elle: help tapering Remeron

[SquirrellyGirl]

How are you today, Elle?

 

I honestly can't say how long this will last since these things are so individual.  You'll need to not change anything with the remeron and provide consistency for your nervous system so it can find stability again.  

 

I understand the thoughts are racing like crazy, but please try to interrupt them when they are wheeling out of control over fear.  Tell yourself "this is the withdrawal talking again, and I don't want to listen!"  One of the mantras we use in EBT when we are at a 5 brain state, where everything is negative, anxious, fearful, stressed out is "Do not judge, minimize harm, know it will pass."  When we are in this place we judge - ourselves, others, the situation we find ourselves.  Minimize harm:  minimize the harm this brain state is doing to us by soothing ourselves, being gentle with ourselves, nurturing ourselves.  Know it will pass:  this will not last forever; this brain state will pass, this withdrawal will pass - it WILL pass.

 

The last mantra that helped me is "I can take one moment at a time" because when we are in this "space," we project our fears into the future, what if I will be like this forever, what if it will NEVER change, etc.  Well, when you think about this never ending, we truly can't cope.  And so we must only deal with this moment, and the next, and the next.  In this way we can get through days and weeks to the place where things really do change for the better!  So, I can take one moment at a time.

 

Recite these mantras over and over and over.  Imagine writing the words on a chalkboard as you say or think them.  Say them in a voice as if you are happy about what you are saying, laughing and light.  These things really do help.

 

SG

[SquirrellyGirl]

Elle, I am including this link to another person's intro since she is dealing with akathesia as well.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11886-wiltings-akathisia-nightmare/?p=223354

 

SG

[elle]

Im sorry I had to updose...  sadly it did not help last night..  I updosed to the exact same amount I cut by about 22 days ago..  Will this help??  I am desperate??  Im now scared that I have screwed up by updosing but honestly Im afraid Im going to end up in a hospital as the absence of sleep is wearing on my mind and body..   If the updose works how long will it take???   Im afriad that I am now reacting badly to the Remeron completely??  paradoxical??  does that even make sense??  Im really in bad shape.. please help me   it seems the updose it causing more anxiety??  really in bad shape

[savinggrace]

Hi Elle,

 

With these dose changes did you change from pills to water tapering in the last 22 days? I ask because when I tried this some years ago, I felt extreme w/d. For me, I think I absorbed the liquid differently than the pills. This doesn't mean liquid tapering won't work for you, but it may be another change your brain is adapting to. You must keep telling yourself you are going to be okay. Please try the hot bath. Sometimes it is the only thing that calms me...turn the lights off and sit in the hot bath and breathe.

 

 

Grace

[elle]

Kind of but not really.... I took the same pill and dissolved it in water.. but when I dropped to 3.75  I just cut the pil in quarters and swallowed..  but when I dissolved in water I always shook it well before each syringe pull so I dont see how it could be different???  Will the updose help level me out now that so much time has passed??  I need relief today as my body cannot keep enduring this..  I already went to benzo ACUTE which lasted 1 year and my body/brain is too fragile

[Altostrata]

elle, how much Remeron are you taking now, and how? Tablet, liquid, or a combination?

 

What time of day do you take your drugs? What is your daily symptom pattern? Exactly what happens after you take Remeron, and at what time?

 

Exactly what tests have you had showing the state of your liver and hemolytic anemia? Exactly how was the anemia diagnosed?

 

Please be aware that having a genetic mutation is not having a disease. Being positive for a MTHFR G6PD variation does NOT mean you have hemolytic anemia or any other disease.

[elle]

I take a 15 mg pill and put it in water..  then I would draw out approx 4.2% (my family figures out the calculations so 20% up from 3.75) and throw away the rest down the drain..   when I made the first cut down to 3.75, instead of dropping the pill in water I cut them into 4th and took 1/4 of the pill for that time..  six days later I got HIT HARD...    it hasn't stopped since.   so my family is now making my pill in water again..  I updosed last night because I cannot take it anymore.  It didn't provide any relief (but I didnt think it would that soon anyway)

 

I take it at 930 every night..  it used to put me to sleep for awhile but since 6 days after the cut I don't even get drowsy..  

 

the G6pd was a blood test... my liver tests show they are struggling bad but not anemia..     desperate for help... I know Im much worse because Im still dealing with benzo withdraw..  My doctor scared me to get off the remeron fast!! and I made a huge mistake out of fear.  I don't want to do that again so I am here asking for help..  I don't know how much longer I can do this..

[Altostrata]

What is the dosage of Remeron you're taking now? It will take at least 4 days for it to take full effect.

 

Your doctor frightened you unnecessarily. You do not presently have hemolytic anemia. What other drugs are you taking? Do you have a history of drinking alcohol?

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html
and copy and paste the results in this topic.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

Magnesium in particular can be relaxing for sleep.

[elle]

its approx 4.6 I believe (family does this accurate for me)   NEVER drank alcohol.  I also take thyroid.  and suppose to start HRT but need to figure this out first.    I already take magnesium.. fish oil i dont do well on since benzo w/d..       what else should I do?

[Altostrata]

How much magnesium do you take, what kind, and when?

[elle]

Magnesium Malate   600 mg a day?   I was also taking some Calm Magnesium Citrate..  I also was taking magnesium baths often this hits..

[savinggrace]

Elle,

 

Is this doctor that has frightened you the same one who is writing the scripts for the remeron?

[Altostrata]

Rather than taking one 600mg mag maleate tablet, how about sipping a little Natural Calm throughout the day? Mag is more effective in small amounts taken periodically.

[elle]

I take it in divided doses of 150  four times a day..

[Altostrata]

You may get more effect from sipping Calm magnesium.

[elle]

ok I will start it.. but it was upsetting my stomach so I stopped   what else   do I do??  to help stabliize??

[elle]

ANYTHING ELSE TO HELP??

[KarenB]

Okay Elle, how about trying something like some gentle yoga?  Lying on your back with your legs up the wall is really good for soothing your Central Nervous System.  I do that myself and it always feels good.  Or getting into child's pose - very comforting.  You can google how to do these if you haven't done them before.  I also like Salute to Inner Calm - it has lovely slow movements so it's good for if you're no good at sitting still. 

 

Keeping calm is always the first step to healing. 

[Altostrata]

The Calm magnesium upset your stomach because you are taking too much at once. I would put a half-teaspoon in a glass of water and sip it over an hour or so, not drink it all at once.

[savinggrace]

Hi Elle,

 

How are you doing?

 

Grace

[elle]

I am so scared and suffering alot still..  I'm still healing from the benzo damage so I need to be careful.  Thank you savinggrace for checking on me.  Im feeling so alone and frightened.

 

 

Can anyone help??  I have a friend who just started an antidepressant (been on it about a month she said)  I told her how bad these medicines are..  since she has only been on it a month can she just stop it?  or what can she do to get off before she develops a tolerance??  and suffers like the rest of us??  I want to try and help her. (altho Im in such bad shape its hard to even talk to her)

[savinggrace]

Elle,

I would encourage her to start tapering at a 10% rate if she feels stable. Did the meds make her feel better? Does she feel well enough to start tapering? It's possible that she could taper faster since she has been on such a short time, but I would encourage her to listen to her body and not let anyone bully her into a too rapid taper or worse, a cold-turkey. I think the rate at which she would taper depends on how she responds to the first cut. Hopefully you can apply what you have learned here to help here. Be sure to send her to the links on the home page.

 

I am not a moderator, but this is what I would advise anyone who is open to stopping the drugs before they do more harm.

 

Glad you checked back in. Glad you are finding the strength to stay the course.

 

Grace

[elle]

does she really have to do 10% if she only been on it a short time???  It would take her a year to taper off something shes only been on a month?  I thought she could taper faster??  maybe Im wrong?

[savinggrace]

you know, Elle, there are no definitive answers here. I think a lot of it depends on how she is feeling right now. It's hard to know how fast someone can taper. There are people here that have had a hard time tapering after 5 days on a drug. Many of us try making bigger cuts at first and end up back where we started. Others can cold-turkey and are okay. There's just no one-size fits all here. The basic principles are decide on a cut, pay close attention to symptoms, and adjust accordingly. It is important to give one's brain enough time to register the cut. Sometimes people cut before the previous cut has caught up with them fully. That is the danger...accumulation of cuts that catch up with you and put you into severe withdrawal.

 

I am not an expert, a moderator, or a doctor, but this is what I would be emphasizing with any friend of mine.

 

It's nice you have any energy at all to give your friend!

 

Grace

[elle]

thanks savinggrace, actually I don't have the energy or even clarity of mind right now to get involved at all to help her, but..  I hate these drugs so bad now knowing what they do...  I want to at least give her a starting point, but obviously I don't even know how to do this...  I am going to try and micro taper (when Im stable) but not even sure myself what is the norm?  is it 10% per month or per 2 weeks?  thanks again

[savinggrace]

Most important thing is to feel reasonably stable before your next cut. Generally I think 3 weeks is the usual recommendation, but considering how bad you were, and still are, I would not consider making a cut yet. Your body/brain have been through a lot. They need time to adapt. Read the link to how your brain remodels on the home page. It explains very clearly this need for tapering slowly.

[KarenB]

Generally if someone has take their drug for a month or less, they can taper faster than 10% per month.  As to exactly how fast etc we'd need to know more specifics like which drug they are taking and what dose.  Would your friend like to start a topic for themselves?

 

(And thank you Grace for your help there - I agree it's always good to err on the side of caution if you are unsure of details).

 

For 'regular' tapering we advise reducing by no more than 10% per month, and always waiting longer if need be. 

[elle]

what if I do a micro taper and pull a small amount each day?  Is it still 10%?

[Irvingkirsch]

I do not know how to use this site very well..  If someone could please give me some suggestions.  I found out today that I am highly allergic to a medication that I have been trying to taper...   

 

I have a MTHFR called G6PD and there are about 20 medications i should NEVER take, Remeron is one of them.  I am currently on approximately 4.5 mg (and tapering slowly)  However, My doctor said to stop it immediately because my health has been declining fast since I've been on this medicine but no one ever knew this medicine was so bad for my genetics...      

 

I know it can be dangerous to stop any medication cold turkey,  so can I switch to something similar to continue my taper?   apparently I am ok to take Amytriptoline so I am wondering instead of doing a cold turkey off Remeron immediately can I cross over to amytriptoline to continue my taper (I would only replace one for another because Im still tapering, not to stay on it forever as I want off all these horrible medicines)

 

I would be so grateful for any ideas?  Thank you

 

HI, I've got off Remeron two differnt ways in the past. I've done it by slowly decreasing the dosages over a period of 8 weeks, which was absolute slow torture. I also just cold turkeyed it. Which was easier? The cold turkey method. My life was hell for a month after cold turkeying it, but it was over eventually. The slow way was absolute hell for like 3 months. That's just my experience though. 

[elle]

I dont dare cold turkey.  but if I micro taper, then is it still 10% per month

[SquirrellyGirl]

This should help:  Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

SG

[KarenB]

Yes, you can work out the dosages to be sure you are not micro-tapering more than 10% each month.

 

For example you could taper 2.5% per week for four weeks.  The important thing is to be aware of how you react to each drop, and hold if necessary. 

[savinggrace]

Hope YOU are doing okay, Elle.  Let us know when you are up to it.

 

Grace

[Irvingkirsch]

I dont dare cold turkey.  but if I micro taper, then is it still 10% per month

 

Hi, I don't know if you have seen the remeron pill, but it would be physically impossible to cut exactly 10% off of it.

[savinggrace]

No, of course you can't. It's hard to do, but with a digital scale we measure out 4 mg. as best we can.

 

Grace

[Irvingkirsch]

No, of course you can't. It's hard to do, but with a digital scale we measure out 4 mg. as best we can.

 

Grace

 

Oh wow I didn't realize that there was information availible on potency per weight. Had I known this, my life would have ben significantly better over the last ten years. Thanks for letting me know.