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Barbarannamated

Disconnect between interest and action or motivation

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Barbarannamated

You ALL rock!!

 

Clarification: I may have used 'brain imaging' improperly in my earlier post. I was thinking of structural brain imaging as is done w Alzheimer's as opposed to functional imaging showing areas that light up w theoretical activity/stimulation.

A

RE: PEER PROGRAMS. Interesting that you brought this up, Alex. I have a good friend who is a peer, but has never been hospitallized or medicated. I've argued w him, asking how he can truly be a 'peer' when he has not experienced those essential components that, to me, define what a peer is. He has had therapy for depression and was recommended by his therapist for the program. He is a ''creative genius" who learned to dodge the MH system early on. It is EXTREMELY difficult for me to hear of the people he works with and all of the meds they are on. He has to tread lightly, but does attempt to get them thinking toward alternatives. I've talked to or read about other peers who have an alternative approach and have started facilities for alternatives to hospitalization/meds.

 

'Neurohormone' should be required terminology in place of neurotransmitter. It keeps the brain connected to the rest of the body in a way.

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summer

"PS: I think the anhedonic effects of SSRIs is a major contributing factor to the obesity/diabetes problem in this country. It stands to reason that if the med you've been on for years (decades!) makes you sluggish and dull, you're not exactly going to have the motivation to exercise or eat well. In fact, you may binge on junk food as that's the only "pleasure" you have left in your life. When you factor this in with the effects of antipsychotics which DIRECTLY cause obesity and diabetes and you factor in how many Americans are on this stuff, the obesity epidemic suddenly has a frightening new contributing factor. Yikes!"

 

That's me... sad but true, for the reasons you suggest above. I have to reread this thread tonight... which is one of the best I've seen, and most definitely all about me!

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Rhiannon

GRRRRR...

 

Just had to check in on this thread again...having the amotivational problem today, bad. It's like there's a wall between me and the world out there--not really in a DP/DR kind of way, but in a motivation kind of way. Like, okay, it's there, sure, if I did these things it would make my life easier and more fun, but there's something weighing me down and I just can't move and I just can't really care either.

 

Man, I love psych meds. Sure have improved MY life.

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Altostrata

Yeah, me too. My tiny apartment is a mess. I have a list a mile long of things to do can't get motivated to put time into doing them.

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Barbarannamated

Alto, the way I see it, you have taken on a much greater purpose....helping all of us! Your diligence and passion is amazing. Your apartment is a minor symptom of a purpose-filled life.

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summer

Alto, the way I see it, you have taken on a much greater purpose....helping all of us! Your diligence and passion is amazing. Your apartment is a minor symptom of a purpose-filled life.

 

What a nice thing to say!

 

What's a tidy apartment going to do for us in the long run, anyway?!

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compsports

""Man, I love psych meds. Sure have improved MY life.""

 

Yeah, they have improved my life just like fleas help cats and dogs. What would we do without these meds that are so life saving?

 

Anyway, back to the topic - I am trying out an outlining software program again to see if that can at least provide reminders that I will pay attention to. I find that if I can at least get a few tasks done, that may provide the possible incentive and motivation to try to do more things.

 

Stay tuned. I am not ready to say I have found the magical elixir.

 

CS

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Altostrata

Thanks for that kind comment, Bar. And thanks for your contributions here. Sometimes this purpose is overwhelming!

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Barbarannamated

Altostrata wrote :

"Thanks for that kind comment, Bar. And thanks for your contributions here. Sometimes this purpose is overwhelming!"

 

More to come. Your passion, commitment, and organization AMAZE me! It's intimidating to think of what you were like before being dulled by ADs.

RE: clean apartment.... it helps b/c you won't be burdened by the guilt that you 'should' clean your apartment, thereby freeing up ASneurospace for US! All about helping others, ya see ;)

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Rhiannon

 

 

I predict you're going to be surprised to find how deep the hooey goes when it comes to psychiatry handbooks.

 

I have to agree with Alto on this one and generally ditto her grain of salt alerts. Once you start reading on the neuroscience end of things (helps to know a little about cell biology and biochemistry) you see that the brain is HUGELY--there are no words for how hugely--more complex than the cartoonish ways it's talked about in medical textbooks. And the neuroscience, although growing by leaps and bounds daily, is still pretty primitive.

 

It also helps if you read back over some science history and see how people have always talked about science as if they knew the whole story, until 20 years later when all of a sudden OOPS and the paradigm changes completely.

 

Our level of knowledge about the brain is about like our level of knowledge about astronomy and the universe when we just started to realize that our sun was a star like the stars in the sky. We have a ways to go. I personally am of the opinion that meanwhile, it might be wise not to screw with brain chemistry...But then, that's how I ended up here. I bought it. Who knew?

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blueheron

Well, I can see it's been about six months since anyone commented on this, but since I just joined, I'm going to pretend it was written just for ME! :lol:

 

I have had this and totally, completely relate to Barbara. I have spent a lifetime being "The Planner," not just for myself and my family, but huge groups, organized fundraisers, ran hotels and restaurants and theaters, you name it!

 

Now, just in the last month or two of tapering and then stopping all meds, I'm amazed by the disconnect I'm experiencing. I find it hard to follow through on the most simple things -- it's not that I forget them, I just don't want to follow through. I lose interest. And then I feel guilty and beat myself up. And never for a moment did I think it was a withdrawal symptom.

 

So a big thank-you for posting.

Blue Heron

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Rhiannon

Thanks for bumping this up Heron.

 

So here's a sort of hopeful thing that happened to me: Recently I had to hold my taper for a long time, about six weeks, because of some stressful and busy life events. I enjoyed a lovely spell towards the end of the hold and the first week of tapering again, of feeling really good, grounded, hopeful, etc. And during that time I found that I was actually motivated--and organized enough --to make plans and get out and do things. I did a little volunteer project, connected with someone I had been wanting to make friends with, got out and got a massage--nothing major but more than I had been able to do before.

 

Now I'm back in withdrawal and starting to have the amotivation crap again. As well as the other crappiness. Including those neuro-emotions of shame and isolation.

 

Periodically I have to hold my taper for various reasons, sometimes just withdrawal symptoms that don't seem to go away, sometimes life events that I need to be able to cope with, and so far every time I've held for six weeks or so I've enjoyed one of these lovely windows. This gives me hope for the eventual future down the road when I'm finally done with this withdrawal process. Presuming I'm done while I still have time for some living.

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Shanti

This is totally what I do. I've decided not to feel bad about it and just wait out my withdrawals. I do what I can do, and that's pretty much it. I never go anywhere. I'm starting to get out walking more now. So things are starting to look up. But yeah, just give yourself a break and know that we'll heal from this and get our lives and motivation back in time.

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meistersinger

GRRRRR...

 

Just had to check in on this thread again...having the amotivational problem today, bad. It's like there's a wall between me and the world out there--not really in a DP/DR kind of way, but in a motivation kind of way. Like, okay, it's there, sure, if I did these things it would make my life easier and more fun, but there's something weighing me down and I just can't move and I just can't really care either.

 

Man, I love psych meds. Sure have improved MY life.

 

Same here. I haven't had the energy to do anything for the past month. Case in point: I go through my email and the web every day trying to find work. I'm now of the attitude "Why Bother?" I haven't worked in my profession in 10 years, No other profession piques my interest, I don't have the money for training, My age works against me, and, the latest, A good many employers have told me not to bother applying since I've been out of work for so long (something I really don't understand). My brothers have flat out called me a liar and a lazy m******f***** who doesn't deserve to live. WHEN DOES THE B******* END?

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meistersinger

Another reason to not bother finding work: if they find out you have ANY medical condition (and nowadays, it's easy to find out, DESPITE HPPA laws to the contrary) kiss the job goodbye, that is, if you haven't been selected against by an online job application system that requires you to complete an application profile, which is usually rigged to reject almost everybody.

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Barbarannamated

Love the requirement 'you must be currently employed to qualify for this position.' So motivating. :(

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Barbarannamated

This has gotten far worse. I can speculate on all of the life issues contributing, but wonder what of this is biochemical or part of the 1 year point I've heard of. My energy/motivation/ability to anticipate the slightest reward or pleasure is at all time low.

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Nikki

Barb isn't the biochemical part the basic underlying issue? You are on medications and have tapered off some, so that's a huge chemical part.

 

And yes, there are the emotional portions which are not a positive contribution to feeling well.

 

Barb I think everyone on this site regardless of the drugs we are taking is totally in a chemical bind.

 

I look at myself and believe that if I were not having issues with Celexa I would feel so much better mentally. If I were at my goal in life, mentally & emotionally I would feel so much bette. However, if I were at my goal, I would still be dealing with the chemical aspects brought on by tapering.

 

Barb when I was tapering lexapro, I was divorced, happy I was divorced, in a good job that I really liked, plenty of money, good friends, my mother was younger and healthier, etc. Life was good. I was a total wreck. I could not see the good in anything, and on certain days I wanted to die. Why, because I was a chemical train wreck.

 

You have had your share of health issues and drug cocktails. It takes a toll. One the drug situation has resolved, everything else will be so much more manageable.

 

Lots of Hugs

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Barbarannamated

Thanks, Nikki. I need to hear others' experiences because I have nothing that feels remotely positive to balance me. The silence is deafening, so to speak.

And, yes, the autoimmune endocrine/possible Lupus has been eroding my immune system for years unchecked. Hard to sort out what's what. This time of year is my worst - similar to going into winter months and hibernation for the cold weather folks.

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Barbarannamated

GRRRRR...

Just had to check in on this thread again...having the amotivational problem today, bad. It's like there's a wall between me and the world out there--not really in a DP/DR kind of way, but in a motivation kind of way. Like, okay, it's there, sure, if I did these things it would make my life easier and more fun, but there's something weighing me down and I just can't move and I just can't really care either.

 

Man, I love psych meds. Sure have improved MY life.

 

Rhi, this statement sums it up. I realized I can't anticipate anything, good or bad. Not anticipating "bad" seems good at the surface, but somewhere in the recesses of this mind, I know there will be ramifications. I just can't connect with any emotion, even worry. I'm emoted out.

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Nikki

Barb a friend who recently moved back to Maine from Jupiter was on 50mgs. Zoloft and a larger dose of Trazadone. She couldn't get moving and was down. Sweet girl, very caring person, she could help others, but she couldn't get herself moving and never felt up.

 

I felt the Trazadone was what was making her feel this way. After she moved this spring, seh got off both Zoloft & Trazadone and has never felt better. She is looking after her elderly father and she is not depressed.

 

I read our signature again and was wondering if this resonates with you. Trazadone is a downer.

 

Hugs

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Barbarannamated

Very possible, Nikki. Klonopin and trazodone could both be contributing.

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enufodat

As others have said, this is a fascinating thread. I am especially thrilled to see Neitsche pop up not once but twice. Although I have to admit I've always had trouble reading him...

 

Two things that touch on topics raised.

 

On emotional anaesthesia, I had a remarkable contrary experience several weeks ago. For the first time ever I had and remembered what was clearly a very vivid color dream. It was from a place that was very important to my childhood and well into adulthood. The colors were extaordinary, powerful, joyfull. I woke up and for several hours experienced a truly organic sense of motivation; not, "oh, well I must do x, y, z now," but just from a deep inner space there was motion, intention, volition. It was very clear that feeling was driving it.

 

So, for me, it was a very clear sign of the relationships discussed early in this thread. I also subsequently find that when I feel low I don't quite "hear" music entirely, not in its richness. Sometimes if I sing, things look up. I'm considering adding some chanting to my meditation practice.

 

Both related to all that and to the discussion of the healthy importance of "negative" emotions, Richard Davidson at U. Wisconsin, Madison has done fascinating research on the relationship of compassion to overall well being, and how it can be enhanced or cultivated. Basically, the Dalai Lama sends his senior monks to the lab in Madison. They do brain scans when these guys are meditating, especially Tibetan visualizations and exercizes focused on compassion. They actually induce pain--I think it's heat placed on the arm. These guys are not so much bothered by the pain, since they perceive it within a compassionate framework--not just for others, but for themselves.

 

There's more to it, and one of the bottom lines is that compassion is perhaps the key to making "negative" feelings, including emotions, constructive...or something like that. I forget the exact link, but believe there was something pretty clear about compassion being an element of overall mental well-being. Which is rather the opposite of the "negative emotions are bad for you" thing, which suggests you should run away fast.

 

Not that compassion is negative, but perhaps a bridge that ties the two zones (pain/pleasure, sorrow/joy, etc.) together in a constructive way that makes for a "whole" integrated psyche. I have to admit that several years of meditation have not seemed to have too great an impact for me. But. I have recently, doing tonglen practice--which I just couldn't get ANY traction with for the longest time--started to be able to generate or release emotional states at times. The idea is to generate compassion... for me, right now, it tends to be more deep sadness and grief, but I think that may be the starting point. And occasionally, just a little whiff of something lighter, more positive, maybe a little conversion to compassion for myself and others. So it ain't easy and it don't happen quick for a tough nut to crack like me (and I've also had some help from...ahem...psychedelics, both the experience and cautions regarding you can read about elsewhere), but there are things to work with. Cheers, and thanks to all you thoughtful, savvy...compassionate...people for such good reading.

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Rhiannon

Hi, enuf--I've done some tonglen and it's a powerful practice. Working with some other stuff right now but in a way once you do tonglen it becomes part of you forever, I think.

 

Barb: "I realized I can't anticipate anything, good or bad. Not anticipating "bad" seems good at the surface, but somewhere in the recesses of this mind, I know there will be ramifications."

 

That describes it well. My daughter's getting married this week, and there's a four-day campout involved, and I'm trying to pack the car, but it's so hard, when I just feel like "who cares?" And I've needed for two years to get some work done on my teeth, and I need to get dentures, and same thing. And same thing for the condition of my house and housekeeping. I just don't seem to be able to care enough to get it done.

 

It's really driving me nuts today, so I'm glad this thread has been bumped.

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Barbarannamated

Hi, enuf--I've done some tonglen and it's a powerful practice. Working with some other stuff right now but in a way once you do tonglen it becomes part of you forever, I think.

 

Barb: "I realized I can't anticipate anything, good or bad. Not anticipating "bad" seems good at the surface, but somewhere in the recesses of this mind, I know there will be ramifications."

 

That describes it well. My daughter's getting married this week, and there's a four-day campout involved, and I'm trying to pack the car, but it's so hard, when I just feel like "who cares?" And I've needed for two years to get some work done on my teeth, and I need to get dentures, and same thing. And same thing for the condition of my house and housekeeping. I just don't seem to be able to care enough to get it done.

It's really driving me nuts today, so I'm glad this thread has been bumped.

 

I want to add APATHY to this discussion. There's much overlap, I realize.

 

I think the hallmark and root is a complete inability to *see* any future, good or bad.

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Jemima

I'm so glad to find this thread. I recently wrote in my intro that I've been sleeping a lot and not feeling very motivated, not realizing that this is also due to withdrawal. On the one hand I'm frustrated that I'm not ready to write my recovery story just yet, but on the other, at least I can quit beating up on myself for not accomplishing much of anything. Now I can just be apathetic and exasperated at how long withdrawal is taking. This phase has been going on for over two months and I hate it.

 

It isn't helping that the area where I live is just about burned to a crisp. It used to be soothing to go out and weed the garden and look at the growing green things, but the drought has really stunted my garden's growth. Some of the prettiest vegetables, such as squash, haven't even germinated let alone gotten big enough to flower. There's no way I can pull weeds out of this hard, red clay soil without moisture, so all I can do is remember to water the plants that are surviving. The heat is making going anywhere unappealing as well. Nothing like getting into a baking hot car after an hour or two of being out and about.

 

This morning was the second Sunday that I got up early enough for church and then just couldn't bring myself to go. I think it would do me good to get back in the habit, but so far I've not been able to force it. My church friends don't understand what I'm going through and I don't look forward to talking about it. I guess, irrationally, I feel some shame about it, as if I were responsible for being poisoned with Lipitor, and then Lexapro.

 

Things never turn out the way you think they will, do they? I never dreamed I'd spend my first year of retirement in withdrawal from a prescription drug. :(

 

Someone please reassure me that this too shall pass!

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Barbarannamated

Jemima,

 

This is the toughest one for me and such a strange "crash" after the "anxiety/overdrive phase". Just when I got used to trying to calm down, I went the other direction and NEED that surplus of energy. You are having the kind of summer I'm usd to and DREAD. 100°+ months of dead, scorched earth. A tinder box. I miss the green summers back east. Green is alive. Miserable just living inside with air conditioning.

 

Can you give the church ladies a simplified Readers Digest version? I say that as I still search for the "understandable medical explanation". I tell people that a new doc figured out that I was getting wrong medications for many years... immune system... fatigued. I will not use the term "depression". I refuse to spread that fallacy any longer.

 

It will resolve. I am recovering from many more years plus endocrine failure.

 

Several people have hit this wall recently. I wonder if it may be seasonal in some way.

 

BTW, father in law has been going downhill. Very lethargic, losing weight, etc. Just learned today he's on simvastatin. Classic statin reaction.

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Jemima

Jemima,

 

This is the toughest one for me and such a strange "crash" after the "anxiety/overdrive phase". Just when I got used to trying to calm down, I went the other direction and NEED that surplus of energy. You are having the kind of summer I'm used to and DREAD. 100°+ months of dead, scorched earth. A tinder box. I miss the green summers back east. Green is alive. Miserable just living inside with air conditioning.

 

Unfortunately, this *is* back East. This is even worse than a bad, snowy winter. The heat and drought are just not letting up.

 

Can you give the church ladies a simplified Readers Digest version? I say that as I still search for the "understandable medical explanation". I tell people that a new doc figured out that I was getting wrong medications for many years... immune system... fatigued. I will not use the term "depression". I refuse to spread that fallacy any longer.

 

 

I'm working on something like that. I like the phrase "neurotoxicity from prescription drugs" the best so far. Most people have had a bad reaction to prescription drugs at one time or another, so that's more understandable than "antidepressant discontinuation syndrome".

 

It will resolve. I am recovering from many more years plus endocrine failure.

 

Several people have hit this wall recently. I wonder if it may be seasonal in some way.

The reassurance is greatly appreciated. I've had occasional flickers of normal emotions over the past few days, so I'm hoping this will be over soon.

 

 

BTW, father in law has been going downhill. Very lethargic, losing weight, etc. Just learned today he's on simvastatin. Classic statin reaction.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds very much like the pseudo-depressive episode I had two years ago. Statins are every bit as dangerous as antidepressants.

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Barbarannamated

You arent used to the "dead heat" as I call it. All vegetation dies. Very otherworldly.

 

Can see the eyes glaze over at the mention of "antidepressant discontinuation syndrome". And Tom Cruise ranting. :o

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Jemima

We did get a good, drenching T-storm last night and some green patches have reappeared in the yards, but it's still miserably hot. I've never been a summer person and I wonder if a lot of the malaise I've been feeling has to do with that. It's also a tough time to get involved in activities because many are suspended for the summer.

 

My 'church lady explanation' needs some work. Still not comfortable with it.

 

What's with Tom Cruise, other than being involved in scientology? I don't watch TV or follow celebrities, so I'm really out of it there.

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Barbarannamated

He has spoken very publicly against psych drugs and while I do not disagree with what he said, I believe his "delivery" of the message was inappropriate. Many who speak out now are accused of being affiliated.

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Barbarannamated

Bump

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RebelMaven

Thanks for bumping.  I was just going to do that to this thread as this is a huge issue for me right now.

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Barbarannamated

I realize this has been an issue for me for many years while on SS/NRIs and after losing work. I signed up for, joined and paid for many activities, classes and groups and then never attended.

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RebelMaven

I have boxes and boxes of DVDs and books that are thousands of dollars worth of educational courses I bought and I have never looked at any of it.

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Petunia

So this is why my recently purchased art supplies are still in their bag.

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