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Viper73: Need help please on paxil

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viper73
I was on a medication for depression,anxiety, and panic attacks for 2-3 yrs
than I went off the med , but 2 yrs later I relapsed, than I started to take 30mg paxil.
- On Paxil 30mg for 15 yrs
than I tapered it off around aug 2013
went down to 20mg for 3 month
than 10mg for 2 month
than 5mg for 2 month
than 5mg every other day for 1 month
than 5mg every two day for 1 month
than 5mg every there day for 1 month
than 5mg every four day for 1 month
than 5mg every five day for 1 month
than 5mg every six day for 1 month
than 5mg every 7 day for 1 month
than 5mg every 8 day for 1 month
 
July 30 2014- Went on vacation- I took a 3 day bus ride, then a wk later, i took an 3 day bus back. On the way back all I was very anxious and had very negative thoughts. I had a panic attack on the bus so I took a 5mg of paxil. When i get back home,  it didnt go away and havent slept in days. Anxiety, despression panic attacks got worse.  Went to go see family doctor, now i am back on paxil 20mg daily.
 
Aug 10, 2014 - 5mg (on bus)
Aug 11, 2014 - 10mg (at home)
aug 12, 2014 - 20mg (after seeing dr)
so here I am taking 20mg of paxil again daily.
I think I tapered down to fast, because i didn't know better.
 
-This is the second time I try tapper off
Tapper off 20mg for 11 months
went down to 10mg right now.
when I was on 11mg I was ok but I just start the 10 mg 10 days ago April 25, 2016
Right now I having anxiety attack and depression.
what Should I do. go back up to 20mg or Stay on 10 mg.
I am doing this on my own I don't have a doctor and should I go see a psychologist or a doctor better.
 
If you have any suggestions or advice, please feel free to post.  thx
Edited by scallywag
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SquirrellyGirl

Hi Viper, I'm glad you found us here at SA!

 

I'm having a little trouble following your dates on the tapers.  Did you FINISH your taper in Aug. 2013 after spending 15 months coming off?  How did you feel while doing this, especially when you began skipping days?  And you were off between Aug. 2013 and Aug.2014?  Before the bus incident, how did you feel throughout that year?

 

So, you then tapered down by 10 mg over 11 months - how did you accomplish this?

 

You took a nice long time to come off the first time, and did ok for a year, it seems, before having the panic attack and negative thoughts on the bus.  We don't recommend skipping days as a way to taper because it is very destabilizing to the nervous system.  We recommend a 10% taper per month, based on the last month's dosage.

 

I think your nervous system became sensitized to tapering from having gone off and then back on, and your taper exceeded your nervous system's ability to keep up.  How long had you been at 11 mg?

 

You have two choices:  Either updose back to 11 mg, or hold at 10 mg for a good while and ride out the withdrawal symptoms.  Do NOT go back to 20 mg.  This is your choice, as only you know whether the level of symptoms you are currently experiencing is bearable.  Usually, the symptoms will well up after so many days post taper, hang around for a week or so, and then fade out such that you feel relatively ok, again. 

 

I am including a link below about the 10% taper, so please read.

 

I'd like for you to fill out your signature block so that people can see at a glance what your history is.  Instructions are here:  Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature

 

This is your intro thread where you can ask questions about your particular situation, give updates, express concerns, etc.  By clicking Follow above, you'll be notified anytime someone responds to your thread.  You can also bookmark your Intro so you can find it more easily.

 

I am going to give you some links to get you informed about withdrawal and the 10% taper method that we advocate here.  We are about coming off the meds with harm-reduction in mind, keeping folks comfortable and functioning while on their journey.

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

  

 

I am happy that you have found us.  You will find SA a very supportive environment!

 

SG

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SquirrellyGirl

I did some editing to my post so hopefully, Viper, you will have seen the final version!

 

SG

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viper73

Sorry about the confusion,

I was on paxil 30mg  for 15 years (1998 - aug 2013)

I first started to tapper from 20mg on aug 2013 for 15 months down to 0mg

I was feeling ok, no anxiety or depression. Until I went on the bus.

After that I relapsed. the I went back on to back on 20 mg mid aug 2013.

started my second round of tapering  may 2015. I took 1mg less every month.

I was at 11mg until apr 25 2016

started 10mg apr 26 and that was when i started to feel the anxiety/depression symptoms come back.

I am wondering if I should wait it out at 10mg or go back to 11mg.

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ChessieCat

Hi Viper

 

Welcome to SA.  You've found the right place for support and information about tapering and withdrawal symptoms.  As SG has already mentioned the decision to updose is up to you.  Can you put up with the symptoms you are getting?  These helped me to understand why a slow taper and holding to stabilise is recommended and about how the brain has to adapt to getting less of the drug and might help you to make your decision about whether to updose or to stay on your current dose:

 

Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

"I am doing this on my own I don't have a doctor and should I go see a psychologist or a doctor better."

 

Many members here are tapering without having a doctor supporting them.  That is why iit s so helpful being here because you can get the support from peers who understand what you are going through.  You will need to be able to get a prescription for your drug and reading these might help you:

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?


How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

However it might be a good idea to learn techniques to deal with the anxiety, panic attacks and negative thoughts.  You can do online mindfulness and/or CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) or you might prefer to learn these by seeing a therapist.  I did an online workshop 18 months ago and just before Christmas I was able to use concentrated deep breathing to stop a panic attack and then go out to the shops.

 

Books and audios by Dr Claire Weekes are excellent, especially since she suffered from anxiety herself.  Here are a couple of links to things that you might find helpful:

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

And a couple of others:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Anxiety Coach

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viper73

some one told me to do this

 

- my doctor switched me to prozac to taper off the paxil because prozac has a very long half life. Was able to take the prozac for a few days and then just stop without the horrid withdrawal.

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viper73

Oh should I take supplements or herbs to go to sleep.

And what supplements is good

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viper73

Sorry one more question, is it normal to have withdrawals symptoms from tapping of the Paxil

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Petunia

Welcome Viper,

I'm glad you found us. Did you see the replies from SG and Chessie? Have you had a chance to read through any of the links? There's good background information there which will answer a lot of your questions and help you to understand safe tapering and withdrawal.

 

Here is our Paxil tapering topic:  Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

If I were you I would hold where you are for now and wait until your symptoms subside. Spend some time reading the information here so you get a better understanding of safe tapering methods, then hopefully in another month or two you will have stabilized again and can resume tapering using the 10% of the current dose method. Your last cut was fine, and within 10% , but the fact that you experienced some symptoms this time means you may need to slow your taper from now on.

 

Its been about 2 weeks since you made your last cut, are your symptoms getting worse, improving or staying about the same. Its a good idea to keep notes on paper, rating your symptoms and their intensity, so you can get a clear picture of your pattern of improvement. In general, after a cut, any symptoms settle down within 2 - 6 weeks. If they last longer than this, you may need to start making smaller cuts, perhaps going down to 5%.

 

Many people experience withdrawal symptoms from stopping psychiatric medications too fast, not everyone, but a large enough percentage do, enough to make this a very busy web site. If you read through some of the introduction topics you will find others with a similar experience. But if you learn how to taper properly, paying attention to your body and symptoms if they emerge, its possible to come off your medication with minimal discomfort, it can take quite a long time though, so you need to be patient.

 

We have several topics about supplements and sleep and not everything seems to work for everyone, so its a matter of trying something and seeing how you go. Many people find  fish oil and magnesium helpful, see King of Supplements: Omega 3 Fatty Acids (Fish Oil) and Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

Here is the link to our symptoms and self care section, you may find some useful ideas to help manage symptoms as you taper and recover.  Especially read the topics pinned at the top.

 

It would be great if you would put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature. Doing this helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts. Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

Petunia.

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viper73

Thank You

SquirrellyGirl, ChessieCat and Petunia for the help.

I am just scare right now. Do alots of people have withdraw symptoms when they are taping off.

I am taking Melatonin 10mg to go to sleep.

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ChessieCat

Hi Viper,

 

I can understand that you a scared at the moment.  When you have experienced bad withdrawal symptoms previously it does make you worried that it is going to happen again.  However, the reason to taper slowly is to try to keep withdrawal symptoms to a minimum.  If you start getting unbearable withdrawal symptoms when you taper it may be because you reduced your dose by too much or you might not have held on a dose for long enough.  It takes 4 days for the drug to get to a steady state in the blood.  You still might get windows and waves during the holding period.  You need to listen to your body, learn to be patient and try to keep stress to a minimum to allow your brain to do what it needs to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

Even though a 10% reduction is suggested here at SA, sometimes that can be too much.  This happened to me and because I could not cope with the symptoms of ear pressure and pain I decided to increase my dose a small amount (I was on 75 mg and tried to drop to 67.5 mg but by the 3rd day the pain was unbearable so I updosed to 70 mg).  Since then I have been reducing by less than 10% and even though I have been getting a small amount of discomfort when I drop I am able to put up with it.

 

It is a good idea to keep a record of your symptoms when you reduce your dose.  That way if you have issues you can post the details of what has happened and we will be better able to offer suggestions.  The main thing is to go slowly and not try and rush things.

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viper73

my symptom today (may 09, 2016)
1 to 10 scale

anxiety 6

depression 6 (crying a little)

anger 3

confusion 5

insomnia 10 (can sleep for almost 2 day but after taking melatonin 10mg went to sleep)

suicide 1 

hurting someone 1

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viper73

I have a question? option 1

Should I go and take the sort cut. (scare I might hurt myself or my love ones at my house)

go to rehab center for Inpatient care for 42 days.

they will tapper it off and detox within 42 days and they will test my blood and give me supplement to take.

when I finish the 42 days I will see them once a week to see my progress (will be on supplement). If I relapse they will let me back in for 2 weeks stay.

cost alot of money.

If I relaspe I just take another anti depession with longer shell life. (this part scare me)

 

option 2

buy Fisher Wallace Stimulator

will this help my withdraw symptoms.

and keep on fighting this battle.

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viper73

my symptom today (may 09, 2016)

1 to 10 scale

anxiety 6

depression 6 (crying a little)

anger 3

confusion 5

insomnia 10 (can sleep for almost 2 day but after taking melatonin 10mg went to sleep)

suicide 1 

hurting someone 1

sorry i need edit this

insomnia 10 (can sleep for almost 2 day but after taking melatonin 10mg went to sleep) should I take melatonin in 3mg instead or taking 10mg to high

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KarenB

Hello Viper,

 

Unfortunately there is no-one who will be able to get you safely and quickly off drugs.  The safest way is what the others have told you above - going slowly  to allow your w/d symptoms to ease up a bit, allowing you to complete your taper without rushing. 

 

There is discussion about Fisher Wallace here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4829-alpha-stim-fisher-wallace-sota-biotuner-pons-and-similar-devices/page-9 in which some people found it useful for some but not all symptoms, and others did not find it useful at all.

 

Melatonin You may be taking too much, which can make some symptoms worse. 

Large doses of melatonin do NOT aid sleep -- they might cause your oversensitive brain to wake up, instead. I found when I took more than 2mg of melatonin, I was weepy in the morning. If you get this or a paradoxical reaction, it's a sign you're taking too much.

 

Are you taking magnesium and fish-oil?  As mentioned above they do help a lot of people. 

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viper73

Should I tapper down 10% or  5% on paxil every month.  is 5% to slow?

dropping from 20mg to 11mg in 9 months nothing happen. until I drop to 10mg, thats when I started to have

withdraw symptoms. Will the withdraw symptoms go away in time? Like waiting 6 weeks before I do another

drop to 9mg Or Go back up to 20mg and do it more slower this time around? If I go back to 20mg this will be my

second time resinstate is it ok to do. and drop really so this time like 5%

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ChessieCat

Hi Viper,

 

I suggest that you DO NOT go back up to 20 mg.  When people taper slowly they can still get withdrawal symptoms (but they are usually mild), but if they taper quickly or go cold turkey their symptoms might be very bad.

 

Suggestion No 1:  If you can live with the symptoms you could wait 4-6 weeks (from 26th April) and see how you feel before deciding to drop again; or

 

Suggestion No 2:  You could updose to 11 mg, see if it relieves your symptoms and then wait 4-6 weeks (from when you go up to 11 mg) and then reduce your dose again.

 

We can't decide for you.  Also when you reduce next time you could try reducing by less than 10%  and see what happens with your symptoms.  It might be better to start reducing by lower amounts from now on.  Many members here have had to start reducing by less as their dose gets lower.

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viper73

Sorry to all the peoples here who help me, it so hard, I went back on 20 mg again today too reinstate and I decided to stay on 20 mg for the rest of my life. I was on the antidepressant for total of 23 years. I have no side affects when I am on 20mg. This is my third try and I give up. I have to accept what I am.

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Petunia

Thank you for updating viper, I'm sorry you have decided to go back on your full dose, but you have to do what you feel is right for you. I'm just wondering, why were you trying to come off your medication?

 

Please would you update your signature with this reinstatement.

 

How are you feeling now you are back on 20mg?

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viper73

My full doese is 30 mg, I will stay at 20mg

I don't want people think I am weak so that why I want to get off it.

When I reinstate the first time to 20 mg it took me 2 weeks to get better (intense withdrawal)

This is my second time reinstate back to 20mg (bad withdrawal)

I think it will take me one week to get back to my self again.

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SquirrellyGirl

Hi Viper, 

 

Please don't feel bad for reinstating and "giving up."  You need to do what is right for YOU.  

 

I think you could benefit from some work to handle emotions and self-image.  You shouldn't do anything out of worrying about what other people think.  You are worth doing things because it is the right thing for YOU.

 

You might look into cognitive behavior therapy if you haven't before.  There's lots of free self-help CBT on the web, and meditation/mindfulness are also very beneficial for depression and anxiety.  Even though you have reinstated, you could still benefit from the information in this link:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

You did such a great job of tapering down to 11 mg without too much trouble, so maybe in the future you can do that again, if you choose, only this time perhaps holding for longer periods along the way.  Even if you never get off Paxil entirely, it will definitely be in the best interest of your health to eventually lower the dose.  For now, though, just focus on getting stable again, and somewhere down the road, maybe you'll want to try again. 

 

We wish you the best!

SG

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viper73

Right now I in the emergency hospital for suicidial watch,

I am at the hospital for 10 day at 20mg of Paxil, I really need

You guys help right now please, my symptoms is can't sleep

Crying a lot and suicidial and homiced thought, should I

Stay at 20 mg for another week or go up to my full dose 30 mg

If 30 mg don't work, should I ask the psychiatrist to test my blood

To see want antidression works for me so I could switch the med.

Any help would do please.

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SquirrellyGirl

Viper, I am so sorry you are at the hospital and having all these disturbing symptoms.  At least you are safe right now.

 

How did your symptoms change from pre-reinstatement to post-reinstatement?  I am worried that your reinstatement was too large, and that you are very sensitized.  Checking with the other mods.

 

SG

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savinggrace

Hi viper73,

 

Someone will come along soon to help you.  In the meantime, know that the best advice you are going to get here.  Is 20 mg. an updose?  Looks like you were on 10 mg. last you reported.  When did you update?

 

Hang in there.  A moderator will come along soon.

 

Grace

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Petunia

I'm sorry you are in hospital Viper, but as SG mentioned, you are safe and being taken care of. I agree that 20mg was probably too high a dose for your sensitized nervous system. Your slow taper down to 10mg would have enabled your body to make some adjustments, so the big jump back up to 20mg has probably been quite a shock.

 

With any change in medication, whether its in dose or a switch to a different drug, stabilization can take anywhere from several days to several months and during that time, symptoms will fluctuate, being better on some days, worse on others, but gradually improving.... that's if the change was a good change.

 

Smaller changes are easier for the nervous system to handle, this is why we suggested you only updose to 11mg rather than 20mg.

 

Are you still taking melatonin?

 

When did you updose to 20mg? Since you increased your dose, would you say your symptoms have improved, got worse or stayed about the same?

 

edited.

Edited by Petunia

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viper73

The first time I jump back to 20 mg it's work for me, this is the second time I am jumping

Back to 20 mg, I hope this will work?

My pre instatedment was crying and can't sleep, my post instatedment right now is suidial thoughts, some homicedail thoughts,

And Crying a lot.

When my thoughts think about the word kill I say built a house, when the word murder pop in my head I say murder she wrote,

When stab pop in my head I say slap the hand I change the word around

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SquirrellyGirl

How are you doing today?  Do they have someone counseling you there?  You are aware that these thoughts are due to the chemical imbalance caused by the large drug increase and see that they are not rational thoughts.  It's the people who don't recognize that something is wrong as they have these thoughts that have to be worried about!

 

I've had those horrible flashes before, and they are disturbing to be sure!  Changing the "channel" has worked the best for me.  Granted, this did not stick around and I'm sure it won't for you either; as you stabilize, those thoughts will go away.

 

Are you crying about anything in particular?  Or is it just happening?

 

Remember to treat yourself as you would a frightened child; lots of self-love and nurturing.

 

SG

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SquirrellyGirl

Viper, how are you doing?  What has been going on with you at hospital?  Were you given any other meds?  Were any changes made to your dosage?

 

SG

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viper73

I take 20mg of Paxil at 9pm, around 11pm I take two zopiclone (sleeping pill 15mg) fall asleep for 2 to 3 hours when I wake up around 3 am I take one Ativan 1mg so I could fall back asleep for another 3 hours. I cry for no reason I think I just have couple of episodes a day, or sometimes I don't have all day

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Altostrata

Hello, viper, are you out of the hospital? How are you feeling now?

 

Spells of weeping are common when someone has had withdrawal syndrome. It may take some time for your nervous system to stabilize.

 

I am concerned about the zopiclone and Ativan, are you taking them every day?

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SquirrellyGirl

Hi Viper - how are you traveling today?

 

SG

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viper73

I am still at the hospital, they up my dose of Paxil to 40mg yesterday, and I am taking 2 zopiclone 15mg and 1mg Ativan a nite to go to sleep. been taking zopiclone and Ativan for a month now. if Paxil 40mg is not working for another 2 to 3 weeks then they will switch me to Prozac.

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viper73

My doctor told me that I have to stay on the meds forever

In my life, when I get better I will switch doctor and wait a year to start tapping of slowly with the new doctor help, I am on this Med for around 23 years, can I get off this med, and I want to know is there a lot of people's on the med for more than 20 years and they get off it. Please help me I just want answers, I try two time tapping my self and I lost. You the third time will work

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scallywag

Viper73: There are several people who post here at SA, including a moderator or two, who have long histories of being on psych drugs and who have successfully come off them. You will probably be able to do that too if you learn from what's happened with your attempts to go off Paxil. You've learned that skipping days between doses didn't work (2013), fast reinstatement and taper caused some upset in 2014. This time you learned that 1 mg/month may be too fast for you. You've got lots of good information and experience for when you try again after being stable for several months. Your work now is to trust yourself in your discussions with your attending doctor at the hospital.

 

Try not to worry about coming off the drugs. Get stabilized first. Get well first.

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mammaP

Hello Viper, I was first prescribed a benzo at 19 years old, after that on and off various drugs but not for long. 23 years ago I started paxil and that was the beginning of a nightmare and many years of drugs. I would be in hospital and have drug after drug added, increased, decreased, stopped, new ones started, also ECT. Ended with effexor for 13 years, I tapered very slowly without my doctor, who said I needed the drugs for life. 

 

I hope you are home now and improving. I agree that you should not think about tapering again for a while, then when you are stable you can start a slow steady taper if that is what you want to do. We will support you when you are ready.  Let us know how you are. 

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