Utahgal: Hi

[Altostrata]

I went off my synthroid, which I was only on for a month. I also take armour thyroid, 30 mgs am and 30 mgs afternoon. I've noticed recently that my anxiety is much worse when I take it! I'm wondering if I need to come off armour also. My system just can't tolerate anything right now.

This is an indication the thyroid hormone dosage is too high. Talk to your doctor about adjusting your dosage.

[Utahgal]

My labs show my dosage isn't too high. I just think my traumatized nervous system can't handle it right now. I can't believe the damage that gabapentin taper did to me.

 

I just got back from the ER. It was a total waste of time.

[Rhiannon]

No. I'm not touching the GABA. I feel terrible. Huge anxiety all day. I'm not sure if I need the hospital or psych ward. Maybe I need a new medication. I am so dysfunctional. I want to die.

 

Huge anxiety all day. 

 

Utah, I feel like you're not hearing what I'm saying about the Xanax: if you take it just once a day (or anything less than four to six times), it's definitely going to contribute to anxiety other times. I highly recommend you learn about interdose withdrawal effects. Xanax relieves anxiety at first but causes a rebound effect that leads to actually more anxiety after it wears off.

 

This is why Heather Ashton devised the "Valium crossover" method--the short-acting benzos cause this problem in withdrawal, and since you're struggling with withdrawal symptoms and anxiety, this is definitely something I would take a look at if I were you.

 

Also, please consider the things I have said about taking your gabapentin regularly, same amount each time at regular intervals. About six hours worked for me.

 

I won't repeat this stuff again, just wanted to make sure you heard, leaving it up to you otherwise.

[flower]

Try to hang in there girl.It has to get better. I too messed with the gaba and set of something like A WD effect. Doc called and had an appt this morning for me so here we go again. They are afraid to change anything because of the way I WD.

 

I didn't realize gaba could do this either.It explains alot of misery in my past. Watch that generic gaba and don't let them switch you around. I took an extra gaba 100mgs yesterday and slept.. I'm also trying to get the gaba and trazadone back together at night. I think the structure of these meds is important from what a friend made me realize...I messed that all up..

 

The pain relief has been great..But at what cost.

[Utahgal]

So am I in protracted withdrawal even though I went back on the med? What exactly is my diagnosis?

 

I can't believe I still feel this bad, this far out! Why is my nervous system so jittery, anxious?

[flower]

I don't know what is happening to us..You take a couple other meds I'm not familiar with.I don't take a benzo other that gaba and I think it is more similar than alot of people think.The WD is alike.If you look at the benzo section you will see gaba is a similar drug when it comes to WD.

 

Rhi can help more than most. She seemed to have a bad time for a while after she messed up with her dose.She CT gaba at a larger dose that we take.She said it took 6 months to stabilize after that. I don't know what she did to help herself. I hope it doesn't take me that long.

[Utahgal]

Thanks everyone for you replies. This is really hard. I find myself living moment to moment each day. I lay down a lot on the sofa with my heat pack for comfort and a cup of tea. I may try to do my mindfulness cd today. Sometimes it helps. I just don't know what else to do for myself. I am so thankful that I don't work. I don't know how I could.

 

Flower, I hope you get straightened out on your gabapentin. I'm 2 months out and still feel terrible. I have fatigue, nervousness, brain fog, general weakness, no appetite. Just all around yuck! I went to the ER yesterday, but it was a waste. I just want something to ease my suffering a notch or two.

 

Hopefully today will be better than yesterday.

[tezza]

Hi Utah,

 

I'm sorry you feel so bad! I hope you feel better soon! It takes different people, different lengths of time to stabilize but if you stay consistent with your meds, you will.

 

Hugs!

[Utahgal]

What about going on imipramine to help with my terrible anxiety? Is that a difficult drug to wean off? Maybe I could stabilize on that and then wean off the gabapentin and zyprexa? Then lastly taper off imipramine.

 

Or would that make things worse?

 

My anxiety is scaring me. I really need to get it under control. I almost checked myself into the psych ward. I took 1 mg Xanax and that kicked it. I'm scared to death of getting addicted to Xanax, but I was suicidal with the amount of suffering I was enduring, so I opted for the xanax. My anxiety was nonexistent until that darn failed gabapentin taper. I feel like I'm in protracted withdrawal even though I went back on the med!

[Nikki]

You poor kid...feeling suicidal is rough and if the Xanax helped you than take it.  Yes, anxiety can get that bad.  Your signature says Xanax as needed. 

 

Before you go to the psych ward or ER take a Xanax.  They will give you Xanax and probably more drugs than you should ever have.

 

Hugs

[tezza]

Yes, you would likely need to taper slowly off imipramine,as well. I reinstated the med I CTd and it took me about six months to feel better. I'm not trying to scare you, just want to let you know, it does get better. It may take some time or you may stabilize much more quickly than I.

 

Try to be patient and gentle on yourself.

[Utahgal]

Thanks. You ladies are my lifeline right now!

[flower]

• I messaged you....

[Utahgal]

Ok, so this morning the bad anxiety was back. I took 1.0 mg Xanax and an extra dose of my gabapentin , 300 mg. It completely knocked me out. I went back to bed and got up at noon!!! I had to force myself to get up and take a shower. I feel way better from anxiety, but still foggy and tired. I will force myself to eat some lunch and get moving. I will try to go out and grocery shop when the fogginess wears off.

 

I will need a different plan tomorrow. I don't want to sleep for half the day.

[Meimeiquest]

Did you 100% understand what Rhi meant when she said if you take Xanax at all, you need to take it regularly or you will have anxiety? I have just moved my benzo to round the clock, and I am better, although not perfect.

[Utahgal]

So, I should take my Xanax 3 times a day. 0.5 mg every 4 hours or so?

 

I am scared to death of benzos. I wish there was a med to relieve my anxiety that's not addictive.

 

I didn't have this bloody anxiety until my gabapentin taper gone wrong! So upsetting! I was feeling close to normal until that happened!

[Meimeiquest]

It is upsetting...I really feel for you. I think you can ave. the benzo dosage over the past 3 days, then take a third of that every 8 hrs. Hopefully a small, steady dose will cause less probs. than your brain losing equilibrium over it. Best!

[flower]

Good morning utahgirl hope this day is easier on us both. Did the extra gaba help at all.....Maybe the stretching out the benzo will help..

[Utahgal]

I'm not so sure that the extra gabapentin helped. I will try to add more benzo at intervals throughout the day.

 

My suffering needs to end. I'm sick of being home bound. I need to be more positive.

 

Thank you for all the well wishes.

[tezza]

So, I should take my Xanax 3 times a day. 0.5 mg every 4 hours or so?I am scared to death of benzos. I wish there was a med to relieve my anxiety that's not addictive.I didn't have this bloody anxiety until my gabapentin taper gone wrong! So upsetting! I was feeling close to normal until that happened!

Hi Utahgirl,If you're not already addicted to Xanax, you could try Buspar for anxiety. It's not supposed to be addictive the way benzos are. It does take it a couple of weeks to work, from what I've read and heard. If you're addicted to Xanax, you don't need to drop it.As for the gabapentin taper, gone wrong, we've just about all been there (with some drug). I know it's awful but you will get past this. Stay consistent with your meds, going up or down on dosage will extend the time it takes to stabilize.Hugs and healing!

[Utahgal]

Tezza

 

I couldn't agree more. I need to be consistent on my med doses and ride it out. But I first need to find a little relief. I'm not sure if that means adding a morning dose of gabapentin to even things out. Or, maybe switching back over to geodon from my zyprexa. Last time I go into trouble trying to taper gabapentin, geodon really helped with the anxiety. I was stable pretty quick, about a week. I stayed on geodon for a couple months and then the doc switched me over to zyprexa to try to get me to gain some weight. I've now been on zyprexa for about 5 months or so and haven't gained any significant weight. I think I really need to get off the gabapentin to regain my appetite.

 

I am not yet addicted to Xanax. That's why I'm trying to find another med combo or solution so I don't need the Xanax.

[Utahgal]

Are beta blockers difficult to wean off?

[tezza]

I'm not sure about beta blockers, maybe someone else here can answer that.

[Altostrata]

Beta blockers require weaning.

[Utahgal]

I really want to start to taper my gabapentin but I am not stable. I hate to think I have to wait 6 more months. I am hoping to find a way to speed the process up, but I certainly don't want to make matters worse! I think you can all understand how badly I want off these meds!

[flower]

you told me your generic was switched on sept 1st...This is what happened to me that set this off. Tell your Doc to make sure this doesn't happen..Maybe you could get the pharmacy to get you some of the original you were taking. I can not tolerate another generic.I have tried 4 since april ...This is not a good thing... AEDs are not to be messed with like they are candy..I look at all my scripts before I leave the store..

 

I read here that a switch in generic klonopin can be a problem too.

I can't explain what happened to me but it is similar to a wd I've had from Ativan in the past.

[Rhiannon]

TezzaI couldn't agree more. I need to be consistent on my med doses and ride it out. But I first need to find a little relief. I'm not sure if that means adding a morning dose of gabapentin to even things out. Or, maybe switching back over to geodon from my zyprexa. Last time I go into trouble trying to taper gabapentin, geodon really helped with the anxiety. I was stable pretty quick, about a week. I stayed on geodon for a couple months and then the doc switched me over to zyprexa to try to get me to gain some weight. I've now been on zyprexa for about 5 months or so and haven't gained any significant weight. I think I really need to get off the gabapentin to regain my appetite.I am not yet addicted to Xanax. That's why I'm trying to find another med combo or solution so I don't need the Xanax.

From what you have described I think it is unlikely that you are "not yet addicted to Xanax." Benzo dependence happens quickly, with just a couple of weeks of use.

 

As I've said before, I still think you would do well to try stabilizing on regular multiple daily doses of Xanax at regular intervals of about four hours apart. Same dose every four hours. At least give it a shot for a week and see if it helps. If the Xanax interdose fluctuation/withdrawal is the problem, getting your plasma (blood) levels steadied out should help fairly quickly.

[Utahgal]

Ok, Rhi. I will give it a shot. I hate Xanax, but something's got to give.

 

Thanks

[Rhiannon]

I hate Xanax too! Hate hate hate it. Let's start an I Hate Xanax club. :-)

 

You don't actually have to take more than you've been taking, you just need to spread it out so that your plasma levels stay smoother and more even. It's the ups and downs roller coaster thing that causes the rebound anxiety and mood swings.

[Utahgal]

Did anyone else have these side effects with gabapentin? ........hair loss, appetite loss, weight loss, weak leg muscles, brain fog, fatigue?

 

I'm trying to decide if its side effects from the GP, or if its still my thyroid.

 

My other question is about tapering. I take 300 mgs, so 10% would be a 30 mg cut. I am too chicken to try that. I was thinking of only 10 mgs every 4 weeks, which is less than 5%. Would it be easier on my system to try:

1. A 10 mg cut every 4 weeks OR

2. A 5 mg cut every 2 weeks

 

I plan to get the liquid form and hopefully start in another month or so. Just trying to do some homework ahead of time. I certainly don't trust my doctor who told me to cut 100 mgs a week. It completely messed up my nervous system.

[Rhiannon]

I absolutely had brain fog with Neurontin.  And spaciness, and it was practically impossible for me to learn anything new, which was unfortunate since I started a new job while I was on it (and almost got fired for not being able to retain new information).

 

I call it Morontin, actually (which I have to credit to some anonymous wit on the Internet, can't remember where I first saw it).

 

The upside being that when I finally tapered off it, I was the only person my age (58) I knew whose memory was actually getting BETTER. That was a cool feeling. 

 

I don't think anyone can tell you what kind of cut is going to be easiest on your nervous system, because we really don't know. Your body has its own rules.

 

Here's what I do recommend:  Start small and conservative. Start with a small cut and a long hold. Don't try to follow a calendar schedule; follow your body's schedule instead, by observing your own symptoms.

 

Keep a daily journal of symptoms (ranking them on a numerical scale of 1 to 5 or something like that). Don't trust yourself to remember the way your symptoms wax and wane--the drugs and the withdrawal actually interfere with our ability to reliably perceive patterns. Write it down each day and you'll see the patterns emerge.

 

Do a few small cuts and long holds this way until you have a feel for how your body is going to respond to cuts and how the withdrawal symptoms are going to unfold and play out and resolve for you. Once you have a track record, you can then decide if you want to try larger cuts and/or shorter holds.

 

Experiment conservatively until you find your optimal rate of taper.

 

This way you will become the expert on your own withdrawal process and you'll be able to tailor it to your own needs and your own life changes.

[Utahgal]

Thank you Rhi.

[Utahgal]

Hopefully someone can chime in.

 

I woke this morning with terrible trembling and shaking as I lay in bed. It lasted almost an hour and didn't go away until I got up and moving. It was so bad that it shook the bed and woke my husband up. My nervous system was obviously irritated. Has anyone else experienced this?

[Meimeiquest]

Yes...it's the morning cortisol reaction, I think there is lots of info in the symptoms and self-care section. Darkening your bedroom is one of the most helpful things you can do, or use a sleep mask. Welcome to the club

[Utahgal]

Hopefully someone can answer this.

 

I currently take 2.5 zyprexa for anxiety. I would like to switch back over to Geodon for two reasons. First, geodon helped my anxiety in the past and zyprexa doesn't seem to help. Second, geodon comes in liquid form, so it will be easier to taper off when the time comes.

 

My question is, how do I do a cross over? Do I begin the geodon while still on zyprexa and then slowly taper off zyprexa over several weeks? Or do I just abruptly stop the zyprexa when I begin the geodon?

 

I have a psych appointment tomorrow. My plan is to switch to geodon, get rid of this anxiety, get stable, then begin a gabapentin taper in a month or two when things settle down. I trust your opinions more than my psych, since he's the one who landed me in this mess by cutting my GP by 100 mgs!!!

[Altostrata]

We can't advise you about switching drugs.However, generally a cross-taper is safer than simply switching.From the San Francisco Dept. of Public Health http://www.sfdph.org/dph/files/cbhsdocs/MHPdocs/AtypicalAntipsychoticGuidelines102006.pdf 

....if the switch is not urgent then both agents should be cross-tapered over several weeks with close monitoring for the emergence of new symptoms.Antipsychotic monotherapy is the recognized standard for the treatment of schizophrenia; pharmacological justification for polypharmacy is weak. Combining medications adds to cost of treatment, increases potential for adverse effects, may make adherence more challenging, and increases possibility of unfavorable drug reactions. However, polypharmacy may be acceptable in the short term when one antipsychotic is being tapered/discontinued while the new antipsychotic is being initiated/titrated

 

Example of the cross-taper over 2 weeks http://wiki.psychiatrienet.nl/index.php/Olanzapine-ZiprasidoneYou may wish to do it slower.Interactions: http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/geodon-with-zyprexa-zydis-2330-1540-1744-1110.html