Hello Guys! My name is SuperSteve91, nice to meet you

[SuperSteve91]

First of all, thanks for your wonderful site. I found a lot of info on here that really helps me.

I am currently laying on my bed at my mums house and I don't know what to do. So i've started an account, maybe you guys can cheer me up. (I am crying while I am writing this) 

 

I am in a horrible state at the moment. I lost a lot of weight and muscle, I am feeling numb in my head and I am scared of everything. Scared of my own thoughts, my body, all pills and the future. It all started when in 2010 (I was 19 at the time) I was diagnosed with something, I don't even know what really, nobody told me. At that time I just dropped out of high school, was depressed and anxious. (I think i've been anxious most of my life) I even had thoughts about ending my life, but I never really wanted to. The doctor put me on Lexapro 10 mg and the next day after my first pill I had more energy and calmness, it was great. It didn't do anything about the anxiety but I just took them because I thought they helped me. I went on with my life for several years. I had a job and I had a few good friends and I was quite oke with it. My life didn't progress whatsoever but I could function and even had some great times. Over the years I became more anxious, stopped seeing friends more and more and stayed in my tiny apartment. This was the only place where I could really relax. I also started to have lots of pains and aches, I was sweating a lot more and I gained a lot of weight.

 

In the beginning of 2015 I had more stress because my mind would not shut up. When I was finished with a days work I was still think about everything that happened that day and what I did wrong. It was like the whole day repeated in my head. Soon this over thinking of things was getting out of hand and my stress level rose. At the peak of it all, the tiredness, the stress, and the anxiety (Ive developed more and more anxiety for stupid things, like even going to work at one point made me anxious) I stopped Lexapro within four days. My Psych wanted me to go to venlafaxine but I never did. I stopped lexapro in November 2015. 

 

After stopping lexapro I had a few good weeks when suddenly everything hit me. Panic, insomnia, sweating, intrusive thoughts, restlessness, extra stress and tiredness. I became ashamed of myself and I was so in doubt with myself. This al cleared after a few weeks and I had a few great days where my mind was calm, I could sleep, I could laugh with friends and go out of the house without any anxiety. This window was even better than I could remember being it in all these years. After that I had a few **** days and a few good ones until now, May 2016. I've had al sorts of things happen to me. I've been using benzo's to get some sleep but most of the days I hardly get any. My mind is sometimes very blank and sometimes hyper, Ive had episodes of extreme suicidal tendencies, hot flushes, cold flushes, aches, pains, muscles weakness, depressive episodes, numbness, lots of severe panics, self doubt and shame. I hardly can go to work and go out of the house. What is happening to me?

 

Currently ive been om Ativan 1,0 off and on, sometimes for a week at a time to sleep, sometimes only a few days per week since march 1st. I went to the doctor and he wanted me to reinstate Lexapro, but when I did that last night (5mg) I got super hyper and anxious, almost manic. I jumped around in my bed didn't sleep at all. This morning I took 1mg of lexapro but I got a bit hyper after taking it, that is now subsiding. Ive lost complete control over myself and I am scared for thing to come. For instance every night I am scared to go to bed. What if I don't sleep? Ive looked up info on the internet to the extremes and that isn't helping. After the ativan works out, I get a massive panicy intrusive thoughts shakiness. Or maybe it is just me, not the ativan. What should I do now? Carry on with reinstating lexapro? Stop the Ativan? Stop everything and see if i can do without all the pills? I am so tired now that I nearly don't want to go through this anymore. I am losing my social life, my job and everything. I used to have a lot of passions and enjoyed life. When do i get to my old self again? Who is my old self? Thanks for reading, Steve.

[Shep]

Hi, Steve. Welcome to the forum. You'll find a lot of encouragement and support here.

 

What you're describing are the symptoms of coming off Lexapro way too fast. I think reinstating was a good idea, but many times after you've been off a psychiatric drug, your system becomes very, very sensitive. So even a small reinstatement may be too much. 

 

It takes at least 4 days for your mind and body to fully register the reinstatement, so give yourself a few more days to see where you stand at 1 mg. You may need to go a bit higher or this may be a good reinstatement dose for you. Please read over this reinstatement thread carefully:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 

 

These two links will give more information for how to taper once you are stable from the reinstatement:

 

Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

These links go into detail about what to expect during your withdrawal:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

And here is a link to a number of great ways of dealing with your symptoms without the use of medication:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

Please add your Ativan use to your signature, as this is very important. Ativan is a benzodiazepine, which is an extremely addictive medication that can cause dependency in as little as two weeks for some people. The withdrawal from Ativan can be very, very difficult. We need to get an idea of how much you are taking now because it's possible that will also need to be tapered. 

 

I know this is a lot to read over and take in, but the good news is you are still very young and by the time you heal from this, you will have developed better coping skills for your recovery - and for life in general - and will go on to have a great, drug-free life.

 

Please use this thread to list your symptoms, give updates, and ask plenty of questions. 

[SuperSteve91]

Thanks Silver Star,

 

Ive read a lot of your links already but I will read them again and see if I can get even more good information out of it. Thanks for your quick reply. When I was young I had a stroke and had 7 operations. Now I have a shunt in my head. I can tell you, for me these withdrawals have been more difficult than my 7 operations and my years in hospital. Talking about withdrawal means a lot to me, because al the doctors Ive encountered are the same age or just a bit older than me and don't have a clue what they are talking about most of the time. Thanks

[Shep]

You've definitely been through a lot, Steve. But you have a lot of resiliency, and that goes a long way.

 

Benzodiazepines are tricky medications and can easily turn paradoxical. Once you become dependent, you may be trapped on a medication that not only keeps you awake, but causes you even more symptoms when you try to come off. 

 

In trying to determine how your Ativan fits into the picture, it looks like you were using it prior to your Lexapro reinstatement. And currently you're only using it 2 - 3 times a week. Please write down when you take it because if this escalates, it may be a sign that you're having more problems with the Lexapro reinstatement and using the benzo to "mask" the symptoms. 

 

Are you able to sleep on the nights you don't take Ativan? 

 

 

[SuperSteve91]

Hi Shep,

 

I started using ativan before my lexapro reinstatement because I went days without any sleep. I was devastated and still am, I think. I was able to sleep one or two nights without ativan some time ago but I now have to take ativan just to get some sleep. What is the problem here? Why is my sleep so terrible without ativan? What should I do from now on, for instance tonight? Ive taken 1,0 of ativan last night and had a pretty good night sleep. Also why is it that when I reinstate the lexapro, I become hyper? Thanks shep! 

I also notice that for instance now, like 18 hours after Iv taken ativan that I get a bit restless, and this happens every day.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Steve,

 

I am not a doctor but a survivor of cold turkey off 3 meds. It is my opinion that you should have never been given the lexapro to re-start. I am not sure I can adequately explain but I will try but you have classic wd synrome symptoms now and they took quite some time to manifest. My protracted wd did not start until almost one year to the day after I stopped all my meds and may have been precipitated by my doc giving me a med for what looked like a sinus problem but was actually withdrawal syndrome starting and it made it way worse (it was an rx antihistamine).

 

The problem is that once you are off the meds your body is starting to readjust and it is thrown into the most inimaginable hell as it does so and insomnia is the worst of it. You start taking even a smidge of any drug on top of that and you are asking the impossible of an already de-stabilized system.

 

The only cure for this is time and adequate NON MEDICINE support. You'll live through it but as you say, it's lot worse than the 7 brain surgeries. Don't give in to the horror stories on how long this can last. it is different for all of us but I cannot stress enough that there is no drug known to man that will fix this.

 

I cannot tell you what to take or not take. I believe you were off the lex far too long to re-start it and now it is making things worse even at a small dose. The ativan is only artificially propping up your sleep and is not really helping, you can develop a dependency to it and when it is withdrawn too quickly after you have become dependent, things can be worse. I went without the ability to sleep, really fall asleep and stay asleep naturally for about 4 months. I had no other recourse but to go through it. Many of us have had to do that so we know of which we speak. Most of medicine has not ever acknowledged this syndrome so do not expect much help there.

 

Please read the links you were given, they will explain more of what I am sure is happening to you.

 

One of the problems that come from long term AD use is the body eventually gives you signals to throw it off. I believe that is why you developed the anxiety after being on it. It is at that time the docs raise the dose or throw other meds at the problem the DRUGS ARE CAUSING. Or else patients just stop the drug and are made very sick after their body has this delayed reaction.

 

I don't always watch threads I have commented in so if you want more information there's a lot to be found on the site. You can also use the Personal Messaging system to talk to individual members or just keep asking questions here in your thread. That's the best way to do it, that way everyone sees it and can help and offer support.

 

It gets better, it really does. Fish oil capsules for omega3 (it seems to calm the brain a bit) and magnesium supplementation are the best we have to offer that are usually well tolerated by everyone. Anything else is a cr@p shoot. In this state the body often reacts paradoxically to something a healthy body can take in stride, like supplements of other kinds. The problem is, it is thrown into a constant state of alarm and even your own bodily processes are viewed internally with alarm. That will gradually go away but you have no frame of reference for this kind of 'illness'. It produces the weirdest things but you mention it I guarantee there will be someone here that had the same thing and it went away as they recovered.

 

Read our collection of information and see what you think.

[SuperSteve91]

 Thanks Cymbalta, your info really helps. The thing is that Im already so tired that I don't know if i cant make it through it without another night or nights with no sleep. This means I wont be able to work and will lose my job, and my flat. Should I start to taper that ativan? For instance take half of it tonight already? I Should I stop the lexapro reinstatement? I really don't know what to do. My doctor is not going to help with this, I know for sure. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Steve, listen to me: I cannot give you any medical advice I can only tell you what happened to me and many others that had to live through this because we were on the drugs and got off however it happened.

 

The body can function on little sleep, we know because we have done it. You have to substitute 'rest' for sleep. That means lying down in a darkened room and attempting to stay calm. The body (it sometimes helps to think of it as just a 'thing' and not 'you') will make do with that, you won't die but you'll feel a bit ragged till you adjust. Lie quietly, stay off the computer, if you need some white noise then get some. Eventually you'll get snatches of unconsciousness but it really is enough to keep you going. Eventually sleep will return. You are feeling the restlessness of wd syndrome return after the ativan has been completely metabolized. The time that it returns will probably get shorter as your body develops dependency on the ativan, that's why it's not a good thing to take something to artificially induce sleep. But you are free to continue it as you see fit. We just know from experience it can often make it harder to recover.

 

You'll have to gradually reduce the ativan somehow. You are already starting to panic and think you won't sleep if you stop taking it. You WON'T really get restorative sleep WITH it. But you'll get 'rest' without it and that's what the body will make do with. The body does lots of its adjusting while we sleep, the ativan does not really help but none of us likes not having those blessed periods of 'non awareness'. You'll get the hang of it with practice. Many employers are sympathetic during illnesses, don't automatically assume the worst. That's wd syndrome talking.

 

Look up Dalsaan's thread, she knows about rest.

 

And this is my opinion only: make sure you understand that anything you do is your responsibility and not someone from here. We do not give medical advice nor should you take it if we do.

 

I don't think the re-instatement is likely to help. You were off too long. If it has been less than a few weeks to maybe 2 months then a smidge of the drug usually brings relief from the symptoms within a few days. Then you'll feel 'not so bad' and can taper slowly off.

 

I was off 7 months and because of my medical knowledge and my ability to understand the concept of wd syndrome I knew I could not be helped by the drugs. My first symptoms are what you are having now and I went through them before I knew what they were. The next set were psychologial and they came at 5 months. Found this place at 7 months. The real shite hit the fan at 12 months. I am now mostly recovered at 3.5 years.

 

This is a very difficult thing to weather but we are here for you.

[Shep]

Hi Shep,

 

I started using ativan before my lexapro reinstatement because I went days without any sleep. I was devastated and still am, I think. I was able to sleep one or two nights without ativan some time ago but I now have to take ativan just to get some sleep. What is the problem here? Why is my sleep so terrible without ativan? What should I do from now on, for instance tonight? Ive taken 1,0 of ativan last night and had a pretty good night sleep. Also why is it that when I reinstate the lexapro, I become hyper? Thanks shep! 

I also notice that for instance now, like 18 hours after Iv taken ativan that I get a bit restless, and this happens every day.

 

Unfortunately, severe insomnia is very common, especially when a SSRI is discontinued too quickly.  And then when you re-introduced the Lexapro at 5 mg, your fragile CNS which is now hypersensitive, may be over-reacting to it. 

 

It takes at least 4 days to know the result of a reinstatement. How long were you at 5 mg before dropping down to 1 mg?

 

I'm going to get some feedback from the other mods, especially since the benzo may be complicating things. If you can give a detailed list of the time of day you take each medication along with your symptoms, that will really help. It sounds like both the Lexapro and the Ativan are causing stimulating symptoms (i.e. "restless" and "hyper"). 

[SuperSteve91]

Hi Cymbalta,

 

Unconsiousness that doesn't sound like a lot of fun. You think I am going to faint in bed? That freaks me out. Hope you mean just falling asleep. Haha

 

Shep,

 

The 5 mg of lexapro I took was at 9 pm 1.5 hour before bedtime and it made me jump around in my bed the whole night. I took an ativan to calm me down and had 2 hours of sleep that night.

I skipped a day and this morning I took 1 mg of lexapro at 10.00 am 

I take ativan 1.0 or 0.5 just before bedtime which is around 1030/1100 pm

The mornings are always quite dull and I have difficulty focussing and thinking and around now (5 pm-ish i get some restless legs and a bit of tingling in my arms and I am a bit uncomfortable. I always took ativan before bedtime and went to bed about the same day. But now I feel that my body reacts more quickly after Ive taken a dose of ativan. Only 16-18 hours later I start to get more uncomfortable. Cheers Steve

[Shep]

Cymbaltawithdrawal5600 gave you some really good tips for sleep, so I'll just add a bit more to that. 

 

Here is a really good link with non-drug ways of dealing with insomnia:

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Are taking any supplements? Supplements can be very tricky during withdrawal and can turn paradoxical, so please be mindful of this.  That being said, some people do find omega 3 and magnesium to help calm the CNS and aid in sleep. Here is information on that: 

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

If you are very sensitive to supplements, you may try eating fish to get the omega 3 and using epsom salts to get magnesium (this will let you get magnesium without the GI upset that can come from pills). 

 

This does get better in time. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Ah, you know what I meant. Many of us would have given a left ovary for some kind 'unconsiousness' when the symptoms get bad. But I don't want to scare you with stuff that may or may not happen.

 

Nederlander, huh?

 

One of our earliest members is from there. His story was one I read when I first got here and though I did not follow his dietary guidelines, I intuitively knew he stumbled on the right solution.

 

His thread is here (I don't think he was ever really a member but he had a good recovery story we needed to hear):

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1351-cg-recovered-from-prozac-withdrawal/

 

and the broken link to his story is here:

 

The only success story I needed to read when I got here, now reposted courtesy of the Wayback Machine.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20121206160813/http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-06-Charly-Prozac.htm

 

He's recovered and moved on with his life. That's all we needed to know.

[SuperSteve91]

Thanks Shep and Cymbalta, I am going to read everything! Thanks for the input and the support. I tried magnesium and at first it worked wonders for sleep. But after a month or two I got really dizzy when I took a pill so I stopped it (temporarily) Maybe I am going to start with it again but on a lower dose. (I was taking 500 mg of Bisglycinate a day) How is it possible for you guys to go through years of this. Do you still have your job and a social life? I've lost most of my social life already, people are very short minded. I am going to read the story of de nederlander, thanks!

[Shep]

Shep,

 

The 5 mg of lexapro I took was at 9 pm 1.5 hour before bedtime and it made me jump around in my bed the whole night. I took an ativan to calm me down and had 2 hours of sleep that night.

I skipped a day and this morning I took 1 mg of lexapro at 10.00 am 

I take ativan 1.0 or 0.5 just before bedtime which is around 1030/1100 pm

The mornings are always quite dull and I have difficulty focussing and thinking and around now (5 pm-ish i get some restless legs and a bit of tingling in my arms and I am a bit uncomfortable. I always took ativan before bedtime and went to bed about the same day. But now I feel that my body reacts more quickly after Ive taken a dose of ativan. Only 16-18 hours later I start to get more uncomfortable. Cheers Steve

 

This is really good information, Steve. Thank you. 

 

It sounds like Lexapro is way too activating to be taken at night, so it's good you switched to day time use. Also, please keep in mind how potent Lexapro is. This is from the Tips for Tapering off Lexapro link:

 

Special considerations

A significant characteristic of Lexapro is that milligram for milligram, it is much stronger than other SSRIs. Chemically, Lexapro is a variation of Celexa; the molecule was re-engineered to be patentable as Celexa's patent was about to expire. The streamlined molecule is a more potent SSRI, 2 to 4 times stronger than others. (Wikipedia has a good explanation of this at https://secure.wikim...ki/Escitalopram.)

 

So even 1 mg may be too strong if your CNS is really fragile and just .25 mg may be enough to give you some symptom relief. 

 

Because your use of Ativan has been long enough to develop a dependency, please go ahead and start a thread on the benzo forum. We have a really good moderator named Wellness who checks that section and it would be good to get some feedback there:

 

Members only benzo forum

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I cannot quote properly from this tablet and it hates me anyway so I'll just add a few thoughts sparked by your responses.

 

The glycinate and citrate forms of mag seem to be the best absorbed. In the States they are usually in big honking horse pills, 200 mg per pill. It often helps to break them in half and take them at even times during the day with food and plenty of water (that helps). Men need 800 mg per day, women about 300 but a temporarily higher dose is often warranted in wd. I took 800 mg per day and I tell you, it promoted that 'rest' I was talking about and erased anxiety for me. What happens with some people though is they think they are having a reaction to it: often times the body freaks when you do ANYTHING different. Modern farming methods have leached mag out of the soil and you'd have to eat a truckload of food to get all you need so supplementation of it is always a good idea.

 

Fish oil, if it is cheap quality, can give you stomach upset but it is still good for you. You get the better liquid stuff that has to be refrigerated from the health food stores in the USA.

 

You can try sipping a mag powder called 'Calm' mixed in water but it will give you the poops if you try to get all your mag that way. It is great for immediate relief from high anxiety tho. I never left home without it. Phillips Milk of Magnesia is just what it says, in a pinch you can use a bit of that but just so you know it is a laxative.

 

The body excretes extra mag through the kidneys so unless yours are damaged or your brain stuff is a contraindication, you can gradually resume taking it, just use smaller amounts more frequently. It is also effective for keeping your innards running smoothly because it brings water to the bowel making pooping easier (I know, ew!) but we need all the help we can get.

 

I lost some friends, was kind of retired but I did lose some employment and clients but that's the way it goes. If you lose them it happens, you will survive. I think the Creator watches over us somehow and it seems to work out. Sometimes something better comes in their place. You need to concentrate on staying calm and rested and give your body a chance to heal. Excessive worry is a wd symptom and has to be managed, usually only distraction works. Mental and psychological processes seem to get in an uproar too, they calm eventually. You get used to keeping a tight grip on yourself and tend to minimize outside contact but that's sometimes a good survival tactic. Many have been able to keep their jobs but not all. Deal with that if and when it comes.

 

How did we survive for 'years'? It is not ALL bad All of the time, it waxes and wanes. Time passes, we cope and the body heals. That's how.

 

Figure out how you are going to deal with your drug situation after you have absorbed the info we have given you. You'll make the right decision, you have the time to digest this so don't panic thinking you have to do this all RIGHT NOW AND EVERYTHING WILL BE OK. Nope, does not happen that way. Be informed and be wise.

[savinggrace]

Steve,

 

My heart breaks as I read about the state you are in. I have felt some of the same for 35 years, but I didn't have the information and support that is available to you to get you through this. It sounds like you have your parents or mum as well, so at least you are not alone with this. That said, I palpably feel your fear, pain, and sense of hopelessness.

 

You CAN do this. You just need to trust the people here. All my doctor has done (all my doctors) for 35 years is make me sicker and sicker. Youth is on your side. You need to summon up all the courage that has kept you going, and trust the process. If you do, you WILL get a lot more of those wonderful days back...I know you will. It may not be as soon as you want or need to, but it will happen. Your situation is NOT HOPELESS. Please trust the experts here to help you. No, they are not professionals, but they are in, or have been in the trenches themselves and are in the trenches day and night with others like us. If you went to a convention of psychiatrists, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who understands or acknowledges what these drugs are actually doing to us.

 

After a 15 plus year dependence to benzos, I encourage not to let that get any worse. Likely they are not working therapeutically any more anyway.

 

I am praying for, and rooting for, you. Hope that helps in some small way. As painful as it is going to be, trust the process. You have no other good option. I am 61; I would give anything to go back to my 20's and do what I needed to do then to save my life.

 

Grace

[JanCarol]

Hey Steve - 

 

Your Ativan may be destabilizing you, too.  I'll talk about that in a minute.

 

You can stick with your 1 mg Lexapro for at least 4 days (preferably a week) before you give up on reinstatement.  Or you can drop it again to .25, to see if, after 4 days, that is just enough to get you out of the woods.

 

This is a powerful drug!  Some people are taking crumbs of it and getting effect.  CW is saying you are "too late" to reinstate, but we have had people who have been relieved by this.  Usually, if it's going to work you know right away.  

 

If after 4 days, your symptoms are worse, stop.  If they are better, then you know the reinstatement worked. If it's the same - maybe stick it out until 7 days to see if it's "enough" improvement to continue.  It's up to you to decide what is worse, same, better - as those are subjective terms.

 

Reinstatement doesn't "cure" withdrawal symptoms, it only takes the edge off so that (hopefully) you can get on with your life.

 

Now, the Ativan.  I'm worried about this.  There are problems with benzos, called rebound anxiety and interdose anxiety.  Here's how it works.

 

You know when you have a cup of coffee, and you feel great for awhile - but then you crash?  Same with sugar?  

 

Same with Ativan.  You take a dose, and it sensitizes your brain to the anxiety, and the anxiety returns with a vengeance, worse than before.   This is rebound anxiety.

 

Interdose anxiety is when the pill wears off, and the rebound anxiety builds and builds until you take another dose.  When you say you take ativan to stop a panic attack - I wonder if it is just to stop interdose anxiety.

 

We have a special forum for Benzo problems, as they are different to deal with than Antidepressants and other psych drugs.  Mainly because - unlike antidepressants, benzos are pleasurable, and the potential for addiction is ravaging.  So the protocols are slightly different.

 

I can tell you this: Ativan is strong.  1 mg = 10 mg valium (roughly).  And it has a short half life of under 24 hours.  You are very likely addicted now.  In order to stabilize, you will need to take a regular dose every day, probably 2x a day.  Once you stabilize, you will taper from there (but likely long after you are done with lexapro).  Please start a thread at the Members Only Benzo Forum, read the information there, and start learning about how benzos work and need to be tapered.

 

CG's thread is a very enlightening read.  

 

Welcome to SA!

[SuperSteve91]

Shep, thanks for the info I'll open a thread in the benzo forum.

 

Cymbalta, I will take the magnesium again, a bit less though maybe more frequently a day. There is some fish oil at my mums house, Ill take some. 

 

savinggrace, I cried out loud for a few minutes when I read your post, thanks for the lovely kind words. It means a lot to me.

 

JanCarol, What do you mean by a regular dose 2x a day? And at what time should I take the dose?

 

Im feeling that the anxiety is a bit worse than it was a few hours ago. It peaks just before I go to bed. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Please note that my opinion of it being too late for reinstatement is based upon the fact that the OP stated intially he was off all medication (specifically he said 'lexapro') since Nov. 2015.

 

That's 6 months. I believe significant changes have occurred in his system making reinstatement more likely to cause his body further upset trying to acclimate to the drug again and clouds the issue of whether it is likely to help.

 

That drug is VERY powerful. I was given it one time by a GP. I felt like my brain was on fire, lit up like a Christmas tree. Even at a low dose these drugs have an effect.

 

But I am only a person, not a doc or a mod.

 

I see your questions above, you can only see the Benzo forum from the main page of the site. Click there, make a new thread for yourself and tell them your case. Your question will be answered there.

[Shep]

When Steve came onto the forum, he had already reinstated 5 mg and then gone down to 1 mg, so that's the information we started out with. 

 

Reinstatements can be very tricky.  When they work, it can really help someone. It can keep them employed, save relationships, and all of that good stuff.

 

But when they don't, it can be a setback. That's why it's good to keep asking questions and get all of the information out there first. 

 

These kinds of discussions are good. We really do want to give both sides of the story and make sure all of the information is out there. But since the reinstatement had already been started and is complicated with a benzo, it's best to get all of the information out there and then come up with a game plan for going forward. 

 

Your narrative is an important one, cymbaltawithdrawal5600, and it's a good discussion. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Not quite sure if I am seeing the same info on my screen as everyone else but the 1st post (I just now went back and read it) says he took 1mg last night and 5 mg this morning.

 

I don't know as I would encourage any more doses based on the effect it had on him last night and how he is feeling now.

 

I believe it would be prudent for him to get as much information as possible before making a decision to go against his doc's advice (which I think is ill informed but as you can see I sing in the choir here).

 

I am all about relieving suffering but not at the cost of causing MORE suffering. I've stated my opinion based on the written info on my screen and lest I be in danger of disagreeing with a mod I'll bow out of the discussion now.

 

I took lexapro only briefly and a long time ago but will never forget how it made me feel.

 

Ultimately, Steve is the ultimate pilot of his ship. I don't think his doctor is informed enough to be of help.

[SuperSteve91]

Hi Cymbalta,

 

I took 1 mg of lexapro this morning (21st of may) and I took 5 mg around 2100 on the 19th of may.

[Esperanca]

Steve, you are so wellcome here with all of us wich need one to another

 

You are a hero!!

 

Dont give up, never.

 

You will win. 

 

Have Faith, Faith and Faith. If you dont believe, Have Faith. 

 

I understand so few about everything drugs but i undestand about Hope, Faith and Love.

 

To represent my words see the link: 

 

This is my heart for you. Trust in us from SA. I know is so difficult, but you found the way now. 

 

Stay with God and with us the love you. 

 

Hug you strongly

[Shep]

Steve, cymbaltawithdrawal is bringing up some good points and ultimately, this is your decision to make.

 

But please note that my questions and links for you weren't made for you to think you HAD to continue your reinstatement, but to get more information and to see how the reinstatement was working out. When a member first comes in, we have to provide information and then it's a back and forth trying to set up a game plan. 

 

I won't automatically assume that a reinstatement will or won't work because I simply don't know. And neither does anyone else for that matter, especially within the first few posts of the communication. 

 

This is a process and a very difficult one being done in text communication. 

 

Please keep us updated with your information. You don't need to decide about further actions on your reinstatement tonight because it's best to take Lexapro in the morning. I've already left a message for the other moderations, so you'll get some more feedback. Please let us know how you sleep tonight, as well as if you need to take Ativan for your symptoms. 

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Steve.

 

How are you doing on 1mg Lexapro? Please keep notes on paper about your daily symptom pattern, when you take your drugs, and dosages.

 

This will help us unravel whether the Ativan is causing problems.

 

One of the diabolical characteristics of benzos is that they can go paradoxical. Instead of being calming, they can cause anxiety and sleeplessness. Yet you can still be dependent on the drug and suffer terribly when you stop it.

 

It is possible the Ativan is causing some of your symptoms. But first, keep the Lexapro very regular so we can see if it helps.

[JanCarol]

Steve - 

JanCarol, What do you mean by a regular dose 2x a day? And at what time should I take the dose?

 

Ativan has a half life of 10-20 hours.  That means if you take it every day - you can have breakthrough anxiety every day.

 

Normally, with short half-life benzos, you take half in morning and half at night - about 12 hours apart, if possible.  But you've been taking it intermittently, which is even more destabilizing and someone more experienced than I is needed to suggest what dose you should take as a split dose.

 

So that is a question for the benzo forum.  I think that splitting your dose and taking it every day will help your stability, but I'm not experienced enough to say whether that is .5 am / .5 pm or less than that (I'm hoping it is less).  Moderator Wellness on the benzo side, will be wiser than I am.

[SuperSteve91]

Hi Guys, It is currently 9 am here in the netherlands! Went to bed without taking in ativan 1.0 and had about a 4-5 hour sleep, not to bad. This morning I feel quite sick, Ive got the trots, my face is red, Ive lost some weight and my vision is blurry. I feel nauseas and a bit shaky. So it is deffenitly benzo related, and I think i have suffered from this a few times before thinking it was the lexapro withdrawal. So that is why i reinstated lexapro. I will continue to do so for a few days but I don't think it is going to be of a lot of help. Maybe the benzo is making me anxious. And was making me anxious. And I thought it was the lexapro withdrawal hitting me hard. Anyway should I go to bed tonight without taking an ativan? Should I take half of an ativan today? Or should I just take nothing and stick it out? Maybe the **** is over in a few days! Thanks again for your advice. 

[Brandy]

SuperSteve, I urge you not to abruptly discontinue the ativan if you feel you are physically dependent on it. By "feel that you are physically dependent" I do not mean that you need it for relief of symptoms of other medication withdrawal or any other circumstance. I am referring to whether you experience withdrawal symptoms (including rebound - meaning worsening, not just return of, of original symptoms) at the same interval of time after taking your last dose of ativan. (Some symptoms may occur immediately, others may occur at later hours or even days or more.) But if they're been occurring consistently at certain time intervals, and you've been taking the ativan fairly regularly even if not daily, that would certainly suggest some degree of physical dependence.)

 

I am concerned about what you mentioned in your new Benzo forum thread, that your doctor may not continue prescribing more ativan. I am still somewhat unclear about your past dosing schedule, and also people get "addicted" (physically dependent at different rates. With some people it happens very quickly, with others it takes longer.

 

It sounds like you haven't been taking ativan very long - am I correct that you've been taking it for about two months, even if not daily until recent days? I'm a little unclear, however, whether you've taken it - or any other medication in the benzodiazepine family, such as xanax, valium, or others - on more than an occasional basis in the past.

 

I'll reply further in your benzo forum thread. If you can remember more details about how often you took the ativan - dates and times particularly, if you can remember, that would help. And if you haven't been writing down what medications (including the lexapro) you take each day and at what time, I recommend you start doing that now. Write down the daydate, then each time you take a dose of any medication, write down the time and the size of the dose.

 

It's a bother to do that, especially when you're not feeling well from withdrawal or med side effects. But in the future you will find the information invaluable in evaluating what does and does not work for you over time. As for past use of the meds, write a list like that as much as you can remember, and note that it's an estimate.

[SuperSteve91]

He Guys just a little update: I feel like I have a shot of energy given to me right after Ive taken the 1mg lexapro. It feels unnatural because my body is actually very tired and I have difficulties vacuum cleaning for 10 minutes or going up and down the stairs. I havent had a panic attack yesterday which is good. A bit of anxiety when I went to bed, that is all.  I feel a bit numb in the head (no emotion) and my vision is quite blurred. I get hot and sweaty very easily while doing everyday tasks. It is difficult for me to distinguish why i am feeling what i am feeling. Is it because I stopped the ativan or is it because Ive taken 1mg of lexapro in the morning. Don't feel like doing anything, just be around the house and close to my bed. Thanks for the support. Steve

[Shep]

Hi, Steve. 

 

It's good you didn't have a panic attack yesterday, but what you just reported about feeling "a shot of energy" right after the Lexapro may mean you're dealing with a reinstatement that either isn't going to work or the dose is too high. 

 

Wellness and Brandy are giving you really good advice on your benzo thread. I really think you're dealing with an Ativan dependency and like Brandy, am concerned about you being able to get a supply of Ativan to do a slow taper.  I posted the below from your benzo thread. 

 

I would go ahead and take the Ativan as Wellness said and write down all of your symptoms. If you are feeling better tomorrow, I would be hesitant to continue on with the Lexapro, however, I'm going to have the other mods take a look. My own experience with benzos and SSRIs include serotonin syndrome and the use of benzos and antipsychotics to control it. So these drugs definitely play off each other. Benzos can alleviate the symptoms, side effects, and withdrawal symptoms of Lexapro, so it's difficult to tell what is coming from your reinstatement of Lexapro and what is coming from not taking Ativan. 

 

So please continue writing down your symptoms before and after taking your meds. This will give you the best way of setting up a game plan for coming off.

 

 

 

 

What I would suggest, and keep in mind that you have to be the boss of this, ultimately is will be your taper your way, is to spread the total Ativan dose during the day to keep from going in interdose withdrawal.

 

Keeping the total dose the same, you could try taking 0.25 mg in the morning when you get up, 0.25 mg in the afternoon, and keep 0.5 mg at night to sleep.  Or you could also try taking 0.5 mg at bed time and 0.5 mg 12 hours later.

 

Or if you want to try to decrease the dose, you could try 0.5 mg at bedtime, and 0.25 mg 12 hours later.

 

I'm sure you get the idea, and experimenting with dosing will empower you.  Once you determine what the minimum dose that you can get away with, then we can start a slow taper.  

 

It's very possible that splitting your Ativan dose will bring your instant relief from the panic attacks, and even from some of the sleep anxiety that you are developing.  And going to bed more relaxed can only help you.

 

 

 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I'll try to explain a bit about what might be happening but remember, its only a guess based on experience (but pretty educated).

 

Lexapro alters serotonin circulating in the spaces between the neurons in the brain, tries to keep more circulating there because some dimbulb scientists thought more serotonin in the synapse is what depressed people needed to make them not depressed. Their hearts were in the right place but that is not the way it really works, turns out.

 

Your body adapts in many many ways to this meddling and the only way we feel that it can be undone safely is to withdraw the med so slowly that the body does not have a chance to react so strongly to its absence (and give you some of the symptoms you were having so that the doc, whose heart is in the right place and does not want to see you suffer, told you you needed to go back on it) and it can slowly bring back your NORMAL functioning in the body instead.

 

This re-adaptation may take about 1 1/2 times the length of timeyou were on the drug to do but this is only a guess. We members who have tapered slowly off (not me) found that reducing the amount of drug by 10% of the previous dose every 4 weeks kinda works pretty well.

 

But you stopped it cold turkey, as it were and then started using another drug of a different class to treat the uproar that was starting to brew in your system. Well, ok, that kinda works, but does not help the underlying problem. Now, at 6 months later, your body has started to adapt to the absence of lex at the same time is having to adapt to having some of it back in your system again.

 

You know the saying "you can't step in the same stream twice"? In the body things never go back to the way they were, it takes much time and regular concerted effort to bring things back to a healing path, during which time you'll feel like dog poop a lot. So that's what we do here, we try to educate you on what we fel is happening and try to get you set on a path to recovery all the while knowing that it's very rough. The one thing you cannot do is see saw doses of drugs. If you have been on that benzo your body likely needs it and it must be tapered. The lex, well I already said my piece on that. You are likely having start-up effects from it MORE than helping effects from its absence.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-%E2%98%BC-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/page-34#entry219526

 

Maybe reading the above link will help?

 

You will survive this, it will be rough, and will take time and parts of your life might go on hold but that's the unfortunate thing that happens. Doctors absolutely do not understand this whole thing and if you listen to them are likely to make you lots sicker than our collected wisdom will. You can already see I have a different opinion on taking the lex again only because I understand that in some cases reinstatement of the offending drugs comes to late after the body is already adapting to its absence.

 

Our sole reason for being is to try to prevent withdrawal syndrome and to help you through it if it happens. We getfar more people who are in wd crisis than those who find us looking for a safe way to get off antidepressants. They cannot be suddenly stopped.

 

I don't have time to spell check but you'll be able to get the gist of things. Just keep reading and treating yourself gently from here on in, ok?

[SuperSteve91]

Cheers Shep and Cymbalta, your input really helps. Ive taken 1mg of lexapro this morning and didn't get that energy shot that i got the previous two days. Ill try it a few more days, see if it works. So far i havent taken an ativan today. I slept quite ok, 5 hours, cycled to my appartment from my mums house and listened to some music. It wasn't as enjoyable as normal but it was ok. I am a musician and haven't been able to play the drums in recent weeks. I am not enjoying it because of my dull mind and the volume that it makes is just unbearable for me at this point. Ive cycled to my appartment (20 minutes) listened to music, enjoyed that, than got some suicidal thoughts for about an hour, and then I went to the record shop to buy some records. After that i got really dizzy and I needed to eat something so I did. And then I cycled home to my mums house and I am ok right now. Bit of a blurry vision and feeling a bit weak, but quite ok. Still havent taken an ativan today, and havent taken one yesterday. The symptoms are not as bad as previous days. planning on not taking one this night seeing how my sleep goes. If sleep is ****, I wil start tomorrow with 0.5 2x a day. But Ill ask my doctor about this. Interesting read cymbalta!

[Shep]

Thank you for this update, Steve, and for your detailed descriptions of symptoms and activities.

 

Please let us know how it goes for you today and how you sleep. 

[Shep]

One more question, Steve. When was your last Ativan pill taken? Was it on May 20, the night before you wrote this post? http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12176-hello-guys-my-name-is-supersteve91-nice-to-meet-you/?p=227113

 

It's important to have a clear timeline with your medications and your symptoms. This will really help separate out the Lexapro reinstatement issues from the Ativan withdrawal issues because both are very, very similar for many people.

 

[SuperSteve91]

Hi Yes, I've forgotten already because my memory is so bad at the moment. I think your right, the night of may 20th. Cheers steve

[Shep]

That's around 48 hours without an Ativan and you're feeling better - that's a good sign, considering Ativan's short half life of 12 - 18 hours. Continue to listen to your mind and body and writing down symptoms and how you coped to determine your level of dependency. Stopping and eating when you felt dizzy and suicidal is the best thing to do because many people experience sudden drops in blood sugar, which can cause similar symptoms as withdrawal. 

 

Today's post is remarkable considering your opening post just a couple of days ago. 

 

You have an amazing ability to roll with the flow with all of these symptoms and that's great to see. But do continue to monitor for Ativan dependency and provide these kinds of helpful updates.