Sweeper2: Abruptly taken off klonipin

[Sweeper2]

I missed a dr appointment. Was told to come back in 3 months for refills. My dr said that since it went over the 90 days he now can't prescribe me klonipin anymore or any controlled substance. I've been on klonipin since 95 , .5 mg x2 a day. Now I'm forced to quit cold turkey... I'm taking atenelol for my heart and citalapram. Afraid of side effects from the klonipin??? Should I worry or just go on.. Thank you in advance...!

[apace41]

Sweeper2,

 

Welcome to SA.  Sorry you have to be here.  When did this all happen?

 

What your doctor is doing is unconscionable and has the potential to result in a major malpractice claim for your doctor.  The knowledge of Klonopin withdrawal is not a secret and we know that after long-term use, especially, abrupt withdrawal can have significant adverse consequences, including seizure.  You should not just "go on" -- you need to address this.  First course of action would be to pull some citations from basic medicals sites and call his office and advise him that if he won't prescribe you will hold him liable for any adversity that results to you.  Second course of action, if he doesn't write the script, would be to try another doctor that you go to who might write you a script to "carry you over" until you find a new doctor.  Third course of action would be to go to the emergency room and explain what has happened and try to get a script to carry you over.

 

This is not something you should simply ignore.  While the likelihood is that you will go into withdrawal with discomfort and not have dramatic issues like seizures, the magnitude of the risk (though small) is too significant to just leave it alone in my view.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Sweeper2]

This happened yesterday.I asked if I have to get a new doctor now and he said if it's that important to you. He then advised he would take klonipin off the list they prescribe me so other places could prescribe it. Then proceeded to say I could go to "Urgent Care" or the ER if I had problems and they could give me a script or something to help with withdraws until I find another doctor or just stay off it. I was hoping that the citalapram would help with any side effects. Guess I'm just nervous to wait and see about side effects or just go and get enough to last until I find a doctor. Just don't have time for this. Absurd rules they have now.

[apace41]

they could give me a script or something to help with withdraws until I find another doctor or just stay off it.

 

This is what you should do while you find another doctor.

 

I was hoping that the citalapram would help with any side effects.

 

While an SSRI like Celexa might help "cover" some of your symptoms, after 20 years on Klonopin it would be, in my view, a mistake to rely on that in the face of what can be very difficult withdrawal.

 

Just don't have time for this.

 

Pardon me for sounding like a jerk, but you don't have anything in your life that is MORE IMPORTANT than this right now.  If you need convincing put "Klonopin withdrawal" into the Google machine and read for a while.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[apace41]

Further to the foregoing, if you are not aware of Stevie Nicks (of Fleetwood Mac fame) story regarding Klonopin withdrawal, read below.  May help give you the picture.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/nicks.htm

 

Andy

[Sweeper2]

I'm just wondering how bad going off .5mgx2 a day will be. It's the lowest dose.. I mean my twin brother is on 1mg 3x a day so I can see that being a problem. With work ..it's hard to miss a day to go to a dr or urgent care. Then trying to explain to my manager that I'm on a controlled substance that I need to go get might not go over well. It just sucks.. I'm a service technician so calling off or missing days messes things all up. So frustrated.. Thank you for your replies..I just wish I knew how bad the withdrawal will be or if it will be..?

[apace41]

I'm just wondering how bad going off .5mgx2 a day will be. It's the lowest dose..

 

Just because it comes in .5mg pills doesn't make that the "lowest dose."  I took .25 2x a day and when I stopped for 2 days to get some vestibular testing done it was horrible.  Klonopin is one of the strongest of the benzodiazepines.  It is 20x as strong as Valium so you were on the equivalent dose to 20mg of Valium.  Doesn't seem like such a low dose when you say it that way.

 

With work ..it's hard to miss a day to go to a dr or urgent care. Then trying to explain to my manager that I'm on a controlled substance that I need to go get might not go over well. It just sucks.. I'm a service technician so calling off or missing days messes things all up.

 

All the more reason to stay on the Klonopin and then, if you want off, taper off in a proper and careful manner.

 

I just wish I knew how bad the withdrawal will be or if it will be

 

Yes.  The $64,000 question.  Nobody can tell you how your personal situation will be.  From people who have absolutely no issues to people who are in horrific shape for years and all manner in between.  My guess, given that you have been on for 20 years, you would not have "no problem."  But that's just a guess.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Sweeper2]

I've called 3 Dr,s so far and either they aren't accepting new patients or they don't prescribe klonipin and Urgent Care said they don't prescribe klonipin. So I guess the ER is only choice.. Pay 900$ for them to maybe prescribe some or say they don't either.. How can a dr just stop medication like that???? For a missed appointment??

[apace41]

Call your original doctor and tell him that you need a 7 day script to give you enough time to find a new doctor.  If he won't provide it you should advise him you are going to report him to the medical ethics board.

[Brandy]

I've called 3 Dr,s so far and either they aren't accepting new patients or they don't prescribe klonipin and Urgent Care said they don't prescribe klonipin. So I guess the ER is only choice.. Pay 900$ for them to maybe prescribe some or say they don't either.. How can a dr just stop medication like that???? For a missed appointment??

 

Please take seriously what apace is advising. It is absolutely true that this has to be your priority right now, Horrible that your doctor handled this the way he did (inexcusable IMO), but the reality is that you have to deal with the situation that happened. If you didn't give required notice that you couldn't keep the appointment the doctor has every right to charge you for the time they'd reserved for you, but to fail to provide enough medication (and advice) for you to find a new doctor shows your doctor is either extremely ignorant or unbelievably callous.

 

One long chance might be to call your local hospital(s) and find out if they have detox doctors who see outpatients in private offices. (If they don't have a detox unit, the ER might be able to advise you by phone if they know of someone who can help you promptly.) Most detox doctors give taper schedules far too fast (and too large drops in dose) based on our experiences here, but at least they should be aware of the hazards of cold-turkeying.

 

Since you didn't mention wanting to get off the med, you would have to be careful explaining to a detox doctor that you aren't planning to taper off the med at this particular time and need assistance in avoiding cold-turkey withdrawal. But if they could see you briefly (would cost for office visits, but hopefully less than an emergency room visit), it would tide you over til you find another doctor and you could also discuss your med situation and learn more, even though you might chose to stay on the med at least at this time.

 

(Is your recent doctor a psychiatrist or a family practice or GP doc? Any MD can prescribe the med; it doesn't have to be a psychiatrist. Some people aren't aware of it so thought I'd make sure you knew that.)

 

Also, I'd advise you to use the term "discontinuation symptoms" rather than side effects, to make clear to them it's not that you're having problems from the med (assuming that's the case) but concerned about the safety of stopping the med without proper tapering.

 

btw, I don't want to scare you, but withdrawal symptoms (due to the body's having altered to function with and expect the med) can occur quite quickly or take as much as weeks to manifest. (The latter was the case with me.) Do you have any insurance coverage of any kind? And one more question - do you have any klonopin left at all; if so, how much?)

[Sweeper2]

I have no klonipin left and was told again by my "family doctor" this afternoon that its up to my discretion if I think I'm in need of the "ER". He said by me missing my appointment, he cannot by law prescribe me anymore klonipin or other controlled substance anymore. And then followed up with " if I can get through the next 5-7 days I'd be fine, and I might surprise myself." Next I think will be the ER. I have to work again Sat all day and then it'll be Sunday..then back to work Monday.. Really no clue what to do besides try calling or going to ER if withdraw gets bad.

[nz11]

I mean my twin brother is on 1mg 3x a day so I can see that being a problem.

 

I also share the concerns of Andy and Brandy. This is serious.

 

Here is the thing your brother appears to have  a supply of klonopin right? so can you use some of his until you can get some more of your own.

 

or could you get an emergency tie over from your pharmacist these people are surprisingly clued up on what doctors seem blind to.

 

Is your twin brother an identical twin ?....well identical or not do you both have the same doctor? Can you send him in to perhaps get another refill early or claim existing supplies got lost on holiday?....etc etc. lets get creative here if need be. Your doctors actions are beyond negligent.

[Shep]

Sweeper, just like the others, I am very concerned that you are coming off long-term Klonopin use cold turkey. This is potentially very, very dangerous. 

 

This link is from benzosupport.org and provides some information on benzodiazepine reinstatement:

 

http://www.benzosupport.org/notes_on_reinstatement.htm

 

That article states there is a 4-week timeframe for benzo reinstatement; however, from my own experience as well as what's frequently reported on the benzo withdrawal sites, it's best to reinstate within 2 weeks for best results. So I hope you are able to obtain your medication quickly. 

 

As apace mentioned, Klonopin is an extremely potent benzo, so please don't let the small dosage trick you into thinking it's safe to simply stop after long-term use.

 

We have a great benzo section here with lots more information:

 

Members only benzo forum

 

The Ashton Manual will give you more information on what to expect with benzo withdrawal:

 

The 2002 Ashton Manual is at http://www.benzo.org...anual/index.htm

 

The April, 7 2011 Ashton Manual Supplement is at http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

 

My psych drug history is more extensive than most, but even after many cold turkeys over the years (even cold turkey and rapid taper benzo discontinuation), I'm still healing. I know this is a lot to take in, but none of this is permanent. We do heal in time. 

 

Once you get settled in here, please fill out a signature with all of your medication history so we can see at a glance where you're at:

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

[Sweeper2]

I mean my twin brother is on 1mg 3x a day so I can see that being a problem.

 

I also share the concerns of Andy and Brandy. This is serious.

 

Here is the thing your brother appears to have  a supply of klonopin right? so can you use some of his until you can get some more of your own.

 

or could you get an emergency tie over from your pharmacist these people are surprisingly clued up on what doctors seem blind to.

 

Is your twin brother an identical twin ?....well identical or not do you both have the same doctor? Can you send him in to perhaps get another refill early or claim existing supplies got lost on holiday?....etc etc. lets get creative here if need be. Your doctors actions are beyond negligent.

Here in Ohio, they are very strict. I know my pharmacist won't prescribe any and my brother has to be seen for his and he is paranoid of lending any out.. even if i did, with the way things are going.. he wouldn't have enough to tie me over for any reasonable amount of time..

As of now I think my only option is to wait until I get some serious withdrawals and go to ER.. and to be honest, I really doubt they will prescribe me any klonipin either. When I went off tramadol due to being hospitalized for ulcers and low hemoglobin.. my old doc stopped my tramadol and i had to go off it cold turkey and the ER only gave me some kind of muscle relaxant to calm down the "restless legs syndrome" I would get if i didn't take my tramadol for my back.. (I have a bad back as well).

So far the withdraw I do feel is a very "heavy head/ fog" type of feel.. lovely as I am a technician and do work with electrical and a lot of driving.. 

my fiancee' is on the side of " If you think about it all the time you will make your own withdrawals" and "the ER won't do anything, so it's a waste to go" .. 

I'm at a loss right now as so far my calls to dr's and Urgent Cares are useless... 

[AliG]

Sweeper .  At this point , I think you have got to get pro- active. You have been offered a few suggestions , and opinions on how to handle this situation. If you are working 6 days a week , but have to go to E.R on a Sunday then so be it . Go and demand that they listen . I think you have to prioritize your health over work. It is unfortunate that your fiancee is not helpful , however this is your choice and your life. I would start to get a bit tough and start demanding to be heard. What your doctor is doing is an outrage.

We empathize and understand. Now, it would serve you to be very assertive in this regard. 

Ali

[Shep]

Here is a list of benzo-wise docs:

 

http://www.benzosupport.org/benzo_wise_doctors.htm

 

There are listings under Ohio:

 

Ohio

 Leopold, Ken MD - Brockett & Leopold 400 Matthew st #220, Marietta, OH 45750740-374-4273 or 800 Pike St. #2, Marietta, OH 45750 740-373-3960

 

 James Thomas, M.D.Cincinnati Ohio (513) 231-8000 Ext. 109

 

 Dr. Damon Whitfield, Liberty Osteopathic Clinic, Columbus, Ohio (614) 792-2199

 

 Dr. Daniel J. Weber, 820 Delta Avenue, Cincinnati, Ohio 45226-1221 (513) 321-9902.

 

 

You may also want to check the surrounding states, as well.

 

 

 

Sweeper2, on 14 May 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

 

 

So far the withdraw I do feel is a very "heavy head/ fog" type of feel.. lovely as I am a technician and do work with electrical and a lot of driving.. 

my fiancee' is on the side of " If you think about it all the time you will make your own withdrawals" and "the ER won't do anything, so it's a waste to go" .. 

I'm at a loss right now as so far my calls to dr's and Urgent Cares are useless... 

 

 

 

 

This "head fog" you're describing is a very common withdrawal symptom from benzos, especially rapid taper and cold turkey withdrawal. It can take 6 months to several years to completely clear up for many people. I'm almost 2 years off a 10-week taper from 2 mg of Klonopin and still experiencing waves of extreme memory loss called anterograde amnesia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia

 

Try reaching out to the doctors listed and see if you can get some leads. Consider this a medical emergency. This is NOT something that will go away simply by thinking about something else, as your fiancee says. This is a real medical emergency. 

 

As I stated in my previous post, there's about a 2 week window for reinstatement, so the sooner you can do this, the better. 

 

 

 

[Sweeper2]

What is the 2 week reinstatement period? What does that mean?. I'll try looking for docs and try the ER but hate wasting $$ on an ER visit if they do nothing. I've been proactive calling around but have never gone off my klonipin before..so it's new..I have had to quit tramadol cold turkey but got through those withdrawals..I was up to 300mg a day on tramadol over 2 years..then had to quit.

[Shep]

What is the 2 week reinstatement period? What does that mean?. I'll try looking for docs and try the ER but hate wasting $$ on an ER visit if they do nothing. I've been proactive calling around but have never gone off my klonipin before..so it's new..I have had to quit tramadol cold turkey but got through those withdrawals..I was up to 300mg a day on tramadol over 2 years..then had to quit.

 

The 2 week reinstatement period means you're less likely to continue on with severe withdrawal symptoms if you can reinstate within 2 weeks. You're much more likely to stabilize and be able to set up a careful taper to minimize symptoms. The longer you wait, the less likely reinstating will work. Since you are working and driving, this may be the best course of action.

 

I've known a number of people on benzo boards who were able to get a week or so worth of benzos from an ER, which could buy you some time. 

 

There is a possibility of seizures and other difficult symptoms. That's why we are all cautioning you about going cold turkey. 

 

I would try calling those doctors and getting as much information as possible.  Please let us know how you're doing. 

[Sweeper2]

OK thank you ..

[AliG]

We are all worried and concerned about you . Knowing what we do , there is some angst . You seem to be in a tenuous position.  Please let us know how you go .

[Sweeper2]

Going to try ER later after work.. Somebody should be able to do something.. Can't see a dr just stopping then no one else helping..

[Shep]

I'm glad you're going to the ER, Sweeper, and I'm sorry you're in this predicament. Having the additional cost of an ER trip on top of everything is a hard hit to take. 

 

But in the long run, it will be worth it. Please check back in after your visit. 

[Sweeper2]

I went to the ER. They immediately agreed that my doctor should have weened me off and not stopped abruptly. He gave me a months worth, 30 1mg tablets. Then gave me a doctor's office to call Monday which he said should be able to get me in. So in hopes I can get in and get back on track or maybe ween me off it.

[apace41]

THAT is great news, Sweeper.  You should not have been put in that position but trust me this is the smart way to go.

 

Step 2 -- find a new doc.

 

Step 3 -- report your old doc to the state medical licensing board.  Save a life.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[nz11]

 

Step 2 -- find a new doc.

 

Step 3 -- report your old doc to the state medical licensing board.  Save a life.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Brilliant i couldnt agree more.

 

Must be some people at that ER with some common sense then. Glad to hear.

Im pleased for you.

[Sweeper2]

thank you for all the kind words and help. I probably wouldn't have gone or would have waited to long to seek help without you guys.

[Shep]

I'm so glad your ER trip was successful.  Ideally, it would be best to wait until you completely stabilize before starting a taper, so hopefully your new doctor will be on board with this. Are you also wanting to taper off your other meds? 

 

Many people find that after they come off certain meds, they don't need the others. For example, once I came off antidepressants and stimulants, I no longer needed benzos, z-drugs, and antipsychotics. 

 

With regards to Klonopin and other benzos, many people are prescribed these after going on meds like the Citalopram you're on due to side effects such as ramped up anxiety or insomnia. Or it's the reverse and after being on a benzo - which is a central nervous system depressant - they end up being prescribed an antidepressant to cover the side effects of the benzo. It's a rather vicious circle which can be difficult to break. But it's much easier once you have the right information. 

 

If you are interested in coming off the other meds, let us know and we can better direct you to specific links on the forum for this information.