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Mattacmotoring: Trying to taper off paxil. Need help.


Mattacmotoring

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It was in Fresh's post # 28 but I gave you the direct link.  If you go to the page link Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Symptoms Checklist there is an Excel MONTHLY spreadsheet you can use, or you can download the PDF MONTHLY checklists (2 kinds Glenmullen's symptoms plus blank for your own individual ones).

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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day 4 15mg today was an ok day. Took half of the dose along with usual supplements. Immediately start getting anxiety. I had to take klonopin to calm down. It seems like whenever I take the paxil I get anxiety. I was ok after that and actually managed to get out of the house. I took my dog to the park and it was actually pretty relaxing. I did have some trouble concentrating while driving still but overall I feel better. I have been getting hot though for some reason. I took my temperature which was 97.3f which is actually below the normal temperature. Its not hot flashes but its consistently hot. I thought it might be because it was around 80f today but even at night I still feel hot. Is this something Thats normal while taking ad? Or during withdrawal?

 

Hi, Matt. Just wanted to touch base with you regarding supplements. Some people are able to use supplements during this and some people find they rev up symptoms. 

 

Have you added anything new besides the magnesium and multi-vitamin you mentioned in a previous post? From the reactions you've had with short-term use, it's possible you may also be more sensitive to supplements, so extra caution is advised. Please research as much as you can. You may be someone who benefits more by getting your vitamins and amino acids directly from food.

 

While it's more likely that the Paxil is causing your symptoms, there's a lot of research connecting gut health with issues such as anxiety and depression, so perhaps a change in diet will help set you up for greater success. 

 

Here's an article from the Beyond Meds website, which is a site with a goldmine of information. The article contains links which you may find helpful, too: 

 

https://beyondmeds.com/2016/01/12/what-about-supplements/

 

We're all cheering you on. Seeing a short term user succeed and escape the psychiatric drug trap is always great. 

 

P.S. Please be careful with your Klonopin use. I know others have mentioned this, but dependency can start in only a couple week's use and it can turn paradoxical. Any non-drug coping skills you can use will serve you now and in the future. 

 

 

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Hey Shep. Thanks for the info. My supplements are still the same. Its a multivitamin, another vitamin with calcium, magnesium and zinc, and also vitamin c throughout the day. I figured I might have adrenal fatigue and that is supposed to help. As for the diet changes Ive been eating more of a pale diet lately. Lots of veggies, nuts, fish and stuff. So Idk if thats helping. Also Idk what to do about my dose today. I haven't taken it yet but I have been breaking them in half. I might have to purchase a pill cutter because I cant really get an accurate consistent dosage. The pills arent scored they're just round and convex which makes them harder to break. So should I just quarter it which would mean im taking 7.5mg or is that too big of a drop. Any suggestions would be appreciated?

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi, Matt.

 

From the symptoms you're having, I think a another 50% drop is way too big and may cause problem down the road. Sometimes antidepressant withdrawal doesn't even manifest for several months after coming off, and with your sensitivity, I would be cautious.

 

Although you really do need to get off quickly after only 3 weeks use, Fresh mentioned decreasing by 5 mg here - 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11852-mattacmotoring-trying-to-taper-off-paxil-need-help/?p=219934

 

Some people use a jeweler's scale and others do liquid tapers to get a more accurate read, but I would at least get a pill cutter because if you do decide to do the direct cut method from 30 mg tablets, you may need to cut the tablets into 8 parts, giving you 3.75 mg for each part.

 

Taking three of the 3.75 mg pieces = 11.25 mg, which is a 25% drop from the 15 mg where you're at now. That may be a more tolerable option than another 50% drop. 

 

I'm hoping a moderator will weigh in, but this sounds like an appropriate plan for your short term use. 

 

 

 

 

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Wow. Holy **** this is bad. I usually take my dose around 9 but I decided to eat and then go to the store to buy a pill cutter. My skin feels like its burning up, Depersonalization is so bad, im super dizzy and lightheaded can barely focus and my anxiety is really bad. Ive heard that the half life for paxil is shirt and that even if you wait a couple hours to take your meds you have withdrawal but this is ridiculous. **** that doctor and myself for agreeing to this.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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My hands are shaking so bad its hard to even cut the pills. It feels like I have Parkinson's.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Matt, please calm down. Go ahead and take your dose. Find some comforting music or take a hot bath with epsom salts, if you don't have any sensitivity to magnesium.

 

This is going to be an uncomfortable ride for awhile. But if you can find ways of calming yourself down, it will go much easier for you. 

 

With a pre-condition of OCD and anxiety, you may be more naturally inclined to react strongly, so this is good training for learning the non-drug ways of coping.

 

You're going to be okay. Keep telling yourself that because it's coming from someone who survived coming off 6 drugs after 30 years of use. Trust me, you WILL be well again. This isn't permanent. 

 

This is the first guided meditation that a friend gave me on one of the benzo boards and it really helped me out when I was in full panic mode from benzo withdrawal, so I'm passing it on to you:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZaCnyMN-Zw

 

Breathe deep and slow from your belly, listen to the video, close your eyes, and try to reach a place of calmness. 

 

 

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Should I take 15mg or the drop down dose. I think its mostly because I didnt take it at my regular time.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Perhaps it may be best to take the full dose today and try tomorrow at the regularly scheduled time. 

 

Please check in with the moderators in the meantime. And let us know how you do. 

 

 

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My regular dose as in 15mg or the prescribed dose. Thanks so much Shep. You've been really helpful and I feel so sorry for you and the rest of the others who have to experience this now that I am firsthand. Idk I also feel like I have to check my thyroid as well again even though the last two times I checked they said it was normal. Although im not really sure what normal is and Ive heard the tsh test isn't really accurate. So idk if its really withdrawal symptoms or that since they have a lot of similar symptoms.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I'd go with the 15 mg dose, since you've been at that dose for several days now.  

 

Hang in there. For you, this is going to be intense, but hopefully not as long-lasting as for most of us here. 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I agree , go with the 15mg dose. It's astonishing how even a few hours fluctuation can trigger a wave

of withdrawal symptoms.

 

Matta , to make this easier to follow , please could you add to the bottom of your signature.

Plan: taper off in 3 / 4 weeks Decrease by 5mg increments. Date you start. Update each time you drop

with date and dosage.

It makes it super easy for anyone reading to know where you're at without going through each post.

1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg

2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg

Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta

Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months.

July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months.

Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg.

October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive.

March 2016 , 21mg

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Ok. Im on mobile so I keep forgetting about signatures since I dont see them. Thanks.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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Well today was... Eventful. After a horrible morning I finally understand the power of withdrawals. That was probably one of the most horrific mental and physical sensations I have ever felt and it was because I delayed my dose. Paxil is some powerful stuff. Anyway im feeling a lot better now. Idk why it was so intense. I believe it was fresh who provided the symptoms checklist and chessiecat who reminded me but i will probably upload a copy of the symptoms with my usual update.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

This may help Mattac. You've really pushed the envelope with the 50% cut , that's probably why it hit so quickly.

 

PSYCHIATRIC SYMPTOMS

That Mimic Depression

1. Crying spells

2. Worsened mood

3. Low energy (fatigue,lethargy, malaise)

4. Trouble concentrating

5. Insomnia or trouble sleeping

6. Change in appetite

7. Suicidal thoughts

8. Suicide attempts

 

That Mimic Anxiety Disorders

9. Anxious, nervous, tense

10. Panic attacks (racing heart, breathless)

11. Chest pain

12. Trembling, jittery, or shaking

 

Irritability and Aggression

13. Irritability

14. Agitation (restlessness, hyperactivity)

15. Impulsive

16. Aggressiveness

17. Self-harm

18. Homicidal thoughts or urges

 

Confusion and Memory Problems

19. Confusion or cognitive difficulties

20. Memory problems or forgetfulness

 

Mood Swings

21. Elevated mood (feeling high)

22. Mood swings

23. Manic-like reactions

 

Hallucinations

24. Auditory hallucinations

25. Visual hallucinations

 

Dissociation

26. Feeling detached or unreal

 

Other

27. Excessive or intense dreaming

28. Nightmares

 

MEDICAL SYMPTOMS

That Mimic the Flu

29. Flu -like aches and pains

30. Fever

31. Sweats

32. Chills

33. Runny nose

34. Sore eyes

 

That Mimic Gastroenteritis

35. Nausea

36. Vomiting

37. Diarrhea

38. Abdominal pain or cramps

39. Stomach bloating

 

Dizziness

40. Disequilibrium

41. Spinning, swaying, lightheaded

42. Hung over or waterlogged feeling

43. Unsteady gait, poor coordination

44. Motion sickness

 

Headache

45. Headache

 

Tremor

46. Tremor

 

Sensory Abnormalities

47. Numbness, burning,or tingling

48. Electric zap-like sensations in the brain

49. Electric shock-like sensations in the body

50. Abnormal visual sensations

51. Ringing or other noises in the ears

52. Abnormal smells or tastes

 

Other

53. Drooling or excessive saliva

54. Slurred speech

55. Blurred vision

56. Muscle cramps, stiffness, twitches

57. Feeling of restless legs

58. Uncontrollable twitching of mouth

1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg

2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg

Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta

Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months.

July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months.

Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg.

October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive.

March 2016 , 21mg

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Unfortuanately I think you might be right. Maybe 50 percent was too much too fast. It probably just started kicking in at 30mg when I did that. I was referring to filling out the checklist and posting a copy of the symptoms I had today but those also help as a reminder. I might do that tomorrow though since im kind of tired. Starting to get those flu like symptoms haha.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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Nothing really new today. I feel a lot better than yesterday. I had some muscle aches when waking up and some of the flu like symptoms as well as anxiety but nothing new.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Glad you're feeling better today. Hopefully you're on your way to a full recovery. 

 

 

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The morning was good but now in feeling like shot. I took the 15mg dose around the same time I normally do. I was fine until 4 and then it felt like I crashed. I just got so tired and now in having suicidal thoughts and harmful thoughts again. In considering checking myself in somewhere. I don't want to hurt myself or anyone else. I thought I was done with this. Its like I don't even care anymore but at the same time I do or else I wouldn't be writing this. I know its the medication and not me. I wasn't even depressed when they prescribed this. I had suicidal thoughts maybe twice before they gave me this stuff. Aaaaggggghhhhhhh.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Did you do too much today, Matt?  While reducing, the nervous system is very sensitive to stress and just about anything can upset the apple cart.  Vigorous exercise, visitors, spending too much time out shopping (wears me out!), etc. can bring on withdrawal when otherwise having felt ok.  Anything like that today?

 

You weren't a depressed person before the meds so you know that this is due to the chemical imbalances due to fast tapering. It seems Paxil got it's hooks in you already. I am looking at your history and am confused by the week 1 through 4 part. This is your proposed schedule?  Where are you at with the Paxil now?  It would be helpful if you put actual dates of dosage drops.  I'm too tired to read through your whole thread to see what's what.  

 

I would say that if you are having such extreme wd symptoms,  I'd hesitate to follow your proposed taper schedule.  I know that we advised that you could do it quickly due to the fact you had only been on for three weeks, but your symptoms are extreme, including suicidal/self-harm ideation.  I'm going to check with the other mods on this.

 

Hang tight.  And of course, if you feel you need to be hospitalized to prevent self harm then do it.  This will pass, but we want you to be safe! 

 

SG

Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 

Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18:  2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor

 

My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi, Matt. Are you still using Klonopin to manage your Paxil withdrawal? If you can note down every time you take it, that would really help the moderators guide you in your withdrawal.

 

Klonopin also can cause suicidal thoughts. It did for me and when I was active on a benzo withdrawal board, I saw it have that effect on a lot of people.

 

So in addition to writing down your Paxil doses, please keep track of the Klonopin, noting down when you took it and the dose. 

 

I hope you get some relief soon. The suicidal thoughts from coming off these drugs is intense, but they will go away. From reading about how you take such good care of your siblings, you definitely have a reason to stick around.

 

This may sound bizarre, but on a benzo board, they advocated using "distraction" even for suicidal thoughts. So if you can go watch TV or play a video game, that will pass the time until you feel better. Bizarre or not, it worked for me! I got in hours and hours of playing games online and watching shows on NetFlix. If you can lose yourself in a distraction, this is the best coping skill you can take away from this.

 

It was very difficult to do this in the beginning because I felt like I needed to pace all of the time. But over time, I learned to relax and get interested in other types of distractions. It may even help your anxiety and OCD in the long run. 

 

Please be safe and take good care of yourself. And remember - the suicidal thoughts are temporary. 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Matt, 

 

I was trying to review your thread and this post stuck out at me:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11852-mattacmotoring-trying-to-taper-off-paxil-need-help/?p=219915

 

I am thinking the intermittent use of Klonopin had something to do with the panic attack, as these danged benzos have rebound anxiety.   How are you using the Klonopin now?  Daily, intermittently?  Did the suicidal feelings come on only after you started Paxil or did they come before as well?

 

I'd like to revisit Fresh's post here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11852-mattacmotoring-trying-to-taper-off-paxil-need-help/?p=219934

 

We are thinking you should go up to 20 mg and see if that makes any difference.  If you are still taking Ativan or Klonopin, how often?  Intermittent use may be complicating things as well.  It's getting messy, me thinks.

 

How are you today?

 

SG

Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 

Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18:  2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor

 

My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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I'm actually doing better today. @shep I watched TV last night to keep my mind off of it. Just everything that I would pass I would think about hurting myself. Knives or anything sharp. There was some trazodone in my pantry and i was thinking about taking it to go to sleep. [graphic description] and had to stop mmyself. In only slightly depressed today so its better. Still have a lot of anxiety. As for the benzos, sounds really sh*tty saying this but in kinda sol most of the time so its whatever I can get. Right now my mom has ativan until I can get into a doctor to get my own prescription I want to ween off of it so in thinking ill get klonopin. In just scared of coming off abruptly since I've been using them for more than a month. As for use I take about .5mg klonopin almost daily. Or .5mg to 1mg of ativan. Thank you guys so much for the suggestions and support.

Edited by JanCarol
removed graphic description

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

Link to comment

The suicidal feelings came after using the paxil. I wasn't really depressed before they prescribed it. 3 years ago I had a rough time and was living in a hotel, one of the many, while my mom was going through opiate withdrawals and I almost killed myself there too so I guess I have history of depression but I got a lot better after that.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

I'm actually doing better today. @shep I watched TV last night to keep my mind off of it. Just everything that I would pass I would think about hurting myself. Knives or anything sharp. There was some trazodone in my pantry and i was thinking about taking it to go to sleep. [graphic description] and had to stop mmyself. In only slightly depressed today so its better. Still have a lot of anxiety. As for the benzos, sounds really sh*tty saying this but in kinda sol most of the time so its whatever I can get. Right now my mom has ativan until I can get into a doctor to get my own prescription I want to ween off of it so in thinking ill get klonopin. In just scared of coming off abruptly since I've been using them for more than a month. As for use I take about .5mg klonopin almost daily. Or .5mg to 1mg of ativan. Thank you guys so much for the suggestions and support.

 

Hi, Matt. Thanks for checking back in with more information. Please do NOT add trazodone to the mix as you may make this much worse. Trazodone can cause sedation in some people, but with your history of sensitivity, it's much more likely to go paradoxical and cause even more anxiety. 

 

Can your mom hold your medication for you in case you feel like overdosing again? All it takes is a few minutes for that to happen and there may be no going back. Those impulses can be intense. I'm glad you were able to watch TV as a distraction. That's a very good sign and shows you do have some control. Own it and give yourself credit. That's a powerful thing.

 

 

The suicidal feelings came after using the paxil. I wasn't really depressed before they prescribed it. 3 years ago I had a rough time and was living in a hotel, one of the many, while my mom was going through opiate withdrawals and I almost killed myself there too so I guess I have history of depression but I got a lot better after that.

 
My mother also had lots of psych issues and was on various psychiatric drugs her entire life. That's a lot of weight to put on the kids. You really are doing well considering all you've been through.
 
A lot of young people go through intense suicidal states when they grow up in that kind of environment. My first suicide attempt was at 17 and if I had gotten the right kind of treatment instead of drugs, it's likely I would have recovered quickly and gotten on with it. Getting trapped on psych drugs is what makes this chronic. 
 
Once you get through this you're going to have a great life to look forward to. In the future, I hope you're able to work with a good therapist (someone who can't prescribe drugs) and get the anxiety and OCD under control. 
 
SquirellyGirl mentioned the fact that the mods are suggesting you go up to 20 mg Paxil. Is that something you can do with the tapering equipment and pills you currently have? Paxil also comes in liquid, so that's something to consider. You can also make your own liquid.
 
And remember to write down when you take Klonopin or Ativan and the dose. 
 
Take care tonight, Matt. This nightmare really is temporary. Better days are ahead. 
Edited by JanCarol
remove graphic description

 

 

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I would like to ask you this:  are you feeling worse now than you were during the three weeks on 30 mg Paxil?  It's been about seven days since you dropped to 15 mg, so you're likely to feel the brunt of the cut now.  You were feeling suicidal while on 30 and still are, so Shep's suggestions/concerns are quite valid.  It's a matter of sussing out whether you have the wherewithall to hold at this dose longer.  Since Paxil was causing you problems (probably because your danged doctor put you up so high so fast!), it's hard to judge when it is time to cut.  I would say we are looking for improvement over-all.

 

I've seen it so often on other forums, where doctors either start the patient at a high dose since they're taught by the pharma reps that a certain dosage is best for depression or anxiety; they don't scale the patient up the way we are talking about tapering down.  Imbalance occurs in both directions for similar reasons. 

 

It may be that you'll soon settle down on 15 mg, but it's tricky with the other drugs and the fact that you had extreme side effects.  So, if you are much worse at 50% than at 30 mg, then an up-dose would be advised, and Shep is right about making your own liquid if you don't have the means to get down to those in-between sized doses.

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

How to use oral syringes, gelatin capsules, powdered tablets, and do-it-yourself liquid solutions
 
How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules
General instructions on making a homemade liquid suspension
 

 

SG

Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 

Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18:  2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor

 

My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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@shep thanks for the encouragement. I know I keep saying this but thank you. I really appreciate the supporat encouragement and advice everyone here has given me. Yeah those were dark times but I got out of it once we moved again and i started going back to school.I'm sorry to hear about your mother as well. @squirrelygirl I was thinking about staying at 15mg for a little so my brain can adjust. I wasn't really expecting this to be honest. Any of this. I definitely agree that they should teach the doctors the reverse taper. They said the higher doses are supposedly better for ocd. Thanks for the links. I bought a pill cutter so 15mg is good but the lower doses might be tricky since the pill is an awkward shape so an oral suspensoon would be good to use. Also I don't remember if I updated today but I'm doing better. Still have a lot of anxiety but I'm not as depressed as yesterday.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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You sound calmer today, Matt. I'm glad you're doing better. Yes, the liquid technique does sound like a good way for you to go. 

 

Did you need to use Klonopin or Ativan yesterday? Please write this down, as it's important. 

 

I'm glad you were able to start going back to school. That says a lot about your strength. You sound like a real survivor with a great life ahead of you. 

 

 

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Great to hear you are doing better, Matt!  It would be nice to get you off quicker so that your system doesn't get even more entrenched, but at the same time you've got to listen to your body and let it tell you what you need.  Post here often to let us know if things go sideways.

 

Our last concern was the use of the Ativan or Klonopin.  In order to not muddy the waters, you either need to use only one of them AS NEEDED but no more than a couple of times a week.  If using more frequently, then use a lower dose daily, at the same time every day.  Which one helps you more?  Klonopin tends to give people more withdrawal trouble than Ativan, and both have longish half lives so the leaning seems to be towards Ativan.

 

Awareness of why you are having anxiety is half the battle, so if you can nurture yourself through it without reaching for the extras, that would be best.  You might hop on over to our benzo forum and look around there; that's where our benzo mods hang out and do their best work  :P

 

SG

Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 

Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18:  2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor

 

My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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I've been trying to take it as needed. Right now I have ativan but I was thinking about getting klonopin. I heard klonopin is better to taper if because of the half life. Should it be the other way around? Ill definitely look around the benzo forum and maybe ask there what I should do. I also have to update my signature. I just don't know what my plan is right now. Ill also add how much of the benzo I use with my update.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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Took 15mg today and 2 .5mg of ativan. I actually had an ok day. I hung out with a couple friends today and went to eat. We didn't really do much but I don't get out often so it was good. In feeling better its just the anxiety is kicking my ass. Its like it was before. I think the 30mg might have helped tbh because now I can actually feel my anxiety again. In constantly in fight or flight mode. Like I can't relax. Anyway in doing better today but ink what I'm going to do about tomorrow. I think I might just keep it at 15mg for the rest of the week. Does this sound good?

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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2 0.5mg of ativan. Just to clear that up. Once I posted I saw it looked like a lot more.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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2 of the 0.5mg Ativan pills is 1 mg of Ativan, and that's a good size dose. Ativan is a very powerful drug and you are risking dependency by taking it. In fact, 1 mg of Ativan is equal to 10 mg of Valium, so this is definitely not something you want to take for anything short of an emergency. 

 

Are there things you are doing to help control your anxiety? 

 

This is a really good breathing technique that can help:

 

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/VDR00112/The-4-7-8-Breath-Benefits-and-Demonstration.html

 

And the below gif is an interesting way to visualize your breathing. Okay, this moves a little too quickly for me! But the point is there are a lot of things out there to try. 

 

Any coping skills you can learn now will help. Don't forget about this section on non-drug techniques:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

 

 

 

 

 

683c825ef4d37618f765977d3c5b9d97fbe84f13

 

 

 

 

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Thanks shep for the links. Ill have to check into those. Honestly that's a lower dose for me. I was taking 1mg of ativan about 2 or 3 times a day when it was really bad. So .05mg twice is lower than usual but I understand. I want to get off of all of this and learn to rewire myself in addition to lifestyle changes.

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hey Mattac - 

 

Shep's got some great tools!

 

I believe you are doing well to hold at your current dose.  The fewer changes you make, the better.

 

I think the ativan / klonopin is destabilising you and causing anxiety in between doses.  And the clincher is - post benzo anxiety can be 3-5x worse than the original anxiety!

 

Sadly, I think you are hooked, so it would be a good idea to take the doses at the same time every day.  2 doses (this works for ativan or klonopin).  Choose a level and stay there. Otherwise you might make your Paxil withdrawal more difficult.  We'll deal with it later.

 

Is it ativan? Is it klonopin?  Your sig talks about future tapers - which is useless to us as mods.  We need to know what you are doing now.  Please, please please, this is like the 5th request - make your signature accurate to what you are taking, including dates.

 

Since you are using a phone, perhaps this will help:  Complete your Signature from Phone or Tablet

 

You've had some tiny windows, so I think you can do this - but if I were you I would hold until the symptoms subside.

 

We're all pulling for you!  It does get better, and you can do this!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Thanks for the info. Ill try to update my signature to reflect my current dose, plans, and dates. For some reason I have a hard time doing the signature correctly. Haha. In still taking 15mg and I'm hesitant to drop down but I think my mind has stabilized a little since then. Its been a couple days since I posted but I've been feeling a little better. As for the benzos as I told shep in kind of sol right now so its whatever I can get right now so I don't go through withdrawals. Right now my doses for benzos are weird since im using my moms. She has 2mg pills so try to split it in quarters. So usually .05mg once or twice a day. Lately its been really bad so sometimes its a little more. Like 1mg once or twice a day. So I know that's not the best thing. Im not sure whether I should focus on tapering off of benzos or ssris first. Ill update the signature with dates started. Just been busy lately. Thanks

Ocd and anxiety. 3/30/16 Paxil 30mgs. 3/10/16 Ativan 1mg. DC after 3 weeks. 3/28/16 Klonopin .5 mg.

Week 1: 15mg

Week 2: 10mg

Week 3: 5mg

Week 4: tba 2.5mg or 0mg

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