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Catbox

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Been on nortriptyline 5 years for pain. Started at 50, got up to 120 last year. Stupidly took herbal tincture which included St. John's wort for a couple of weeks which sent me into serotonin overload. So I stopped it and cut down nortriptyline to 100. I've been in basically a constant panic attack since then, over 2 weeks a ago. Taking the med exacerbates the anxiety, but I can't not take it or I get sick. Can't get into the psychiatrist for 2 more weeks. Primary care have not helped at all. I'm in hell.

 

I would just go back up to 120 except the medication really exacerbates the anxiety. I don't even know what to do now. It will be 3 weeks this Friday and I'm still in a constant state of panic attack unless I take a Valium or Xanax which I am trying to avoid because I don't want to get hooked on benzos.

 

I have been exercising twice a day just take the edge off the anxiety which helps for a couple of hours. I'm on vacation and supposed to be having fun but I am in hell. I have been barely coping at work. I'm supposed to go to train for the position I was promoted to at another office in 3 more weeks. How can I deal?

 

Do I try to go back up to the 120 and then taper much more gradually, even though I wig out when I take it? It used to have a seriously sedating effect. I don't know what's happening! And no one else does either, apparently.

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Welcome Catbox,

I'm sorry to hear you've been having symptoms since adding St Johns Wort to an antidepressant. Its good you realized and stopped taking it.

 

When you say "Taking the med exacerbates the anxiety", what do you mean? Is there a pattern between when you take your dose of nortriptyline and when symptoms get worse?

 

Its difficult to know if you are still experiencing symptoms from your adverse reaction, or whether you are having some withdrawal effects from dropping your dose.

 

When someone experiences any kind of adverse effect from psychiatric drugs, it can sometimes take quite a while for the nervous system to restabilize itself again, sometimes several months. You may have become more sensitive and now 100mg is too much for you, its difficult to know for certain.

 

Your psychiatrist will probably want to add more drugs or increase your dose, but I would be more inclined to stay where you are and try and give yourself more time to recover naturally.

 

Here is the link to our symptoms and self care section, you may find some useful ideas to help manage symptoms as you recover.  Especially read the topics pinned at the top.

 

Many people find magnesium to be calming, see this topic for more information:  Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

Please do be very careful with the benzos. In a nervous system sensitized by withdrawal or an adverse reaction, they can easily turn paradoxical, causing increased anxiety and rebound anxiety when they wear off. It becomes easier to develop a tolerance and a need higher doses. Its better if you can find non-drug ways to manage as you recover.

 

Others may chime in with more suggestions.  Please stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

 

Petunia.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Administrator

Hi, Catbox. Welcome to the forum from me, too. 

 

When I came off nortriptyline about 16 years ago to switch to Wellbutrin, I ended up in physical therapy for 6 weeks due to my muscles locking up after my doctor prescribed what I now know to be an extremely rapid taper. The tricyclic antidepressants act like muscle relaxants, so please take your time coming off and listen to your body. 

 

Here are some links to read over:

 

Tips for tapering off nortriptyline 

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Like Petunia, I would also caution you regarding your Valium and Xanax use - you can become dependent on benzodiazepines in as little as 2 weeks. And they are very difficult drugs to come off of.

 

Please use this thread to keep us updated and to ask plenty of questions.

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Thank you for the replies!

 

Yes I do notice an intense increase in anxiety and discomfort when I take a dose. I have been considering breaking up the dose into 2, rather than taking 100 all at once and instead trying to take 50 mg 12 hours apart. Maybe I will try that tonight,

 

I have been using the benzos in very small doses and judicially, in fact trying to avoid them all together. Like 2.5 mg of Valium once or twice a week. I have an extended release Xanax that is .5 mg which I haven't used in a week. I was going to use it today because we are at Disneyland. I can't belie this all started 2 weeks before our vacation that we planned 2 months ago. I am supposed to meet my husband's aunt in Maryland. I don't know how I will get thru this week. I'm trying to learn a new job at work. I don't know how I am going to do that either. I feel like my life is ruined, and don't know how long this will go on for. I keep waiting to feel better, but I don't.

 

Monday night I just instead started exercising for half an hour at a time to work up a sweat. This seems to lighten the anxiety for a couple of hours. But then it comes back.

 

Thank you again for the replies and the support. And also for having this website. <3

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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Does anyone have experience with valerian root, passionflower and other herbs? I find valerian root does help a bit I want to make sure it doesn't do the same hing to the body that a benzo would.

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • Administrator

I'm so glad you asked about this because valerian is definitely something to avoid with benzos. Here's some info on that:

 

Valerian Root

 

This thread mentions passion flower a couple of times. You might want to do a search and see if you can find more.

 

Herb Teas: Camomile, Ginger, Mint, etc

 

You also mention exercise. Many people find that exercising too intensely, especially later in the day, can exasperate symptoms. But it really depends on where you're at in withdrawing and recovering. Some people find it helps, and some find it makes anxiety, insomnia, heart palps, etc. worse. Many people find going for walks is helpful. 

 

You may want to go ahead and do a little research on benzos. Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate, so it's best to get all of the information you can.

 

Members only benzo forum

 

Petunia posted links above to the symptoms and self care section, which is where you can find all sorts of non-drugs ways of coping. This will help limit the need for benzos, as well as help with other symptoms. 

 

Your life is definitely not ruined. Not by a long shot. Once you get stabilized from the recent drug changes, then set up a slow and careful taper to gradually get off. 

 
Check out the Success Stories when you're feeling discouraged. I find that to be very helpful.
 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Thank you so much. Everyone is so helpful. I really appreciate you all being here.

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Catbox and welcome to SA,

 

Thought I'd drop in and give you some more info which you might find helpful:

 

Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery


What is Happening in Your Brain
 

And I suggest you read these before seeing your doctor:

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?


How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

Also, thank you for completing your signature.  The history you have given there is covered in your first post so I'd like to suggest that you change your signature to make it a summary and include dates, drugs, doses and how you decreased/increased.  This will allow your drug history to be seen at a glance each time you post.  It is also a good idea to update it each time you make a change so it remains current.

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Arrgh, tried to go back up to 120 to start over and do a gradual taper. After 4 days the anxiety reaction to medication is so bad I can't function. I was getting sick in the afternoons from withdrawal on the lower dose. Going to try 110 and hope that is a good medium. Really lost. 

 

I am seeing a psychiatric Nurse practitioner who says she is familiar with withdrawal and tapering, as she went through it herself. Says I likely won't get good help from a psychiatrist. I will be seeing her on Friday. 

 

Does the 4 day rule apply to going back down as well? (It takes 4 days to metabolize an increase, same with a decrease?) 

 

100mg was making me very withdrawal sick late in the day, even when I split the dose.

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • 3 years later...

Titled:  Withdrawals symptoms without dosing change

 

Hello,

 

I have been on Nortriptyline for about 10 years.  Tapered from 120mg to 50 mg 4 years ago.  Been on 50mg since.  I take it in the mornings. 

I refilled a prescription on December 27th, about a week and a half later I started getting withdrawals symptoms in the evening. I didn't know what it was at first because I haven't changed anything med-wise or with supplements. 

 

I started taking some extra 10mg tabs I had left over from my taper. They helped at first but each day since Friday that passed the symptoms are worse, and start much earlier in the day.  I was able to take 30mg extra on Saturday and symptoms subsided.  But today I have needed to take 40mg extra and it is only 2:00pm.  I took 2 at noon and another 2 just now.  

 

I'm taking all these pills and it's like they aren't doing anything! They only thing that is different is that I started a low carb diet about 2 weeks ago. (less then 50 carbs.) and Low calorie, less than 1500 a day. 

The generic manufacturer is the same, that hasn't changed. (I got withdrawals once before when the manufacturer was different.)

Why would I suddenly be getting withdrawals?  The Diet? Faulty "batch" of medicine? 

 

It it not improving even with all the extra 10mgs a day, which are from a different batch. 

Do I just say f-- it and eat a damn bagel? 

 

Thanks for any responses.  

Edited by manymoretodays
moved to introduction from S and S, added title

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • Moderator
On 1/15/2020 at 3:10 PM, Catbox said:


I refilled a prescription on December 27th, about a week and a half later I started getting withdrawals symptoms in the evening.

 

It looks like you are in poop-out, which means the drug is no longer working.  Upping the dose works briefly, but then stops working.  At this point we would recommend getting off the drug, which is no longer doing anything.

 

Tachyphylaxis or As It’s Lovingly Known “Poopout”

 

We recommend tapering no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This link is specifically about tapering Nortryptyline.

 

Tips for tapering off nortriptyline 

 

Please post everything in your main topic in the Introductions forum.  It is important to keep all your posts in the same place.

 

Edited by manymoretodays
removed white space

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.   

March 22, 2022: hold at 4.8mg and shift to Imipramine taper

Aug. 5, 2022: shift back to Valium taper.  

Current dose as of Dec. 2, 2022: 2.6mg

Taper is 86% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Aug. 5: 9.5mg 

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5 and shift to Valium taper

Taper is 87% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Oh ok. Thank you. I will post there. 

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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Is this different than just when you just get used to a drug and doesn't work on your depression or migraines or whatever you were taking it for?  

This is actually just a sudden rejection of the drug that causes withdrawal?  Even after 10 years? 

How can I taper when I am already really sick at the doses I am taking? Won't I get even sicker? 
 

Sorry for all the follow up questions. 

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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I have been on Nortriptyline for about 10 years.  Tapered from 120mg to 50 mg 4 years ago.  Been on 50mg since.  I take it in the mornings. 

I refilled a prescription on December 27th,And about a week and a half later on January 10, I started getting withdrawals symptoms in the evening. I didn't know what it was at first because I haven't changed anything med-wise or with supplements. 

 

I started taking some extra 10mg tabs I had left over from my taper. They helped at first but each day since Friday that passed the symptoms are worse, and start much earlier in the day.  I was able to take 30mg extra on Saturday and symptoms subsided.  But today I have needed to take 40mg extra and it is only 2:00pm.  I took 2 at noon and another 2 just now.  It’s not enough to keep rather intense withdrawal at bay.. nausea, malaise, dizziness, confusion. 

 

I'm taking all these pills and it's like they aren't doing anything! They only thing that is different is that I started a low carb diet about 2 weeks ago. (less then 50 carbs.) and Low calorie, less than 1500 a day. 

The generic manufacturer is the same, that hasn't changed. (I got withdrawals once before when themanufacturer was different.)

Why would I suddenly be getting withdrawals?  The Diet? Faulty "batch" of medicine? 

 

It it not improving even with all the extra 10mgs a day, which are from a different batch. 

I was told in the symptoms forum that this is “Poopout” which is different than just tolerance I guess?  How do I start tapering if I’m already very sick? 

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • Moderator

Tolerance and poopout are the same thing. It means that your body has become use to the dose that you are taking and is trying to work around the drug and return to its natural undruged state. It usually creeps up on a person instead of starting up overnight, but it can also happen quickly.  I suspect that the diet change had something to do with bring it on.

 

There are two things that can be done for poopout. The first is to increase your dose and try to force it to cooperate.  This can work for a while but pretty soon your body will figure out what is happening and it all starts again.  This triggers a spiral of ever increasing doses and less and less stability.  The second is to decrease your dose and let your body start to heal while you help it return to its natural undruged state. This can be a very frustrating process because it can be a long time before you see any real improvement, but it does work.  I was in extreme poopout when I started my taper and it took several years to see any progress, this is not to say you will be the same.  You are just entering poopout while I was already there for a number of years.  I had updosed twice and was still gong down hill when I started.

 

Please don't throw any more extra pills at the situation, this will tend to destabilize your body and could trip off a kindling episode, which you really don't want to happen. I would recommend that you return to your regular dose and stabilize for a couple of weeks to work out the extra pills you've taken, and then start a proper 10% taper.  I highly recommend a 10% Brassmonkey Slide as it is fairly quick and minimizes the WD symptoms. If this sounds interesting, let us know and we can help you with the details.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Thanks for the response!  Let me see if I can get stabilized... I've been on this medication for a long time, I don't use it for any pain symptoms anymore. I tapered down to 50mg in 2017 I think, and lowering it anymore just became too difficult so I resigned myself to needing this forever.

My current working theory of this situation is that there is something wrong with that particular bottle of pills.  I have replaced the pills I was taking with some old 10mgs I had, and since doing so my symptoms have stopped. (Just took my regular 50mg dose today, none extra so far *cross fingers*) So I am wondering if the batch of pills was bad, or maybe I left them near the stove for too long? For some reason that bottle of pills was giving me withdrawal. 

This site and all of you helped me a lot the last time I tapered. I am really grateful for this resource. 

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • Moderator

Welcome back Catbox, @Catbox

I was able to locate your introduction from before, and merged you all up.  One introduction per member please.  Very helpful for us, and you as well, to see previous posts and all, and keep your main information all in one place.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

2022 May- continuing with limited activity on site, just something I need to do right now

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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oh ok  great. Thank you!

Been on Nortriptyline for about 9 years. Tapered from 120 down to 50mg 3 years ago. Been steady on 50mg since. 

 

Last Friday I started getting withdrawals in the evenings, now I am getting withdrawals a couple of hours after taking my 50mg pill. Taking extra 10 mgs I have left over,  90mg total per day, still getting withdrawals. Why is this happening? 

The only thing that changed is my diet... I started a low carb/no sugar diet a couple of week ago. 

 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Catbox: catch 22

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