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torvikk: depression as withdrawal symptom?

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torvikk

Do/did you have depression as wd symptom? Sometimes I'm in an extremely bad mood and very exhausted - it is in fact very similar to my original depression. It always gets better in the evening.


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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scallywag

Welcome torvikk, I replied to you in the What is withdrawal syndrome thread.

 

Welcome torvikk.

 

Many psychotropic drugs cause withdrawal; the symptoms of withdrawal are very similar to original conditions. Have you read this thread from the beginning? First post by Altostrata

 

Please start a thread in the Introductions and Updates Forum.  People are more likely to see and your question there.

 

Some questions for you to answer in your first post in your Introduction thread:

 

What drugs did you take?  How much?  When was your last one?

Did you just stop taking it or did you gradually reduce to zero? 

If you gradually reduced, how long did you take to get to zero?

 

You can write that information in your post and in a signature.  Please create a signature. When it appears below every post you make, it will help others to understand and help you.   Instructions on Making a Signature .


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Petunia

Welcome torvikk,

 

Your post from the symptoms forum has been moved here as the start of your introduction topic. It would be great if you could write a little more about your situation as scallywag suggested, including filling in your signature.

 

Depression type feelings and fatigue can often be part of withdrawal. If you tell us more about your experience, we might be able to shed some light on what's going on, and perhaps offer some suggestions.

 

Petunia.


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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torvikk

Thank you.

 

I've been taking antidepressants for 10+ years, I don't even remember exactly, ~10 years of which was venlafaxine (velaxine 150 mg). 1 year ago I reduced the dosage to 75 mg which was fairly easy.

I've been also taking anticonvulsant for 8 months for my restless leg syndrome (RLS). This medication causes anxiety, fatigue, maybe even depression. But there is no other medication that helps rls for me.

I stopped venlafaxine altogether 3-4 weeks ago, with a gradual weaning off BEFORE that, from 75mg to zero. (in the course of 3-4 weeks). I had two reasons to stop: 1. RLS is aggravated by antidepressants 2. Want to get a clearer view abour my RLS, and 3. my girlfriend wants me to stop it.

 

In the first few days I started to feel better, having good impressions I haven't had expreienced for an enormous time, like the joy a the scent of flowers. 

But the withdrawal came in 4-5 days, getting worse, and last week I got really depressed. Now it's even worse. I want to cry all the time, I'm weak, exhausted, I'm overwhelmed with a feeling of doom. I fear constantly that this is the depression coming back and that there is no end to it. And I have the brain zaps and dizziness.

Being with my girlfriend doesn't help, it even makes things harder because I try to conceal. And it seems that my RLS is not getting better, either.

I bought a strong dosage of st. john's wort and took the first pill yesterday. Do you think it's going to help? I also take 1 mg lorazepam/day for the anxiety but it doesn't ease the depression.

 

 any other ideas??


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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mammaP

Hi Torvikk, welcome to SA.  You are most certainly suffering withdrawal from tapering effexor too fast.  Often reinstating a very tiny dose can ease the withdrawal symptoms.  Just 5 beads from a capsule could make a difference. It takes 4 days to reach a steady level in the blood and hopefully would make a difference for you. If it isn't enough it can be increased in very small amounts. Too much can make things even worse. 

When you are stable you can then taper from the small dose very slowly. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/272-tapering-off-effexor-venlafaxine/

 

Can you tell us more about the anticonvulsant and the doses of that and lorazepam? 

It would be helpful if you can fill out your drug history and tapering in your signature, instructions can be found here..

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

I tapered effexor and have been off for 15 months now after a 3 year taper, RL was a problem for me too but it eased as the dose lowered. 

Side effects are dose related and may be much less with a very small dose. 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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MostlyAlive

Torvikk - Did you say you decreased from 75 to 0 in 3-4 weeks?

MammaP - Did you say 5 beads?

 

I also had an easy time going from 300 to 150, then 75, then 37.5.... this was over 4 months.

Big problem when I tried to go from 37.5 to 18. Too much.

I went back up to about 30mg (30 beads) 4 days ago and hope to feel better soon.

When you get towards the lower mg you need to go MUCH slower... its a logarithmic curve.

Please let me know how you are doing as it seems we are in the same condition.


20+ year xanax and SSRI exposure: Jan 2016 finished 2 year benzo taper,  Started Effexor taper @ 300mg, May too fast under 37mg -> AgitatioN crisis, June 6 failed re-instating 75mg Effexor with Prozac

June 24 holding 65mg Effexor + 2.5 mg olazapine - stabilized

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, D, magnesium

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torvikk

Torvikk - Did you say you decreased from 75 to 0 in 3-4 weeks?

MammaP - Did you say 5 beads?

 

I also had an easy time going from 300 to 150, then 75, then 37.5.... this was over 4 months.

Big problem when I tried to go from 37.5 to 18. Too much.

I went back up to about 30mg (30 beads) 4 days ago and hope to feel better soon.

When you get towards the lower mg you need to go MUCH slower... its a logarithmic curve.

Please let me know how you are doing as it seems we are in the same condition.

Yes. I wanted to change to Brintellix, so I "crossfaded" into it but I stopped it after about a week I stopped Venlafaxine. I only took it for a few weeks.

 

Update on my state: it seems that the worst of the physical W symptoms are just beginning. I'm very-very weak.

My restless leg syndrome is getting stronger. 

Maybe the worst part is that I have to work but my brain isn't working. I can't let them know of my problem! 

And the RLS pills (Lyrica) are making things even worse. It makes me a zombie in itself.


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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MostlyAlive

You have stopped Effexor too quickly. 75 to 0 in 3-4 weeks is not gradual.

I just re-instated and I think it is helping. Please consider that.

Here's a link to the thread that goes over reinstating.  http://survivinganti...rawal-symptoms/

I hope you are ok!


20+ year xanax and SSRI exposure: Jan 2016 finished 2 year benzo taper,  Started Effexor taper @ 300mg, May too fast under 37mg -> AgitatioN crisis, June 6 failed re-instating 75mg Effexor with Prozac

June 24 holding 65mg Effexor + 2.5 mg olazapine - stabilized

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, D, magnesium

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KarenB

Hey Torvikk,

 

Can you add Lyrica into your signature?  It's an important thing for us to know about, as part of your overall situation.  One of it's side-effects is grogginess, and it will eventually need careful tapering too. 

 

MostlyAlive is right that you have tapered extremely quickly, and that it will be resulting in the increasing w/d symptoms you are experiencing.  Since you were only on Brintellix for a week or two, it would seem more likely that effexor would be the drug to reinstate, but at a lower dose than you were last on.  If you want to try this, let us know and we can figure out what dose it should be.  Did you read the link MostlyAlive provided?  It might help you decide.

 

Karen


2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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torvikk

I took Effexor 150/75 mg for a very long time (see my history), tapered to zero in only a month - a great mistake. This was 2 months ago.  I've just reinstated because anxiety, fatigue and RLS is getting hellish. Do you think 12 mg is enough? Thank you


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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SquirrellyGirl

Have you already taken the 12 mg, torvik?  If so, how do you feel?

 

We usually recommend a smaller reinstatement because there is a risk of an adverse reaction to the drug once your system has been destabilized.  Sort of a test-the-waters dose.  It takes four days for a reinstatement to reach steady state in the system, and then perhaps more time for the nervous system to respond.  You can then assess whether it was enough and if more is needed.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Please update in your Intro about this latest development so that we keep your history together :-)

 

SG


Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 

Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18:  2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor

 

My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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torvikk

Have you already taken the 12 mg, torvik?  If so, how do you feel?

 

We usually recommend a smaller reinstatement because there is a risk of an adverse reaction to the drug once your system has been destabilized.  Sort of a test-the-waters dose.  It takes four days for a reinstatement to reach steady state in the system, and then perhaps more time for the nervous system to respond.  You can then assess whether it was enough and if more is needed.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Please update in your Intro about this latest development so that we keep your history together :-)

 

SG

I've already taken 4x 12mg doses: evening - morning - evening and this morning. No change yet. I'm very anxious and have minor panic attacks.

I decided to take 2x12/day to hasten the improvement (have to work and all...). But if you say there's no point I'll reduce it back to 12/day.

Thank you for your help.


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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torvikk

Some update on my state.. My reinstatement doesn't work very well. I've been 10 days on effexor again but this week-end was awful. Insomnia, anxiety, fatigue etc.


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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bubble

Hello torvikk,

 

I'm sorry to hear your weekend was so bad.

 

How were things before that? Did you notice any decrease in your symptoms, how ever slight or brief?

 

The period after reinstatement is very rocky especially if you were off a higher dose longer. But if there was any improvement I would stay the course. Waves lose their power over time like the actual waves crashing against the shore.

 

Keep us posted and I hope thus waves leaves you shortly.


Current: Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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torvikk

Hello torvikk,

 

I'm sorry to hear your weekend was so bad.

 

How were things before that? Did you notice any decrease in your symptoms, how ever slight or brief?

 

The period after reinstatement is very rocky especially if you were off a higher dose longer. But if there was any improvement I would stay the course. Waves lose their power over time like the actual waves crashing against the shore.

 

Keep us posted and I hope thus waves leaves you shortly.

Hi bubble, thank you for your reply.

It is definitely better as I don't have the panic attacks in the mornings like before - although mornings are still awful. I just can't see a consistent trend. Didn't know that reinstatement also came with waves & windows pattern. 


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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bubble

I see it from your signature that you indeed felt some relief following the reinstatement.

 

The key to successful reinstatement is holding even when symptoms are strong and not reacting to them by changing the dose. It is counterintuitive and hard but once you experience how your symptoms wane without changing the drug it feels very liberating and empowering.

 

Reading about windows and waves of stabilization helped me to have faith in the process during my stabilization period: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

 

Also bare in mind that in the course of 10 years your brain modelled around the ADs significantly and that it is very stressed now once the drug has been removed. These changes take place on a cellular and even DNA level so it takes some time for things to stabilize.

 

What our moderator Rhi wrote also helped me a lot to have patience and not to be scared out of my wits:

 

Rhi with more reasons for a slow taper and treating our nervous system gently:

 

You can't get off the drug (without major instability) faster than your brain can re-adapt itself to the absence of the drug. This involves changes in gene expression everywhere in the system (not a fast process), adjustment of populations of different receptors and cell types, et cetera. These are concrete processes and are not fast.

More to the point, they're also not very reliable and not very efficient. Healing a bone or an organ is one thing; we've had five billion years of evolution to get pretty good at that. Our brains have never before in evolution encountered anything like what these chemicals do to them. The kinds of changes in neurotransmitters that our brains know how to deal with are subtle--things like response to changes in day length, changes due to varying hormones in puberty and pregnancy and with aging, changes due to stressors in the environment, et cetera. We have never encountered ANYTHING like these extremely potent and precisely targeted chemical perturbations.

Our brains do their best to re-establish homeostasis when the drugs are introduced; this requires concrete changes in gene expression, cell populations, etc as above, which continue and change over time, because neuroplastic processes are happening in the brain all the time.

Reversing what the drugs do to them is just as complicated. It's no accident that (according to the Harm Reduction Guide by Will Hall) the single factor that best predicts the success of getting off psych meds is how long a person was on them to begin with. And that's just with a single med. Polydrugging takes the whole thing up to another level.

And when you've been on and off various meds, and on combinations of meds, there's really no telling what's happened, what kind of changes have taken place. Like Alto says (only she says it better)--our nervous systems are not infinitely pliable. Sooner or later something's gotta give.

Hence the need for caution when you start yanking stuff out and shoving stuff around. Ouch. It's your brain. You only get one.

 

This is just to show how stabilization takes time but neuroplasticity means our brains can and do heal.


Current: Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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torvikk

It's definitely working. After 3 weeks of reinstatement my anxiety has almost vanished. But I still don't sleep well and a strong tinnitus has appeared. I'm very unmotivated and tired as well. Lorazepam w/d may also be interfering.


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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scallywag

That's great news torvikk!  Continue to hold steady at the reinstatement dose to give yourself a good foundation for decreasing your doses in a 10% taper. The sleep issue and tinnitus may diminish as well over the next month or two.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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blazesboylan

"More to the point, they're also not very reliable and not very efficient. Healing a bone or an organ is one thing; we've had five billion years of evolution to get pretty good at that. Our brains have never before in evolution encountered anything like what these chemicals do to them. The kinds of changes in neurotransmitters that our brains know how to deal with are subtle--things like response to changes in day length, changes due to varying hormones in puberty and pregnancy and with aging, changes due to stressors in the environment, et cetera. We have never encountered ANYTHING like these extremely potent and precisely targeted chemical perturbations."

 

That's very interesting. 


Previously - zopiclone, risperidone, lyrica (pregabalin), ativan (lorezapam)
 
01/Aug/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
12/Aug/2016 -  75mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
03/Oct/2016 -  70mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
29/Oct/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
25/Nov/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
25/Dec/2016 -  60mg effexor, 3.6mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
18/Jan/2017 -  60mg effexor, 5.25mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
27/Mar/2017 -  54mg effexor, 5.25mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
23/Apr/2017 -  54mg effexor, 7.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
09/May/2017 -  75mg effexor, 7.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
08/Jun/2017 -  75mg effexor, 6.75mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
18/Jul/2017 -  75mg effexor, 6mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
 
Sometimes valium. Not daily. Supplements - Sterols and Stanols.
 
Note : I would really hope that nobody uses my tapering history as a guideline. It might not work well for somebody else tapering similar medications.

 

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Brandy

It's definitely working. After 3 weeks of reinstatement my anxiety has almost vanished. But I still don't sleep well and a strong tinnitus has appeared. I'm very unmotivated and tired as well. Lorazepam w/d may also be interfering.

 

Could you put the specifics of your lorazepam use (dates of any changes in doses, etc.) in your signature, please? Have you been taking it since the beginning of March, and are you tapering it now? Also, are you now taking it at regular times each day, and how are you dividing your daily dose (in mgs.)?


I was "TryingToGetWell" (aka TTGW) on paxilprogress. I also was one of the original members here on Surviving Antidepressants

 

I had horrific and protracted withdrawal from paxil, but now am back to enjoying life with enthusiasm to the max, some residual physical symptoms continued but largely improve. The horror, severe derealization, anhedonia, akathisia, and so much more, are long over.

 

My signature is a temporary scribble from year 2013. I'll rewrite it when I can.

 

If you want to read it, click on http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/209-brandy-anyone/?p=110343

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torvikk

I edited my signature but lost my changes, I don't feel like edeiting it again rite now :) soo I dropped lorazepam to 0,300 (from 0,625) 2 weeks ago, I take only 0,300 now once daily in the evening or in the morning, as needed. 


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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scallywag

torvikk, it's better if you keep your Lorazepam dose the same.  Please, for your own sake, don't make any more changes with that. The symptoms you're having now are the result of Effexor withdrawal. You really don't want to add Lorazepam withdrawal to what you're currently experiencing.

 

Brandy -- thank you for digging deeper with your questions.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Share this post


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torvikk

torvikk, it's better if you keep your Lorazepam dose the same.  Please, for your own sake, don't make any more changes with that. The symptoms you're having now are the result of Effexor withdrawal. You really don't want to add Lorazepam withdrawal to what you're currently experiencing.

 

Brandy -- thank you for digging deeper with your questions.

OK, thanks.


(I don't remember what I used to take before 2005. It was a few years.)

2005-venlafaxine 150 mg - for major depressive disorder

2015-venlafaxine down to 75mg

end of march - stopped venlafaxine altogether after 1 month of tapering.

beginning of march - crossfade from Vfx into brintellix 15 mg. Stopped after 1 month (Decided to stop ADs)

same time - started taking 0,625 lorazepam daily, taken at different times of the day, when most needed.

 

june 9th - reinstated 2x12,5mg/day. No change after 2 days. Some relief after 4 days. After 6 days it gets worse again. June 14th - increased to 2x25 mg/d. June 19th - Feeling all the withdrawal symptoms again.

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Altostrata

@torvikk, how are you?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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