kahleeb: The Journey So Far...

April 24, 2016

Thanks kahleeb. If you feel it makes you tired after you take it , you may want to move it a few hours

at a time so that you take it closer to bedtime.

Some people find it helps with the drowsiness coming on during the night - it aids sleep.

Just a thought.

April 24, 2016

Thanks kahleeb. If you feel it makes you tired after you take it , you may want to move it a few hours

at a time so that you take it closer to bedtime.

Some people find it helps with the drowsiness coming on during the night - it aids sleep.

Just a thought.

Will keep that in mind. Of course, it is 2:32 AM right now where I live and I am not tired at all on Day 6 with the dosage being upped to 2 mL (2 MG). If my body decides it wants to get tired again, after taking this medicine, I will try to move it to before I go to bed.

Also, I tried to update my signature to make it easier to read and follow what is going on with me should anyone new pop in here or if it can help with anyone in the future.

I am so thankful this forum exists. You guys have no idea how much your feedback and concern about my particular situation means to me.

April 25, 2016

Hi kahleeb, thanks for adding me as a friend. I've been reading your thread regularly. It's good to see that you have found some tools that are helping you. Wishing you all the best as we move forward on this journey.

April 25, 2016

"During this ordeal, I have had people question my faith, suggesting it isn't valid, because of how I explained the presence of the Holy Spirit has vanished after I stopped my drugs. I think people sometimes forget they need to be encouraging to others during dark times."

First of all, your faith IS valid. Secondly, were these people questioning your faith believers also? If so, I have some choice words for them which I will not utter here. I've had people tell me I have some un-repented sin that is holding me back. Ugh. IMHO, there are a lot of misunderstandings in the church and tat is one of the biggest, I'll just leave it at that. I encourage you to keep trying, keep praying, and keep talking to God. He's listening and talking to you, even though you can't hear Him right now. Even if you can't say anything except "help!", He understands and He's there, He is ALWAYS there.

April 28, 2016

"During this ordeal, I have had people question my faith, suggesting it isn't valid, because of how I explained the presence of the Holy Spirit has vanished after I stopped my drugs. I think people sometimes forget they need to be encouraging to others during dark times."

First of all, your faith IS valid. Secondly, were these people questioning your faith believers also? If so, I have some choice words for them which I will not utter here. I've had people tell me I have some un-repented sin that is holding me back. Ugh. IMHO, there are a lot of misunderstandings in the church and tat is one of the biggest, I'll just leave it at that. I encourage you to keep trying, keep praying, and keep talking to God. He's listening and talking to you, even though you can't hear Him right now. Even if you can't say anything except "help!", He understands and He's there, He is ALWAYS there.

It is really good to hear this from someone else who is going through the same thing. A cry of HELP is about all I can say to God right now. It seems that no matter who I tell, my faith is questioned at some point. I have been told that it is impossible for God's spirit to leave a believer. Maybe you weren't ever saved. Even that I will never get better because I am putting my faith in things besides God. It is all frustrating. As I mentioned in my Original Post, the Church isn't the most welcoming place to even acknowledge that depression or taking medicine is something a Christian should do in the first place. And yes, I have been told this by believers.

My church had communion this last Sunday and I told my wife that I wanted to leave. So we got up and left before communion was served to us. I have never not participated in communion in my life. But how can I partake in one of the most intimate and reflective things when I can't feel God's spirit in me and I can't even talk to Him on a daily basis?

I just hope that by going through this that I can help someone at some point. I have to keep believing that God is putting me through this for a purpose and that my testimony will be stronger when this is all done. That is, I do hope that one day I return to normal. 90 days and counting...

April 28, 2016

Update 4/27: Today is day 5 of reinstating Lexapro at a 2 mL (2 MG) dose and is day 10 overall of my Lexapro reinstatement. I noticed less positive things in what I refer to as Reinstatement Phase 2. PSSD seemed to be getting better during the first 5 days but seems to be worse in the next 5 days after that. I want the physical/emotional connection with my wife to return but it just isn’t there.

My “spiritual block” that I have discussed here so much is not any better at all. I also want this to return to normal but it hasn’t.

I am able to fall asleep most nights without any issues. But about every 2 days or so, I can’t sleep until very late. Perhaps this is still normalizing. I haven’t had to take any prescription medication or Over The Counter drug to fall asleep on any night. So that is good and a definite improvement from when I started posting here. It is also a welcome sign that my body is not overly tired all the time like it was in the first 5 days of reinstatement.

My appetite continues to be a mystery. I have to force myself to eat, I hardly ever eat a snack, and I am not losing any weight even though I am eating much better. This is frustrating. It has been almost 30 days of eating like this and some exercise but I continue to fluctuate the same 3 to 4 pounds.

Due to the Emotional Freedom Release, which I go back to tomorrow, emotions like anger, depression, guilt, and forlorn and still completely gone. This is a miracle. I don’t believe this could be a placebo effect because it has been 12 days since these emotions were “released.”

I do worry about putting this drug back in my body. Though it is a very low dose, Lexapro is much more potent than other SSRI drugs. What if I don’t ever see a difference in my emotions returning? At what point do I give up and say this isn’t working?

I know I need to remind myself that it has only been 10 days. I so desperately want to just find that magic dosage that will fix my remaining symptoms so I can get off this crazy pill the right way, 10% at a time, and be done with it forever.

April 29, 2016

Update 4/28: I went for my third Emotional Freedom Release appointment today and it was another really good appointment. I am now starting to deal with emotional baggage that isn’t related to SSRI drugs. For a refresher course—or if you aren’t even sure what Emotional Freedom Release is, check out my post http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11867-kahleeb-the-journey-so-far/#entry220420

I have continued to diffuse Essential oils that my subconscious says it wants. These include Roman Chamomile, doTerra Purify blend, and Geranium. I also continue to diffuse Lemongrass as this helps your emotions have an easier time releasing. In addition to diffusing, I take several detox baths every week with these same oils in it.

For those of you who are curious, the Detox Bath formula is:

2 Cups Epsom Salt

1 Cup Baking Soda

1/3 Cup Hydrogen Peroxide

Your choice of Essential Oils.

Mix up in a bowl and let sit a few minutes while you prepare the hottest bath you can lie down in.

Pour the mixture into the bath once you have it filled up.

Stay in for 20 minutes

The Detox baths for me have become a great time for processing the emotions I am dealing with in Emotional Freedom Release sessions. I also can listen to myself bring up things that I “willingly release.”

Previously, I was able to successfully release, in my second session, Anger, Guilt, Forlorn, and Depression. The Anger and Depression emotions being lifted were definitely “game changers” for me and the symptoms I have been experiencing. since they were released, they have not resurfaced. This session, we uncovered the following emotions that wanted to be released: Taken for Granted, Anxiety, Hatred, Rejection, Failure, and Low Self Esteem.

During the session, that was supposed to only last 45 minutes, we went on and on for an hour and a half and were able to release all six of these emotions. My subconscious also said it wanted me to use Birch and Grapefruit Essential Oils.

I go back again on May 17. This is the same day I go back to that specialized Massage Therapist who told me my brain was inflamed. That same week, I go back to the Naturopath—on May 20. But back to the Emotional Freedom Release… this is helping me so much that I made an appointment for my wife to go as well.

Emotionally drained after this day.

April 29, 2016

Update 4/27: Today is day 5 of reinstating Lexapro at a 2 mL (2 MG) dose and is day 10 overall of my Lexapro reinstatement. I noticed less positive things in what I refer to as Reinstatement Phase 2. PSSD seemed to be getting better during the first 5 days but seems to be worse in the next 5 days after that. I want the physical/emotional connection with my wife to return but it just isn’t there.

My “spiritual block” that I have discussed here so much is not any better at all. I also want this to return to normal but it hasn’t.

I am able to fall asleep most nights without any issues. But about every 2 days or so, I can’t sleep until very late. Perhaps this is still normalizing. I haven’t had to take any prescription medication or Over The Counter drug to fall asleep on any night. So that is good and a definite improvement from when I started posting here. It is also a welcome sign that my body is not overly tired all the time like it was in the first 5 days of reinstatement.

My appetite continues to be a mystery. I have to force myself to eat, I hardly ever eat a snack, and I am not losing any weight even though I am eating much better. This is frustrating. It has been almost 30 days of eating like this and some exercise but I continue to fluctuate the same 3 to 4 pounds.

Due to the Emotional Freedom Release, which I go back to tomorrow, emotions like anger, depression, guilt, and forlorn and still completely gone. This is a miracle. I don’t believe this could be a placebo effect because it has been 12 days since these emotions were “released.”

I do worry about putting this drug back in my body. Though it is a very low dose, Lexapro is much more potent than other SSRI drugs. What if I don’t ever see a difference in my emotions returning? At what point do I give up and say this isn’t working?

I know I need to remind myself that it has only been 10 days. I so desperately want to just find that magic dosage that will fix my remaining symptoms so I can get off this crazy pill the right way, 10% at a time, and be done with it forever.

Highlighted above is a questions that I have been wondering and my wife has asked me as well. At what point do I give up on reinstatement fixing my remaining symptoms? Perhaps I haven't found the correct thread or the question may not be addressed generally on these forums. Also, if it is determined reinstatement won't help me, how quickly do people cease the medication they reinstated?

I am very curious to get feedback from Fresh or someone else on this.

April 30, 2016

Hi Kahleeb. It sounds like you had some improvements with some of your symptoms. A turn around in your sleep patterns , is very helpful as well as the fact that your anger and depression are totally gone. This is substantial , and can't be underestimated in terms of stabilizing. I think it shows promise and I would continue on with the reinstatement , but give it much longer. As your nervous system has had many changes, and is struggling to reach homeostasis/ balance, it would perhaps be wise to hold for a few months , if you feel you are tolerating it well ,and having minimal symptoms. It's a case of listening to your body , more so than looking at the calendar.

After a period of time, when you are feeling very stable you could taper off very slowly, using the 10% taper method, or you might decide to go even slower than that , as some here do .

I was a little unclear ,as to whether you were totally off the Lorazepam , or if you still take it occasionally .

Your question about emotions, is very hard to predict . Everybody is so different in the time taken to heal . It is very much a windows and waves pattern of healing . You will probably find it's a case of two steps forward, one step back , but gradually improving.

These links might help to explain it more clearly :

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

This one gives a good overview of the dynamics of recovery :

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery/

I hope this helps you to understand a little more of the process.

Ali

April 30, 2016

Hi Kahleeb. It sounds like you had some improvements with some of your symptoms. A turn around in your sleep patterns , is very helpful as well as the fact that your anger and depression are totally gone. This is substantial , and can't be underestimated in terms of stabilizing. I think it shows promise and I would continue on with the reinstatement , but give it much longer. As your nervous system has had many changes, and is struggling to reach homeostasis/ balance, it would perhaps be wise to hold for a few months , if you feel you are tolerating it well ,and having minimal symptoms. It's a case of listening to your body , more so than looking at the calendar.

After a period of time, when you are feeling very stable you could taper off very slowly, using the 10% taper method, or you might decide to go even slower than that , as some here do .

I was a little unclear ,as to whether you were totally off the Lorazepam , or if you still take it occasionally .

Your question about emotions, is very hard to predict . Everybody is so different in the time taken to heal . It is very much a windows and waves pattern of healing . You will probably find it's a case of two steps forward, one step back , but gradually improving.

These links might help to explain it more clearly :

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

This one gives a good overview of the dynamics of recovery :

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery/

I hope this helps you to understand a little more of the process.

Ali

Thanks for your reply, Ali, and I really appreciate the time and links. I guess where I am coming from is that I am finding almost all withdrawal symptoms have been taken care through other means--mainly because of Emotional Freedom Release--with the exception of this "Spiritual Block" I am encountering and this lack of a "Physical/Emotional" connection with my wife while we are intimate.

The Spiritual Block can be summed up by saying: I cannot feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in my life. Talking to God is like shouting in an empty room and hearing your voice echo back. I cannot sit in a church service and feel the spirit of believers around me. I have no desire to get up and sing praises. I cannot pray or read my Bible. I force myself to go to church and I sit there as some type of outsider. This is completely out of character for me and not who I was prior to the medication stopping on January 27, 2016. I have had the presence of God in my life since I was 5 and became a Christian. It is like part of my brain has been disconnected that can do these things.

For those of you who aren't believers, this may not make sense to you.

The Physical/Emotional connection is equally troubling. I have no connection to my wife during sex at all. Again, it is like part of my brain has been disconnected. Sex offers no enjoyment. There is no pleasure with it. So there are definitely numerous PSSD issues going on. I have looked at various places for support with this and not finding anything but despair, lack of hope, and confession that sex will never be the same again. These places include those recommended here too.

I have thought, over the past 3 months, that whatever parts of the brain handle intimacy and spiritual matters may be closely connected. I have nothing to back this up though.

I only chose to reinstate my Lexapro to help with these two issues. My hope was that by giving my body some of the medication again that whatever part of my brain has been shut off would start working again. If it doesn't resolve one, the other, or both of these issues, I am afraid I am wasting my time and energy and potentially putting my body at a greater risk of future withdrawals and a longer process of getting off the medication again. That is why I am seeking clarification on what dose I should go up to before waiving the white flag of defeat that this won't help my particular situation. I also wonder if my body wants/needs both the Lexapro and Abilify to help with this too.

Really confused and appreciate all the advice I can get.

May 3, 2016

Update 5/3: Yesterday was day 5 of reinstating Lexapro at a 3 mL (3 MG) dose and was day 15 overall of my Lexapro reinstatement. I haven’t really noticed any changes at all in what I refer to as Reinstatement Phase 3. Side effects of PSSD—including an emotional/physical connection during intimacy—and what I refer to as “spiritual block” still exist the same as in prior Reinstatement Phases.

Today I plan on reinstating at 4 mL (4 MG) dose of a homemade liquid solution of Lexapro. As I stated in other posts, the only reason I am reinstating Lexapro is to help with the above symptoms.

Questions and doubts that this is what I should be doing still remain. I wonder how far down the road of increasing my dosage should I go before calling it quits and realizing this isn’t going to work for me?

May 3, 2016

Kahleeb. I would hold at 3mg for now and give your nervous system time to stabilize a little. You have had many changes , in a short period of time and now need some stability. Continuing to increase the dose is not going to give you that. By holding , you give your system time to adjust .

This won't necessarily "fix" your symptoms, but it might help to lessen some of them . Sometimes you have to be patient and allow time itself, to do it's work.

This might help to explain it a little better:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

May 3, 2016

Hello, kahleeb.

Please do not continue to increase your Lexapro dosage to alleviate PSSD or any other withdrawal symptom. It is better to take less than more, which could cause big problems for you, including causing sleeplessness.

If I were you, I'd back down ASAP to 2mg Lexapro to give it time and see what it does.

You were very sleepy when taking 1mg. What is your sleep pattern now? At what time of day do you take 3mg? How do you feel before you take it and after you take it? Are you sleepy at times during the day?

Please keep track of your daily symptom pattern and dosing on paper for a while, and let us know how you are doing. This is important.

Even if you are stabilizing, symptoms can come and go for months, see The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization It can take a long time for symptoms, including PSSD, to fade.

The emotional or spiritual anesthesia that troubles you so much is both a very common side effect of psychiatric drugs and a withdrawal symptom (as is PSSD). Keep exercising your spirituality as much as you can. It is there but you cannot feel it. It will very gradually come back. You may wish to participate in this forum Finding meaning

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

Are you taking any other drugs?

May 4, 2016

Kahleeb. I would hold at 3mg for now and give your nervous system time to stabilize a little. You have had many changes , in a short period of time and now need some stability. Continuing to increase the dose is not going to give you that. By holding , you give your system time to adjust .

This won't necessarily "fix" your symptoms, but it might help to lessen some of them . Sometimes you have to be patient and allow time itself, to do it's work.

This might help to explain it a little better:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

Thank you for this feedback. I will make a comment about the 3 MG dose below, after Alto's comment.

Hello, kahleeb.

Please do not continue to increase your Lexapro dosage to alleviate PSSD or any other withdrawal symptom. It is better to take less than more, which could cause big problems for you, including causing sleeplessness.

If I were you, I'd back down ASAP to 2mg Lexapro to give it time and see what it does.

You were very sleepy when taking 1mg. What is your sleep pattern now? At what time of day do you take 3mg? How do you feel before you take it and after you take it? Are you sleepy at times during the day?

Please keep track of your daily symptom pattern and dosing on paper for a while, and let us know how you are doing. This is important.

Even if you are stabilizing, symptoms can come and go for months, see The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization It can take a long time for symptoms, including PSSD, to fade.

The emotional or spiritual anesthesia that troubles you so much is both a very common side effect of psychiatric drugs and a withdrawal symptom (as is PSSD). Keep exercising your spirituality as much as you can. It is there but you cannot feel it. It will very gradually come back. You may wish to participate in this forum Finding meaning

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

Are you taking any other drugs?

Thank you for your comment as well Alto.

Regarding the sleepiness, this went away as I moved from 1 MG to 2 MG. While I am sleepier than I used to be, it only normally impacts me at night. I am not finding myself falling asleep, or even wanting to go to sleep, normally during the day. Some nights, I find that I can fall asleep as early as 8 PM. Probably 4 to 5 nights a week, I have to finally just force myself to lie down and go to bed. If I am not tired and fall asleep at night, I try to force myself at least by 1 AM. If I fall asleep at 8 PM or 9 PM, I normally will wake up, in the middle of the night, and then go back to sleep again within 30 minutes or an hour.

I take my dose of homemade Liquid Lexapro in the mornings between 9 AM and 10 AM. I feel the same as I have been feeling since I originally ceased the Lexapro back on January 27, 2016. I am not a morning person normally as it is. I notice nothing after taking the Lexapro. The only time I ever noticed something was during the first 5 days on the 1 MG dose.

I have been using this thread as my diary and I have been trying to update it whenever something new happens. I want to not only share with you, and others on this board, how things are going--but I hope that my story can help someone else in the future. God has to have put this in my life for a reason.

PSSD is very frustrating for me. Especially for someone that has always had a very strong sexual appetite. Losing the desire to be intimate or attracted to my wife along with the loss of pleasure during sex is only made worse when I don't feel "emotionally or physically" connected to my wife during this intimate time. We are very open and talk about these things so she is quite frustrated that she can't fulfill this need for me even though she knows it isn't her fault. I find myself trying to find ways to "connect" to my wife. But it isn't filling this huge void that is left.

Religion is equally important and this "spiritual block" or spiritual anesthesia as you called it is another very difficult thing for me. I can't worship the God I have served my entire life. It is like His presence has been cut out of my life. This impacts going to church, trying to explain this to other believers, reading my Bible, and praying. I will definitely look through the "Finding Meaning" forum. It is like all of this religion is just empty words. I know they mean more than that but I can't "experience it" or "feel it." We attend a fairly large church in Denton, TX known as Denton Bible Church. I have never experienced anything like this, spiritually, in all my life.

Besides Spiritual Block, lack of Emotional/Physical connection to my wife, and other Symptoms of PSSD, most of my W/D symptoms seem to be fixed by the Emotional Freedom Release sessions I have been doing. I am just going to go over the list:

Anger? Depression? Both are Gone.They haven't been an issue since my second Emotional Freedom Release Session. (I posted about this in an earlier reply.)
Headaches? Gone.
Insomnia? Much Improved and not taking Lorazepam to sleep anymore.
Appetite? Still have to force myself to eat at most meals.
Hand Tremors and Leg Tremors still seem to be an intermittent issue.
Concentrating and Remembering things still seems to be an issue but I think this is related to being told my brain was inflamed due to medication or a prior injury by my Specialized Massage Therapist. I posted about this in an earlier reply.
My personality seems to be different and lack of compassion is about the same from when I first began posting but I think this has to due with not being able to feel the Holy Spirit in my life with the above-mentioned "Spiritual block" or spiritual anesthesia.

You asked what medications I am currently taking. I am trying to make sure I keep my Signature updated with this information. Medication, Supplements, and Diet information includes:

Medication--Homemade Liquid Lexapro 4 MG (I started this dose on 5/3), Propranolol 40 MG (for Social Anxiety issues. I posted about reinstating it in an earlier reply and is in my signature.)

Supplements--Fish Oil, Vitamin D, Methyl-SP K-14 (Mainly a B Vitamin Blend), GlutaShield, Desbio Serotonin, & Desbio Comprehensive Detox.

Diet--Currently Eating Gluten, Dairy, Soy, & High Fructose Corn Syrup free and Paleo Style.

So where do we go from here? I definitely value your opinions and don't want to keep putting more Lexapro in my body than I need to. My goal is to get off it forever. Also, I am only reinstating to mainly get rid of Spiritual Block, lack of Emotional/Physical connection to my wife, and other Symptoms of PSSD. I have taken my first dose of 4 MG Homemade Liquid Lexapro on 5/3. Alto, you are recommending that I drop to 2 MG and Ali recommends 3 MG. Which should I do? Fresh, in earlier posts, seemed to indicate if I keep upping it every 5 days that I would either run into adverse reactions or find some relief in symptoms.

How long should I stay on this dose to see if anything improves?

What if nothing seems to improve?

Is reinstating such a low amount of Lexapro even beneficial in stopping the major W/D symptoms I am concerned with in Spiritual Block, lack of Emotional/Physical connection to my wife, and other Symptoms of PSSD?

At what point do I begin to taper?

I value your feedback and opinions. This forum has been so helpful to me. Also, if it wasn't for the Emotional Freedom Release sessions, I don't honestly know if I would still be here. That is how bad things were for me and that is how amazing the transformation in me it made.

May 4, 2016

Hey Kahleeb,

Not to confuse the matter further - but - did you notice any difference between 2 mg and your current dose?

If not, then Alto's suggestion to go back to 2 mg, is wise. All of the symptoms you report are sadly, normal in withdrawal. Bouncing your doses around can be destabilizing and extend your symptoms longer. Once you are at a tolerable place you need to hold for at least a month, if not longer. That is what Ali was referring to.

We can't really choose your dose for you. If you want to stay at 4, you will have to taper from 4. If you go back to 2, you will have less taper time, but may have more symptoms, as you haven't been at 2 mg for 10 days. This is why Ali suggested 3 mg.

The hard part is deciding what you can tolerate, because the symptoms will change with every dose change.

Your naturopath is also making changes too quickly, and your brain has not had time to adjust. A long hold will benefit you to see what your base symptoms are, and you can consider further adjustment from there.

PSSD, unfortunately takes a long time to clear, and might even be tied in to your spiritual circuit which is blocked right now. Please be patient and kind and gentle with yourself at this time

May 4, 2016

Hey Kahleeb,

Not to confuse the matter further - but - did you notice any difference between 2 mg and your current dose?

If not, then Alto's suggestion to go back to 2 mg, is wise. All of the symptoms you report are sadly, normal in withdrawal. Bouncing your doses around can be destabilizing and extend your symptoms longer. Once you are at a tolerable place you need to hold for at least a month, if not longer. That is what Ali was referring to.

We can't really choose your dose for you. If you want to stay at 4, you will have to taper from 4. If you go back to 2, you will have less taper time, but may have more symptoms, as you haven't been at 2 mg for 10 days. This is why Ali suggested 3 mg.

The hard part is deciding what you can tolerate, because the symptoms will change with every dose change.

Your naturopath is also making changes too quickly, and your brain has not had time to adjust. A long hold will benefit you to see what your base symptoms are, and you can consider further adjustment from there.

PSSD, unfortunately takes a long time to clear, and might even be tied in to your spiritual circuit which is blocked right now. Please be patient and kind and gentle with yourself at this time

Thank you for your response. I agree with the thinking that whatever part of my brain is causing PSSD is also causing this "Spiritual Block." The scary part is that I keep reading about PSSD symptoms taking years to go away. Sometimes 5 or more years. If people get better, the large majority say it isn't ever the same and usually 60% better than it was. Does that also mean that my Spiritual Block will only be somewhat better if it ever gets better? Without God, life is pretty pointless. Also, with the PSSD symptoms destroying my sex life and intimacy, marriage is turned into more of a roommate relationship than the fulfilling and satisfying portrait of Christ (The Groom) and the Church (the Bride) as is described in the Bible.

Regarding the doses, I didn't really notice a difference on any of the doses. During the 1 MG 5 day period, Reinstatement Phase 1, I was initially more tired all the time. This was a picture of what life was like when I was on 20 MG Lexapro until I quit the drug back on January 27, 2016. As I have progressed to 2 MG, 3 MG, and now 4 MG, I don't notice any changes at all. I honestly feel I could just quit the drug tomorrow with no adverse effects.

I am not scared of a long taper. I am fearful of not getting to the right dose or not knowing at what point to raise the white flag and admit that reinstatement won't fix the issues I seek help from: Spiritual Block, emotional/physical connection with my wife, and other PSSD symptoms. Again, I agree with the thinking that these issues could all be from the same part of the brain.

Regarding the Naturopath comment: "Your naturopath is also making changes too quickly, and your brain has not had time to adjust." I am not sure that I follow what you mean. I have seen the naturopath only once back on April 1. She can't legally ask me to stop taking prescription medication but she strongly hinted at me stopping the Propranolol and Lorazepam. I learned since then that stopping the Propranolol was a mistake and I have started retaking it. (My social anxiety is a separate issue that I don't know what to do with at this time.) The Lorazepam was something I wasn't in favor of stopping until the first reply to this thread warned me about. Other than this, she confirmed that I should continue with my Fish Oil and put me on the other supplements listed in my signature and on this specialized diet to help detox my body. I don't see her again until May 20, but I am fairly certain she would be very against any type of reinstatement of Lexapro. I wouldn't let her opinion stop me from trying it, if it was recommended as something that could have a chance of helping.

Back to reinstatement, it seems that there is some differing opinions on this. Ali suggesting staying at 3 MG for a while, Alto suggesting to stay at 2 MG for some time, and Fresh suggesting that I up 1 MG every 5 days until there is an adverse reaction or an improvement in symptoms. I am completely at a loss for what to do. I do value all the opinions on my particular situation and understand that there may not be one single right answer because each person is unique in what symptoms they have, how they react to the medication, and how their particular circumstances got them to this point. I just want to get to the right dose to fix this because my marriage isn't a marriage with PSSD and my life has no meaning or purpose without the presence of God in my life.

May 4, 2016

Hey Kahleeb -

I'm getting ready to fly out of my country tonight - so sadly, I do not have time to go into all of these things.

I greatly appreciate that you have been very careful thus far, and followed instructions faithfully.

I cannot really address how you got here - I can really only address where you are now.

You are now at 4 mg for 1 day, having taken 3 mg for 5 days, and on 2 mg for 5 days before that, with a Cold Turkey (CT) in January.

Your symptoms seemed to improve when you went from 1 mg to 2 mg. There really is no "magic dose" that works, not even on an individual level.

Reinstating is very individual. Fresh was looking to find a spot where you "felt better" enough to stay there. Ali and Alto were worried that moving your dose too much will not address the symptoms that were caused by your CT, and Alto sounded concerned that too much of the drug will add to your symptoms. And we don't want to increase your symptoms!

You are young, please take the internet with a grain of salt. The people who post on the web are mostly people who suffer. The ones who get better are out there laughing and dancing and loving, and don't have time for the internet. You are young, and you are careful (thank you for that) - you will get better, but you will need patience, persistence, and gentle lovingkindness for yourself as you heal.

The short answer is: choose the dose that you felt best on, and stay there for 1-3 months. Whether that is 2 mg, 3 mg, 4 mg. Then we can re-assess what your "base withdrawal" state is, and consider your options for tapering.

I am very sorry for any confusion you may have suffered. This is scientific (reinstating the drug that your body has been used to) - but I am not in your body, feeling your symptoms. You are.

I can guess that the 4 mg probably feels much the same as the 2 mg - but only you know for sure. Ali's suggestion of 3 mg was an excellent compromise, if you cannot decide.

As for God - I am a lucky one, my spiritual sense is returning to me in full blossom; it started coming back about halfway through my taper. I wish I had more time to talk about it, but we have a forum on Finding Meaning, where people find what works for them.

It's good to meet you Kahleeb, and again, I'm sorry if there was confusion. The decision is yours to make; we can only make suggestions.

May 4, 2016

I'm sorry (again) I need to emphasize -

reinstatement only eases CT withdrawal symptoms. It does not cure them. It improves the worst, takes the edge off, so that you can function and live your life.

If you are working, eating, sleeping, and not thrashing around in physical, mental or emotional anguish - if you are just "blunted," then you are actually in pretty good shape for having survived a cold turkey.

I don't mean to diminish your very real symptoms here, just emphasizing that if you are basically functioning, you probably can raise the white flag and hold.

Please do not discontinue your reinstatement. You are not reacting badly to it (you aren't having akathisia or overstimulation or insomnia, or any of the other signs that it is going poorly) and it will protect you from some of the symptoms of CT withdrawal - which could take months to resolve.

May 4, 2016

kahlee, I know this is confusing. I'm sorry for the mixed messages.

Please do not try to get back to a "sweet spot" with the Lexapro regarding the PSSD and emotional anesthesia. As these both can be side effects of the drug, even though you did not have them when you were taking the full dose, an increased dose can be prolonging these symptoms rather than resolving them.

The best that you can expect from reinstatement is that some withdrawal symptoms are alleviated quickly. With stability, the others will very, very gradually resolve.

These drugs are very strong. The Lexapro changed the way your nervous system behaves. Going off Lexapro changed it again. It's not elastic, it doesn't bounce back to its pre-drug state, it changes and adapts continuously. It went through a shock with withdrawal syndrome, developing new adaptations such as PSSD and emotional anesthesia, and now it has to stabilize by adapting to a tiny dose.

Hopefully, stabilizing with a very small amount of Lexapro as a crutch for now will help your nervous system to recover from cold turkey. This will be very gradual and frustrating. You will need to be patient. You will need to cope with the remaining withdrawal symptoms of PSSD, emotional anesthesia, and tremors. Please read The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

We can't predict what amount of reinstatement will "work." That is why Fresh suggested starting very low and gradually increasing. However, you seemed to do well with 1mg or 2mg Lexapro, so increasing was not necessary.

But we don't want to trigger more symptoms with more changes. (I thought you had just gone from 2mg to 3mg; that is why I suggested going back to 2mg.) As you've only just increased to 4mg, if I were you, I'd go back to 3mg.

May 4, 2016

Thank you both to JanCarol and Alto for the responses. I am mostly confused because this is what Fresh had told me before:

"Posted 17 April 2016 - 06:42 PM

If you feel no difference after 5 days , you can continue to increase by 1 mg at a time until you do. At some point , you'll either get symptom relief , or unpleasant side-effects from taking more than your body can metabolize. Some people notice a positive effect within hours.

So it's not possible to keep increasing without any effect. Any dose that brings relief that's lower than 20 mg is a bonus.

Once you feel your symptoms are tolerable , we suggest staying on that dose for a good 2 or 3 months (longer if you prefer) to allow your cns to recover and strengthen"

I am not getting any symptom relief so my thinking was to follow this and keep increasing until I did see it. Are you suggesting that I will not see any symptom relief from either PSSD or "emotional anesthesia" by reinstating in the short-term? These are the only two symptoms that I am trying to get relief from by reinstating.

If there is no relief for me in the short-term, am I just sticking with whatever dose I settle on (2 MG, 3 MG, or 4 MG) until I see a relief from PSSD or "emotional anesthesia"?

If this is long-term, how long would you say I will be taking this before my Central Nervous System (CNS) starts to heal? I am trying to get an idea if this is months, years, multiple years, etc.

Also, if this is long-term, what difference does it make if I am on a low reinstatement dose or if I am not taking the Lexapro at all?

Thanks again for all the help. Just trying to fully understand this so I can be prepared for how to approach this situation.

May 4, 2016

What is your current symptom pattern now? Have you had no change at all since you reinstated?

May 4, 2016

What is your current symptom pattern now? Have you had no change at all since you reinstated?

I am not really noticing anything at all different from when I started reinstatement until now except I was overly sleepy during the first 5 days and that went away. I am guessing my body needed a slight adjustment period there.

As difficult as it may be to believe, my depression, anger, and several other emotions have been cured by this Emotional Freedom Release. This is more than a placebo effect because it has been several weeks without any of those negative emotions returning. In addition, I have been learning how to deal with these emotions as they come up so they can't "infest my body" again. These emotions were major issues I was encountering and only occurred as a W/D from stopping Lexapro like I was instructed to do by my Psychiatrist. (I have a link to what this Emotional Freedom Release is in my signature.)

I am currently on Day 2 of 4 mL (4 MG) Lexapro

Current Symptoms include:

PSSD Symptoms including lack of feeling or pleasure during sex or climax. There is no physical/emotional connection to my wife during this time.
Spiritual Block or Spiritual Amnesia as you called it.
Loss of Appetite. I have to force myself to eat at least 2 out of 3 meals 95+% of the time.
I don't get tired around 4 nights a week and just have to force myself to go to bed. The other 3 Nights of the week, I can want to go to bed as early as 8 PM. I am able to stay asleep or fall back asleep if I wake up in either case.
Hand Tremors and Leg Tremors still seem to be an intermittent issue. I seem to only notice this at night if I am going to play Computer Games and is annoying but not high on my list of concerns.
Concentrating and Remembering things still is an issue
My personality seems to be different and lack general compassion for others.

Thanks again for offering your advice.

May 4, 2016

kahleeb, I'm sorry to hear that finding an acceptable reinstatement dose has been such a challenge and that you're not getting the results you'd like.

I want to share my experience with a very knowledgeable & skilled naturopath: While on Effexor 13 years ago, I did a naturopath-supervised detox that was very, very powerful. It was too powerful for me and after about 6 weeks I stopped. In retrospect, I see that I could have called or met with the ND to discuss my feeling of being out of control and ask him what supplements to adjust to slow things down.

Just a thought: Your naturopathic detox since April 1 may be a complicating or confounding factor in this. Have you talked with your ND about your symptoms?

May 4, 2016

kahleeb, I'm sorry to hear that finding an acceptable reinstatement dose has been such a challenge and that you're not getting the results you'd like.

I want to share my experience with a very knowledgeable & skilled naturopath: While on Effexor 13 years ago, I did a naturopath-supervised detox that was very, very powerful. It was too powerful for me and after about 6 weeks I stopped. In retrospect, I see that I could have called or met with the ND to discuss my feeling of being out of control and ask him what supplements to adjust to slow things down.

Just a thought: Your naturopathic detox since April 1 may be a complicating or confounding factor in this. Have you talked with your ND about your symptoms?

Thanks for the response, scallywag. I have put a few messages into the Naturopath but the only response I am getting back is that I need to stay the course and keep doing what they are suggesting. A few other people in the office, the Emotional Freedom Release, and the Specialized Massage Therapist, know about the reinstatement. However, the Naturopath does not know about my reinstatement and I don't think she would be in favor of it from what little I know about her and her feelings on prescription medication. I see her again on May 20 and it is really hard to get appointments with her as she is very booked.

I don't know if the detox or things I am doing are too powerful. In some ways, I have never felt better. My body is responding to the diet, detox, and supplements well. My mind is not. Again, I hate to keep repeating myself, but lets look at the Current Symptoms I have again:

PSSD Symptoms including lack of feeling or pleasure during sex or climax. There is no physical/emotional connection to my wife during this time.
Spiritual Block or Spiritual Amnesia as Alto calls it.
Loss of Appetite. I have to force myself to eat at least 2 out of 3 meals 95+% of the time.
I don't get tired around 4 nights a week and just have to force myself to go to bed. The other 3 Nights of the week, I can want to go to bed as early as 8 PM. I am able to stay asleep or fall back asleep if I wake up in either case.
Hand Tremors and Leg Tremors still seem to be an intermittent issue. I seem to only notice this at night if I am going to play Computer Games and is annoying but not high on my list of concerns.
Concentrating and Remembering things still is an issue
My personality seems to be different and lack general compassion for others.

I would probably say having Emotions like Depression and Anger being removed from you, due to Emotional Freedom Release, would probably have a bigger impact on why I may not be seeing any changes trying to reinstate the Lexapro. I mean, what happens to a non-depressed person when they take a SSRI anti-depressant like Lexapro? How can I see my anger issues get better when all the anger has been sapped out of my body?

May 4, 2016

What exactly is your detox regimen, kahlee?

Are you getting sleepy on alternate nights?

Please include the time you take your drugs and their dosage in your daily symptom record, also exactly when you get tremors or when you get sleepy, etc. I would expect each day's symptom pattern to be different, rather than the general one you've posted.

I would have thought the initial sleepiness from 1mg was an advantage. So often, sleeplessness is a very grueling withdrawal symptom.

As I said before, emotional and sexual anesthesia is a common side effect of the drugs as well as withdrawal. Many people find this very distressing. Taking more Lexapro rather than less can prolong or intensify this effect.

May 4, 2016

What exactly is your detox regimen, kahlee?

Are you getting sleepy on alternate nights?

Please include the time you take your drugs and their dosage in your daily symptom record, also exactly when you get tremors or when you get sleepy, etc. I would expect each day's symptom pattern to be different, rather than the general one you've posted.

I would have thought the initial sleepiness from 1mg was an advantage. So often, sleeplessness is a very grueling withdrawal symptom.

As I said before, emotional and sexual anesthesia is a common side effect of the drugs as well as withdrawal. Many people find this very distressing. Taking more Lexapro rather than less can prolong or intensify this effect.

I will start a spreadsheet for exact times I take everything and specific things I am feeling/dealing with on each day. I have been Updating things every 5 days or when I go to a particular appointment.

My Detox regimen starts with my Diet. I am eating Paleo Style with no Dairy. Gluten Free. Soy Free. High Fructose Corn Syrup Free. I am also drinking a ton of water. At least 110 ounces a day. In a separate bottle of water, with 40 oz in it, I mix it 90 drops, from 3 different bottles, of DesBio Comprehensive Detox. The kit contains 6 bottles and you alternate between the first 3 bottles (for 3 days) and then the next 3 bottles (for 4 days). Then start over again. You sip the 40 oz bottle with the homeopathic detox drops and finish it by the end of the day. I have a second water bottle with normal filtered water that I drink normally.

I start trying to get my breakfast and take supplements between 9 AM and 10 AM. I take my second round of supplements before I go to bed . The second round can be earlier in the evening, around 8 PM when the kids go to sleep, or as late as 2 AM. If I fall asleep early one night, I usually wake up around 12 to 2 AM and then I will take the second round of supplements.

As far as the sleep goes, I struggled with insomnia since I stopped the Lexapro back on 1/27/16. That is when I was prescribed Lorazepam 1 MG to help me sleep. I stopped that around 4/16/16 with no adverse side effects except a headache that went away about 7/8 days later. This is included in previous posts and my signature.

The falling asleep early isn't happening as often in the last week. And it isn't anything as simple as one night sleepy and one night not sleepy.

My daily symptom pattern is exactly as I have stated it here. Since the Emotional Freedom Release sessions, I don't deal with these negative emotions in my life that were caused from W/D. Since that has happened, it has remained the same no matter what dosage of Lexapro I am on or if I wasn't on it. I will make the list again below and point out what doesn't appear everyday:

PSSD Symptoms including lack of feeling or pleasure during sex or climax. There is no physical/emotional connection to my wife during this time. [Everytime my wife and me have sex. I have no desire to really initiate it other than to see if the symptoms have improved. This is exactly the opposite of what I used to be.]
Spiritual Block or Spiritual Amnesia as Alto calls it. [Daily occurrence with no relief]
Loss of Appetite. I have to force myself to eat at least 2 out of 3 meals 95+% of the time. [There might be a day out of the week where I am hungry for two meals. But I force myself to eat daily.]
I don't get tired around 4 nights a week and just have to force myself to go to bed. The other 3 Nights of the week, I can want to go to bed as early as 8 PM. I am able to stay asleep or fall back asleep if I wake up in either case. [The time I actually go to bed varies and the length to get to sleep can as well. I will get specific with this in the spreadsheet.]
Hand Tremors and Leg Tremors still seem to be an intermittent issue. I seem to only notice this at night if I am going to play Computer Games and is annoying but not high on my list of concerns. [i don't notice this everyday. I will include this in the spreadsheet when it occurs from now on but for now I would say 1 to 2 times a week I notice this.]
Concentrating and Remembering things still is an issue [Daily issue.]
My personality seems to be different and lack general compassion for others. [Daily issue.]

So I will start that spreadsheet for today and make note of anything that has happened today. Do you want me to post updates on that normally here or just as it is asked by someone? Also, what are you feelings on what I should do with the Lexapro reinstatement? I take that dose in the morning, somewhere between 9 AM and 10 AM.

May 4, 2016

kahleeb:

It's so clear from your posts that you're concerned about your inability to connect the way you have previously in the two most important relationships in your life. I wish I had answers for you -- I'd be a gazillionaire diving into pools filled with Benjamins, assuming big pharma didn't catch me first.

From all I can tell, there has been insufficient study of psychotropic discontinuation syndrome. Heck, my prescribing psychiatrist told me that choosing a drug to address a psychiatric complaint is a process of trial and error. They just don't know which drug to give us, let alone how we'll react to increasing dose or to discontinuing. We're left to figure it out while functioning at less than our best. We're all doing little n=1 experiments bumbling around and stumbling in the dark while those with the money to investigate and help pretend that we and our problems don't exist. To understate the situation, it's sub-optimal. To be blunt and semi-vulgar, it sucks.

Given what people have posted on these forums about surviving anti-depressants and going off them, I'm hoping you'll see something in this list:

4 months ago stopped Abilify daily dose cold-turkey and
4 months ago stopped Lexapro daily dose, essentiallly cold-turkey (20mg to 0mg in 2-3 weeks).
5 weeks ago started a homeopathic detox
5 weeks ago changed your diet to Paleo
3 weeks ago stopped Lorazepam daily dose cold turkey

Others have commented on the fact that you're young. Despite the resilience advantage you have over some of us older folk, this could still be a lot of change from which your body, especially brain and rest of the CNS, is recovering. Any one of these changes on its own could be a MAJOR BIG DEAL. I really hope that you find the solution to stabilizing these and other symptoms, then reducing and eliminating them, and finally being well in all ways. I'll be wishing you patience as this process unfolds.

May 4, 2016

Thank you for that excellent summary, scallywag.

Yes, going on and off psychiatric drugs can be very wearing on the autonomic nervous system. It tries to adapt to every change, and eventually gets confused and unable to manage things. The ANS governs sexual function, sleep, digestion -- just about everything your body does. When it is stressed from many drug adventures, a harsh withdrawal can send it into a dysfunctional state.

From your earlier posts, kahleeb, it seems you started EFR in mid-April? And you started 1mg Lexapro at the same time?

This is what's known as a confounding factor. Either the EFR or the Lexapro might have reduced your withdrawal symptoms. While I very strongly believe EFR and other therapeutic techniques can help reduce the distress of withdrawal and unravel old emotional knots, I think it was the Lexapro that helped relieve your rage -- which can be a withdrawal symptom.

The timeframe is about right, too, since it takes about 4 days for a drug change to fully register in the body.

I do not believe the homeopathic detox regime will hurt you, but I'd like to caution you: Cleansing the body of impurities is a naturopathic article of faith. When you have withdrawal syndrome, you are not suffering from an excess of impurities in the body, it is nervous system dysfunction caused by an actual physiological change in the nerves. See What is withdrawal syndrome?

Withdrawal syndrome is caused not by the presence of anything but the absence of the drug, around which your nerves have shaped themselves. In fact, while tapering we try to slow the exit of the drug from the body, not to rush it out in detoxification, so the nervous system can gradually adapt to the change.

The naturopathic philosophy of detox for any condition is at odds with the logic of withdrawal syndrome. Besides, sometimes the chemicals used are harsh -- but the homeopathic regimen, if it truly is homeopathically diluted, probably won't hurt you (or, in my opinion, help you).

On the other hand, a paleo diet contains lots of vegetables and protein, which are good nutrients for healing, and we think of that as constructive (but not required) for healing. We urge everyone to eat lots of veggies and eliminate junk food, sugar, artificial flavorings, and minimize caffeine.

Back to your dosing. I am concerned that your sleep pattern might indicate 3-4mg Lexapro is too much for you. Please record your symptom pattern every day, with times of symptoms, sleep, etc. so we can see what's happening. Please do not increase Lexapro any more. (If it's been only a couple of days on 4mg, if I were you, I'd go back to 3mg just in case. Keep notes of any changes in symptoms after any drug change.)

Also, it might be a very good idea for you to avoid using the computer late at night -- the light counteracts your natural sleep hormones. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems particularly TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

Sleep is healing and very important in recovery from withdrawal syndrome.

Please try not to worry about the emotional, spiritual, and sexual anesthesia. Worrying adds stress to the nervous system. Instead, fix your thoughts on healing. In short, have faith that in a while, through all kinds of setbacks, you will feel better.

May 5, 2016

Both excellent responses. Let me see if I can address some questions that were asked.

My second session of Emotional Freedom Release was done on 4/16/16. This was when we were able to successfully release emotions including: Anger, Depression, Guilt, and forlorn. The only way I can explain it is it was if a weight was lifted off of me. Since the moment these emotions were released, I haven't had to deal with them any longer. I started the reinstatement of Homemade Liquid Lexapro 1 mL (1 MG) on 4/18/16. There is no way these two events were connected. The reinstatement did not stop my rage or any of these emotions.

Reinstatement, at any dosage, has done nothing to change how I feel or day to day symptoms but will keep a record of this going forward in a Google Spreadsheet. The only difference really was the sleepiness I felt during the first 5 days that started going away after the 5th dose of 1 mL (1 MG).

The things my body has gone through needs to be modified a little bit:

Roughly 3 1/2 months ago stopped Abilify 5 MG cold-turkey and
Roughly 3 months and 7 days ago stopped Lexapro 20 MG essentially cold-turkey (20mg to 0mg in 2-3 weeks).
4 weeks 2 days ago started a homeopathic detox
4 weeks 2 days ago changed your diet to Paleo. Also eating Gluten Free, Soy Free, Dairy Free, and High Fructose Corn Syrup Free.
2 weeks 6 days ago stopped Lorazepam 1 MG dose cold turkey. Experienced Headaches from this for 7 to 8 days.

Alto, I understand you hesitancy about the Naturopath. However, if I didn't go see her, I wouldn't have gone to Emotional Freedom Release. This is the biggest game changer for me thus far in this process. I honestly haven't done enough research yet to know if the detox portion of my treatment is helping or hurting. What I do know is that they started off with a full blood work and they are treating deficiencies from there.

If I am not seeing any change with reinstatement, why is it important that I actually continue with it?

How long do I stay at whatever dose I decide to go with?

What if I don't see any change in symptoms?

For PSSD, emotional/physical connection with my wife, and Spiritual Block, do you feel this is something that won't be resolved for weeks, months, years, multiple years, etc?

May 5, 2016

No one can predict how long it will take for symptoms to fade. You will have to be patient.

While EFR might be helpful to you, it is highly unlikely that further naturopathic treatment will be, blood tests notwithstanding. Unless your naturopath has a specific understanding of withdrawal syndrome, she will be prescribing standard naturopathic remedies, some of which can be harmful. Many of our members have gone down this route; please see the Symptoms and Self-Care forum.

It seems to me that the initial sleepiness from Lexapro was a good sign, but I do not feel confident that more Lexapro is better. I don't know what would happen if you stopped it now, or even backed down to 3mg. As the days go on, your nervous system becomes more and more used to 4mg.

Even if you can't feel an effect now, you may get bad symptoms if you went off Lexapro. Or it may make no difference, I can't tell the future.

We urge people to move very cautiously and record the effect of changes, that's all we can do.

May 5, 2016

Hello kahleeb,
I was reading through your thread at the same time Alto was writing the excellent post above. I agree with what she has written, be careful with treatments offered by naturopaths and alternative medicine. Our nervous system can become very sensitive while recovering from drugs and withdrawal. A treatment or supplement which may have positive or no effect in a stable NS can often have negative consequences for someone in withdrawal, increasing symptoms or causing new ones.

Unfortunately there is no real science behind the prescribing of psychiatric drugs, and there is even less known about how they actually effect the mind/brain/body system long term, or how to safely stop taking them. We can only make suggestions to you based on our experience of what has been helpful for most members most of the time.

I don't have anything to add to what has already been suggested as far as your reinstatement is concerned. It sounds like it hasn't helped with the symptoms which are most important to you, so increasing the dose probably wouldn't be wise, especially since you are trying to come off your medication. As others have suggested, pick a dose and stick with it until you feel your symptoms are stable and then begin a slow safe taper off that amount. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

But I would like to comment on your spiritual/religious problem because a similar thing happened to me around the same time I descended into withdrawal after coming off lexapro too fast. For almost 2 years I didn't know there was a connection between stopping the drug and what I was experiencing. It was a very confusing time. I'm still in withdrawal after being off lexapro for about 5 years and drug free for 3 years and I'm also having spiritual issues. But I've come to the conclusion that even though there is a connection and the withdrawal might have been a catalyst, I may in fact have two things going on. Maybe its the same with you.

I've also lost my personal connection through who you would call Jesus to Source (God). I'm not formally religious, but certainly used to have incredible meaning in my life not from beliefs, but from a personal relationship, with a higher/other power. But now I've also been abandoned and have to find my way, alone, without light, through this 'Dark Night of the Soul'

You have been through a lot of drug changes recently and this would be having an impact on your physical nervous system. But you are also going through psychological changes and shifts in your views and ideas about things. Your world view is being challenged and this can also be very destabilizing. Add to this the emotional release therapy which you have embarked on which will also be causing its own form of turmoil as you uncover and release suppressed energy in the form of old emotional wounds. We all have suppressed emotions, mostly from our infancy and early childhood. They usually remain safely locked away in our subconscious, effecting us in subtle and sometimes not so subtle ways through our life. You have been releasing some of yours through therapy. Mine have been coming up spontaneously for the last few years, its not pleasant and at times quite exhausting, but like you, I've been experiencing more of a feeling of freedom and lightness after each release.

Many people experience new or intense forms of emotion arising as part of withdrawal. Here, we refer to them as Neuro emotions
and suggest that they are not real. But I wonder if perhaps they are old emotions from past events which we weren't able to process at the time and for some reason they sometimes get released as we go through withdrawal.

Some people just go through withdrawal when stopping these drugs. Other people seem to be launched on a deeper journey of transformation which reworks their entire life.

Earlier in your thread someone suggested you check out our 'finding meaning' forum and I agree. There are some threads there which I think you may find interesting and possibly helpful. You might have to scroll back through several pages of topics to find something which resonates.

Perhaps this really is just all withdrawal related, many people experience feelings of disconnection, loss and an inability to connect with anything or anyone on an emotional level. Many of us temporarily lose much of our higher brain function and the complex, rich emotional life we previously enjoyed. At times I feel like I'm being forced to survive on pure instinct alone. I feel like I've lost most of what makes me human and sometimes I wonder if this is all part of a 'test' of faith.

God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
James 1:12

I hope you find some comfort in the finding meaning forum and do let us know what you decide to do with your current reinstatement.

Petunia.

May 5, 2016

Hey Kahleeb, you wrote:

How long do I stay at whatever dose I decide to go with?

I will emphasize what I said before:

The short answer is: choose the dose that you felt best on, and stay there for 1-3 months. Whether that is 2 mg, 3 mg, 4 mg. Then we can re-assess what your "base withdrawal" state is, and consider your options for tapering.

Petunia's point about Dark Night Of The Soul - actually deepening your spiritual connection may very well be true. After all, Job was tested, and came through stronger than before. Jonah had to be in the belly of the whale for 3 days and nights, and surely he felt God had abandoned him there. GiaK writes about this on BeyondMeds: https://beyondmeds.com/2013/04/17/embracing-the-dark-night/

When you have lived through something like this - you find that core within which doesn't change - and your relationship deepens to a more solid foundation than before. But you have to live through it first!

Can you ask your wife for abstention for awhile? That is part of the healing process, too. To build your reserves back up before you are ready to share them with others. It will also relieve stress on you, the need to "perform." It doesn't have to be celibacy - but - learn to appreciate the smaller things, her smile, her skin. It doesn't have to be "the act" to be loving. Even less frequently will help build up your reserves. It is my understanding that zinc (picolinate, preferably) is a good nutritional deficiency to address - but carefully! Start with 1/4 tablet, and build up to more. Even better, find out from your blood tests if a deficiency exists, then address it. But people in withdrawal need to be FAR more careful than people who aren't going through this (and that's what most naturopaths don't understand. It's not a detox situation, it's a brain restructuring thing).

I hope you see the sun today.

May 6, 2016

I have had a little time to think about what has been posted in the last day and wanted to try and respond.

First JanCarol:

Can you ask your wife for abstention for awhile? That is part of the healing process, too. To build your reserves back up before you are ready to share them with others. It will also relieve stress on you, the need to "perform." It doesn't have to be celibacy - but - learn to appreciate the smaller things, her smile, her skin. It doesn't have to be "the act" to be loving. Even less frequently will help build up your reserves.

First off, I don't think that is fair to her. Sex is something that, I believe, was designed by God to be the ultimate expression of love within the confines of a marriage. It is the closest you can get to someone physically and you connect in mind, body, and soul. I am the kind of person that wanted sex at least 3 times a week prior to stopping Lexapro. Did that happen? Not very often but we still have had a very active sex life. Even now, we still try about once a week but the connection is not there for me. I am like a robot going through motions. I never have cheated on my wife but I often wonder if this is how sex feels in those situations. However, I would assume there would be some sort of thrill in that. There is no thrill, desire, enjoyment, connection, excitement, etc.

Even day to day things are not the same. I don't notice how beautiful she is. It doesn't register with me because nobody is attractive to me. I am not inclined to stop and give her a kiss, hold her hand, put my fingers through her hair, touch her face, gaze deeply into her eyes, etc. This died all died in me because of Lexapro. Those things have no meaning to me anymore.

After all, Job was tested, and came through stronger than before. Jonah had to be in the belly of the whale for 3 days and nights, and surely he felt God had abandoned him there.

You can definitely look at people in the Bible and see trials that they have gone through. However, there is one exception when we think about Old Testament people: They didn't have the Holy Spirit. Since the cross and resurrection, believers in Jesus Christ have God's spirit inside of them. No matter how bad things get or what you are facing, that is always something you could hold on to. Lexapro has taken that away from me. This is the equivalent of having a Windows computer with a Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) everytime you try to turn it on. It is worthless and just taking up space unless it gets repaired. This is how I feel.

Next up, Petunia said:

...But I would like to comment on your spiritual/religious problem because a similar thing happened to me around the same time I descended into withdrawal after coming off lexapro too fast. For almost 2 years I didn't know there was a connection between stopping the drug and what I was experiencing. It was a very confusing time. I'm still in withdrawal after being off lexapro for about 5 years and drug free for 3 years and I'm also having spiritual issues...

...I've also lost my personal connection through who you would call Jesus to Source (God). I'm not formally religious, but certainly used to have incredible meaning in my life not from beliefs, but from a personal relationship, with a higher/other power. But now I've also been abandoned and have to find my way, alone, without light, through this 'Dark Night of the Soul'...

...Some people just go through withdrawal when stopping these drugs. Other people seem to be launched on a deeper journey of transformation which reworks their entire life...

...Perhaps this really is just all withdrawal related, many people experience feelings of disconnection, loss and an inability to connect with anything or anyone on an emotional level. Many of us temporarily lose much of our higher brain function and the complex, rich emotional life we previously enjoyed. At times I feel like I'm being forced to survive on pure instinct alone. I feel like I've lost most of what makes me human and sometimes I wonder if this is all part of a 'test' of faith...

I highlighted a sentence above that jumps out at me everytime I read your full reply: "I'm still in withdrawal after being off lexapro for about 5 years and drug free for 3 years and I'm also having spiritual issues." I can't imagine another week of living this way--much less multiple years after being drug free. I am not sure if this is common for people coming off of these drugs but in my circle of friends and family, nobody really believes me when I try to explain what is going on inside me. Nobody has heard of anyone ever losing connection to God's spirit and my faith is also questioned. Now my greatest fear is becoming a reality: I may never experience the peace of Christ in my life again on this earth.

When I started this journey years ago, I told the Psychiatrist that I was willing to try medication but I didn't want it to change who I was. I didn't want it to change my personality or alter my way of thinking. I didn't want a drug to cause me to lose connection to God... to be unable to hear His voice. Now this has happened and I will live in doubt and frustration over the decision I made to pursue helping my condition and the doctor that gave me these pills. This same doctor "who went to medical school and knows more about how these drugs work than people on the Internet" says none of what I am experiencing can actually be caused from a pill, like Lexapro, because it is out of your system in a few weeks.

For virtually my entire life, I could be alone with my thoughts but I had God's Spirit, and at times--the voice of God--to guide, direct, and comfort me. Now I am alone with my thoughts and nothing. It is like being in a dark and empty cave with nobody around to hear your screams and cries for help. It is pure hell on earth.

Finally, Alto said:

Even if you can't feel an effect now, you may get bad symptoms if you went off Lexapro. Or it may make no difference, I can't tell the future.

I am going to do something that is probably going to be frowned upon here. I am going to stop the reinstatement of Lexapro and see if anything happens. If I experience any negative side effects, I will immediately go back to a dose around 3 MG and start the tapering process from there.

Why am I doing this? I don't see any added benefit of the reinstatement now that my symptoms are the same day in and day out and it seems very unlikely that continuing reinstatement will do nothing to improve my Spiritual Block or PSSD issues. I am still keeping tabs on my medication, food, sleep, and symptoms on a Google Spreadsheet I started.

Also, a lot of you have warned me about the Naturopath and things she may try to do in order to help me get better. I have done some searching on the site but haven't found anything about people who tried and had a bad experience. Can anyone share links to anything that might give me more detail?

I am just alone, scared, and fearful of this never getting better. I can't be around believers because they don't understand this. Roughly half of Evangelicals believe you can "Pray Away" mental illness. You can read more about that here. I see religion through the eyes of a non-believer now but with a head full of knowledge that tells me differently. The "living breathing" Bible doesn't speak to me anymore and prayer is about as helpful as talking to the closest wall.

Yes, Emotional Freedom Release has helped me resolve a lot of W/D symptoms found in trapped emotions but that can't repair the damage done to my brain. The icon I chose when I created an account here has a hand touching a screen that reads "I've lost all hope." How does one survive without hope?

May 10, 2016

Update 5/9/16: It has now been 5 days since I have stopped reinstatement of Homemade Liquid Lexapro after realizing, on this thread, that it is not recommended to increase my dose high enough to find a difference in my PSSD, Spiritual Block, or Physical/Emotional connection with my wife. Over the last 5 days, my symptoms have remained largely the same with the exception of a headache and other symptoms I am encountering from a terrible cold or Sinus Infection I have.

My appetite has gotten better and I feel like I have to force myself to eat less often.

PSSD is still a very big issue and my Spiritual Block is as bad as ever. I noticed this especially on 5/8/16 when I was at Church. But if reinstatement was making any difference on the 4 MG dose, it wasn't much of a difference. At least not enough where I would be willing to inject the poison in my system further.

I do wonder how far down reinstatement I would have had to go in order to see any relief from these symptoms...? I am guessing it would be a fairly high dose between 10 and 20 MG. This is, however, only a guess. If I would have heard from anyone or read anywhere that someone went back up somewhere in that range, I would have been more willing to experiment. But as was said here. going above 3 MG seems like a bad idea. And is it really worth putting my body through a science experiment to play "What if?"

I noticed some slight agitation and a tendency to want to be angry during the first few days of stopping the reinstatement. However, due to the Emotional Freedom Release, these emotions are not trapped in me and I was able to see what my body was telling me and work on releasing them before they were able to infest within my body again.

I don't know what else to say right now. I am very down with the thought that these symptoms may not get better for several years--if at all. I am still going to pursue the Naturopath recommendations when I go back to see her on May 20 as I still haven't been able to find any negative reports on their treatment ideas. I have read several of you warning me about Naturopaths but I haven't been able to find any specific links that outline the issues they can cause. However, I will share with her about this being a Central Nervous System issue and see if I get any feedback from her.

I have no hope in the day to day and I try to keep myself as busy as I can so I don't have to stop and realize what a miserable situation I am in. I worry very much about the future of my marriage because I see the cracks in the foundation of our relationship that the Lexapro has caused. I fear one day my wife will just grow tired of this and walk away. I can't give her the emotional love and support she needs. She isn't giving me any compassion or understanding with what I am going through. I have sensed a great coldness from her and a complete lack of understanding when I try to explain how I feel and why it is getting harder and harder to be in church. She isn't going to accept me if I stop going with the family every week. But each week is a new reminder of what my life is now missing: A relationship with God and feeling His presence inside of me.

With nobody in Real Life that I can confide in, express what I am going through, or just get encouragement from, I feel more lost and alone than at any point in my life. I am just glad that a lot of the negative emotions like Anger, Hatred, agitation, etc are gone so my kids no longer have to see them and I can at least appear somewhat "normal" to them.

Over the last week, I lost a very close friend of 12+ years due to a disagreement over politics on Facebook. I posted a particular point of view on who I was going to vote for and he couldn't stand to see someone express these words. A 200+ reply thread went back and forth until he resorted to nasty name calling, blasting me on his FB wall, and then unfriending me. This also ended a 2 1/2 year weekly Podcast we have done together. I have been scrambling to find some additional Co-Hosts for the show while he started up a new Podcast that blatantly ripped off the name of our old one.

Do I need someone that toxic in my life? Probably not but this was a person I was about to confide in with what was going on in my life over the last several months. I guess it is good I didn't ever tell him the whole story or it would have been used against me in a very public manner.

As I wait for appointments on the 17th with the Specialized Massage Therapist and the Emotional Freedom Release and the 20th with the Naturopath, I will just keep searching online for that one site, one thread, or one insight that contains the answers on how to regain a normal life.

May 16, 2016

Wondering if I broke some unwritten rule as it has been pretty quiet over the last 6 days...

May 17, 2016

Hey Kahleeb, no, you haven't "broken any rules here." You chose your course, and that is important, too - to be in charge of your own process.

But I am going to caution you (I wrote these before I realized that you have quit your reinstatement, but you may need to hear them anyway) You wrote:

In some ways, I have never felt better. My body is responding to the diet, detox, and supplements well. My mind is not.

This is why we told you to hold, to wait. There is often a honeymoon period after a CT. If you read around the site, you will see many many people say - "I felt GREAT for about six months"- then - BAM.

Of course it doesn't happen that way for everyone, there are people who walk away, symptom free and never return. We don't know what the exact numbers are. But the consequences can be so frightening, that it is much better to be careful and safe.

You cannot "detox" from these drugs. You CT'd MONTHS ago now. There is none of the chemical in your system. Instead, the drugs restructured your brain, endocrine, and nervous system. In healing, it will take time to repair.

Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery (Toxic Antidepressants)

and this, from our own Rhi (who is currently out in the world, living life):

Rhi's description of healing the brain

The drugs are not like aspirin. They rebuild your brain, and when you remove them, the structure collapses. A reinstatement gives you just enough structure to survive the coming changes. But they were in your system for 2 years, and it may take as long as that to rebuild

what they have done to your brain, endocrine, nervous system, even your gut.

You asked:

Also, a lot of you have warned me about the Naturopath and things she may try to do in order to help me get better. I have done some searching on the site but haven't found anything about people who tried and had a bad experience. Can anyone share links to anything that might give me more detail?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5662-how-good-are-naturopaths-and-other-alternative-practitioners/

The whole psych drug thing is a new experiment. Naturopaths are in the healing profession, and are often, by nature, caring, healing persons. But they have as little experience with these drugs as the doctors who prescribe them. Sometimes just trying something new helps, sometimes it causes a reaction - sometimes time is as good as a change.

If you are attracted to this process, then perhaps there is something special in it for you. All I can do is report that I have yet to meet a naturopath who understands this - I've even had long discussions with naturopaths who ADVERTISE that they help with drug withdrawal, and they didn't really know anything about safe protocols, and were just as experimental as the drug companies.

Further, because they weren't doctors, they really didn't know what to do if that big-fall-crash-shatter thing happens. Even doctors don't know that, and only respond by throwing more experiments at it.

You ask:

If I am not seeing any change with reinstatement, why is it important that I actually continue with it?

Because it may be protecting you from something worse.

A CT is like a plunge off of a cliff, that takes 4-6 months to reach bottom, or more. Falling through the air can be exhilarating, but the landing is often harder than you expect, and it becomes difficult to rebuild and heal, after that crash.

Reinstatement is like a bungy cord that catches you, holds you from that bottom, that crash. You still bounce and thrash, but have the potential to become still - and be whole - and not hit the bottom and shatter into a zillion pieces. When you become still (what we call stabilizing) - then you can lower yourself down the rest of the way.

Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones - unfortunately, SA sees the ones who get into trouble, so we don't have statistics on who crashes and who lands safely. So we advise the path of caution.

kahleeb: The Journey So Far...

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