Help777: journal

[JanCarol]

Hey Help - 

 

First, if you increase your lithium, you will have a higher dose to taper from.  There is no evidence that it will ease the emotional symptoms of withdrawal.

 

Yes, it is a flattening, a deadening of emotions - no highs, no lows.  My P-doc told me that it was good for "bipolar depression" but all the studies I had seen said that it could be depressing.  Sure, I didn't get upset as much, but I could no longer feel pleasure, either - and it was that which drove me suicidal.

 

It's complicated - because I was also on PPI's and statins, and I think that the statins were suffocating my brain too.  So imagine, the statins have a stranglehold on my brain from the inside, and the lithium threw a cold wet blanket on the outside of my brain.  Not much going on there.  I sat.  I smoked.  I read books.  I didn't understand much of what I read, but I kept doing it out of habit.  I would meet with friends, but had nothing to talk about because I didn't care about anything, I didn't have anything that was of worth to a conversation.  What did you do today?  I sat outside and smoked and read books.  Again.  

 

I do think that the lithium is protecting you from the worst of the withdrawal.  So imagine your extreme emotions now - and multiply it times 3 or 10.  It could easily be that much worse.  I'm not discounting your suffering - it is very real.  I'm just saying, no matter what you are suffering - in withdrawal - it can always be worse.

 

As for advice, on April 9 I told you:

Please hold for around 3 months.

 

Karen agreed:

I echo what JC said about holding for a few months

 

And Ali did too:

I will also echo what JC and Karen said about holding for a couple of months

 

and emphasized how long you should hold.  You did not do this.

 

This is why you are having symptoms.  You dropped 2 strong drugs - both the effexor and the prozac - way too fast.

 

If you are to be helped by a reinstatement, it is probably Prozac that is recommended for reinstatement.  Alto seems to think that you had a lot of issues going on when you started the Prozac, and the symptoms you had at the time may not even be connected to the Prozac.  Prozac is the "easiest" to get off of, while Lexapro is one of the hardest.   It looks like Lexapro may be twice as hard to come off of than Prozac, but - everyone is different, and Prozac, the "easiest" has presented problems for people, too.

 

If you really really must do something, you could try 0.5 or 1 mg of Prozac, for 4 days.  If you don't get any relief from that, or it makes things worse - then you can drop it.  If it helps some, but you are still suffering, then you can increase it by TINY amounts (.25 mg - you have the liquid, you can do this!) every 5 days.  It will not REMOVE your symptoms, but it might just make them bearable.

 

Trying other herbs, or other psych drugs from what you were on, is just tying the knot tighter.  Our goal is to loosen the knot, so that you can get free.  You know how a knot will get tighter when you struggle with it?  I perceive that is what you are doing, as SquirrellyGirl implied.

 

Otherwise, live with the choice you have made.  SquirrellyGirl made another statement, elsewhere on site, where she compared withdrawal to a roller coaster.

 

You've gotten on, and it goes up and down and is scary and uncomfortable.  You can drive yourself mad screaming and wailing how you want to get off - or you can just hunker down and realize - it's going to pass.  It will be over.  

 

You've had a number of windows and that is promising.  Because of these windows, I'm reluctant to recommend reinstatement.  But the longer this goes, the less likely a reinstatement is to work.  Please learn more about it here:  About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Stop Withdrawal Symptoms

 

You said (before you CT'd your drugs):

 I hate the thought of reinstating or holding still for so long because I feel they are making my moods cycle. 

 

Actually, this "mood cycling" is just the Waves and Windows pattern of healing.  And this reluctance to hold has gotten you into a bit of a pickle.

 

Another thing you said before CT'ing your drugs:

The last 3 days since I've switched to the liquid prozac I've had increased energy, followed by difficulty sleeping.  Last night it was very difficult to sleep at all due to feeling 'wired'.  When I was taking the 10 mg of the prozac powder I was eyeballing half of the 20 mg capsule.  I wonder if perhaps I was consuming a bit less than half of the capsule, and then when I replaced it with 10 mg of liquid prozac I was actually unintentionally increasing the dose slightly from what I was used to, explaining the activating symptoms I have? 

 

Actually, I hope you didn't taper right away into the liquid.  We recommend a switch to liquid be accompanied by a 2-3 week hold at the same dose - because it is so frequent that people react to changes in formulation.

 

People react if you change from one generic to another.  People react when you move from Extended Release to Immediate Release.  People react when they shift from a brand name to a generic, or back again.  Switching from tablet or capsule to liquid would be the same.

 

But I think you CT'd before you even gave this a chance to adjust.

 

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm scolding you here - but I see this pattern day in and day out - we work very hard here to give our best, most compassionate and careful suggestions, and then when we are ignored, we are asked to pick up the pieces.  I don't mean to guilt trip you - instead I hope I am pointing you to considerations for your future choices:  Six Mistakes I've Made In Withdrawal

 

You talked about 

how to stop ruminating thoughts? 

 

Rumination is problem solving gone amok.  It was a survival skill in the good old days when we had to keep the tiger out of the village, or figure out a way to get to the coconuts on the other side of the stream, or find out what is good to eat, what is bad to eat, and how to cultivate it.  But now, our problems are less "solvable" - and we ruminate on things like "should I have said that?" or "good god!  What do they think of me?"  And then, our rumination becomes imagination as it projects into situations that do not exist.  

 

I was just reviewing Byron Katies 4 Questions:

1. Is it true? (Yes or no. If no, move to 3.)
2. Can you absolutely know that it's true? (Yes or no.)
3. How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought?
4. Who would you be without the thought?

 

BrassMonkey has given you another alternative way to work on those thoughts, as well.  He's worked very hard on the handling of these Neuro-emotions and really, that's probably what you need to focus on most - is a technique - a tool - or several tools - that you can use to help you live through the panic.

 

Not Doing Anything is the hardest work of all, sometimes.

 

You commented on your doctor:

 I just picked up the disability forms that I had to have him complete for work and I was very surprised to see his explanation of the medical leave....bipolar affective disorder II (anxiety and depression) medication change, is what he wrot

 

Actually, even though I've undiagnosed myself - I find that the bipolar 2 label is useful.  It enables me to refuse drugs.  YOU CAN'T GIVE ME THAT - BIPOLAR 2, you know.  And they heed it.  

 

Lastly, you ask:

I have another question...once I have recovered from wd is it possible I actually have a mood disorder? What if I always have these cycles of irritability and anger and depression? Do organic mood disorders exist? And if so are there meds that are advised instead of ad use?

 

After looking at 100's of case histories, I can say unequivocally that most of it is the drugs.  Yes, there was an "original condition" - but history tells us ("Anatomy of an Epidemic," Robert Whitaker) that these mood conditions, these "madness" conditions used to be episodic, not chronic lifelong disorders.  It wasn't until we drugged them, that they became chronic.  The drugs sensitize you to the very thing they are trying to alleviate!

 

So - yes - you may always have to manage your mood.  I do.  I work very hard on my mood, with exercise, good food, and learning to be a better, gentler communicator.  It is never far from my awareness at all times - because if I let my mood get out of hand, I could hurt people that I love.  Nobody but me can control it.  I can "dampen" it with drugs, but only I can learn to understand it, and find channels to use those feelings and put them to work.

 

But - you may enjoy reading:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6888-is-it-withdrawal-or-relapse-or-something-else/

 

I hope you see the Sun today.

[btdt]

Thank you. I'm glad you're there. I will revisit self care and try some more strategies. I can't stand voices of music to meditate either. The ocean appeals to me. Being outside in the sun near water or green can be calming. Can I ask if this level of distress is common for wd? If you can relate, is it something that lessens over time or does it feels this bad at times still? Thank you for your suggestions.

Though I have not had extreme crying in a long time... 

 

I would never say never.. as I learned the hard way wd is a trickster... but it did hit me right now I would cry it out for a time ..depending on my energy level I may take a walk..or go have an epsom salt bath... if I did not feel like that magnesium or taurine may be my next choice then bed... the ocean and heat on my back... sometimes I have needed to eat... I know it sounds odd but it is true food can help me at times. Other times I know I can't eat but water may help. 

 

That is how I would deal with it... there are times with experience you know right off this is wd... and that in itself helps and the experience helps too cause you know it will end.. in the early days you don't have the comfort of this knowledge.  

 

With crying I have had all sorts of other things... agitated crying self loathing crying no energy crying body pain crying... it would depend on what came with the crying what way I would turn and my resource at the time. 

 

I hope it turns around for you soon... 

 

came back after posting the above as I read this

 

"Otherwise, live with the choice you have made.  SquirrellyGirl made another statement, elsewhere on site, where she compared withdrawal to a roller coaster.

 

You've gotten on, and it goes up and down and is scary and uncomfortable.  You can drive yourself mad screaming and wailing how you want to get off - or you can just hunker down and realize - it's going to pass.  It will be over. "

 

It is so true... and if you think about a roller coaster for those who don't like them.. I don't now I hate them...but I did at one time love them.... 

 

now if I were forced to ride one I would focus on one thing that was not moving and stay focused on it till it stopped... in a way it is a distraction from the ride.. and it also gives a form of reference when it feels like things are getting out of control. It maybe all about the focus and yes I can recall having to force my brain to focus I still have to do this often.... as it does not want to behave... it takes work and practice but it can offer some from of reference while your on the ride. 

peace

[Altostrata]

Help, doctors believe that an adverse reaction to an antidepressant or even withdrawal syndrome is confirmation of bipolar disorder. That is nonsense. Many, many people here have gotten diagnoses of "bipolar [miscellaneous]" for that very reason.

 

If I were you, I would hold the lithium steady while you sort out the antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.

 

Spells of weeping are very common in withdrawal syndrome, as is irritability, hypersensitivity to all kinds of stimuli, and feeling like you can't cope.

 

I agree with JanCarol's very good and complete post -- you might try a very small amount of Prozac. We don't know why, but it sometimes is an effective bridge off Effexor.

 

After you dropped Effexor and you were taking Prozac only, before you reduced Prozac, how did you feel?

[Help777]

I apologize if SA has felt disrespected in any way. The expert advice has been always been extremely appreciated and valued by me. But when I am bombarded by family, doctors and friends that are pharmacists telling me otherwise...it has been a very confusing and frustrating process. I'm sorry if me asking further SA members for advice was not the appropriate way to manage this inner conflict. I guess at the end I made bad decisions.

Thank you for the information and help. I do hope this knowledge will eventually reach the doctors and community everywhere so that the how to of withdrawal is not so ridden with misinformation and different opinions.

[btdt]

Oh, my understanding of Effexor as an SNRI is that the norepinephrine receptors aren't engaged much until you reach 150 mg and higher, so below that it is operating more as an SSRI.

 

SG

I have read this too many times and I don't think it is always true.  I think it depends on the person and how they react to the drug some people are more sensitive to the norepinephrine than others and it shows up in the sorts of effects they have while on effexor and bp increase can be a sign of tolerance not just long term use... my bp was off the charts when I was in tolerance with Effexor at times it went over 200 and was completely erratic.. I would get a drug and it would drop too low ...the effect of bp meds causing my bp to go too low still exists today... though I no longer have really high bp like I had while on effexor. 

oddly enough I just looked up the side effects of norepinephrine it sounds like what I had in tolerance

Cardiovascular side effects from norepinephrine (NE) can be serious. The drug can produce profound hypertension, local vasoconstriction, and tissue hypoxia. NE-induced hypertension typically presents as headache, photophobia, stabbing chest pain, pallor, intense sweating, and/or vomiting.

I had some of these to a lesser degree while on E... way worse near the end. 

 

Effexor and any Ad can have delayed wd... it can hit long after you stop taking the drug. 

[Help777]

I'm sorry for posting again. I am having a terrible 2 days. I can't stand feeling like this any more. If I'm not crying or screaming I'm struggling to hold it back. Life is no longer worth living like this. Family and friends don't understand and are getting frustrated with how long recovery is taking. I'm losing hope myself. I want a wait out. Do you feel this way?

[Shep]

I think we all feel this way at times, Help. This is a very long process and not at all understood by doctors and since we are all raised to respect and listen to doctors, our friends and family don't understand this, either. 

 

But when you say things like "Life is no longer worth living like this" and "I'm losing hope myself. I want a way out", you start spiraling into some very dark thoughts. 

 

This is when you need to stock of some non-drug coping strategies to get you through this. There are many things you can do. Everything from distraction by watching TV to taking a walk in nature or listening to guided meditations. 

 

Being able to "tune out" these dark thoughts is key to making this process less difficult because these thoughts have a way of creeping in and draining you of your energy and eventually your hope. It actually isn't the thoughts that do this - it's your reaction to the thoughts. So while you don't have any control on these thoughts showing up, you do have some control on how much you engage with them. 

 

And the more you practice distracting, the easier it becomes and the more control you'll feel. The thing about withdrawal is it gives us many chances to practice this, so we end up with a bit of the Buddha in us when we heal. 

 

A wise sage named Mooji puts it this way - "Your thoughts are just visitors but you are not a hotel. Don't let them in."

 

Even if the thoughts and emotions seem valid, such as thoughts about worry over employment or housing, they are still catastrophizing and therefore, fiction. The more you can incorporate these coping skills, the brighter your future will be. 

 

I like to visualize my thoughts and emotions as actual visitors and in my mind, I watch them pass as if they are characters in a play. I mean, they really aren't anything to me, so why give them importance? Lol! They're just these ridiculous manifestations of withdrawal. 

 

This is a hard concept to learn, especially for those of us drugged for years. But it is possible. And learning skills like this are the real take away from this hard journey. In the end, we do come out of this much healthier and happier. 

 

This is the latest great find in my growing list of mindfulness meditations and I'll share it with you because it helps teach you to stay focused on your breath and focused on the present moment. And to keep those dark thoughts far away. Just let them pass by. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3571488197&feature=iv&src_vid=FiPDV9L5qpQ&v=1vx8iUvfyCY

 

Give yourself credit for researching your meds and doing the work to come off and heal.  Don't give up now. This is just the hard part of a very worthwhile journey. 

 

[Help777]

Tuning out these thoughts have proven to be my greatest weakness. I absolutely engage with them, I become consumed and start to feel that I am some kind of monster, possessed because the out of control anger and weeping take on a life of their own. Sometimes staying by myself quiet in the house helps as stimulation of any kind can be a trigger: noise, music, people talking, decisions to be made, even being a passenger in traffic becomes way to much and then i just start spiralling down into this dark place that ive never been before prior to withdrawal. My sister just said to me in the ohone that that is depression talking and i should go back to my doctor. I do have to stop these thiughts but when they reflect how i feel it is very difficult to dismiss them or find any distortions in them. I hate myself for my extreme emotions and outbursts that feel out of control and wreaking havoc on my family.

It does help hearing experiences from others...i feel less alone and more confident that this is wd and that it will end. Thank you for replying to me.

[Shep]

That's a very good description of where you're at now, Help. Thank you for writing it.

 

Listen, this is a process. Nobody listens to a few guided meditations and all of a sudden "gets it". But it's that very process that makes it work. I listened to so many Mooji videos that my looping thoughts started looping Mooji! It was both very cool and very weird. But it did help a LOT.

 

I came off of 6 drugs almost all cold turkey and rapid taper after 30 years with a manic depressive / schizoaffective diagnosis. And emotionally I am far better off than I've ever been. I have dp/dr and insomnia and some memory problems, but I'm still in a much better place than I'd be if I stayed on these drugs. 

 

You're definitely not alone. Just one more quick video for you. This is my favorite and it was the first one I ever listened to when I was in the acute stages of benzo withdrawal:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZaCnyMN-Zw

 

You're not some monster. Nothing at all is wrong with you. This is something that happened to you. It's iatrogenic damage. If your sister, or anyone else, tells you it's depression and you should go back to the doctor, thank them for caring enough to give you an opinion and then calmly change the subject. They don't understand and it may take too much energy to try and convince them. The proof is in the healing. To be honest, I have two friends who say they are amazed at how calmly I've survived coming off these drugs. Other people are seeing the way I simply take stressful situations in stride simply because learning how not to engage in my own toxic thoughts also taught me how not to engage with stressful situations. 

 

If you can catch the thoughts early on, you can keep toxic thoughts from becoming toxic emotions, which is where that feeling of being  overwhelmed comes from. But it's a process. Please don't beat yourself up while you're learning. 

 

Hang in there. You're going to be okay in the end. 

[Help777]

Please help me with this one....I have just come through the worst 4 day wave. I look back over the last 4 weeks since stooping effexor as i have been keeping a log and graph and what I see are waves lasting 3-5 days then a 2-3 day window. There hasn't been an improvement yet with that pattern. This last wave was the worst with anger and agitation and crying spells so bad i would hit myself to feel pain and truly wanted to die. I wouldn't kill myself but I desperately wanted to die to escape the hell of how much hatred I felt for everything. The windows I have had almost scare me because I'm suddenly happy, excited, full of energy yet also irritable at rhe same time, making this an uncomfortable feeling even though I'm relieved to not feel so much dread it is still an unsettling feeling. That feeling ends again when another wave hits quickly and I snap into this angry, crying, hell again. I have read the threads about bipolar here and am truly listening to what you are telling me in my thread and please do not feel misheard, but I am scared that maybe I really do have an element of bp. I saw my psychiatrist last night who feels I have withdrawal symptoms on top of my already bpII symptoms that he feels I have had for years. I talked to him about SA and the idea of resinstating small amount of prozac. He says he's not opposed but does not feel it will help, and wants to see me increase the lithium or add an antipsychotic.

I've had switching moods for the last several years, mind you shorter in length. Again, were they caused by the ssri. My moods are what led me to seek help prior to starting an ssri when I thought it was just anxiety and anger issues. I just want to figue out what will help me. A window started this morning but I still feel agitated and I am not sure I can get through another wave again. Please help.

[Help777]

Moved from "Adverse Drug Effects or Bipolar? Mood Swings, Mania, Hypomania"

 

I know I have posted here before but i am scared...I have had mood issues before ssris, lots during and the worst now after being off of ssri for 4 weeks. I wonder if I really do need a mood stabilizer like lithium. I have these boards so many times, but feel really conflicted with how bad I am feeling and what my dr is saying....
Please help me with this one....I have just come through the worst 4 day wave. I look back over the last 4 weeks since stooping effexor as i have been keeping a log and graph and what I see are waves lasting 3-5 days then a 2-3 day window. There hasn't been an improvement yet with that pattern. This last wave was the worst with anger and agitation and crying spells so bad i would hit myself to feel pain and truly wanted to die. I wouldn't kill myself but I desperately wanted to die to escape the hell of how much hatred I felt for everything. The windows I have had almost scare me because I'm suddenly happy, excited, full of energy yet also irritable at rhe same time, making this an uncomfortable feeling even though I'm relieved to not feel so much dread it is still an unsettling feeling. That feeling ends again when another wave hits quickly and I snap into this angry, crying, hell again. I have read the threads about bipolar here and am truly listening to what you are telling me in my thread and please do not feel misheard, but I am scared that maybe I really do have an element of bp. I saw my psychiatrist last night who feels I have withdrawal symptoms on top of my already bpII symptoms that he feels I have had for years. I talked to him about SA and the idea of resinstating small amount of prozac. He says he's not opposed but does not feel it will help, and wants to see me increase the lithium or add an antipsychotic.
I've had switching moods for the last several years, mind you shorter in length. Again, were they caused by the ssri. My moods are what led me to seek help prior to starting an ssri when I thought it was just anxiety and anger issues. I just want to figue out what will help me. A window started this morning but I still feel agitated and I am not sure I can get through another wave again. Please help.

Edited June 14, 2016 by JanCarol
moved post - please keep your log in your intro thread.

[scallywag]

Help Okay, you've got input from your psychiatrist now. He's not against but not 100% supportive of what's been suggested here - reinstate Prozac at 0.5 mg or 1 mg and carefully observe and report how you're doing. I'd encourage you to reread all of what JanCarol posted above.

 

I've got good news and bad news, all in 7 words: It is up to you to decide. What are your thoughts about next steps?

[Altostrata]

Help, do not change more than one drug at once, or you won't know what's doing what. Your psychiatrist should know this.

 

If I were you, I'd try 1mg Prozac to see if it helps. If it does, no need to fiddle with the other drugs.

[JanCarol]

Hey Help - 

 

I'm sorry you are struggling.    You withdrew from 2 powerful drugs too fast - less than a month ago.  Your rollercoaster ride could get very intense and long indeed.

 

Please consider reinstating Prozac, while it is still early.

 

You write:

Please help me with this one....I have just come through the worst 4 day wave. I look back over the last 4 weeks since stooping effexor as i have been keeping a log and graph and what I see are waves lasting 3-5 days then a 2-3 day window. There hasn't been an improvement yet with that pattern. This last wave was the worst with anger and agitation and crying spells so bad i would hit myself to feel pain and truly wanted to die.

 

Mania and hypomania are symptoms of withdrawal.  This is how the BP2 "diagnosis" got invented, because people were "flipping" on - and off - these drugs.  (like me!)

 

Because you used to see windows, and you haven't this time - it makes me think that this hypomania is withdrawal from these abrupt and extreme tapers.

 

Reinstating just 1 mg of Prozac will answer your question - is it withdrawal or is it mania?

 

Sometimes, relief comes within hours of the first dose.  Sometimes it takes a few days.  Either way, 1 mg Prozac is, as your p-doc noted, such a low amount.  This minimizes side effect risks, as well as "Bipolar" risks.  Additionally, prozac is not the worst for "flipping bipolars" (even if it's not the best, either).

 

You are in the window of opportunity for reinstatement.  If you "tough it out" and 3 months from now you are desperate to try something, then, maybe the window of opportunity will be closed.  It becomes more "iffy" the longer it goes.

 

If you are in withdrawal, the cognitive techniques will help - but will also be limited, because your brain is busy, and unavailable for techniques.  They will help - but if it were me, I'd try a tiny 1 mg Prozac reinstatement, just to see if I could get relief.

 

Breathe, you can do this.  

 

Let us know what you decide - and please give the 1 mg 4 days - no bouncing of doses! - and let us know how it goes if you try it.

 

Likewise, if you don't try it, please keep us posted, as well!

[mammaP]

Hi Help, lots of us here have the BP label, I was told that the drugs UNMASKED my bp, they CAUSED IT! I too had mood swings before taking any drugs but had a lot of trauma and issues that were not addressed and I never learned to deal with emotions.  After starting drugs the mood swings were major, cycling between suicidal and euphoric depending on the drug I was fed at the time. Withdrawal was very much like you and swinging between suicidal, elated and agitated.

 

 Doctors are educated by the drug companies, who created the DSM (diagnostic manual for mental illness) the doctors refer to it to see what drugs to prescribe, and the drug companies are very happy to recommend multiple drugs, then more and more experimenting as they all go wrong.  People say not to trust an internet forum, but we are not just one or two people on a crusade, there are THOUSANDS of us here with first hand experience of drug side effects and withdrawal.  

 

I agree that 1mg of prozac could make a difference for you, and relieve at least some of your symptoms, or better still help you get stable again. 

Sorry for my little rant, I've been there and learned that doctors haven't a clue and won't learn until they stop trusting everything the drug companies tell them and listen to their PATIENTS instead. Well done for telling your doctor about SA, he might take a look and learn something. It is a very good start that he is willing to support a 1mg dose of prozac, it is much better when they are on board and again, he might learn something!

[Help777]

Thank you for the replies. I just took 1mg of prozac.

I thought this morning was a window and it's not. I hate what I've become, For myself, for my family. Please let this reinstatment work. I've turned into someone I don't even recognize and I don't like. I don't want to be having this pity party, it is not like me. But the grip of anger and dread and sadness feels like it is swallowing me.

[mammaP]

This is NOT YOU, it is the drugs and withdrawal. It will get better and you will not be like this forever, take each day as it comes and just get through that one, tomorrow will be another day. The days will come and they will go, but they will get better and better. 

[Help777]

I hope you are right.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Keep notes, Help. Track your symptoms throughout the day.  This will help everyone in case more troubleshooting is needed.  I hope the Prozac reinstatement helps, but be sure to give it a week before calling it one way or the other (unless, of course, it makes you feel much worse up front - then stop).  

 

Hugs!!!!

SG

[Help777]

Thank you very much. I have been keeping track on paper both symptoms and severity of symptoms on a graph for 4 weeks. I will keep doing this. Thank you to you all for being there despite my bad choices. You give me hope and a plan.

[Shep]

Help, like many others who have posted on your thread, I also have a bipolar diagnosis, along with a dozen other diagnoses. It's all "code" for iatrogenic damage. 

 

Being off the drugs for over a year now, I can assure you that I never had this illness nor any of the other "marketed" disorders. When you're going through withdrawal, your personality is drug-induced and erratic. Once you're free of the drugs and on the way to healing, there's a "calmness" that you'll feel as the chronic mood cycling decreases and you'll be able to tell who you really are. 

 

Keep up the fight until you're free. It's very much worth it. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[Help777]

Would anyone be willing to talk to me over the phone during this crisis for reassurance and support?

[JanCarol]

Oh grrly there are people who do phone stuff here - let me look!

 

Yes, here are people open to that:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2506-would-you-be-open-to-being-my-phone-friend/

 

I see that GeminiGirl just added her name to that list for Skype - she's an experienced taperer, and also struggling right now.  Can you Skype?  

 

So fingers crossed for your Prozac reinstatement.  Like SG said, keep good notes, they will help you when you need to untangle future knots.

 

How do you feel today?  Have any of the symptoms lifted?

[Help777]

Day 3 of prozac 1mg and I am feeling a small improvement. I will take it!

Thank you to all for your patience, wisdom and crisis plan support.

[scallywag]

Glad you're noticing some relief.  That's good news!

[Help777]

Re: reinstatement...After several hours of feeling more calm and a relief from the intensity of my emotional symptoms I started feeling very wired...full of energy but not a good feeling...haven't been able to sleep most of the night, agitated, angry, restless. In a few hours I will be due for my fourth dose of the prozac reinstatement of 1mg. Should I proceed or be concerned that this is an adverse reaction to reinstatement? I re-read the forum on reinstatement. Thank you, help.

[Help777]

Hard to know if it is another bad wave starting so soon or an adverse reaction to reinstatement.

[Shep]

Hi, Help.

 

I'm sorry you're struggling with the "wired" feeling, but this was only after 3 doses of the reinstatement. As is stated in the Reinstatement thread, it takes at least 4 days for your system to fully register a reinstatement, and as SquirrelyGirl wrote above, it's best to give it a full week.

 

Try to do as much self care as possible. Mindfulness videos, epsom salt baths (if you can tolerate magnesium), and try to find some downtime, as being up all night can make things so much worse.

 

Continue to make notes of your symptoms over the next few days. You're doing a really good job of this, and it will help determine if the reinstatement is working. Please gage your symptoms now against this post:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11809-help777-journal/?p=231077

 

You went through a very scary time of feeling suicidal. Is this better? 

 

[JanCarol]

Breathe.  The first time you took Prozac, you may not remember, but it was like this for me - there were a few weird days of "wiggling finger in brain" stuff until I adjusted.

 

You had quite a few drug changes there, you are asking for a lot from 1 tiny mg of Prozac.  It's the liquid, right?  Remember it was a little weird when you first took it, too.

 

Please be patient, breathe.  Let's find out where you are before you change anything again.  

 

However awful it gets - it will not kill you or damage you at this dose.  You just have to breathe, be patient, and live through "what's next."

 

That's one of my mantras:  "what's next."   It's not as "now" as Mr. Tolle would like, but sometimes it gets me through the day.  Okay.  I'm out of bed.  What's next?  Okay, I've made breakfast.  What's next?  My computer is on, what's next?  My supplements are taken, what's next?  The phone is ringing, what's next?  and before I know it, I've lived through another day.

 

Remember to switch on parasympathetic nervous system by putting your legs up the wall.  Sit as close to the wall as you can, and just swing them up and hold them there.  Relax.  Play with your feet.  Do you like your knees bent or straight?  Feet together or apart?  Make a diamond shape with your legs?  Or straight?  Press your lumbar into the floor?  Or rock your hips gently to arch your lower back?  It's all safe there.  When you're ready to come down (10 minutes is perfect!) hug your knees into your chest and remind yourself:

 

"I can do this!"  (what's next?)

[Help777]

Thank you for your reassurance! It got me through a panic attack this morning. I took the same dose of prozac today and will continue so I can see what's next.

Thank you, both!

[Altostrata]

Help, are these new types of feelings? Please continue to let us know how you're doing.

[JanCarol]

Hey Help - panic attack?  (I hate these "diagnostic" words, they are so vague - I would much rather hear:   "I was afraid to go outside because it felt like my heart was pounding out of my chest and I thought I would faint," or "when I started thinking about how long this would take I started to catastrophize and ruminated that I would feel like this forever."  See the difference between this a "panic attack?"  Can you describe for me in greater detail what you are calling "panic attack"?)

 

Was that before or after your dose of Prozac?  How close or far away?  (like:  "one hour after taking the Prozac, I got breathless and became afraid that the floor would swallow me up and I had to crawl to the couch for safety")

 

The better your descriptions are, the more aware you become, and the better you heal, and the easier it is for us to help you - by identifying how much of your reaction/symptom is physical, emotional, cognitive, etc.

[Help777]

Hi and thank you for your messages.

 

Alto, it felt like a new kind of restlessness I felt after a few days of the reinstatement. However, I've been in such a perpetual state of crisis lately that it is hard to separate out feelings and causes. However, yesterday and today, days 3&4 after reinstatement, have been better. Symptoms at levels 2 and 3 out of 5 in comparison to the 4 and 5's that have consumed the last few weeks. Probably still early days to say if reinstatement is working but I do have some marked relief in the last 2 days. Again, reinstatement or coincidental window, time will tell.

 

Shep, yes, the desperate longing for life to be over is not something I've had in the last few days. I don't even recognize the person that I was/am when I have felt that way lately.

 

Jan, my husband is a counsellor and observed that these crying spells, ocd behaviour and anger outbursts seem like panic attacks. Reflecting on these outbursts it does seem like a panic attack pattern...trigger, fear, overwhelm, out of control, flight or fight, adrenalin with eventual calming down after anywhere from 10 mins to 2 hours. Calling them panic attacks helps me understand what is happening when I spiral down so quickly. Helps me to understand the 4 steps in dealing with anger (shep or brass monkey's contribution?) and how i need to catch it at the start of the spiral instead of letting myself spiral down to the bottom, where it is harder and linger to get back up. I would say that I've experienced a few of these in my life prior to withdrawal but nowhere close to the intensity. It has just been during withdrawal that I have reached the depths of despair that I have, esp in the last month where it has been one continual wave with brief windows. Does that help explain what I meant by this panic? My husband suggested splashing cold water on my face for one minute to break the adrenalin surge. I havent tried it yet. Do others relate? Thank you so much for your continued life-saving help.

 

Today my focus is on calm and quiet with a few intentional social interactions so that I don't lose the world around me too much during the harder days. I can only imagine my husband and kids are breathing a sigh of relief too. It is nice to spend time with them without the horrible emotions flooding my body. Sleep continues to be a challenge as it has been since i stopped effexor, but I did get a handful of hours last night.
Thank you again for your care and help. I wish you well.

[Help777]

A friend of mine in response to me telling her about what I've been going through told me that most husbands would have left me by now. It hurt so much. I am feeling really awful hearing this.

[brassmonkey]

It's telling me that DH is not most husbands and is a real keeper. You're very lucky to have someone like him sticking it out with you. It shows he truly cares and wants to be with you through thick and thin.  Make sure to give him a big hug once in a while and thank him for being there.  One of these days it will all be behind you and the relationship will be stronger than ever because of what you've shared.

[Help777]

Yes, you are right, Brassmonkey. Thank you for steering me away from my tunnel vision. I've always been someone to take personally what someone is saying, care too much about what others think, and get hurt easily. However since wd that has been magnified x100. I will read into someone's comments and stew about it, causing myself pain and suffering from this tunnel vision. I guess it's a form of a neuro emotion. I don't want to be so negative and be thrown into the depths of despair because of what someone thinks, or torture myself by reading into what someone says. My life work I think. But like I said this has been incredibly that much more difficult since wd. Thanks for being there.