success ☼ elbee: 25 years of meds

[elbee]

Just a quick check in and milestone note. I'm down to 50 mg of Zoloft. I've pushed my Zoloft microtaper a bit over the last few months, but I'm still overall having longer and stronger windows, fewer and less intense waves. I can feel I'm at my taper speed limit right now though (feeling some light but eerie dp/dr type stuff lately), so I'll hold at the 50 mg through August and re-evaluate then. I'm still feeling so appreciative that I'm completely benzo free, and taking only 1/9 the total psych drugs I was on when I started this taper

[Altostrata]

How are you doing, elbee?

[elbee]

Alto, thanks for checking in, and helping me remember that it’s probably about time I myself check in here, too with an update

 

I’m down to 30 mg of Zoloft and I have to say, I’m doing overall really pretty well. I’m even getting to the point where saying that doesn’t scare me like it used to -- feeling like I would be jinxing myself by trying to avoid “the other shoe dropping.” I still have periods of very light agoraphobia, DP/DR but nothing like it was. I still have intense anxiety at times, but I also have days that are virtually anxiety free. I still have "bad" days, but I am having more and more days that are much easier. I’m recovering. I’m getting better. I’m continuing to trust in the healing process I've created for myself (most of which I've written about here) more and more. I’m continuing to explore new ways to move out of my “hermitage” environment I had to create to heal, and continuing to find “next best steps” forward look like. I know I have more WD to go through, but I’m comfortable with the process and my pace. I trust not only that I will be completely off the drugs sometime next year, but that I will have, through my WD / RECOVERY process, found new foundations and a new way to live.

 

I will have WD waves in the coming months. But my “lows” are less low, less frequent, and less long. And when I’m in them, I’m better able to trust that I will once again, eventually, find my way out. I’m learning to “sit with the discomfort” when it happens, and to better enjoy the windows when they open. I spend much more time these days in an “abiding ok-ness” in a way I’ve never experienced before . . . an “OK” place in myself that is becoming the default instead of the exception. I’m “waking up” from a lifelong slumber I have been in – and opening doors to myself that I thought the drugs had permanently closed.

 

I think I really am, slowly but consistently, coming out of the hell I was in. And I promise, I will continue to come back and keep making updates in my process. I will write my entire "recovery story" when I get fully to "the other side" of this drug withdrawal. I will continue to find new ways to reach out to others who are suffering as I continue to get stronger.

Edited November 20, 2018 by elbee

[Altostrata]

That's great news, elbee. Look at how far you've come! You'll do fine.

[elbee]

I was invited to be a moderator on this website, and I have accepted the invitation. Thank you Alto and the current staff for giving me the opportunity to give back to SurvivingAntidepressants.org . . . a resource that helped save my life, and that has been such an important part of my psych drug recovery process!

 

Also, I have made some big changes to my signature line. In part, this has to do with becoming a mod, but also it's a milestone for me in my overall recovery process. I don't feel as much of a need now to capture my entire drug wounding history there anymore. The signature line was a great way for me to claim truth about the damage that was done to me from psych drugs. I've been able to let go of some of that as part of my healing process. Now it's time for me to use that space to focus more on the healing than the wounding in my journey. It's taken a long time to get to this place. I'm grateful!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience and what I have learned.

You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices.

 

REMERON FREE! 12/11/16 - total time on 15 months

BENZO FREE! 4/7/18 - total time on 27 years

Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years

Current Zoloft: 30 mg remaining (microtapering) - 27 years on and counting . . .

 

My introduction thread.

Began psych drugs for panic attacks on 1/20/1991: 100 mg Zoloft daily, 2.5 mg Ativan daily

Began tapering on 1/1/2016 (25 years later): 150 mg Zoloft, 15 mg Remeron, 2 mg Klonopin

[Carmie]

Hi elbee, 

 

How are you doing? I just read your signature n you really have come such a long  way. Well done! Keep up the good work.

 

Sending hugs🤗

[Happy2Heal]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:22 PM, elbee said:

I was invited to be a moderator on this website, and I have accepted the invitation.

 

 

congratulations elbee!!

and thank you for being willing to do this

 

we have so many wonderful mods on this site, I'm very grateful that there are folks like you willing to put in so much time and effort to help others

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi elbee, 

 

Thanks so much for popping around to my thread the other day, much appreciated. How have you been doing?💚

[elbee]

Hi Carmie . . . you're welcome. I've had ups and downs . . . thankfully I continue to have more ups than downs overall. 

 

I've been wanting to do another update on here as I continue to get closer to WD-0, but my attention and energy has been drawn to other places lately. Part of what I will write about is how I'm experiencing some psychological shifts that feel related to my approaching WD-0. I think my resistance to doing an update might be related to that. Eventually it will happen

[SkyBlue]

30 minutes ago, elbee said:

I've been wanting to do another update on here as I continue to get closer to WD-0, but my attention and energy has been drawn to other places lately. Part of what I will write about is how I'm experiencing some psychological shifts that feel related to my approaching WD-0. I think my resistance to doing an update might be related to that. Eventually it will happen

 

It definitely will happen, Elbee. It's amazing what you've achieved so far. I actually just teared up, re-reading your signature. Off of a benzo after 20+ years, tapering Zoloft after 28 years... Truly amazing.

[elbee]

On 2/15/2019 at 10:41 AM, SkyBlue said:

Truly amazing.

 

Thanks for your encouragement SkyBlue   We have some similarities in our drug histories ("doctor supervised taper" that was way too fast, long time SSRI use, Zoloft, etc.) and with our "self-care" approach to healing. Your progress and courage inspires me too!

[Carmie]

Hi elbee, 

 

I’ll look forward to reading your updates when you are able to do them. I’m glad you’re having more ups than downs.

 

Sending hugs🤗

[elbee]

“Benzos are alcohol in a pill . . .”

 

Alcohol and benzos work predominantly on the same neurotransmitter systems, GABA, so it makes sense folks turn to alcohol when coming off benzos. And now, people are turning to kava to quit alcohol and/or benzos and guess which neurotransmitter is believed to be predominantly effected by kava . . . drum roll . . . yup, GABA. So it seems the propensity in dealing with addiction withdrawal is to turn to another substance that affects the same neurotransmitter system. Very dangerous stuff, but makes perfect sense why people do this. However, this isn't really withdrawal, its substitution.

 

Anecdotally, when the psychiatrist first put me on benzos back in 1990, I asked him, "What if the benzos were no longer available . . . what would I do?" He said, "You would become an alcoholic."

 

Additionally, if people are trying to COMPLETELY abstain in one particular neurotransmitter arena altogether to fully withdraw, it seems there is still a strong propensity to turn to a DIFFERENT substance or behavior that MIMICS / SUBSTITUTES FOR the "positive" effects produced by the substance from which they are working to withdraw. Thus, I do NOT think it is wise for folks to turn to one substance that naturally creates tolerance (in this case, a benzo) to help them get off another substance where tolerance has already been created and from which they are working to withdraw (an SSRI).

 

Tangential but probably related, I know this website suggests withdrawing from SSRIs before benzos if someone is taking both because the SSRI is considered to be more "activating." I understand this to mean that the SSRI is considered to be a "stimulant" where the benzo is considered to be a "depressant." I didn't go that route with my withdrawal, and for me, completely withdrawing from the benzos first was the right choice. I had built up tolerance to both drugs, and IMHO, the "depressant" effects of the benzo were no longer effective because I had reached tolerance (I was simply re-experiencing "withdrawal" all the time). The benzos were much more "psychoactive" in my experience than the SSRIs. I much more IMMEDIATELY felt the effects of benzo withdrawal in ways that I have not experienced with the SSRI withdrawal. With that, I was concerned I would more likely turn to an extra benzo dose for "quick relief" in the withdrawal process than I would to the SSRI, and I needed to NOT have the benzos at my fingertips because of that. And in full disclosure, I wanted the more "controlled" substance (the benzo) and all that relates to it out of my life . . . that was part of my decision, too.

 

I think of the SSRI as "insulation" . . . like the outer insulation wrapping on a hot, metal, electric wire. As I remove the insulation (SSRI) I don't immediately notice the effects as the insulation is decreased (in terms of immediate anxiety). But when a current surges on that wire (a stressful life event comes up, or an old childhood memory and/or feeling arises as I do the trauma healing work), then I definitely notice that there is less insulation on the hot wire than there used to be! I think this probably relates to the idea of protracted withdrawal? In other words, I've decreased the SSRI too quickly without immediately noticing the effects (because the drug is less "psychoactive") but then get into trouble down the road as life events arise because the wire is too "raw" for me to deal with . . . I haven't yet adapted to that experiential state. This of course is a COMPOUNDING issue from the general effects of SSRI withdrawal.

 

2 cents  

[apace41]

18 minutes ago, elbee said:

Alcohol and benzos work predominantly on the same neurotransmitter systems, GABA, so it makes sense folks turn to alcohol when coming off benzos. And now, people are turning to kava to quit alcohol and/or benzos and guess which neurotransmitter is believed to be predominantly effected by kava . . . drum roll . . . yup, GABA. So it seems the propensity in dealing with addiction withdrawal is to turn to another substance that affects the same neurotransmitter system. Very dangerous stuff, but makes perfect sense why people do this. However, this isn't really withdrawal, its substitution.

 

Good stuff overall, Elbee, but there is in my view another way of looking at this.  If one finds benefit from something like Kava in reducing the benzo load so long as the person knows they need to taper off the Kava that might be an effective "step down" to getting off the prescribed drug.  Other herbs that also work on GABA could be considered as well, such as Chamomile and Valerian.  I could posit an approach that had someone tapering off the benzo onto Kava, off the Kava onto Valerian and off the Valerian onto Chamomile to end up weaning off by reducing the amount of tea one drinks in a day.  I'm not sure if that works but substitution with less "intense" forms of GABA agonist might not be the worst thing in the world.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[elbee]

9 hours ago, apace41 said:

If one finds benefit from something like Kava in reducing the benzo load so long as the person knows they need to taper off the Kava that might be an effective "step down" to getting off the prescribed drug.  Other herbs that also work on GABA could be considered as well, such as Chamomile and Valerian.

 

I get that Andy, and yes it’s definitely an option. But why not use the pill form for the taper which is a much more exact measurement? And why ADD a "supplement" that effects the same neurotransmitter system that you are trying to taper off of? Why not just taper the benzo more slowly/less?

 

Logically, what you say makes sense, but for someone trying to get off these drugs (benzos/booze), logic isn’t always at play. I went to a kava bar (designated as a "recovery" venue) with friends recently and I wanted something without kava and without caffeine (which I also quit). I asked the bartender/barista if they had something without any “chemicals.”  She said they don’t serve anything there with chemicals, everything they serve is all natural. I rephrased and asked if they had herbal tea. 

 

I think there is a level of potential denial and “gaminess” related to the intense, immediate “psychoactivity” involved with the GABA withdrawal process that isn’t really part of the SSRI withdrawal process. At least that’s been my experience. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by elbee

[elbee]

Update . . .

 

I continue to get closer to the withdrawal zero point (WD-0) with Zoloft. And as Zoloft is the last drug I'm tapering, I'm approaching the complete WD-0 of my drug taper . . . entirely drug free. This "home stretch" has been tough, mostly because my patience in the process is really challenged. When I started this "detox" process 5 years ago (almost to the day . . . April 1, 2014) I was drinking loads of alcohol, smoking over a pack of cigarettes a day, drinking a pot or two of coffee a day, and on 150 mg of Zoloft, 15 mg of Remeron and 2 mg of clonazapam (not to mention all the dissociative and numbing behaviors I was engaging in and incredibly poor self-care generally). Today, all of those chemicals are out of my life except 7 mg of Zoloft. I've survived, and I'm more alive today than I ever have been. It's been a long and brutal road. Not working, not having kids, not being partnered . . . having some savings . . . I've pushed my taper / detox the entire way (if you do that math, you can easily see that). I've gone as fast as I could with being able to stay alive. We each have our own course on this path -- for better or worse, that has been the course I chose. I'm grateful to have found the type of healing space in my life that I have . . . not everyone gets that, I know.

 

AND, I want to be off the last of these drugs REALLY REALLY badly!  I'm feeling so much better overall, my mind starts telling me "Just drop another mg this week, what's the big deal? What's 1 mg of Zoloft compared to the 150 mg you were on when this taper started? It's just one little mg!" It's just SO HARD for me to believe that these minuscule changes in small doses seems to really make a significant difference. But I'll tell you what, it really does appear to be the case that this is true. I just checked and in my microtaper process I dropped 40% in the last 1.5 months, and man did I pay! I've felt a bit more ease today . . . my self-care is getting so much better I can deal with the discomfort much more gently and skillfully, but WHEW! And it's clear to me that it's time to hold again for a bit. I've come to believe there is an internal pace in this process (drug taper / recovery) and I simply can't go faster than this pace will allow. My job is to stay as connected as possible to knowing and respecting the pace . . . and learning a bit more patience and self-love/compassion along the way.

 

I will gain a greater perspective with all of this of course post "WD-0" and beyond. But for today, I have to live from the vantage point I have.

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, elbee said:

Update . . .

I continue to get closer to the withdrawal zero point (WD-0) with Zoloft.

 

Elbee,

 

Congratulations on getting so low on your Zoloft.  I don't know if you're familiar with  this link as you contemplate zero mg:

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

[elbee]

8 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Congratulations on getting so low on your Zoloft.  I don't know if you're familiar with  this link as you contemplate zero mg:

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

 

Hey Gridley, yes thanks that's a great thread on the topic. Over and over in that thread folks emphasize "exercise caution" and "listen to your body" to know when it's time to jump and both of those things are what I plan to do

[elbee]

I've been having a rough stretch as I get closer and closer to being drug free. In chatting with another "fellow traveler" on here who was having a hard time, I was able to remind myself of a few things in this "drug detox" process . . .

 

-------------

 

There were many times in the tapering process that things seemed to get worse before they got better. Many times. And each time it got really bad I chose to stay the course with the taper. What I found was that I usually had to "adjust course" with other things in my life to make things better. Some might call this "self-care."

 

For a long time for example, I had to give up exercise completely because it was so painful and I was so exhausted. I perhaps I could have continued to exercise if I went back up with the drugs, but I chose to make the lifestyle change instead of reinstate. So much of my identity was based on how I looked, so this was tough to feel like I was "letting myself go" physically.

 

There were times I couldn't be around or interact with certain people (family mostly) because I felt so incredibly triggered when I was around them. So I had to not be around them for a while and that was painful for me and for them. And that was tough because so much of my identity was based in being who it was others wanted me to be.

 

And for me, so much of my identity was tied in with my work . . . I WAS my work . . . but I haven't been able to work and I had to give that up. This is still one of my biggest struggles.

 

Over and over again I felt so weak and tired and emotionally raw and anxious and fuzzy-headed and I would swear each time I wasn't going to make it. But then here I am. I found that I simply HAD to back off on things that I could not do during the withdrawal process. It's been an incredibly brutal process at times -- in many ways, a process of "deconstruction." I just knew that the drugs, for me, weren't the answer -- that I would have to find different ways to do things. I had to learn to listen to (bring back) the parts of me the drugs silenced, even when it prevented me from doing all the things I felt I HAD to do. And in a sense, bringing these parts of me back online and into my life has been a process of "reconstruction" or perhaps "reclamation." For me, my "recovery" process (including this drug taper) has been about becoming more fully-human than perhaps I've ever been.

 

-------------

 

One thing I noticed in this writing was that I wrote all it all in past tense. Hmmm.

[mdwstrx]

Hi Elbee.

Congratulations on your successful tapers so far!  I'm very very happy for you and find your efforts inspiring. I haven't yet read through your whole thread, though I intend to. 

Oops, I posted a question that is answered in your thread so... nevermind. 🙃 Deleting my question.

I'll keep watching your progress and saying prayers for a safe and successful taper.  

 

[elbee]

Thanks for stopping by mdwstrx and for sharing your kind words

[lalala]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:54 PM, elbee said:

I've been having a rough stretch as I get closer and closer to being drug free. In chatting with another "fellow traveler" on here who was having a hard time, I was able to remind myself of a few things in this "drug detox" process . . .

 

-------------

 

There were many times in the tapering process that things seemed to get worse before they got better. Many times. And each time it got really bad I chose to stay the course with the taper. What I found was that I usually had to "adjust course" with other things in my life to make things better. Some might call this "self-care."

 

For a long time for example, I had to give up exercise completely because it was so painful and I was so exhausted. I perhaps I could have continued to exercise if I went back up with the drugs, but I chose to make the lifestyle change instead of reinstate. So much of my identity was based on how I looked, so this was tough to feel like I was "letting myself go" physically.

 

There were times I couldn't be around or interact with certain people (family mostly) because I felt so incredibly triggered when I was around them. So I had to not be around them for a while and that was painful for me and for them. And that was tough because so much of my identity was based in being who it was others wanted me to be.

 

And for me, so much of my identity was tied in with my work . . . I WAS my work . . . but I haven't been able to work and I had to give that up. This is still one of my biggest struggles.

 

Over and over again I felt so weak and tired and emotionally raw and anxious and fuzzy-headed and I would swear each time I wasn't going to make it. But then here I am. I found that I simply HAD to back off on things that I could not do during the withdrawal process. It's been an incredibly brutal process at times -- in many ways, a process of "deconstruction." I just knew that the drugs, for me, weren't the answer -- that I would have to find different ways to do things. I had to learn to listen to (bring back) the parts of me the drugs silenced, even when it prevented me from doing all the things I felt I HAD to do. And in a sense, bringing these parts of me back online and into my life has been a process of "reconstruction" or perhaps "reclamation." For me, my "recovery" process (including this drug taper) has been about becoming more fully-human than perhaps I've ever been.

 

-------------

 

One thing I noticed in this writing was that I wrote all it all in past tense. Hmmm.

I wanted to ask you if you had insomnia or you were freed from it ,  I'm laso tapering  my AD  and benzo, holding and will continue  on my AD

[elbee]

On 5/2/2019 at 8:46 AM, lalala said:

I wanted to ask you if you had insomnia or you were freed from it

 

Hey lalala, I wrote a detailed entry about my struggles with sleep (insomnia and the challenges of waking up) at this link:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17471-waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike/page/21/?tab=comments#comment-361770

 

No, I am not totally freed from my sleep challenges. But they have decreased significantly, and most importantly I struggle less with it . . . I'm more at peace with the process of dealing with sleep / waking challenges and that makes a huge difference. Getting off the drugs helps for sure, but it's also clear I have struggled with sleep / waking since I was very young. Getting off the drugs will not fix my sleep, but it's an essential part of my equation for healing. As I remove the toxins from my body, I'm better able to address old wounds and practice self-care and those things seem to slowly but consistently make big differences.

[lalala]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:16 PM, elbee said:

 

Hey lalala, I wrote a detailed entry about my struggles with sleep (insomnia and the challenges of waking up) at this link:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17471-waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike/page/21/?tab=comments#comment-361770

 

No, I am not totally freed from my sleep challenges. But they have decreased significantly, and most importantly I struggle less with it . . . I'm more at peace with the process of dealing with sleep / waking challenges and that makes a huge difference. Getting off the drugs helps for sure, but it's also clear I have struggled with sleep / waking since I was very young. Getting off the drugs will not fix my sleep, but it's an essential part of my equation for healing. As I remove the toxins from my body, I'm better able to address old wounds and practice self-care and those things seem to slowly but consistently make big differences.

  Thank you for your message Elbee,  I'm also  coming of  klonopin after a short term use for ssri wd sxs, between the fatigue and the insomnia and the life stresses that I didn't anticipate don't know how I manage sometimes... I saw another post of yours regards  tapering the AD and then the benzo  in intervals?I would like to know about this... blessing  xx

[elbee]

June is LGBTQ+ Pride 🌈 month, and it's time for me to do a little "coming out" . . . but not about my sexual orientation in this case. As of April 28th, 2019, I've been completely:

 

 🌟  DRUG FREE!  🌟

 

I "jumped" early from the last of the Zoloft (7 mg) and I wasn't sure what to do with that decision here because it didn't fit exactly with what this website generally recommends.  Let me be very clear. though, that I fully support the standard tapering protocols of this website. I adhered to the general tapering principles, and I've no doubt these protocols kept me alive. AND, I ultimately had to find my own path through this drug nightmare that worked best for my specific situation . . . and I pushed the standard taper protocol at times. Mostly, I just didn't feel right talking openly here as a moderator while moving forward with a significant deviation at the end of my taper. 

 

What I can say is that I've come to trust an "internal compass" that's been developing during my taper / healing / recovery process these past years, and a strong sense arose within me that it was time to cut the drugs to zero. This sense grew stronger over a several month period . . . this was by no means a whimsical decision. And I felt pretty strongly that I wanted to wait 6-8 weeks after the jump before I said anything on this website. I felt sure about the decision being right for me, but I was honestly still very scared that the s*** could hit the fan. Mostly, I just came to a place where I was willing to accept whatever arose from the jump, and felt strongly that it was the right decision for me and that I could survive it. I accept that there may still be repercussions from this decision laying ahead for me. I guess I felt it best to write here on the experience in retrospect rather than real time.

 

My taper has always been a bit "non-traditional," though, due to a virtual cold turkey (3 month withdrawal) and crazy drug chasing re-reinstatement that began this process for me in 2014/15. When I found and began this protocol, I was in a very injured state. My "withdrawal normal" was never very good, and I've been mostly disabled and not working at all during this tapering period in my life. My approach was to push the taper as much as I could (while living off my savings, this has been a bit of a "time clock") without dying in the process. And it seems, thankfully, this approach has worked for me. I have no doubt I will continue to experience windows and waves . . . ups and downs . . . good days and bad -- but I genuinely believe that the depths of hell I experienced through the worst of this process are over. 

 

So I took a bit of a hiatus from this website during this final jump period, but it's very important to me that anyone who reads this knows I did not do the jump alone. I have developed a very close and deep support network in my "offline" life  -- people who knew exactly what I was doing and who were very much with me in the process. I have many trusted "fellow travelers" now through the Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families (ACA) 12 Step program. Some of these friends happen to work in the medical field and others in counseling and other "helping" professions and I depended on them for their expertise and support. I also found a great primary care physician who has been incredibly supportive of me in my tapering / awakening process.

 

So now that I've "come out" as having reached "Withdrawal Zero" (WD-0), I think it will be a significant step towards my becoming more public about my tapering / awakening process generally.  While I've tried to be supportive of others too who are doing what I've been doing, I've had to be very careful NOT to make my process an exhibition for others. As I've written about previously, achievement / people-pleasing / approval seeking are linked to my core wounds and run very deep. I've been trying to "dissolve" my false self / ego in my healing / recovery work, and putting my tapering process out for everyone else to see would have been contrary to the growth I've been trying to do. I wanted to develop and trust my new "inner compass" in my healing / recovery process, and not get caught up in performance for others. This will be a challenging area for me I know moving forward, something I will continue to work with. But I think talking more publicly about what I DID in this process will be "healthier" for me than talking about what I'm DOING. We shall see.

 

One thing is very clear to me, this drug taper and larger recovery process has probably become the most significant marker in my adult life. I started taking these drugs when I was 20 years old . . . almost 30 years ago. Until now, I have not lived any of my adult life not drugged. Today, I am living in a completely different consciousness. It is both exciting and terrifying. And it's clear to me that this drug taper has been part of a larger process of awakening, of healing from childhood (and societal) trauma, and of becoming fully alive. I've no doubt the hell I experienced these past years will shape and define the course of the rest of my life.

 

So I think that's it for now. I want to give a shout out at this point to @Altostrata and the entire crew of dedicated folks here at SurvivingAntidepressants.org who give so much of themselves in support of others. ❤️🙏❤️ You all very much helped keep me alive in my darkest days! And while I'm feeling a huge sense of accomplishment right now, I'm also looking forward to writing my "official" success story in 10 more months time 😉

Edited June 25, 2019 by elbee

[elbee]

Here is my complete taper history . . .

 

ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years

BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years

REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months

Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years

Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years

 

-- MED TAPER 2016-2019 –

 

START: 150 mg sertraline (Z=Zoloft), 15 mg mirtazapine (R=Remeron), 2 mg clonazepam (K=Klonopin)

 

4/28/19: Jump. DRUG FREE.

3/31/19: Z=7 mg

3/24/19: Z=8 mg

3/17/19: Z=9 mg

3/3/19: Z=10 mg

2/16/19: Z=12 mg

1/13/19: Z=15 mg

12/16/18:  Z=20 mg (Z “new schedule” . . . 1/1 = 15, 2/1 = 10 . . . 3/1 = 5 . . . 4/1 . . . jump – we shall see) (NOPE 2/16/19)

12/8/18:  Z=25 mg (switch to 25 mg pill)

10/28/18:  Z=30 mg

9/30/18:  Z=35 mg (Z microtaper)

9/16/18:  Z=40 mg

9/2/18:  Z=45 mg

7/29/18: Z=50 mg

6/30/18: Z=58 mg

6/3/18: Z=66 mg

4/7/18: Z=75 mg, (BENZO JUMP!)

4/1/18: Z=75 mg, K=0.2 mg

2/25/18: Z=75 mg, K=0.25 mg

12/31/17: Z=75 mg, K=0.35 mg

11/5/17: Z=75 mg, K=0.45 mg (K microtaper, begin 5 mg decrease by pill weight per week, hold when needed)

7/23/17: Z=75 mg, K=0.5 mg

7/9/17: Z=82 mg, K=0.5 mg

6/18/17: Z=82 mg, K=0.54 mg

6/11/17: Z=82 mg, K=0.58 mg

5/28/17: Z=90 mg, K=0.58 mg

5/21/17: Z=90 mg, K=0.62 mg

5/14/17: Z=90 mg, K=0.66 mg

5/7/17: Z=90 mg, K=0.71 mg

4/23/17: Z=100 mg, K=0.71 mg

4/16/17: Z=100 mg, K=0.75 mg

4/8/17: Z=100 mg, K=0.78 mg

3/26/17: Z=100 mg, K=0.82 mg

3/12/17: Z=100 mg, K=0.9 mg

1/22/17: Z=100 mg, K=1 mg (REMERON JUMP! – Major breathing problems WD symptom)

1/15/17: Z=100 mg, R=1.4 mg, K=1 mg

1/8/17: Z=100 mg, R=2.8 mg, K=1 mg

1/1/17: Z=100 mg, R=3.75 mg, K=1 mg

12/25/16: Z=100 mg, R=4.7 mg, K=1 mg

12/11/16: Z=100 mg, R=6 mg, K=1 mg

11/13/16: Z=100 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1 mg

11/06/16: Z=100 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.175 mg

10/23/16: Z=100 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.25 mg

10/17/16: Z=100 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.375 mg

10/2/16: Z=100 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.5 mg

9/1/16: Z=112.5 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.5 mg

7/27/16: Z=125 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.5 mg

5/1/16: Z=135 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.5 mg

4/10/16: Z=150 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=1.5 mg

1/24/16: Z=150 mg, R=7.5 mg, K=2.0 mg

 

Supplements: 7/11/16 - 200 mg magnesium (stopped 7/5/17). 12/20/16 - 5,000 IU Vitamin D-3. (stopped after about 6 months)

 

Psych Med History:

January, 1991 (age 20, in college): First major panic attacks (diagnosis, PD, GAD, Depression). Prescribed desipramine and lorazepam daily. 1/8/92 begin lorazepam taper. 3/1/92 off lorazepam, begin desipramine taper. 4/6/92 off all meds. 6/4/92 back on full dose daily lorazepam. 2/19/93 back on desipramine. 4/3/93 desipramine wasn’t working, prescribed Prozac. 5/10/93 Prozac wasn’t working, prescribed Zoloft (100 mg sertraline, 2.5 mg lorazepam daily). Tried to reduce meds several times in the following years but essentially took these meds for about 24 years.

2014-2015: Quit drinking alcohol and 3.5 month taper off all meds under doc supervision. October 2014 - Return of severe panic attacks, with 8-month "SSRI/Benzo chase" to try and stabilize. June 2015 - Found a drug "reinstatement" (more drugs than I had ever been on) that stopped the panic attacks, but was left with severe anxiety, depression, and numerous side effects: 150 mg sertraline (Z=Zoloft), 15 mg mirtazapine (R=Remeron), 2 mg clonazepam (K=Klonopin)

Edited June 24, 2019 by elbee

[mdwstrx]

Hi Elbee and CONGRATULATIONS! 

It is a HUGE accomplishment and one I hope I can follow in time!  Can't wait to see your success story! 💜

🤗

 

May I ask, how do you feel now?

 

[elbee]

Thanks @mdwstrx 

 

It was a rough stretch for a few weeks, seemed to hit a period of feeling some fresh air, another rough patch . . . perhaps the waves have been a bit longer than usual but not much deeper, thankfully. Not unmanageable. I've been feeling pretty well overall the past few days in particular. I haven't experienced anything in the past two months that would constitute anything I would call a setback. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by elbee

[mdwstrx]

I'm very very happy to hear that.  🙏

I wasn't so lucky jumping at 2.5 mg. but they say escitalopram is stronger.  

 

[wantrelief]

Wow, congratulations on this amazing accomplishment elbee!  It is inspiring to read your story knowing you were able to taper off of multiple drugs and successfully taper when your"withdrawal normal" was not very good as this is where I find myself too.  You have a lot to celebrate this month!  

[elbee]

@mdwstrx It's always safest to go slow and adhere to the protocol . . . and even hold longer when necessary. I almost always inevitably paid when I pushed, and was forced to hold for longer periods when I pushed too hard. But I also know I developed lots of self-care skills along the way that allowed me to cope with the pain and discomfort better when it arose. 

 

Because I've become so much more functional as I've healed, I will say that I noticed much more difficulty concentrating and thinking clearly these past two months as I've taken on more commitments. It's not like I'm coming away from this jump unscathed by any means. But again, I was able to adapt and be "more OK" with not thinking clearly instead of spiraling down into worry and catastrophe. And in part I was able to do that because I'm not working, I don't have a partner, I don't have kids relying on me, and even these newer commitments I've made are fairly flexible, etc. I was able to push this taper because I've been able to be "non functional" in my life  Very few people have the freedom to do that. 

[mdwstrx]

21 minutes ago, elbee said:

 I was able to push this taper because I've been able to be "non functional" in my life  Very few people have the freedom to do that. 

I get it because I also have that freedom. Single, retired etc... But I’m finding It difficult nonetheless less.  Thanks for your feedback.  It’s very helpful.  

 

Thankful to read that you become more functional as you healed. 

 

💜

[elbee]

2 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Wow, congratulations on this amazing accomplishment elbee!  It is inspiring to read your story knowing you were able to taper off of multiple drugs and successfully taper when your"withdrawal normal" was not very good as this is where I find myself too.  You have a lot to celebrate this month!  

 

Thanks wantrelief. Yes, even with a "not so good" withdrawal normal we can get through this and find healing

[ChessieCat]

Congratulations.  Really huge achievement getting off all of those things.

 

And thank you for being open and honest about everything too.

[elbee]

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

And thank you for being open and honest about everything too.

 

Thanks @ChessieCat I appreciate your support of my trying to be open and honest . . . it's important for me to do that ❤️🙏  I also think it may be of benefit to others to know that there is no single "right" way to do this. IMHO, the protocols this website supports are spot on as a default. And I fully agree with mantras like, "when in doubt, hold" and "go gently." This was very much the approach I took. I also believe that one of the most important parts of my own tapering/recovery process has been to discover, reclaim, and learn to trust my own inner compass again -- meaning it makes sense sometimes to deviate from some of the "rules." We still have so much to learn about these drugs, the mess they have gotten us in to, and the paths of escape. More to be revealed.

[elbee]

This is an exchange I had with another person on this website about drug tapering and the Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families (ACA) 12 Step childhood trauma recovery program. With that person's permission, I'm posting it here (without direct reference to that person) as something that might be useful for others . . .

 

➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖

 

QUESTION: Hey Elbee. I've started going back through my ACA material again, reading the Big Red Book. What are your thoughts on the first part of the book in the Doctors Opinion where it talks about the stages of recovery, and seems to say that [we who are taking psych meds] are emotionally medicated and need to work this tapering before we will get much benefit from the successive stages of ACA recovery? It seems to state that psychiatric meds can be a distraction to being able to focus on ACA recovery issues, and even if we aren't abusing the meds we are dependent on them. I know when I first attended ACA in 2016 I was medicated and sure enough I sorta relapsed, got involved in a long distant relationship, dropped out of ACA and made some unhealthy decisions. I was curious as to your thoughts. I need to quit isolating and get involved with others who are experiencing the struggles of being an adult child but these comments make me wonder if I have to be completely off the meds to benefit from the stages of ACA recovery? Appreciate your thoughts.

 

----------------------

 

RESPONSE: Hey [Fellow Traveler],

 

My thoughts are that "medicating" is not an all-nothing proposition, but a matter of degree when it comes to healing trauma. 

 

First, my sense is that Adult Children of Alcoholic and Dysfunctional Families (ACA) included a "doctors opinion" in their "Big Red Book" (BRB) fellowship text at least in part because Alcoholics Anonymous's (AA) "big book" fellowship text has a doctor's opinion in theirs. When AA was created in the 1930/40's, it was an important viewpoint to include in order to refute alcoholism (addiction) being simply a "moral" issue needing "moral" (religious) remedies." Perhaps there is still a need today to talk about trauma and PTSD from an "authoritative" (medical) perspective to keep people from their propensities to "blame the victim" -- particularly if that victim is themselves.

 

If someone is completely lost in their active addiction, then no . . . ACA / trauma recovery probably isn't the right program for them . . . they need to first focus on their primary addictions recovery. But I also think "lost in active addiction" is at least as much of a mindset / spiritual state as it is a matter of physiology and chemicals. You mentioned having a "sorta relapse" getting involved in a distant (co-dependent?) relationship and that you then dropped out of ACA. There are chemical correlates to codependent behavior that effect us very much like the external substances we put into our bodies to alter our experience of life. ACA talks about this as the "internal drug store." In this light, someone in AA who abstains from alcohol but is completely lost in a co-dependent relationship is no more ready for ACA than an active problem drinker. 

 

On the other hand, I've seen many people come in to ACA who are in co-dependent relationships, but for whom some type of "switch" flipped and they have a sense that something isn't quite right and needs to change. This might simply be an "ah-ha" (light bulb) moment, or in most cases, something much more painful coming from hitting a "bottom." IMHO, this person CAN benefit very much from ACA even if they are in a process of trying to release an active addiction. Most 12 Step programs would probably talk about this in the context of a willingness to "surrender" in Step 1. I've also known people coming into ACA (with no AA background) who drink in ways that most would probably see as "problematic," but who they themselves don't consider to be alcoholic. Those that were open to taking an honest look at their drinking generally stayed and have benefited from the program (usually coming to a place of abstinence or at least diligent conscious awareness and monitoring of their alcohol use). Those that weren't open to looking at their drinking honestly almost always have left. Perhaps they will return later.

 

For me personally, it's very clear now that the Zoloft and benzodiazepines were numbing / distracting (sedating/stimulating) me. As I went through the tapering process with the drugs, I was incrementally and simultaneously engaged in an AWAKENING process. It's also quite clear to me that if I had tried to "cold turkey" the drugs, aside from the physiological correlate descriptions of experiencing life-threatening withdrawal symptoms, I would have gone into an "awakening state of shock." I really do believe this was what I was experiencing with the "panic attacks" that led me to take the drugs in the first place 30 years ago -- an "awakening state of shock" . . . the protective veil of trauma induced denial being abruptly ripped away. To lift the layers of denial (protection) too quickly is something that human beings oftentimes can't survive. There is a pace required in this process. On SurvivingAntidepressants.org, we talk about it mostly in terms of reductions in milligrams of drugs. I've come to additionally understand this process in terms of inner children and an inner loving parent mutually setting a pace. Others talk about it more in the context of a higher power. Bottom line, this awakening process simply can't be rushed. 

 

So to conclude in my answer, you are already undergoing an awakening process, and your taper is a central part of this process. You have found this website, you have found ACA, and you have reached out to me as a fellow traveler. You are not isolating, you are actively seeking support in your healing / recovery process. This is a very good sign! ACA, just like this website, has helped me all along in my own awakening / tapering experience. I was doing my taper the entire time I was active in ACA recovery (until just recently when I hit zero on my taper). So yes, I personally believe the ACA program can help you too, right now, exactly where you are while tapering. And now that my taper is over and the drugs are gone from my life -- even as my brain continues to heal from the physiological damage the drugs caused -- I will continue throughout my life to experience layers of denial peeling away, and continue to become more fully-human than I've ever been. I wish the same for you as you too continue to awaken ❤️🙏

 

Elbee

Edited June 25, 2019 by elbee