Help777: journal

[scallywag]

Hi Help -- There are people who manage on little sleep for months and months.  I wish I could tell you something other than you will likely start to sleep more and more regularly over time.

[Help777]

Thanks, scallywag. It's helpful to be reassured that this will improve with time.

[btdt]

Melatonin has the same effect on me I would not touch it again.  I was reading how you can't sleep yes I skimmed really need to rest but read a bit.  If you can't sleep try to stay still in bed rest has some value if your not sleeping.  I would try some magnesium citrate if you can find it ... I grind it up and take a small amount before bed. 

peace

[Help777]

Hi bdtd,

I jusr received my order of lactium and taurine, after reading about them both on SA. Did you try either and what were your side effects if any? Like me, you seem to be very sensitive to supplements.

Thanks,

help.

[AliG]

Help. I can understand your distress with difficulty sleeping. I had insomnia for a lengthy period and it was difficult to say the least but I'm sleeping normally now, so it can and does improve.

 

If you are going to try these supplements I would start at a low dose and perhaps take just one to start with and see how you go. That way if you have effects you will know which one is causing it. This is particularly important if you are sensitive.

 

I know 4-5 hrs is not ideal , but you are getting some sleep , at least. That's important as well as staying calm.

I had the most success with magnesium but the main element was just time itself.

I hope you have some success .

Ali

[scallywag]

Help - I'm sure if you reread the topics on lactium (milk peptides) and taurine, you'll see posts from other members reporting symptoms they experienced.

[JanCarol]

Hey Help- you asked me in PM about lithium and sleep, thinking that the lithium seemed to be where your sleep started to decay.

 

I have to remind you that the lithium was added when you were already severely destabilised from all the other drug changes. 

 

Your lack of sleep has more to do with antidepressants than it does with lithium.

 

Remember, lithium most likely protects you a little bit from the worst of the withdrawals - cushions the blows.  So think - if your withdrawal is bad now - it could always be worse.

 

The main thing about lithium and sleep (and there is evidenced based study to support this) is that lithium is supposed to help regulate sleep, improve your diurnal / nocturnal cycles.  That's probably why my sleep went severely delayed cycle again after my last dose.  I still take a tiny amount of lithium orotate supplement for cognitive and sleep benefits.  There's a doctorly article here (keeping in mind the author still believes in diagnosis, and drugs, but he aims to reduce the drugs as much as possible using natural factors like darkness, light, sleep, etc.):  http://psycheducation.org/treatment/bipolar-disorder-light-and-darkness/the-biological-clock-light-and-lithium/

 

Now, fully 9 months out from the last lithium dose, my sleep is starting to regulate.  But it seems to have more to do with activity than withdrawal.  I do a lot, I'm getting tired, and going to bed and falling asleep.  It's frustrating, because I don't feel as productive, instead I feel I'm running around like a headless chook.  But when I take inventory - yes, the laundry is getting done, I made it to the gym, I've almost been on time for all my appointments, etc.  I've not been as social (phone calls, meetings, etc.) during this time, so the internet is my main social connection - and I find - I'm just falling asleep at night.  Too tired to keep the crazy hours I used to!

 

You say:

 I know this is all part of wd but after 3 hard months of sleeping 4-5hours a night is taking a toll on me. I can't help but think that irritability, feeling wired and tired and nauseous would improve If I could just sleep.

 

Actually, this is quite good sleep!  As Scally noted, there are quite a few people going on a lot less than that.  One of our mods, Wellness, was operating on intermittent 1 hour snoozes for 6 months.  She might get a few in a day, but she could only ever doze a little bit at a time (never reached full sleep).

 

Let your body sleep whenever it wants.  I suspect you are adding stress to yourself by expecting yourself to sleep at night at certain times, like normal people do.  It may be that, while you are re-regulating, you sleep 3 hours, wake 3 hours, sleep 2 hours, wake 4 hours, whatever.  Don't stress if you are not asleep at night or awake in the daytime.  Just sleep when you do, and let go.  Healing will come.

 

Also - I'm looking at your symptoms and your thread, and I cannot emphasize enough how Omega-3 fish oil is vitally important for healing the brain, soothing the nervous system, easing inflammation, and improving cognitive function.  Take as much as you can stand.  It's that good.  I take 4 large and 4 small capsules daily.  It's really important.

 

I also see that Ali mentioned  Magnesium.  This is another soap box of mine, too!  It relaxes the muscles, and is essential for over 200 enzyme and neurotransmitter cascades in the body, and 80% of Americans are deficient in it.  Please consider these important supplements, before experimenting with Taurine (which may be useless without the Mag anyway, as Mag is needed to uptake Taurine) and Lactium.

 

You've already spent your money, but in order to find out if lactium works, check your response to a glass of warm milk.  If you get a little drowsy, then lactium may be a good choice for you.  Always, start small with supplements and build up.  And only try one supplement at a time!

 

You mention melatonin:

Melatonin at 1.5 mg makes me feel depressed during the day and doesn't seem to help me stay asleep at night.

 

For withdrawal, we recommend tiny tiny amounts only.  0.25 mg, then, when you wake up another 0.25 mg.  It is a sleep trigger, not a sedative.  You want just enough to make you drowse a bit.  It doesn't have to be super accurate like psych drugs - just cut the tablet until you've got crumbs and use those.

 

I have other comments since I last visited, but I've got a lot going on, so I'll come back to my notes in a bit.

 

I hope you see the sun today!  (also important for setting your natural melatonin & sleep cycles!  See:  http://psycheducation.org/treatment/bipolar-disorder-light-and-darkness/)

[JanCarol]

Hey Hope, I've been reading through your thread and made a few notes...

 

The internist feels my following symptoms are the result of lithium and not wd from effexor and prozac:

Slowed heart rate and bp, dizziness, weakness, burning in hands and feet and stomach, nausea and losing weight and insomia. Of course I tried to discusswith him my thoughts in these symptoms being caused by wd but he thought the lithium is the more likely culprit. I hate to make an even slight reduction in lithium, but I am wondering if I need to. I take the risks if kithium seriously. The internist said my bloodwork does not show toxicity of lithium but that this doesn't mean it's not creating problems which could increase. January my bloodwork showed 0.2 lithium level. This week it showed 0.4. No changes to dose and I am mindful to drink lots of water, etc. Any thoughts, lithium experts here?

 

This is because your internist does not recognize the symptoms of withdrawal.

 

It is my experience, and others I've talked with here, that it deadens the peaks and crashes of withdrawal.  If you are nowhere near toxic, leave it be.  It is "unfashionable" in the USA right now, so that is what internist seems concerned about.

 

ALL the symptoms you mention are common symptoms of withdrawal.

 

Check here: 

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's Most Common symptoms of Withdrawal

To compare your symptoms to the more common symptoms of withdrawal.

 

To give you an idea about how much water to drink with lithium - imagine that you lived in one of those magical places on Earth where the water contains lithium naturally.

 

In order to get anywhere near your 300 mg dose of lithium, you would have to drink something like 10 gallons of that lithium water per day. 

 

I always use Mother Nature as a guide - the healing lithium is carried in water - which is needed to prevent kidney malfunction.  It's the same with herbs - the whole plant often mediates the side effects of the "active ingredient."

 

So keep up with plenty of water (I think 10 gallons a day would be excessive, but 3 quarts might be reasonable!) until you are ready to come down on the lithium.

 

Does anyone find social stimulation very upsetting? My limit seems to be one hour of being able to talk to someone or be in a group setting before I become extremely agitated. Then my response is to cry or feel very angry, perhaps due to a flight or fight activation within me from the social activity? I hardly recognize this person I've become. I used to love being with friends. Now it just upsets me too much. Will this get better? Can anyone relate?

 

Oh yeah.  I even hate phone calls.  I feel like I'm chained to the phone, and it's selfish of me, but I get ants in my pants and I need to dance - it's hard for me to listen and sit still and be present with a phone call.  It's better in person, but then I get easily drained - even when it's someone I want to see!

 

I used to "crash" for 3 days after any social event, even if it was dear friends who I really wanted to see and spend time with!

 

It gets better, I might sleep a little extra the day after a big social event, but it no longer takes me down for the count.

 

In other words stable dose = stability over time doesn't seem to be happening for me. 

 

Changing your dose every time you have a wave will end up extending your process significantly.

 

Alto said:

When we say give it time to stabilize, we're talking months, not days.

 

That is because you are measuring your progress in days, not in weeks, months and years.  I know that's awful news, when you are in crisis, but look to the horizon.

 

When you are hiking, and you look only at your feet, your feet get heavy, and sore, and it makes matters worse.  You need to look up - at the horizon, at the scenery and be mindful.  Get lost in that mindfulness and you can forget about your feet until you can rest them again!

 

You are forgetting that you had tons of cold switches, cold turkeys, on-and-off drugs and got seriously destabilised.  Once you have destabilised and gone into full-blown withdrawal, that extends your healing time, and makes you so much more sensitive along the way.

 

Be patient with yourself.  Be kind to yourself.  Allow yourself the space and time - the dark rooms, the rest, the quiet - that you need to heal.  Putting pressure on yourself will only do that - put pressure on you.  Let go of the calendar, the clock, and let go of anything which fires your stress system.  Seek things in your life which are calming, stabilising.

 

In order to go off psychiatric drugs, you must face the fact that you went on them for a reason.  You may need to face that reason in order to get off them again.  Additionally, when you remove a thing like this from your life, you must replace it with other things - like Non Drug techniques, hobbies, distractions, therapy, supportive physical, emotional, and mental practice.

 

Sorry, one more thought. I haven't tried reinstating a few beads of Effexor.

 

Please, let this idea go. 

 

First, from Drugs.com:

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

Major

fluoxetine  venlafaxine

Applies to: Prozac (fluoxetine), Effexor (venlafaxine)

Using FLUoxetine together with venlafaxine can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

From <https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2296-1524,1115-648>

 

Granted, your doses are very very low - but this tells you that they are acting on the same receptors, the same systems.  It's been so long.

 

Second - at low doses, Effexor is an SSRI, like Prozac.

 

To add it in only complicates the mix - if 1.5 mg of Prozac was activating, overstimulating and gave you symptoms of hypomania, what do you think adding Effexor (especially with that major interaction?) would do? 

 

 I wish I could watch a movie of my brain to see all the receptors and neurotransmitters sorting themselves out! 

 

Here's a video of the Rubik's Cube image of healing: 

Healing from Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery (by Toxic Antidepressants)

 

And here's something I wrote about comparing it to road works.  You know how it seems like the construction crew has been working on that road forever, and it seems like it will never be normal again?  And you know the lanes are blocked or things are dug up, but what are they doing?

 

I really like Bubble's phrase:  "Brain is closed down for repairs."  I'd like to expand on that a bit - parts of your brain are closed down.  Imagine very complicated road works with about 25 intersections coming together.  This week, the traffic lights are shut down, and you need a cop to manage the intersection.  When that is repaired, well, maybe they need to re-do the shoulders, so they can divert traffic onto them for later when the lanes are being repaired.  Then there's the repairing of the lanes - it doesn't all happen at once.  Sometimes they need to rip up the old tarmac, change all the drainage routes, relocate the services for electricity and plumbing, get down to the foundation, and re-grade it, lay new gravel, then steel rebar, pouring concrete foundation, then laying the asphalt.  Sometimes you will go for 5 months, and the road is still closed, but you can't see what they are doing to it!  Each phase requires time to set and dry.  Then you can paint the lines on it, and go to another part of the intersection - perhaps one of the other incoming roads needs the same treatment.  Perhaps there are exit ramps and roundabouts and flyover lanes that need repair.  Each of which takes time.

 

Now imagine the millions of networks in your brain healing - they don't just, "heal" and be done.  It's a construction process, like Bubble was saying.  Road works for the brain. 

 

Just my way of saying, be patient with yourself.  It might be the tarmac this week - but the lines aren't on the road and you're disoriented.  Maybe the signals are crossed at the intersections, or the signs are removed or there are detours.  Be gentle with yourself, be patient with yourself.  It's a complex process, and the gentler you are, the more easily you will heal.  It does no good to shake your fist and yell at the construction guys while they are doing their work!  So just wave (lol, wave!) at the worker, declare to yourself, "This is yet another symptom of withdrawal," and drive carefully past the obstacle.

 

I have a few more, older notes - I'll be back in a bit with them.

[peng]

If I may add a bit about worrying about loss of sleep, here.

 

I am 71 now, but when I was really ill with depression/acute anxiety/insomnia in periods during my 30s, I used to worry about the insomnia a lot.  This was because I was holding down a quite arduous job and we were raising children at that time, too.

 

Night after night I was "early waking" and felt I would surely not cope and would either lose my job, or would die of exhaustion.

 

Needless to say, neither happened.

 

I read somewhere at that time that you will not die of having only a few hours sleep at night, and that UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher claimed to have only 5 hours of sleep a night, too.  I hated the smugness of both those "facts", but if I had known how true, even the first one was, at least for me, I would have had a more relaxed attitude about loss of sleep.  

 

I hope this helps those of you struggling with this problem.  Remember, too, that because of your negative frame of mind late at night when you are at your lowest, the struggle against insomnia feels as bad as can be.

 

Best wishes. Ox

[JanCarol]

Hi Help - 

 

Now I'd like to share a bit more of the Non Drug Techniques that we all rely on so much for our survival.

 

Jan, my husband is a counsellor and observed that these crying spells, ocd behaviour and anger outbursts seem like panic attacks. Reflecting on these outbursts it does seem like a panic attack pattern...trigger, fear, overwhelm, out of control, flight or fight, adrenalin with eventual calming down after anywhere from 10 mins to 2 hours. Calling them panic attacks helps me understand what is happening when I spiral down so quickly.

 

"Panic Attack" and "Anxiety" are diagnosis words, and really aren't very descriptive.

 

Claire Weekes emphasizes how important it is to separate the physical feeling from the emotions and thoughts accompanying that feeling.  She, like me, doesn't call it "panic attack" (it sounds so powerless) instead choosing to call it "dealing with a nervous condition"

Claire Weekes - Self Help for your Nerves

So no, I got that your heart races, but that you still feel like it is an "attack" that is "triggered" by something outside of your control.  When really, it is a reaction, a response - even a survival mechanism - that you have learned in order to become who you are today.  Start by taking the "classic pattern" if you must:  what was the trigger?  What fear did you then experience?  Did you want to fight? Or flight? 

 

Example:  The door slammed. I jumped as my nerves fired.  I was afraid my husband was mad at me, and that I had done something to damage the relationship.  I wanted to become very small and disappear, and wanted to run away from whatever it was I was sure he wanted to confront me with.

When you break it down like this, and then you find out that your husband had an armload of groceries, and the door slammed by accident, and the "trigger," had nothing to do with your fear - it begins to deconstruct the "classic pattern" of a helpless "attack."

 

Calling them "panic attacks" honestly, removes your power to deal with them.

 

What do you think about this?

I hope you see the Sun today!

[Help777]

 

 

quote name="peng" post="248844" timestamp="1474727171"]If I may add a bit about worrying about loss of sleep, here.

 

I am 71 now, but when I was really ill with depression/acute anxiety/insomnia in periods during my 30s, I used to worry about the insomnia a lot.  This was because I was holding down a quite arduous job and we were raising children at that time, too.

 

Night after night I was "early waking" and felt I would surely not cope and would either lose my job, or would die of exhaustion.

 

Needless to say, neither happened.

 

I read somewhere at that time that you will not die of having only a few hours sleep at night, and that UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher claimed to have only 5 hours of sleep a night, too.  I hated the smugness of both those "facts", but if I had known how true, even the first one was, at least for me, I would have had a more relaxed attitude about loss of sleep.  

 

I hope this helps those of you struggling with this problem.  Remember, too, that because of your negative frame of mind late at night when you are at your lowest, the struggle against insomnia feels as bad as can be.

 

Best wishes. Ox

 

Thank you, Peng!! That reasurrance helps a lot!!

Glad you are here.

Help

[Help777]

Hi Help - 

 

Now I'd like to share a bit more of the Non Drug Techniques that we all rely on so much for our survival.

 

 

Jan, my husband is a counsellor and observed that these crying spells, ocd behaviour and anger outbursts seem like panic attacks. Reflecting on these outbursts it does seem like a panic attack pattern...trigger, fear, overwhelm, out of control, flight or fight, adrenalin with eventual calming down after anywhere from 10 mins to 2 hours. Calling them panic attacks helps me understand what is happening when I spiral down so quickly.

 

 

"Panic Attack" and "Anxiety" are diagnosis words, and really aren't very descriptive.

 

Claire Weekes emphasizes how important it is to separate the physical feeling from the emotions and thoughts accompanying that feeling.  She, like me, doesn't call it "panic attack" (it sounds so powerless) instead choosing to call it "dealing with a nervous condition"Claire Weekes - Self Help for your Nerves

 

So no, I got that your heart races, but that you still feel like it is an "attack" that is "triggered" by something outside of your control.  When really, it is a reaction, a response - even a survival mechanism - that you have learned in order to become who you are today.  Start by taking the "classic pattern" if you must:  what was the trigger?  What fear did you then experience?  Did you want to fight? Or flight? 

 

Example:  The door slammed. I jumped as my nerves fired.  I was afraid my husband was mad at me, and that I had done something to damage the relationship.  I wanted to become very small and disappear, and wanted to run away from whatever it was I was sure he wanted to confront me with.

When you break it down like this, and then you find out that your husband had an armload of groceries, and the door slammed by accident, and the "trigger," had nothing to do with your fear - it begins to deconstruct the "classic pattern" of a helpless "attack."

 

Calling them "panic attacks" honestly, removes your power to deal with them.

 

What do you think about this?

I hope you see the Sun today!

Jan,

Thank you so very much for taking the time to write back to me with all of your thoughts. I have read them about 5 times through and will continue to do so as what you are saying makes sense.

Instead of waiting for this panic feeling to subside I have to learn how to prevent it and manage it. I was stuck in the mindset of feeling like this was all happening to me, leaving me powerless to affect the outcome. I now know that I can learn how to let this surge of flight or fight pass. Easier said than done sometimes but maybe over time it gets easier. A smaller version of this is what led me to effexor. The thought of something numbing my sensitivity was appealing. I thought it would help me cope with my emotions and the seemingly harsh challenges of life. Maybe effexor accomplished this for awhile but then it definitely created more problems. I hope that with time And farther away from withdrawal that I won't be soooo reactive, with time and my efforts to manage my responses, attributing to this outcome. Right now it feels like my life's work just to stay calm and centered and not become overwhelmed and feel so vulnerable. I am starting a mindfulness group this week for 8 weeks led by a counsellor. I will watch claire's link again that you sent.

I can tell that I am experiencing gradual improvement and stability since I stopped effexor 4 months ago. Some days not as fast as I want but .i do believe I have closed the door on the worst of it.

It helps to hear your experience and everyone's wisdom on this board. What would I do without SA!

Thanks again.

Help

[Help777]

I know everyone is different but how long did your insomnia last for after withdrawing? Alto and others, I would love to hear time spans you experienced. Thank you.

[Help777]

Can I ask for some advice on when I should reduce my 1mg of prozac? I reinstated 1mg in June witha few small adjustments since then. I have windows lasting anywhere from a few hours to 3 weeks. My sleep is gradually getting better and have been enjoying 6 hours lately. When should I drop 10 percent?

With many thanks,

Help.

[KarenB]

Glad to hear things are improving somewhat.  I'd keep your dose steady for a bit longer, because the more stabilised you get the better you'll cope when you do begin tapering again.  Let yourself have a few months of feeling relatively good.  Sleep especially - that makes a big difference.  You must be loving those 6 hours! 

 

I just finished an 8 month hold, and am now finding the tapering almost ridiculously easy. 

 

Karen

[herewego]

Glad to hear things are improving somewhat.  I'd keep your dose steady for a bit longer, because the more stabilised you get the better you'll cope when you do begin tapering again.  Let yourself have a few months of feeling relatively good.  Sleep especially - that makes a big difference.  You must be loving those 6 hours! 

 

I just finished an 8 month hold, and am now finding the tapering almost ridiculously easy. 

 

Karen

That is so good to hear that a hold can make such a difference when starting to taper again!

[Help777]

Thank you, Karen. I will hold longer. Can I ask you, do you still experience waves? Or depression?

Or has stability been constant lately? You must be thrilled to not be having symptoms with your taper now!

Help

[KarenB]

Depression isn't a problem anymore.  It must be a year or so since that's been an issue for me.  I do get very occasional waves, but they are extremely light, and almost unnoticeable.  Working out the taper-rate that suits me has been key.  I've been slowly increasing my rate, and just yesterday found where the line is for myself .  So I had two days of feeling extra tired, plus some crazy neuro-emotions yesterday, but today things seem to be settling.  Now I know where my limit is. 

 

It seems as long as I stick to that rate, then I'm fairly stable. 

[Help777]

Depression isn't a problem anymore.  It must be a year or so since that's been an issue for me.  I do get very occasional waves, but they are extremely light, and almost unnoticeable.  Working out the taper-rate that suits me has been key.  I've been slowly increasing my rate, and just yesterday found where the line is for myself .  So I had two days of feeling extra tired, plus some crazy neuro-emotions yesterday, but today things seem to be settling.  Now I know where my limit is. 

 

It seems as long as I stick to that rate, then I'm fairly stable.

 

Thank you, Karen. It is so uplifting to hear of your success.

[Help777]

Please advise...i have an upper scope scheduled on friday for the burning ive had in my abdomen. Strict diet changes have lessened the pain but have not gotten rid of it. I am really scared about having a paradoxical reaction to the fentanyl thye are going to give me to sedate me, since my nervous system is so sensitized right now from the wd. I stopped effexor in may but am still on 1mg prozac. Also taking 200 mg lithium. Any thoughts, advice on something else i can ask the doctor about that would be safer?

Thank you.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Help. Do you mean colonoscopy? If so, please use search to see our discussions about the drugs used for this.

 

If you mean upper GI endoscopy, I looked into this myself. They do this without anesthesia in the UK (people hate it) but in the US, anesthesia is required.

 

I spoke to a gastroenterologist who agreed to use propofol, which is very short-acting and relatively safe for those of us with sensitized nervous systems. (I never had the procedure done, my GI problem resolved itself.)

[Help777]

Hi Alto,

The procedure is a scope down my esophagus to view my stomach. They do not use a general for this. They said they will spray my throat to numb it and then give me fentanyl to mildly sedate me. I will ask him if he can use propofol in place of the fentanyl. Either that or try and do it without sedation.

I have searched for safe antibiotics. Are there one or two you would recommend as safer for our sensitive systems, in case he finds something during the scope that requires antiobiotics?

Thank you ever so much for your help.

[Help777]

Hi,

My scope was rescheduled because I came down with the flu. Last night after testing I learned it is pnemonia. They tried to prescribe a z drug but i was so scared about side affects due to my wd i asked for amoxicillin so i started that this morning. Feeling weepy along with the pain of the pnemonia and wonder if illness intensifies wd symptoms.

[Help777]

I've had a return of the insomnia. I don't think it ever really went away but I had some improvement over the last few weeks to a month. Now, in the last week it has returned worse than before. I am only sleeping a few hours esch night. I will doze off and then awake with a jolt of agitation and crying. I honestly wonder if it's the withdrawal or if it's an underlying psychiatric condition because my mood has definitely been worse in the last week as well in terms of the depression. I am practicing mindfulness exercises many times a day just to try and cope through the day. I feel so hopeless and discouraged right now. The burning in my abdomen has been awful as well since i tried eating a bit of lasagna a few nights ago. Why is this happening again? I thought the sleep was improving. Feeling super discouraged right now. Anyone there?

[Help777]

I spend a lot of time lately crying or trying to stop from crying, day or night. Not sure if this is causing insomnia or if the insomnia comes first. Sounds are magnified times 100. Everything feels painful. I thought i was making progress.

[scallywag]

I'm sorry that things have taken a turn for the worse. I hope it's "only" a wave and that it passes quickly.

[Help777]

Scallywag, do you experience waves? Do they get shorter over time?

[scallywag]

I've been fortunate that I started a 10% taper before I got too far along into withdrawal symptoms.  I haven't really had waves since I stabilized back to a daily dose from skipping days.

[Help777]

I didn't think my insomnia would return in a wave. I thought recovery from insomnia meant my body was passed that part.

[scallywag]

Insomnia can come in waves and then go, just like any other withdrawal symptom.

[Help777]

My decreased sleep and handful of bad days have turned into what is now the worst wave i have ever had. I am six months out after a 8 month withdrawal. This is worse than what i've experienced yet. I am scared and angry and cannot stop crying. I am shaking, my nerves feel incredibly sensitized that every movement, noise, light, interaction is painful. I don't know what to do. How can I keep going like this without an end in sight? Does this pattern make sense to anyone else? Is there something else I should be considering? Please help.

[scallywag]

There is an end to this. The person in the wave -- you -- can't see it. Please trust that this wave will be in the past; a period of lighter or no symptoms will come.

[Help777]

Hi there,

I haven't posted in awhile. I have been healing, for sure! I have had a wave once every 2 months for the last handful of months. Pales in comparison to the h3ll I was experiencing last summer and fall. I wanted to touch base about withdrawing from my remaining liquid prozac, that I used to bridge my effexor taper. I have remained on about 2 mg of liquid prozac for the last several months. Since Inhave seen imorovement i thought i would reduce it. I went from 0.3 ml to 0.25ml. Every 1 ml has 4mg prozac. So my drop was very small. However, about a week or so after the drop i experienced a wave that was worse...lack of sleep, overwhelmed, crying, anger. Could this small of a drop really affect me? I find it hard to believe. I wanted to hear your knowledgeable input and thoughts on this. And how i should move forward with tapering the remaining 0.25ml. I also still am taking the 150 mg lithium, also introduced over a year ago to help me bridge my effexor taper. With many thanks.

[KarenB]

Firstly, well done on your healing over the last few months! 

 

Secondly, what you're experiencing now is very normal for the lower end of a taper.  People usually have to reduce by smaller drops and maybe longer holds in between as well.  Even though your drop seemed small, it was actually larger than 10%.  From here you can opt to wait it out (especially if it seems that things are improving) or pop back up a little, maybe to 0.27 (if things do not appear to be settling any). 

 

Either way, a decent hold before your next cut will be important.  And then be careful to go by 10% or less to avoid worsening symptoms. 

[Help777]

Hi there,

I would like to ask for some feedback amd encouragement.  I finished my prozac taper last month.  I am starting to slowly taper the lithium.  While my present symptoms pale in comparison to a few years ago, I continue to have waves of not sleeping well.  What concerns me most is this low level depression I have.  I don’t have zest for life.  I am not crying constantly like I did a few years ago when I started my effexor taper, but I still cry frequently .  I know that my thinking is negative, i feel everything strongly and I take everything personally.  This must contribute to my symptoms.  But with therapy snd mindfulness I still can’t seem to break out of this.  Is this low affect just me or is it still the withdrawal processs?  When can I look forward to feeling well again?  Really well?  I miss having an excitement for life.

thank you.  

[Help777]

I should also add I seem to have very little resilience to stress of any kind.  Even stimulation from too much noise, people, work.