LisaM271970 Introduction

[LisaM271970]

I've been on anti-depressants for 18 years. Currently on 60 mg of Cymbalta. 5 years ago, tried to taper off Cymbalta, it was a disaster. I had resigned to take it forever since I was afraid to stop and the withdrawal and my doctor convinced me I need it. I've worked up to trying again and realize that the taper must be much more gradual and prolonged.  I was just about to push purchase on $200+ of supplements to help start my taper when I found this website. I'm planning on seeing my doctor on the 19th to let him know I'm starting this taper off of Cymbalta, I'm not expecting him to be supportive of this.  My plan is the decrease by 5% every time last decrease feels ok.  I admit that in the end I may need an anti-depressant but it won't be this one.

Edited July 19, 2016 by scallywag
tags added

[nz11]

Welcome Lisa so glad you found sa.

Many people here have been on these drugs for many years too, held hostage to a doctor  who simply has maintained a drug dependancy and clueless as to what they are doing and peddling. But with slow tapering they are managing to have a life and get their life back and im sure you can too.

 

Dont buy into the 'tailoring hypothesis'- 'i may need a different antidepressant', you are doing erroneous doctor speak.

Kirsch's research found  there are no differences between them.

 

"If the differences between antidepressant and placebo are small. The differences between one antidepressant and another are virtually non-existent." 

'The Emperor's new drugs' Kirsch p95

 

Your 5% taper (of the previous dose  until stable waiting at least a month? ) idea sounds very wise.

Good luck with the  consultation.

 

If you havent already read this it could be insightful

Tips for tapering off Cymbalta (duloxetine)

 

Are you able to do a drug sig to help the mods.

 

Oh yeah one more thing what is critical in getting off these drugs well is not the supplements but the taper.

There is a great info here about supplements recommendations.

 

You might like to read about  fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivinganti...acids-fish-oil/
http://survivinganti...hannel-blocker/

 

nz11

[LisaM271970]

Thank you so much for the reply and the info.  I will think back on the different meds and dosages and work out a signature.  Again thank you...I am feeling hopeful

[ChessieCat]

Hi Lisa and welcome to SA,

 

Really pleased that you have found this site.  The members are supportive and encouraging and there is a wealth of excellent information here.  To search this site it is best to use a search engine and type in survivingantidepressants.org + topic

 

Before you see your doctor it is a good idea to do some reading so that you are informed and know how to talk to your doctor.

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Symptoms Checklist

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

This is by Irving Kirsch who NZ mentioned above:

 

Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect by Irving Kirsch (link to full article)

Abstract:

Antidepressants are supposed to work by fixing a chemical imbalance, specifically, a lack of serotonin in the brain.  Indeed, their supposed effectiveness is the primary evidence for the chemical imbalance theory.  But analyses of the published data and the unpublished data that were hidden by drug companies reveals that most (if not all) of the benefits are due to the placebo effect.  Some antidepressants increase serotonin levels, some decrease it, and some have no effect at all on serotonin.  Nevertheless, they all show the same therapeutic benefit.  Even the small statistical difference between antidepressants and placebos may be an enhanced placebo effect, due to the fact that most patients and doctors in clinical trials successfully break blind.  The serotonin theory is as close as any theory in the history of science to having been proved wrong.  Instead of curing depression, popular antidepressants may induce a biological vulnerability making people more likely to become depressed in the future.

Excerpt:

How Did These Drugs Get Approved?
....
The FDA requires two adequately conducted clinical trials showing a significant difference between drug and placebo.  But there is a loophole:  there is no limit to the number of trials that can be conducted in search of these two significant trials.  Trials showing negative results simply do not count.  Furthermore, the clinical significance of the findings is not considered.  All that matters is that the results are statistically significant.
....
(NB:  emphasis in abstract and excerpt are mine)

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

This Intro/Update topic is where you ask questions about your own situation and where you can journal your progress.  It's also a good idea to keep your signature updated as you taper with date, drug and dose so that it can be seen at a glance.  Also as you taper keep notes on paper of your symptoms so that if issues arise you can give the details and the mods can assess the situation and offer suggestions.

[purcy51]

Hi Lisa! And welcome SA. I too am trying to taper off cymbalta and have had the same disastrous experiences with it in the past. Just recently in fact, while trying to switch to another SSRI. I found this site at just the right time. As did you. Something that has helped me through this process is to consider this whole experience an awakening. A coming BACK to life, if you will. I reinstated cymbalta at a lower dose, and it is amazing the feelings I'm having again. Emotions I haven't experienced in a long time. It is equal parts exhilarating and overwhelming, I won't lie. I was a zombie before, when I was at the higher dose. I now realize just how much the drugs blunted my emotions. It is a learning process, or relearning process really, but one I am glad to be going through. You will get better, your body just needs time to adjust. Dr. Glenmullens' checklist, that Chessie provided a link to above, is great to have and do daily. It keeps things in perspective and helps to provide an overview about how you are doing day-to-day. I highly reccommend it!

 

Welcome!

[LisaM271970]

^{ChessieCat and purcy51 - THANK YOU BOTH!}

[LisaM271970]

Ordered and received a 20g scale this week.  Just finished preparing 14 pills for my 1st 5% reduction.  It was a lot more difficult than I thought it would be but got it done.  Surprisingly, the starting weight of the 60 mg capsules varies greatly.  All I can do is my best to get these reductions right but I figure it will be just as accurate as what Eli Lilly is putting out lol.  I figure it will take until August 2017 to be done completely and that's only if all goes well at 5% (from original) tapers every two weeks.  My husband took the time to listen and understand what I am trying to do and is being very supportive (even helped me with the frustration of reworking the capsules this morning).  Tomorrow is day 1 of the journey off this crap.

[AliG]

Hi Lisa.   Welcome.   It seems that you did find us at the right time .  You sound determined to get off the drugs. That is the main thing , right now.

 

Were you having symptoms?    What is your reason for wanting off ?

 

C.C has given you all the pertinent links . Have a read and see what you think , particularly the ones about talking to your Doctor. You only need him , for your script. You seem to have a balanced/ realistic outlook , on the time frame , for this.

I think that attitude , will serve you well . Good luck , with Day 1.  Let us know how you go .  

Ali

[LisaM271970]

Hi Ali,

 

When I read through the possible side-effects of Cymbalta, I believe I have quite a few.  Most notably, tension, everywhere, especially my neck, jaw and hands.  I'm grinding my teeth.  I have to concentrate in order to relax or else my "natural state" is tense...and irritable.  Plus, I worry about the long term effects. 

 

I decided last week that I'm not even going to tell my doctor what I'm doing with the tapering.  I will monitor myself carefully.

 

Thanks so much for your post!

 

Lisa

[LisaM271970]

Was feeling pretty good, until today.  No brain zaps or anything severe but feeling down, confused, unable to focus and very irritable.  Trying to remember that it's because of withdrawal, not depression, and that "this too shall pass".  I'm not giving up.  My plan was to taper again on Sunday but I will stay where I'm at until this levels out.  For the record..this is bs, still have a hard time wrapping my head around that this is so easily prescribed and the majority of Dr's know nothing about the withdrawal.

[purcy51]

Was feeling pretty good, until today.  No brain zaps or anything severe but feeling down, confused, unable to focus and very irritable.  Trying to remember that it's because of withdrawal, not depression, and that "this too shall pass".  I'm not giving up.  My plan was to taper again on Sunday but I will stay where I'm at until this levels out.  For the record..this is bs, still have a hard time wrapping my head around that this is so easily prescribed and the majority of Dr's know nothing about the withdrawal.

Hi Lisa,

I know how you are feeling, I experienced it as well for a bit after I reinstated cymbalta at 20mg. I was taking 60mg prior to that. I still get waves of that irritability/feeloing down but it is passing much quicker now. I tell you this to give you hope. It will get better! I think it is a good idea on holding where you are until you are stable. No need to rush!

[LisaM271970]

 

Was feeling pretty good, until today.  No brain zaps or anything severe but feeling down, confused, unable to focus and very irritable.  Trying to remember that it's because of withdrawal, not depression, and that "this too shall pass".  I'm not giving up.  My plan was to taper again on Sunday but I will stay where I'm at until this levels out.  For the record..this is bs, still have a hard time wrapping my head around that this is so easily prescribed and the majority of Dr's know nothing about the withdrawal.

Hi Lisa,

I know how you are feeling, I experienced it as well for a bit after I reinstated cymbalta at 20mg. I was taking 60mg prior to that. I still get waves of that irritability/feeloing down but it is passing much quicker now. I tell you this to give you hope. It will get better! I think it is a good idea on holding where you are until you are stable. No need to rush!

 

Thanks purcy51, after writing my post I took an Omega and Vitamin E and went for a walk.  I already feel better.  Thanks for the encouragement!

[LisaM271970]

Feeling good, decided to start 2nd reduction. (5%, now at 54 g)  Getting to be a pro with the scale - open capsule, pour out some granules, reweigh, add or lose more granules until capsule/granule weight is good to three decimal places, ex. 0.386.  Did 14 capsules (two weeks worth) in less than 15 minutes.  I know I'm experiencing withdrawal symptoms (some good, some bad) but very minor,especially in comparison to five years ago when I tapered way too quickly (one month, this taper will take over a year).

[nz11]

Hi Lisa,

Well done on having such a great taper plan from the get go.

You might like to consider tweaking it a little. It appears you are intending to drop by  5% of the original (60mg) dose each time.

Were you aware that this site recommends you drop by % of the previous dose (this is informed by the SERT study)...each successive dose drop then gets smaller. (about 6 yrs of tapering to get to 1mg at this rate waiting 4 weeks between drops).

Heres the thing you may be fine for a while doing what you are doing but it may come back to bite you later on down the track as the two methods start to diverge from each other.

At this early stage of the game you say you are already having withdrawal symptoms 'some bad' as such maybe consider holding for the 4 weeks minimum  and do the 5% of original dose. You are already onto it though by deciding to hold for longer.

There is no race here.

After 18 yrs use and a height of 60 mg, expecting to get off with 1-2 yr taper may be rushing it.

[KarenB]

Hello Lisa,

 

Just popping in to say welcome as I hadn't been to you thread yet.

 

Glad to see things are going well for you this time round.  That's an amazing speed you have with weighing.  I sometimes have a good run of say half an hour for 14 pills, but sometimes it's awful and takes double that.  Lately when it's going well I just keep weighing more, since I'm on a roll, and if it's not working out well, I only do a few. 

 

Wishing you well,

Karen

 

EDIT:  Good catch NZ

[nz11]

 

At this early stage of the game you say you are already having withdrawal symptoms 'some bad' as such maybe consider holding for the 4 weeks minimum  and do the 5% of original dose. You are already onto it though by deciding to hold for longer.

 

correction....oops i meant to say previous dose not original dose....oh boy!

I'm confusing myself now ...easily done.

apologies.

I thought there was something fishy in that post!

 

Edit: thanks KarenB

[LisaM271970]

Started my third taper last Sunday.  So far so good.  Each time I feel mild manageable withdrawal symptoms the first week and then things level out the next.  I'm eating a HFLC diet and treating myself right with supplements, sleep, water, walking and sunshine which I'm sure is helping.  "All the feelings" are starting to come back, as in, I think I'm coming back to myself - what an amazing feeling.  I understand this is going to be a roller coaster ride but so hopeful that I'll be off of this stuff in a year.

[LisaM271970]

Fourth Taper started on Sunday.  Major observation - Over the last few years, I have broken two fillings from grinding my teeth during the day when I'm not wearing a bite guard for sleeping.  I am no longer grinding my teeth.  The changes so far have been amazing - this is huge.

[LisaM271970]

^{7th taper last Sunday, now at 34.2 mg - almost halfway there.  Still feeling great, thinking this might actually work, also thinking that if I don't feel different the Cymbalta probably wasn't "helping" me.  I'm going to take a "break" for the next three weeks and maintain this dose.  Still trying to follow a ketogenic diet which I believe is also helping.  Mental clarity and energy are really good.}

[scallywag]

Hi Lisa!  Thanks for the update. It's great to hear that your taper is going well and that you're using your symptoms to guide your dose cuts rather than a calendar.