibro can induce it.  What do you think your story is?

 

Here is an alternate view of Fibro from someone who is respected by many members on the SA board:  https://chriskresser.com/is-fibromyalgia-caused-by-sibo-and-leaky-gut/

 

and here are some discussions on SA about it:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2221-fibromyalgia-flare-up-and-withdrawals/

 

and http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2487-fibromyalgia-doctors-chose-pfizer-over-you/

 

I hope you see the sun today!

Wow - that's a lot of info - and questions - so I will give this the time it deserves to respond.I have a guest here this weekend, so it won't be until Monday night, Pacific time in the US.

I am super careful with the supplements - and have scaled back, basically focused mostly on Omegas D3 and a multi - with Biotin, also Bs. I am hoping my hair will grow back!

Yes, I have tossed that around in my head - how much pain did I have before - and what happened as it progressed. Life happened, in a big way, and not all positive. They should have prescribed a marriage counselor, not pills ;)

OK, more on Monday.

Oh, no new, just the broken blood vessels on my feet and legs. And they are sensitive to touch, but not exactly painful, except 2 nights ago.

Still have great energy, not hyper, sleep great. Enjoy a good laugh, am making up songs in the car as I drive home - I am really liking this - I had forgotten about goofy ME. xx

Now I will kick back and watch Outlander. New season - oh yeah! 

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ingridphoenix

Hi Phoenix, you wrote on TooTired's thread:

Hi there - I fought Tramadol tooth and nail - but they insist. I did look up the interactions and showed them to my doctor, he had no idea - 

He does know now that I am well researched and won't take anyone's word at face value. lol

I only take one 50 mg PRN, seriously, only as needed. And i know it is somewhat of an opiate, because I can feel that effect. But not the energy, in fact, it makes me sleepy  ;)

In fact - I did a comparison and found that Hydrocodone (I do not like Oxy) is less troublesome as far as interactions go. Or side effects. 

So I teased him and said you guys are afraid of the law, aren't you - he laughed and said no. Well, I suppose I need to be his patient for a while before i can convince him I am NOT a opiate shopper. gah!

Jan - I live in Oregon - where is this doctor you recommend?

 

I agree with you that hydrocodone and oxy are less evil than any of the serotonin or neuroleptic drugs.  There are still issues with addiction - but it's almost like doctors are afraid to prescribe a drug that might "feel too good." and YES, he is afraid of the law.  YES there are people who are street abusing the opiates - I personally know of 2 deaths from them.  But that ruins it for those of us who might actually benefit from them.

 

Oregon - do you have medical cannabis in Oregon?  It is indicated for Fibro, if you get the right blend.  I would say high CBD might be of great help to you, and the oils, if you can get a good one, have very little psychoactive effects.  FAR BE IT FROM ME to suggest an illegal drug, but - isn't it legal in Oregon?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5030-cannabis-thc-or-marijuana-to-ease-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

As for alternative doctors for fibro, you might look into:

https://www.functionalmedicine.org/practitioner_search.aspx?id=117

 

There, you can search for one nearby.  You can also go to "doctor ratings" and see if they are good or if there are complaints against them.  Functional medicine doctors ARE more expensive.  They run tests that are often not covered by insurance, because they are on the cutting edge of evidence based medicine.  They look at the cascades of interactions in your system, not just the symptoms.  

 

Kelly Brogan, MD, a women's psychiatrist on the East Coast, is carrying the torch for women suffering everywhere.  She has a brand  new book out called: A Mind of Your Own http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZP5WLNY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

 

I can't wait to read it!!!

 

She refers on her Facebook page to this article about Fibromyalgia:

http://eatlocalgrown.com/article/11715-fibromyalgia-causes.html

 

I hope these give you some new tacks to take on your healing journey!  We'll get those wings back, and you can rise from the ashes to be the creative, dynamic being you know that you are!  

Can I say I <3 you? 

You are amazing!! There's a lot to think and write - but - I got to watch Jamie and his Sassenach now. Priorities, you know :) 

BTW - I see my doctor Monday, he IS concerned and wants me to see him often now. I will take the laptop and show him all this.

Good Night now and thanks a million!!!! xo

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ingridphoenix

Hi Phoenix, you wrote on TooTired's thread:

Hi there - I fought Tramadol tooth and nail - but they insist. I did look up the interactions and showed them to my doctor, he had no idea - 

He does know now that I am well researched and won't take anyone's word at face value. lol

I only take one 50 mg PRN, seriously, only as needed. And i know it is somewhat of an opiate, because I can feel that effect. But not the energy, in fact, it makes me sleepy  ;)

In fact - I did a comparison and found that Hydrocodone (I do not like Oxy) is less troublesome as far as interactions go. Or side effects. 

So I teased him and said you guys are afraid of the law, aren't you - he laughed and said no. Well, I suppose I need to be his patient for a while before i can convince him I am NOT a opiate shopper. gah!

Jan - I live in Oregon - where is this doctor you recommend?

 

I agree with you that hydrocodone and oxy are less evil than any of the serotonin or neuroleptic drugs.  There are still issues with addiction - but it's almost like doctors are afraid to prescribe a drug that might "feel too good." and YES, he is afraid of the law.  YES there are people who are street abusing the opiates - I personally know of 2 deaths from them.  But that ruins it for those of us who might actually benefit from them.

 

Oregon - do you have medical cannabis in Oregon?  It is indicated for Fibro, if you get the right blend.  I would say high CBD might be of great help to you, and the oils, if you can get a good one, have very little psychoactive effects.  FAR BE IT FROM ME to suggest an illegal drug, but - isn't it legal in Oregon?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5030-cannabis-thc-or-marijuana-to-ease-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

As for alternative doctors for fibro, you might look into:

https://www.functionalmedicine.org/practitioner_search.aspx?id=117

 

There, you can search for one nearby.  You can also go to "doctor ratings" and see if they are good or if there are complaints against them.  Functional medicine doctors ARE more expensive.  They run tests that are often not covered by insurance, because they are on the cutting edge of evidence based medicine.  They look at the cascades of interactions in your system, not just the symptoms.  

 

Kelly Brogan, MD, a women's psychiatrist on the East Coast, is carrying the torch for women suffering everywhere.  She has a brand  new book out called: A Mind of Your Own http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZP5WLNY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

 

I can't wait to read it!!!

 

She refers on her Facebook page to this article about Fibromyalgia:

http://eatlocalgrown.com/article/11715-fibromyalgia-causes.html

 

I hope these give you some new tacks to take on your healing journey!  We'll get those wings back, and you can rise from the ashes to be the creative, dynamic being you know that you are!  

P.S. - yes, it is legal, but I do not like it at all. I have some oil from a friend, but not enough - I would need a bath - hahaha - and my friend said I'd be flying for sure! higher than any kite, or all kites together?!

Edibles - no, I do not like the feeling of hashish or pot - prefer the high (oh dear, now I sound like a druggie) ok, the positively good energy that allows me to create and garden, take walks, do dishes, write, paint - compose poetry (not really, tried a couple of time) anyhow - all that was shut off. Can't wait to have it back!

Ciao Bella

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ingridphoenix

 

Hi Phoenix, you wrote on TooTired's thread:

Hi there - I fought Tramadol tooth and nail - but they insist. I did look up the interactions and showed them to my doctor, he had no idea - 

He does know now that I am well researched and won't take anyone's word at face value. lol

I only take one 50 mg PRN, seriously, only as needed. And i know it is somewhat of an opiate, because I can feel that effect. But not the energy, in fact, it makes me sleepy  ;)

In fact - I did a comparison and found that Hydrocodone (I do not like Oxy) is less troublesome as far as interactions go. Or side effects. 

So I teased him and said you guys are afraid of the law, aren't you - he laughed and said no. Well, I suppose I need to be his patient for a while before i can convince him I am NOT a opiate shopper. gah!

Jan - I live in Oregon - where is this doctor you recommend?

 

I agree with you that hydrocodone and oxy are less evil than any of the serotonin or neuroleptic drugs.  There are still issues with addiction - but it's almost like doctors are afraid to prescribe a drug that might "feel too good." and YES, he is afraid of the law.  YES there are people who are street abusing the opiates - I personally know of 2 deaths from them.  But that ruins it for those of us who might actually benefit from them.

 

Oregon - do you have medical cannabis in Oregon?  It is indicated for Fibro, if you get the right blend.  I would say high CBD might be of great help to you, and the oils, if you can get a good one, have very little psychoactive effects.  FAR BE IT FROM ME to suggest an illegal drug, but - isn't it legal in Oregon?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5030-cannabis-thc-or-marijuana-to-ease-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

As for alternative doctors for fibro, you might look into:

https://www.functionalmedicine.org/practitioner_search.aspx?id=117

 

There, you can search for one nearby.  You can also go to "doctor ratings" and see if they are good or if there are complaints against them.  Functional medicine doctors ARE more expensive.  They run tests that are often not covered by insurance, because they are on the cutting edge of evidence based medicine.  They look at the cascades of interactions in your system, not just the symptoms.  

 

Kelly Brogan, MD, a women's psychiatrist on the East Coast, is carrying the torch for women suffering everywhere.  She has a brand  new book out called: A Mind of Your Own http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZP5WLNY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

 

I can't wait to read it!!!

 

She refers on her Facebook page to this article about Fibromyalgia:

http://eatlocalgrown.com/article/11715-fibromyalgia-causes.html

 

I hope these give you some new tacks to take on your healing journey!  We'll get those wings back, and you can rise from the ashes to be the creative, dynamic being you know that you are!  

P.S. - yes, it is legal, but I do not like it at all. I have some oil from a friend, but not enough - I would need a bath - hahaha - and my friend said I'd be flying for sure! higher than any kite, or all kites together?!

Edibles - no, I do not like the feeling of hashish or pot - prefer the high (oh dear, now I sound like a druggie) ok, the positively good energy that allows me to create and garden, take walks, do dishes, write, paint - compose poetry (not really, tried a couple of time) anyhow - all that was shut off. Can't wait to have it back!

Ciao Bella

 

Hi JanCarol,

 

It has been a busy week - and I have a few minutes to get back with you.

I have added these >>>NAC, alpha lipoic acid, milk thistle <<<< to my diet and they give me a nice energy, or so it seems. I found this on the 10 causes of Fibro link. :)

I am still not sold on pot - maybe I will try it later, right now I want to get off the ADs first.

I shall keep reading - and will update again tomorrow. 

I did have a major change in dosage - it appears I was on 50 mg of Ami and not 25 mg as i thought - sigh - so need to update my signature again.

Seeing doctor often, email contact daily - he is fascinated and very receptive to what I am (and we are) doing! He is in his late 50s, so I am impressed.

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JanCarol

Hey Ingrid - 

 

please take your time with new supplements.  If you react to one, you want to know which one!

 

Other than that - it sounds like you have a good, supportive doc (rare, very rare).  If he continues to be supportive, please add him to:

 

Recommended doctors, practitioners and clinics

 

Here is a doctor story.

 

I am in my 50's.  My best friend is a few years younger than me.  She was in medical school studying organic chemistry when Prozac came out. 

 

She said to me: "You know, this 'reuptake inhibitor' and 'serotonin' stuff can't be good because - homeostasis would just adjust for the drug, and then you'd have more problems than before."

 

She and I both tried Prozac, and likened it to having a giant finger stuck in your brain wiggling around.  Not a happy thing - so I managed to avoid the worst of the drugs.

 

So - she is probably about the same age as the doctor you are seeing.  People who understand how it works are out there - but too many have found it easier to use "standard of medical practice" and let the drug companies and insurance companies dictate how they practice medicine.  AND having drug ads on TV sends people running to their GP insisting on getting a drug for their problem.

 

OK I'm just storytelling now - back to your thread!

 

(I am on NAC & milk thistle, I was on ALA for awhile -cost money, did nothing -but I cannot live without NAC, and now that I know about its role in the glutathione cascade - well.  It's on the list for awhile now.)

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ingridphoenix

I am grazing here and there on the site - popping in and out of different conversations, mining for knowledge and gold! ;) 

Found this doctor mentioned and so I looked up Dr Grace Jackson - wow. I must share with my doctor. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Drug-Induced-Dementia-MD-Grace-Jackson/dp/1438972318

 

Oh my - I had no idea! 

 

I will consider adding my doc, once I have 'trained' him well :)

 

Also read a lot of folks experience pains. I have had pains since the 80's - so I would not know the difference, maybe that's a blessing on this journey?

Doing OK, worked hard - clearing out and cleaning up - slowly - successes in my efforts to sell things (ebay etc) make me happy and it is nice to feel more motivated.

Just the simple knowledge of taking less of the stuff is encouraging to me.

I am figuring out that NONE of my doctors were ever really qualified to diagnose me with a Major Depression Disorder. I wish they had sent me to marriage counseling instead, or told me to leave my alcoholic husband.

Things would be so different now. - 

But, it is not too late - I feel the feathers coming in ;)

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JanCarol

G'day Ingrid - 

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but I have heard of hemp oil salve that might do wonderful things for your swollen veins on your feet and ankles. 

 

That's not smoking, vaping, eating, or swallowing oil, it's topical.  That might help with pain, too.

 

Just thought of you when I saw this:  https://healthyhempoil.com/hemp-oil-skin-benefits/

 

I didn't look to see if it was hemp seed oil, or CBD oil salve - but there are other articles and videos on the web about it.

 

Topical = less likely to interfere with withdrawal.  

 

It's good to see you "waking up" to new ways of looking at things!   :)

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ingridphoenix

G'day Ingrid - 

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but I have heard of hemp oil salve that might do wonderful things for your swollen veins on your feet and ankles. 

 

That's not smoking, vaping, eating, or swallowing oil, it's topical.  That might help with pain, too.

 

Just thought of you when I saw this:  https://healthyhempoil.com/hemp-oil-skin-benefits/

 

I didn't look to see if it was hemp seed oil, or CBD oil salve - but there are other articles and videos on the web about it.

 

Topical = less likely to interfere with withdrawal.  

 

It's good to see you "waking up" to new ways of looking at things!   :)

Oh - and Good Morning to you! I just so happen to have some oil a friend gave to me. 

I'll be anointing myself then here in a bit - see how that feels. we have to have a medical card to get that, and I am not sure if my doc would be one to give me one. Something to explore in one of my many messages to him.

Midnight here, time to go and get some sleep - thanks for checking in :) xx

 

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ingridphoenix

Well, well -  today is 4 weeks since I did a 50% drop (when I first came here I had already done it and all went well)

I am not sure if I should chalk up my pain to being the Fibromyalgia pain I had not felt for many years, due to being on the ADs, or if I simply over-did it carrying boxes and such - but only 1 day,. or - if this is simply a sign of the meds leaving my body. 

I also had some major emotional issues, legit ones too - may have over reacted to the matter - but I know crying spells and super worried translates in a day off for me. It sure did this time.

I am having $$ issues and although these always resolve themselves, I reacted strongly. I have since settled down - and the money matter is getting resolved.

Physical reaction to it all is major pain in the abdominal muscle areas, my back, and the joints of knees touching ea other whilst lying down, an incredible need to sleep - yes dreams, but not unpleasant ones, in fact, I enjoyed them.

I identify with being an Empath, and am very sensitive and things going on at work etc affect me physically - I can literally feel discord, dissonance - always have - and now there's a lot - 

I went to sleep last night at 7:30, slept thru and besides an hour here and there, I slept til 2 pm.

It is 3:30 now and am ready to get more sleep. I forced myself to eat, as I had not eaten, but I was not hungry. 

I will hold off tapering until I feel better. 

Although I am tired of the side effects FROM the ADs (yes, still suffering from them; they were what prompted me to get off them in the first place)

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