Utahgal: Hi

[Utahgal]

Thanks alto. That's the kind of info I was looking for.

[Utahgal]

I found a couple of ideas on this site to help with my gabapentin withdrawal symptoms........namely anxiety and shakiness. I learned that Epsom salt baths and gargles could help. I do also take a quality magnesium supplement. I also learned to heat about 20 saffron stems in a cup of water and consume in twice a day, about 10 hours apart. Hopefully it will help. It's worth a try. Thank you for the ideas!!

[Utahgal]

Met with my psychiatrist yesterday. He said there is no way that I could possibly still feel ill from my gabapentin taper. I felt fine until I did that failed taper. Why doesn't he believe me?

 

I also started to taper down on my zyprexa by splitting a small fragment from the pill. I cut several pills this way. Then I plan to split it in half for a few days. Then split it into a quarter, then stop. I already added in the geodon, so I am on both right now. I just need to taper off the zyprexa. I plan to take 2 weeks. Hopefully it goes smoothly since they are both the same class of drugs, antipsychotics. I'm just trading one for the other.

 

Geodon should be easier to taper off since it comes in liquid form!

 

My psychiatrist told me to just switch the two without tapering! I'm too scared to try that! He also said he's never had a patient have bad side effects coming off zyprexa, yet I've found loads of horror stories on the net!

[Utahgal]

Just an update......

 

I am in the process of switching over from zyprexa and onto geodon. I first started the 20 mgs geodon and slowly began to taper the zyprexa. I went from 2.5, down to about 2.0 over 1 week. Now I am on 1.25 where I will hold for 3 more days (7 total), then I will split that in half to 0.6 for a week, then I will discontinue.

 

I will hold the 20 mgs geodon until I taper off the 300 mgs gabapentin. I will hold the geodon for at least a month or two before i begin the GP taper. I will get the gabapentin in liquid form and decrease by 5 mgs at a time.

 

Once I'm stable from that taper, I will try to taper off the geodon. I will try to decrement 1 mg at a time.

 

That's my plan so far. Please feel free to comment.

[Petunia]

Hi Utahgal,

 

Your psychiatrist's attitude about withdrawal is common, I'm sure most of them don't know the full impact of the medications they prescribe, only what they are told by the drug companies.

 

I have to admit, I don't know anything about the medications you are taking so I can't comment on your plan, maybe someone else will have some feedback.

 

I do have experience of Xanax though, I used to take it 'as needed', but now my nervous system is sensitized, I can't take it because I get very bad rebound anxiety.  Xanax has a short half life.

 

I hope your plan works well, slow is good.

 

Petu.

[Utahgal]

Thank you Petu for your comment.

 

I've been on the geodon for 2 weeks and its not helping my anxiety like it has in the past. I'm really scared, as I was depending on it for some relief. I feel like one big raw nerve. I'm not sure how much more of this I can stand. In the meantime, I've been popping Xanax like pez candy.

[Utahgal]

It's been 3 months since my gabapentin failed taper. I still awaken every morning with anxiety and nausea. Do you think it's too soon to try another GP taper? I was thinking 10 mg per month (I'm at 300). Maybe 5 mg every 2 weeks, to shock my system less. It still equals 10 mgs a month, but I like the smaller decrement.

[Rhiannon]

Dangit, Utah, I like you, but I'm really frustrated that you don't seem to be hearing what anyone tells you about Xanax. 

 

Xanax. Causes. Rebound. Interdose. Anxiety.

 

Anxiety, according to you, is the problem that's driving you nuts, and you're taking Xanax "as needed", which is to say, erratically.

 

At this point you can't quit it, because that will be way worse. The only way to control it is to select a daily dose based on what your body is currently accustomed to and divide it into multiple daily doses such that you are taking the same amount every four hours around the clock, in order to keep your plasma levels as smooth and consistent as you can. As long as the blood levels of Xanax are bouncing up and down you are going to continue to experience rebound/interdose anxiety.

 

I'm not going to say it again, because I've reached the "about to tear my hair out" point, and I have really thin and wimpy hair to begin with.

[flower]

I agree with Rhi utahgirl ,beware of those benzos...Ativan nearly kicked my butt The gaba should have settled by now to some extent. Maybe it's time to take another look...At least give it a try ,dosing that stuff differently..I wish you luck...flower.

[Skyler]

HI Utah.. Rhi is absolutely correct. Given the shirt half life of Ativan, you are crashing off, then taking more to medicate the atrocious anxiety brought on by interdose withdrawal (and rebound).  If you would like help figuring out how much Ativan you should be taking on a daily basis, (and with splitting it into smaller doses), open a thread in the benzo sub forum. 

[Skyler]

oops.. that's supposed to read short not shirt!

[Utahgal]

I thought I already posted on an earlier thread. I DO take Xanax EVERY 4 hrs as per Rhi's suggestion. I have been doing so for 2 WEEKS now. It doesn't stop me from waking with early morning panic, nausea.

 

My simple question was, is 3 months out too soon to try to taper the gabapentin again?

[Meimeiquest]

Your issues are far beyond my knowledge, but I have had to start taking a benzo at 2 a.m. And I have never had an anxiety issue before meds. I think you could take 2.5 in the night, then just 2.5 when you wake up.

 

My understanding, sadly, because I am in the same boat...there's no set time to wait to restart a taper....you "only" need to be stable. Sorry!

[Utahgal]

My husband wants me to wait until after Christmas to taper GP. He feels that 3 months out is too soon. Maybe he's right. It's just that I suspect that many of my health issues stem from the gabapentin.......... Weak legs, hair loss, poor appetite, tremors, brain fog, lack of motivation, general crud. I really hate this. It is so difficult to be patient.

 

So I guess for now I am holding at 300 mgs gabapentin, 20 mgs geodon, 0.5 Xanax upon waking and 0.25 every 4 hrs thereafter.

[Skyler]

My husband wants me to wait until after Christmas to taper GP. He feels that 3 months out is too soon. Maybe he's right. It's just that I suspect that many of my health issues stem from the gabapentin.......... Weak legs, hair loss, poor appetite, tremors, brain fog, lack of motivation, general crud. I really hate this. It is so difficult to be patient.So I guess for now I am holding at 300 mgs gabapentin, 20 mgs geodon, 0.5 Xanax upon waking and 0.25 every 4 hrs thereafter.

 

Hi UG.. I have not read your entire thread, but hopefully I am not repeating.  Have you considered Geodon could be the source of some of the symptoms you report above? It could be the reason for your tremors and brain fog. And I know first hand benzos can contribute to hair loss..

 

I'm really sorry you are having such a difficult time.  When both side effects and WD need to be considered, tapering becomes something of an art, and this cannot be reassuring.  But your body really will chart the way for you...

 

Skyler

[Utahgal]

I got my liquid gabapentin, and am thinking of starting to taper in a few days. I am here looking for support. My current dose is 300 mgs. My doctor (my pcp not my psychiatrist is helping me and said to go as slowly as I want.......basically leaving it up to me). I know 30 mgs would be 10%, but I would rather go smaller. I was thinking 10 mgs every 2-3 weeks. How does that sound? So I guess that puts me down to 290 mgs. I know it's not a big cut, but I'm too scared to go bigger.

 

In the meantime, I still have my morning anxiety, which I take Xanax for every few hours. I'm guessing its not going away any time soon. The geodon has helped a little with the anxiety, maybe 30%. Last time it helped a lot more. I'm bummed! Anxiety is the worst!

[Petunia]

I got my liquid gabapentin, and am thinking of starting to taper in a few days. I am here looking for support.

 

If you start a new taper when your nervous system is still unstable from previous changes, its very possible that your symptoms will become worse.  Of course its completely your decision, and I hope it goes well.

[Utahgal]

Crud Petu,

 

You are probably right. I just don't seem to be getting better. It's been 3 months. I wonder if I need a new med to stabilize? Maybe a beta blocker or imprimine? Then worry about tapering them later.

 

I'm not sure how to proceed at this point.

[Utahgal]

It's basically cortisol mornings that I have a problem with at this point. Is that enough reason to no begin a taper?

[Rhiannon]

It's basically cortisol mornings that I have a problem with at this point. Is that enough reason to no begin a taper?

 

I personally use cortisol mornings as a guide to when it's time to take a break from tapering and when I'm ready to start again. As long as they're still bad I hold. In my case they do settle down, although of course it's quite individual.

[Utahgal]

My update.

 

I still feel terrible from the GP taper 3 months ago. The anxiety is unbearable. I have been using 4 mg Xanax a day! ......and still feel bad!

 

My psychiatrist just prescribed me doxepin, a Tricyclic AD, like imipramine. He also switched my antipsychotic, geodon, over to an older AP, perphenazine.

 

Hopefully I will stabilize on these new meds and then I can begin my gabapentin taper. I already have the GP liquid and plan to cut 10 mgs every 4 weeks.

 

I wish I didn't need those new meds, but my suffering had to end. I will slowly taper those when the time comes.

[Utahgal]

Do you think that the anxiety and weakness that I'm experiencing could be from autonomic nervous system dysfunction? Where I'm stuck in sympathetic mode and my parasympathetic system isn't kicking in properly?

[Meimeiquest]

That is exactly what much of withdrawal is...sad to say

[Utahgal]

I started my gabapentin taper last night! I'm using the liquid. My starting dose was 300, so I dropped it down to 290. I figure I will go nice and slow. Hopefully it goes well.

[Utahgal]

Should I be splitting my dose instead of taking just 1 dose before bed? I currently take 290 mgs.

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Whoa, those are a lot of drug changes at once. Why did your doctor switch two drugs?

 

You may wish to look at our doctor list http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/

[Utahgal]

Hi Alto, I was hoping you would respond.

 

I had been getting sicker and sicker with anxiety/ panic. I was up to 4 mg a day of Xanax and that barely helped me. So, my doctor decided to stop the geodon, since it wasn't helping. Instead, he opted for the doxepin / perphenazine combo. I'm not sure why it is prescribed as a combo.

 

It's been a week, and my anxiety is way down. I only need .5 to 1.0 mgs of Xanax. So, it is working.

 

I decided to begin my gabapentin taper. I have the liquid form and decreased my dose from 300 down to 290. I know that's far less than 10%, but I'd like to start off low and slow after my last failed attempt when I decreased by 100 mgs and ended up in the hospital for 4 days.

 

I was wondering if I should split the dose or just continue to take it all at bedtime. Is there an advantage to splitting the dose? I take 5.8 ml in liquid form before bed. (250 mgs = 5 ml)

 

I want to make it as easy as possible on my system.

 

Maybe Rhi will chime in. I know she successfully got off the gab!

[Utahgal]

Interesting article about taking niacin (B3) for anxiety and depression.

 

http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2005/pdf/2005-v20n03-p167.pdf

[Utahgal]

Update....

 

I reduced my gabapentin by 10 mgs 1 week ago. I feel fine! No withdrawal symptoms! Only 290 more mgs to go! Whoot-whoot! Slow and steady wins the race.

 

I will reduce by another 10 mgs in one week. I figure every 2 weeks I will decrease, unless I feel symptoms. If I feel symptoms, I will go back to previous dose and hold for a month or so.

[flower]

^{you go girl...}

[Altostrata]

Reducing by 10mg every two weeks is, in effect, less than a 5% dosage decrease or about 10% per month. It might be fine for a while.

 

However, when you get below 200mg, it becomes more than a 10% per month decrease. This may be a problem for you. The amount of decrease should get smaller as you get lower, to maintain a 10% per month rate. Please be aware of this.

[Utahgal]

Good point, Alto. Right now my goal is to make it to 200 mgs in one piece. I figure I can go about 10 mgs to get there. After I reach 200 I will have to decrease less.

 

I will have to find a better oral syringe to be more accurate.

[Utahgal]

Thank you, Flower, for your continued support. I can use all the support I can get!

[Utahgal]

I need a smaller oral syringe to more accurately measure my gabapentin. I have a 10 ml and a 5 ml. It is difficult to measure less than a ml by reading the little lines. For example, I take 5.6 ml. I can accurately measure the 5 ml, but I have a tough time discerning the .6 as opposed to .8 or .4. Where can I get a 1 ml syringe?

[Altostrata]

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/

[Utahgal]

Target pharmacy gave me a 1 ml syringe. I'm all set! It should be much easier to measure now!!!

 

I am down to 280 mgs of gaba and doing fine! Thank goodness!