BAT: Is it anxiety or withdrawal?

[BAT]

What has anyone taken for pain going through withdrawal? It's pain I believe from TMJ or clenching.  Jaw, teeth, ear , head, neck pain.  

Has anyone developed TMJ or bad clenching in withdrawal? 

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Rosetta]

Bat,

 

Hi.  I have to go somewhere right now.  So this will be quick:  You are experiencing normal WD symptoms, in my opinion.  I clench my jaw a lot and have pain in all the same places.  The clenching is getting less bothersome as time goes on.  I can relax the muscles if I try and I don't wake up with a headache very often these days.  I use ibuprophen or heating pads.  I try to avoid ibuprophen if I can.  Your pins and needles that you wrote about on Jan 4 are also very common WD symptoms.  This is not to say that you shouldn't have them checked out, please do, but I doubt there will be any results.  I had an MRI of my head and neck.  It showed nothing.

 

Later, Rosetta

[BAT]

2 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Bat,

 

Hi.  I have to go somewhere right now.  So this will be quick:  You are experiencing normal WD symptoms, in my opinion.  I clench my jaw a lot and have pain in all the same places.  The clenching is getting less bothersome as time goes on.  I can relax the muscles if I try and I don't wake up with a headache very often these days.  I use ibuprophen or heating pads.  I try to avoid ibuprophen if I can.  Your pins and needles that you wrote about on Jan 4 are also very common WD symptoms.  This is not to say that you shouldn't have them checked out, please do, but I doubt there will be any results.  I had an MRI of my head and neck.  It showed nothing.

 

Rosetta thank you for replying.

How long have you had this?

Do you wear a night guard?

[Rosetta]

I should wear a night guard.  I don't remember when it started.  It's been years and years, but WD made it much worse.

 

The pins and needles and numbness I've had only since March or April or maybe even May of 2017.

[BAT]

18 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I should wear a night guard.  I don't remember when it started.  It's been years and years, but WD made it much worse.

 

The pins and needles and numbness I've had only since March or April or maybe even May of 2017.

 

Thank you again for responding. I really appreciate it.  

How long have you been off medicine now?

 

You clenched before you started medicine, or when you started? Then it got worse when you stopped? Do you clench every night? Do you do it during the day? You haven't ever wore a night guard? I have one but it broke in half months ago. I wear half of it.  The other half doesn't stay in. That's the side I clench more too. I really need to get another one.  I have tried to get the ones you buy and mold yourself and none of them worked. I couldn't mold them right. So money out of the window. Have you noticed anything that helps, or just time?

 

Pins, needless and numbness where do you have that at? Is it everyday?. 

 

What other symptoms do you have?

 

Do you notice improvements still?

 

Thank you again!

[Rosetta]

1 hour ago, BAT said:

 

Thank you again for responding. I really appreciate it.  

How long have you been off medicine now?

 

You clenched before you started medicine, or when you started? Then it got worse when you stopped? Do you clench every night? Do you do it during the day? You haven't ever wore a night guard? I have one but it broke in half months ago. I wear half of it.  The other half doesn't stay in. That's the side I clench more too. I really need to get another one.  I have tried to get the ones you buy and mold yourself and none of them worked. I couldn't mold them right. So money out of the window. Have you noticed anything that helps, or just time?

 

Pins, needless and numbness where do you have that at? Is it everyday?. 

 

What other symptoms do you have?

 

Do you notice improvements still?

 

Thank you again!

 

I believe I started clenching my teeth when I was taking Celexa (between 2001-2011 - before Zoloft).  I got a night guard at some point.  I think it was before 2003.  However, after severe WD started (July or Aug 2017), the clenching got worse.  Now, it comes and goes away during Windows.  I can't find my night guard.  I bit through it at my front teeth (and the spare also) long before I started Zoloft.  My opinion is that Celexa caused bruxism (jaw clenching/grinding) or made it worse.  

 

Pins and needles are not as frequent as before.  I now have a "sensation" in the same areas that isn't as intense as pins and needles, but my foot still falls asleep sometimes.  This "sensation" is less frequent now that I have frequent Windows.  If I read, use this forum, or write my muscle tension gets worse and so do the sensations, and once in a while pins and needles and numbness.

 

The sensations are occurring on the same side as where I clench my jaw -- the right.  My nose, eye, cheek, and tongue, my fingers, my arm, my elbow, my hip, the front of my lower leg and my foot and toes all feel "funny."  My theory is that there is muscle tension in my neck that is pressing on nerves.  This causes the sensation, numbness and pins and needles all up and down my right side.  Using a heating pad helps and taking ibuprophen helps, but I try to avoid that.  I'm worried that any thing I take internally will cause worse WD symptoms.

 

Lifting weights to use the tense muscles seems to help.  This includes the muscle in my chest. If you look at a diagram of the neck and shoulder muscles you can see how they connect with the chest muscles and those that operate the jaw and run up to the temples.  They all affect each other.  

 

My other symptoms are anxiety, cortisol awakenings, depression, low stress tolerance, poor cognitive functioning (making decisions, sorting, organizing, setting priorities), and I believe these cognitive issues were caused by Celexa, made worse by the cold switch to Zoloft (kindling), made even worse by the constant increase in the dose of Zoloft (kindling) and intensified by the cold turkey from Zoloft.  I had very good cog function before I took Celexa.  Before Celexa, I had simple depression, but I was able to do what I needed to do and manage my life.  

[BAT]

Rosetta - Thank you for your reply.

 

In January I had issues with my right side where I couldn't feel cold or hot sensation. Also my right side was hot but cold (kind of like an icy hot sensation) from my hand, arm, right stomach, hip and thigh area and it also hurt when I touch it.  It was hard to shower because the water would make it worse when I got out. That did get better after a few weeks. Now I have on my left side, hand and arm I would describe it More like a buzzing sensation, and also after a shower this gets worse.  Does anyone have any idea why this would be??

 

The half of night guard I where on the right side like where the last tooth is looks like I'm clenching there but the rest of the guard looks fine.  The left side that I can't wear has more clenching marks around where the last couple teeth are.

I have a crown that came out last month and the dentist said I bit a hole through it (left side).

 

Do you go to a chiropractor?

Do you do any type of stretches?

[BAT]

Hello.  Was looking for advice. 

 

My daughter, which is 15 is going through depression right now.  There are days she is fine and days she is depressed and mad..

Our lives have changed a lot because of what's going on with me (i believe due to these medicines, but sometimes do doubt it after its been going on so long). She does see a therapist.  When she gets in that type of mood she doesn't want us to help her, she doesn't want to talk about it, she just wants to be by herself.  I have told her, so has the therapist about natural ways to help, but she doesn't do them.  Seems like she doesn't want to try and help herself either.  Today at her therapy session all they talked about was medication.  Medication was brought up in the past but it was a no. It's was brought up again.  How can I agree to medication for my daughter when I have such bad thoughts about them.  I can't even go back on myself to see if it would help me. How can I tell my daughter to take it.  Do I leave the decision up to my daughter and my husband?

This started about a year and half ago.  Another thing is her period is so irregular, she gets it, she doesn't, etc.. Her doctor said to wait another year to see if it regulates (which would be toward end of this year).  She has had blood tests done, vitamin d was a little low (starting to taking vitamin d) her vitamin b12 was fine, thyroid was fine, iron a little low (going to start iron the week she has her period) and CBC and CMP were fine.

How can I get her to really try these natural ways to see if they will help her..  She has a sun lamp.  Soccer season is starting at school so she will be more active, she doesn't want to exercise at home. Talked about trying to eat healthier, yoga or mediation but she doesn't want to even try them. She does want art supplies because she like to draws so we are getting those for her this weekend.  

I know what I'm going through doesn't help her but that is not the full cause of what's causing her issues.  

If I wasn't  going through what I am (and in my heart I believe a lot of its from these medicines) and a doctor said my daughter should try medication to help her, I probably would have had her try it.. 

Also, her therapist is on Prozac so she is for medicine..

 

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

Thank you.

[Rosetta]

Bat, 

 

Please, please, please try to avoid your daughter going on medication.  I understand that you aren't sure about whether you are experiencing WD because it's gone on so long.  I think that's natural if you have not had time to do the research that I have.  I KNOW this is protracted withdrawal not just because of SA.  I have looked everywhere to determine whether this website's theories hold water.  They do.  What we have is PAWS (protracted acute withdrawal syndrome).

 

There is no way I would ever consent to my daughter taking ADs -- none whatsoever.  You don't have to listen to me.  Have you seen DrugFreeProf's thread?  Her daughter's thread is here, but she's too (replace think with sick) sick to use it.  Have you seen Distraut's thread and his son Akrontes' thread?  There are many threads here of parents who are desperate and trying to help their children through adverse reactions to antidepressants or PAWS or tachyphylaxis.  Please reach out to DrugFreeProf.  She's a psychologist and she now teaches her students about protracted WD and the necessity of a very slow taper.  What she has been through with her daughter has been atrocious. 

 

Consider this: would you be asking this question if you weren't worried about your daughter having serious problems caused by ADs?  You need to know that there is a common progression after people are put on ADs.  It is very, very important that you understand this before you make a terrible mistake: the patient goes on ADs, she misses a dose or a week of doses, (or she experiences an adverse reaction or tachyphylaxis) and she becomes unstable or has depression or anxiety return.  So, she is put on another AD (a switch) or benzodiazepines, or both, and she becomes more unstable.  If she has any symptoms at all of bipolar disorder or psychosis she is put on an antipsychotic.  The other drugs are rarely taken away or maybe they are, but eventually the patient is likely to end up on all 3.  She becomes addicted to all three.  This progression can also happen if she has a bad reaction to the AD or the benzo.  The number of times I have seen this sort of history in the threads of the people on SA!!!  Ask the mods how many times they have seen it.  There is probably a topic about it.  This is why I think ADs are so dangerous.  

 

Even if the ADs work for some people a bad reaction to the ADs is "treated" in ways that further damage the patients CNS.  Destabilization of the CNS can happen only days or weeks after a person starts ADs.  Please look up the threads of people who had a bad reaction.

 

It is an absolute outrage to me that doctors damage our bodies with drugs and then misdiagnose adverse reactions, tachyphylaxis and withdrawal symptoms and then further damage our CNSes with their "treatments!!!"  Can you ensure that a 15 year old will faithfully take her medicine and not go into withdrawal? Can you live with the consequences if she has a serious adverse reaction?  Can you live with the consequences if she experiences tachyphylaxis (poop out)?  Tachyphylaxis is how this started for me, I believe.  What happens in 2-3 years when she is no longer under your control?  How can you be sure she will take her meds consistently then?

 

My advise: run as fast as you can as far as you can from this therapist.  Provide your husband with information about adverse reactions.  The fact that it has been determined that a warning be put on all ADs except Prozac that say it is dangerous to give them to teens and young people should be reason enough for anyone to avoid all ADs.  The company that manufactures generic Prozac has some unfair advantage that as allowed that drug to cobtinue to be given to children and young people. There are people on SA who have been destroyed by Prozac.  It is not safe.  

 

Quite frankly I would not trust the advice of anyone who is on Prozac, and I think you sense that that's an issue or you would not have mentioned it.  This is because of my experience with it and the way my husband has described my reactions and confusion while on ADs.  It wasn't until I was off the drugs that I was able to understand how confused my thoughts were.  If my husband hadn't known me since before ADs, I'm not sure I would feel he was right about his perceptions, but he has.  I have an outside source to corroborate everything I think -- everything I've been through -- and to tell me when I'm mistaken.

 

As far as your doubt that you are in withdrawal, I don't really know why the term PAWS isn't referred to on SA.  There must be a reason, but I see no difference between the reported symptoms of PAWS and what I have been experiencing.  The complaints of other members are so much like mine and so much like PAWS.  We must be going through the same thing.  I was never an alcoholic, and I didn't use opiates or heroin or cocaine.  The only drugs other than ADs that could have caused PAWS was barbiturates.  They couldn't be the cause because the last time I took a barbiturate was in 1996.  That was 5 years before I started on ADs.  I took them for headaches caused by a cracked vertebrae, and I don't think I had too much trouble getting off of them.  It wasn't easy, but it was absolutely NOTHING like this!! Also, I don't believe that I was addicted to the benzos.  I was very, very careful not to get addicted.  They were prescribed to me after I had severe anxiety during my last year on Zoloft. This was 4 years after my switch to Zoloft.  I believe that because I was in withdrawal from Celexa since 2011 that the benzos kindled my CNS and so did every raise in the dose of Zoloft.

 

(In fact, as to the benzos, I was using 0.5 mg no more than once every three days when I went to a new doctor who prescribed 1.5 mg EVERYDAY and forced me to sign a contract that I would take them as prescribed.  Of course, I knew better -- Thank God!  That ignorant doctor didn't ascertain whether I was addicted first.  If Inhad done as she required I would have been addicted within 2 weeks!!!

 

What I believe we have is PAWS, Bat.  PAWS (protracted acute withdrawal syndrome) is recognized by the medical community for addicts of alcohol, barbiturates, opiates such as heroin, cocaine, and now benzodiazepines.  PAWS occurs after acute withdrawal and is characterized as being a psychological issue primarily as opposed to the physical issues common in acute withdrawal.  It seems to me that ADs cause an even more horrible PAWS condition of both mental and physical symptoms.  It is only a matter of time before it is recognized by the greater medical community for people who took antidepressants.  Nonetheless, I have very little hope that they will accept that the method of treatment is to taper slowly or refrain from use of nearly all medications to avoid kindling.  THAT is why I feel the using ADs is so dangerous.

 

Yours,

Rosetta

 

P.S. Convince everyone to wait until your daughter starts sports again.  Without sports activity in the winter I would have had depression every year in high school.  I did as Freshman.  I was suicidal.  Then the last 3 years when I had a winter sport I didn't have depression.  Give her vitamins, magnesium and all the amino acids needed to make neurotransmitters.  I'll try to find that info for you.  You see, we aren't suppose to be active in Winter.  This is what I think the problem is: It's not natural for our bodies to be active in Winter.  It's not the way our ancestors have spent the last several hundred years in the northern latitudes. It's stressful for us to go at the same pace in the Winter as we do in the Summer after we reach maturity.  We have to give our bodies a lot of extra supplements (and sunshine and activity, too) in order to cope with this unnatural state of being.  We have to provide extra building blocks of neurotransmitters.  Some of us do better than others.  I think teenagers are particularly vulnerable because they have to get up too early in the morning and go to school all day.  Younger kids seem to be able to handle it better.

[apace41]

That sound you hear is the sound of a standing ovation for what will, in my view, be a surefire "Best of SA" post.

 

Thanks, Rosetta.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[ChessieCat]

Light boxes for depression and sleep disorders

[ChessieCat]

I have a 30 year old daughter who is taking Zoloft (I think possibly for 5+ years).  I am very concerned that it may poop out in the future, or may even be beginning to poop out.  I am worried that the doctor will increase her dose, change her drug or add a drug.  I have tried to talk to her about SA.  But she doesn't want to know.  Quite possibly medication spellbinding, or just that she is numb and hasn't got the energy to care.  I've been there and I know exactly what it is like so I understand.  She knows I am a moderator here and I've told her to speak to me if the doctor changes anything.  I'm just hoping she heard enough to remember that in the future.

 

A couple of good books to read are Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker which has the history of psychiatric drugs and Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Dr Peter Breggin.

 

This is a series by him:  Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin

[apace41]

8 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I have a 30 year old daughter who is taking Zoloft (I think possibly for 5+ years).

 

I have a 28 year old daughter taking it as well.  She went off just prior to taking the medical boards and was studying and started having major issues with anxiety, akathisia and sleep.  She wound up going back on in order to get through the boards and the early stages of medical school (career change).  She understands the issues and is concerned on a lot of fronts, including becoming a mother some day.  She went on in her teens when I was on and doing well on the same med.  If I knew then what I know now I'd have never allowed it but you can't go backwards.

 

BAT, you have the chance with full knowledge.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Rosetta]

Chessiecat'sCat and Bat, 

 

My mother is on Prozac.  She started taking it just a couple of years ago.  She's all ready seen its effectiveness wane and the doctor increased the dose to 20 mg from 10mg.  (Not 15 mg, not 11 mg -- 20!!)  The research before Prozac was approved showed that it was effective at a maximum of 5 mg and beyond that was of no use.  You can ask nz11 about thus.  He found this information, (The reason the starting dose was 20 mg was for profit most people think.  I think it was for increased dependence thereby ensuring continuing profits.  I really do.). Needless to say, I'm very angry that the doctor did not start her at 5 mg.  I know that it's only a matter of time before she reaches the maximum dose.  I've told her to never raise the dose again, but I know she will, and I know she is doomed.  She's 75, and she will not be able to withstand the stress of a taper.  She's going to reach tachyphylaxis eventually or be switched to another med.  I try not to worry about it now, but I expect her to go through WD.  It's just a matter when and how bad it will be.  I'm not going to be able to care for her.  There are a lot of reasons for that, but I'm very angry that these drugs are being prescribed to elderly people.  The tachyphylaxis issue is huge.  It's an utter tragedy that the proper care for children and the elderly who have become dependent on or injured by ADs falls upon the parents and children of the patients while a greedy, unethical medical profession refuses to properly prescribe these meds and properly treat the dependence that results.

[mammaP]

1 hour ago, apace41 said:

 

I have a 28 year old daughter taking it as well.  She went off just prior to taking the medical boards and was studying and started having major issues with anxiety, akathisia and sleep.  She wound up going back on in order to get through the boards and the early stages of medical school (career change).  She understands the issues and is concerned on a lot of fronts, including becoming a mother some day.  She went on in her teens when I was on and doing well on the same med.  If I knew then what I know now I'd have never allowed it but you can't go backwards.

 

BAT, you have the chance with full knowledge.

 

Best,

 

Andy

I also have a daughter taking sertraline (zoloft). She is 32 and started it after c/t citalopram and suffering PAWS.  When taking citalopram she developed OCD, her dose was increased and it became worse. She did not recognise it as OCD just being very clean and tidy. Then she decided she was coping and didn't need it. She c/t'd and turned into a different person. She became abusive and argumantative, even towards me and we had always been very close, never fell out but talked through our differences and allowed each other our own opinions.  Her husband left her and she went to pieces, not just because he left but she was suffering terribly with withdrawal but wouldn't acknowledge it, thinking it was a breakdown and went on sertraline. 

 

After a while she started to improve but still had 'waves' and each time was given diazepam. Then amytripilene, lyrica which she stopped after a few days now seroquel has been added.  She jumped into a new relationship and was married within weeks, I believe that was the sertralene affecting her decisions. Now she is pregnant, and separated from the abusive new husband who forced the pregnancy on her because he wanted a baby and she didn't while she is taking drugs.  She is in a terrible position, under so much stress with police and social services involved. Homeless and staying at a friends.  She wants to stop the drugs but can't because she is suffering from severe sickness and when she tried she had insomnia and then parasomnia where she acts out her nightmares.  The doctor has told her the drugs are safe in pregnancy. 

 

She is going through a lot but rather than helping, the drugs are making it worse but withdrawal would be even worse than this when she has 2 children to care for.  Until she gets into a new home, which will be very soon, I am poweless to help.  Watching your child change before your eyes and go through the same hell that you have been through is heartbreaking. I am dreading when the baby is born and she has all the hormone changes which led to the citalopram after her second baby. 

 

Teenagers are still developing, their brains are not fully mature. Their bodies change and along with that are hormone fluctuations, mood swings and, these days self harm, which seems to be a trend among young ones.  If she is short of D3 this is caused by lack of sunlight. I suffer every winter  and wouldn't get through without my light box. As Rosetta so beautifully put it, it is NORMAL in winter but the times we live in do not allow us to listen to our bodies, and sleep when we need to.  If we are very tired and lack motivation it has to be mental illness!  Science has now proved that a teenagers body clock changes and it is normal to sleep until lunchtime and go to sleep at silly o'clock.  Yet society forces them to go against that and keep hours that are abnormal to them 

 

Then there is the stress of exams and major life changing decisions, what career to choose, exams to take, college to go to. Which university will accept me.  All at a time when they wre still developing. Anyone who struggles with all this is 'mentally ill. There are ads everywhere that are trying to raise awareness of mantal illness in children. Getting people to recognise it and get them the right 'treatment'.   A drug rep turned whistleblower once said they they were taught that if they got them as children they had customers for life.  They know that and make normal into mental illness.  If you have ever filled in a depression chart it has questions and you get points for each answer. They are added up to give a diagnosis. Anyone, in fact almost everyone would come under the 'depressed' category if they had an even mildly stressful couple of weeks, and they only ask about the last 2 weeks. If I filled one in right now I would be locked up along with most of us here! 

 

Your daughter will get through this, all things are transient and this too, will pass. 

 

 

[BAT]

Thank you everybody that has responded.  It's very much appreciated!

 

I'm not on board about medicine at all.  My daughter says she doesn't want to take it but won't say what the reason is.  It may have something to do with me, or may not and might be another reason.  She told her therapist she doesn't want to take medicine and also wouldn't tell her why.  Her therapist is aware what is going on with me and why I think it is. I sent her my whole story.   But I guess her being on Prozac she probably doesn't believe it. I also sent links to websites including this one and she probably didn't look at them, I don't know.  Maybe that's why she told my daughter she is on Prozac to tell her it's ok.  I think my husband is confused on what to think about these medicines.  If I knew what I do now I definitely would not have gone on anything..  I know we can't turn back time.  I pray she will get pass this and try these natural ways to help herself.  

My nephew 22 was on sertraline 100mgs then Prozac 60mg for a total of 7 months. Went on and off no issues.  I had side effects from 12.5mgs of Zoloft and 10mg liquid Prozac.  I'm sure my sister and brother in law can't believe what I'm going through its from these medicines because their son went on and off higher doses and was fine.  Maybe my husband wonders the same thing. 

I just can't believe what these medicines can do to people.  It's absolutely horrible!

 

I wish everyone healing!

[Rosetta]

What a relief that she doesn't want to take it.

[mammaP]

22 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

What a relief that she doesn't want to take it.

Absolutely, I am so glad that she doesn't want to and hope she sticks to it and doesn't let them persuade her. Therapist on prozac, what is that saying?  She has also bought into the chemical imbalance mental illness debacle. 

[wantrelief]

Hi BAT,

 

I am glad your daughter does not want to take medication for all of the aforementioned reasons. Additionally, I would be really skeptical of a therapist who discusses very much in terms of personal information about herself with your daughter, especially that she is taking an antidepressant.....yikes!  The sessions should be about your daughter, not the therapist or any particular agenda the therapist might have (which it sounds like she has).  Unless your daughter thinks she has really benefited from this relationship, I wonder if a different therapist would be better for her.

[BAT]

21 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

Hi BAT,

 

I am glad your daughter does not want to take medication for all of the aforementioned reasons. Additionally, I would be really skeptical of a therapist who discusses very much in terms of personal information about herself with your daughter, especially that she is taking an antidepressant.....yikes!  The sessions should be about your daughter, not the therapist or any particular agenda the therapist might have (which it sounds like she has).  Unless your daughter thinks she has really benefited from this relationship, I wonder if a different therapist would be better for her.

 

I definitely have thought about another therapist for my daughter because of some other things that were said to her. Like for instance the therapist would talk about my situation a lot, she told my daughter she is not living a normal high school girl life because of what im going through,  the therapist told her I need to see someone for agoraphobia, also mentioned medicines for me (even though I told her my whole story and explained how I didn't have any of this prior to).  She kind of mentioned what my daughter is going through has a lot to do with what I'm going through.   I did contact the therapist and told her my daughter is going to see her for her issues not mine and would like her to focus on her and not my situation.  I know my situation doesn't help but it's not the whole cause of what my daughter is going through. My son who is 18  was at a session one time with my daughter because They were supposed to be talking about their relationship and my son told me some of those things the therapist said and he didn't like it.  I was really upset. I feel bad enough how my situation has effected me and my family.   I told my husband I wanted to find another therapist and he is like your situation is going to come up with the new therapist and our daughter would have to start all over again.  This therapist was recommended by friends that talked highly about her.

[ChessieCat]

Very unethical therapist.

[BAT]

Does anyone have vision issues in one eye? I went to the eyes doctor in June 2016 my vision was fine. Withdrawal issues got bad 2017 went for an eye exam this Feb and eye doctor said had slight prescription left eye worse.  I just got my glasses also with bifocal and I can't handle the glasses, actually hurts my eyes. Also like my couldn't get use to them.  I can tell the different with my eyes though, that left eye is worse. Could this be from withdrawal?

[ChessieCat]

I've had some strange things going on with my eyes.  I wear multi focals.  Before my new prescription, as I left work, ie from indoors to outdoors, I would have trouble focusing.

 

Since getting my new glasses I get a similar issue but no longer when leaving work.  It's feels like my brain isn't registering the message somehow.  If I keep trying to focus on something it gets "stuck" and I can't focus but I've found that if I look at something different and then back at what I was trying to focus on then it "snaps out of it".

 

I also found that when I got my new glasses (November last year) it took me a very long time to adjust to them whereas before I had no problems.  That was prior to withdrawal, so I don't know if withdrawal is contributing to the focusing problems, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is.

 

Here's the eye topic:  vision-symptoms-floaters-snow-blurreddimmed-vision-twitching-and-pain

 

[Rosetta]

1 hour ago, BAT said:

Does anyone have vision issues in one eye? I went to the eyes doctor in June 2016 my vision was fine. Withdrawal issues got bad 2017 went for an eye exam this Feb and eye doctor said had slight prescription left eye worse.  I just got my glasses also with bifocal and I can't handle the glasses, actually hurts my eyes. Also like my couldn't get use to them.  I can tell the different with my eyes though, that left eye is worse. Could this be from withdrawal?

 

Me, too.  Right eye.

[BAT]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

Me, too.  Right eye.

 

Do you wear glasses? Is your vision issues from withdrawal? Have you had your eyes tested?

[BAT]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I've had some strange things going on with my eyes.  I wear multi focals.  Before my new prescription, as I left work, ie from indoors to outdoors, I would have trouble focusing.

 

Since getting my new glasses I get a similar issue but no longer when leaving work.  It's feels like my brain isn't registering the message somehow.  If I keep trying to focus on something it gets "stuck" and I can't focus but I've found that if I look at something different and then back at what I was trying to focus on then it "snaps out of it".

 

I also found that when I got my new glasses (November last year) it took me a very long time to adjust to them whereas before I had no problems.  That was prior to withdrawal, so I don't know if withdrawal is contributing to the focusing problems, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is.

 

Here's the eye topic:  vision-symptoms-floaters-snow-blurreddimmed-vision-twitching-and-pain

 

 

I'm confused if this is withdrawal or do I really need glasses. Can someone be told they need a prescription during withdrawal, but doesn't? I have read people that have gotten their eyes tested during withdrawal and were fine, but has anyone been told they need glasses abd once they get better so does their eye sight and no glasses are needed?

[Rosetta]

14 hours ago, BAT said:

 

Do you wear glasses? Is your vision issues from withdrawal? Have you had your eyes tested?

 

I've worn glasses since I was 8 or 9.  Yes, I had my vision checked since WD, I think.  If I feel well enough to go to do that I don't have twitching of my eye.  So, I think the vision reading was probably accurate, but I haven't been there when there was twitching.  The muscles inside my eye twitch sometimes when I read.  I think it's exactly like the other muscles in our bodies during WD.  They tense up or twitch even if you don't notice.  This will affect vision, but it will go away during windows.  And it will go away when this is over.

 

Do you have bruxism on your left side?

[BAT]

9 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I've worn glasses since I was 8 or 9.  Yes, I had my vision checked since WD, I think.  If I feel well enough to go to do that I don't have twitching of my eye.  So, I think the vision reading was probably accurate, but I haven't been there when there was twitching.  The muscles inside my eye twitch sometimes when I read.  I think it's exactly like the other muscles in our bodies during WD.  They tense up or twitch even if you don't notice.  This will affect vision, but it will go away during windows.  And it will go away when this is over.

 

Do you have bruxism on your left side?

 

I don't really have the eye twitching, (I do have twitching in other areas of my body though).  It's more the vision is not clear and worse in the left eye.

Yes I do clench and it is worse on my left side. Does that have anything to do with my eyesight?

[Rosetta]

16 minutes ago, BAT said:

 

I don't really have the eye twitching, (I do have twitching in other areas of my body though).  It's more the vision is not clear and worse in the left eye.

Yes I do clench and it is worse on my left side. Does that have anything to do with my eyesight?

 

 I think it's related.  The muscles on that side are getting signals from the brain.  Everything is connected to something else, and I think the neck, jaw, temple and eye muscles are all connected.  When one tenses or relaxes the others are affected.  

[BAT]

Do our hormones ever go back to normal prior to medicines where symptoms and mood won't be worse before or during our periods??

 

[BAT]

Hello. 

I have a few questions for anyone that wants to reply.

 

I know some people talk about muscle loss but has anyone experienced collagen and elasticity loss of the skin during this?

 

Another question, I have read about Windows and waves.  I am not ever symptom free or feel normal so I don't know what I'm experiencing is Windows and waves but there are days where it's a little more tolerable but that seems to change from one day to the next or even hours to hours everyday And it's been like that for a while.  Can anybody relate?

 

And last question.. As anybody had fear for a while that has gone away? For example, I think from reading so much I have a fear of eating some foods that I haven't eaten in a while but used to eat even up to 5 months off.  Then I started reading so much about foods and diet so I started cutting things out (didn't make me feel any better) so I want to start eating those foods again because I'm trying to gain weight and I miss eating! Can anyone relate and will this go away?

 

Thank you..

[BAT]

Can anyone relate or have any advice for the post above?

 

Thank you. 

[Rosetta]

Hi, Bat.  One, I think all these problems will go away.  Two, yes, I've been struggling with fear of eating the "wrong" thing for months.  It's very difficult to deal with the cause and effect issue.  I go back and forth between whether I believe waves can be avoided by avoiding foods.  Today, I feel they can't be.  That does not mean that the wrong food will not make a particular day less pleasant.  We are sensitive.  We are more likely to react to certain foods.  I don't think most foods cause waves, but some do -- the ones that affect hormones and neurotransmitters.  Which foods are you hoping to eat?

 

I don't know about elasticity of the skin.  What exactly do you see happening to your skin?

 

I'm going through a period when clear windows are very rare right now.  It's incredibly discouraging.  I try to note any positives in order to stay optimistic.  I also notice and note improvements that have happened over time.  Example: I just realized that I'm not as anxious about touching other people as I used to be.  I used to put a lot of effort into avoiding the possibility of bumping into other people, even my husband.  I didn't want him to touch me and having a hug felt very claustrophobic.  That's changing.  It's not completely fixed, but it's better.  It's very clearly better, and I expect that to continue to improve.

 

I've seen other threads in which people were concerned that they had no windows and waves.  It's tough to be without those clear windows because they replenish our hope, but I notice that the troughs are not as deep either.  Sometimes they are deeper than I expect, but often they are more shallow.  The people who want to taper call this lack of swings from good to bad "stabilization."  They hope to be in this state so they can start their tapers.  For you and me it's a bit depressing, isn't it?

 

Rosetta

[apace41]

On 5/28/2018 at 2:50 PM, BAT said:

Another question, I have read about Windows and waves.  I am not ever symptom free or feel normal so I don't know what I'm experiencing is Windows and waves but there are days where it's a little more tolerable but that seems to change from one day to the next or even hours to hours everyday And it's been like that for a while.  Can anybody relate?

 

Hi, BAT.

 

This is my plight for the most part.  I am never "symptom-free" but I have days where things are lessened and others where they are worsened.  I, too, am extremely mercurial in my symptoms and they can shift multiple times during the day.  It makes it very hard to know how and if to go about trying to taper or hold and is discouraging because you never get the "glimpse" into post-healing that so many people reference as a motivating factor.  This past Saturday I had an uptick for part of the day and I refer to it as a "partial window."  It was certainly not a moment of full clarity or anything remotely like that, but is was an improvement so I latched onto it.  It went away by Sunday and I'm back in the muck, but it showed my body does know how to heal and still do something better than my usual baseline.

 

It's very hard to go through this generally, but I understand where you are coming from on this point.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[BAT]

41 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

 

I don't know about elasticity of the skin.  What exactly do you see happening to your skin?

 

Thank you Rosetta and apace41 for your reply.

 

What I see happening to my skin besides loss of muscle tone and fat , skin is sagging, seeing a lot of cellulite and when I bend my arms on the inside of the elbows my skin is loose.  It looks like I have skin of a much much older person. Seems like my skin has thinned also. It gives me a lot of anxiety about my looks. 

 

 

 

 

[Rosetta]

That's from losing weight.  It think it slowly resolve over time depending upon how old you are.  You will get your muscle back and that will help to fill in the wrinkles, too.