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Nelly

Nelly: coming off fluoxetine / Prozac

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peng

How do others cope with work when feeling so awful?

 

With many difficulties, and grim thoughts, Nelly.

 

Don't despair, though, I worked with the problem for 24 years, only asking for early retirement, 3 years early, in 2001 at the age of 57. 

 

peng.

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Nelly

Thank you Karen B there is a lot of reassuring info there that helps. It helps me realise I am not alone.

Well I took the inevitable step and saw the doctor today. A 10 minute appointment max, told her how I was feeling, what I had tried to help my symptoms and my difficulties. She scrolled down my notes and gave me a choice; which antidepressant did I want? She named a few, one which would likely cause weight gain, which really doesn't come any where near as important as wanting to feel better. It was like pick a name! She said she liked citalopram! Saw that I had taken this in the past. So here I am, with 28 citralopram; 1 a day for a week then increase to 2 and go back and see her in 4 weeks!

Going to the doctor and getting some tablets this morning, seems to have eased my anxiety a little. it's almost like I can now see an end to this suffering. I didn't ask her to sign me off work. I went into work after. I nearly didn't. I will now leave my desk regularly when it gets to me. I am going to keep on trying to get through things. I feel that I now have something to help me. I will build myself up once again and be strong!

This site has been so helpful to me; talking to people that understand. And my dog has helped me! Nobody else.

We are strong people ❤️

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Nelly

Hello I'm not too good. I'm not sure St. John's wort helped. I really don't know. Physicly since finishing Prozac in November 2016 I have never felt better. But here I am now struggling with anxiety and depression and worry. I tried to keep going, but last week I saw the doctor and asked for some antidepressants. Citralopam 20mg. I still don't know if I am doing the right thing, but I was desperate. All I know is that physicly I felt very good while taking St. John's wort. Good luck ❤️

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Altostrata

How are you doing, Nelly?

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Nelly

Hello

i stopped cold turkey,  venlafaxine 16 days ago after taking it for approx 15 months. Prior to this I had a short break from Prozac which I tapered, but I couldn’t cope with the symptoms of withdrawal, so the psychiatrist prescribed Venlafaxine. Mentally I feel ok, but I have seagulls flu sympoms; hot flashes, aching body, aching head, distrusted sleep and feel like I have flu. I am sleeping whenever I can to rest myself. I am taking co codamol and ibobrufun pain relief. 

Do you know when these symptoms will lessen and go completely please? Many thanks x

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ChessieCat

What you are experiencing are withdrawal symptoms from stopping your drug.  SA recommends tapering no more than 10% of the current dose with a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

When the drug is taken away too quickly we can get withdrawal symptoms:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

Please answer the following questions in a post here in your Introduction topic:

 

Q:  What drugs and supplements are you currently taking?

 

Q:  What dose of these drugs are you taking?

 

Q:  How long have you been taking them for?

 

 

Please note:  If you have only been using the comordal for a few days my suggestion would be to stop taking it straight away.  If you have been taking it for a longer period you might need to reduce it more gradually.

 

 

Please also update your drug signature to show the following information (no symptoms or diagnoses please):

 

Drug name:  date, dose; date, dose; etc

Drug name:  date, dose; date, dose; etc

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 

The only known way to reduce withdrawal symptoms is to take the same drug that the brain has adapted to.

 

When reinstating a drug, because your nervous system can become unstable because of withdrawal symptoms, we recommend a smaller dose.  You could take 1/2 the dose that you had been taking.  From Post #1 of this topic:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

When reinstating it is best to start with a smaller dose and if needed to increase by a small amount.  It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  You will need to be patient and try and stay as calm as possible.  When we panic we can make bad decisions.  Some members have panicked and ended up increase their dose too soon/too much and ended up making things much worse.

 

You will need to keep daily symptoms notes on paper so that you can see how reinstatement is affecting your withdrawal symptoms.  If your symptoms don't improve to a tolerable level, we will ask you to post these so we can assess the reinstatement and whether you may need to increase the dose by a small amount.

 

The idea of reinstating is not to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  After stabilising, which may take a few months, you could then taper following SA's protocol.

 

Please continue to ask questions and journal your progress here in your Introduction topic.  This keeps your history in once place.

 

I will provide some additional information in the next 2 posts.

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ChessieCat

Here's some additional information which might help you to understand what is happening:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description


When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

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ChessieCat

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through discomfort and tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

 
Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)
 
On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

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Altostrata
4 hours ago, Nelly said:

Hello

i stopped cold turkey,  venlafaxine 16 days ago after taking it for approx 15 months. Prior to this I had a short break from Prozac which I tapered, but I couldn’t cope with the symptoms of withdrawal, so the psychiatrist prescribed Venlafaxine. Mentally I feel ok, but I have seagulls flu sympoms; hot flashes, aching body, aching head, distrusted sleep and feel like I have flu. I am sleeping whenever I can to rest myself. I am taking co codamol and ibobrufun pain relief. 

Do you know when these symptoms will lessen and go completely please? Many thanks x

 

Nelly, this was a terrible idea. Those withdrawal symptoms can last many months. If I were you, I'd open up an Effexor capsule and take 10 beads right away.

 

Take this at the same time each day. Please let us know how you're doing.

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Nelly
9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Nelly, this was a terrible idea. Those withdrawal symptoms can last many months. If I were you, I'd open up an Effexor capsule and take 10 beads right away.

 

Take this at the same time each day. Please let us know how you're doing.

Thank you I will take your advise and do that. Many months is too long to feel likely this.  I would like to let you know how I am doing. X

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Nelly
On 3/7/2019 at 9:42 AM, Nelly said:

Thank you I will take your advise and do that. Many months is too long to feel likely this.  I would like to let you know how I am doing. X

 

On 3/6/2019 at 11:54 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Nelly, this was a terrible idea. Those withdrawal symptoms can last many months. If I were you, I'd open up an Effexor capsule and take 10 beads right away.

 

Take this at the same time each day. Please let us know how you're doing.

Hello

I can’t thank you enough for your guidance. Iit has been I month since I started taking 10 beads. My very nasty withdrawal symptoms stopped soon after. I wonder if I am now at the point where I can reduce to 9 beads? My depression and anxiety are at a low at the moment. X

 

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Altostrata
5 hours ago, Nelly said:

Hello

I can’t thank you enough for your guidance. Iit has been I month since I started taking 10 beads. My very nasty withdrawal symptoms stopped soon after. I wonder if I am now at the point where I can reduce to 9 beads? My depression and anxiety are at a low at the moment. X

 

You're very welcome.

 

Do you have any lingering withdrawal symptoms? How's your sleep?

 

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. They can help prepare your nervous system for more changes.

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Nelly

Hello

No I don’t seem to have any lingering side effects. The occasional hot sweat but that could be my age! No head pounding or neck ache or flu like symptoms. No emotional distress.  My sleep is ok. Perhaps I wake earlier,  but on a positive note, the morning tiredness on waking appears to have reduced. I have been taking 9 beads now for 18 days. Thank you so much for your support and interest x

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Nelly
On 4/5/2019 at 12:33 AM, Altostrata said:

 

You're very welcome.

 

Do you have any lingering withdrawal symptoms? How's your sleep?

 

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. They can help prepare your nervous system for more changes.

I already take a good magnesium supplement. I will take a look at fish oil. I will take a look at the link x

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Nelly

Hello 

i reduced to 8 beads on 2nd May. I am feeling a little anxious and depressed.  No nasty physical symptoms. Sleep pattern has changed slightly in that I am waking earlier and not feeling that overwhelming tiredness when waking. Have I reduced to 8 beads to soon? Or do I need to take these antidepressants for the rest of my life to keep my anxiety and depression at a low? 

Started taking fish oil 1000mg approx 3 weeks ago. 

Disappointed to be feeling so low again.   X

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Nelly

Hello

i am tapering off venlafaxine, currently on 8 beads. I feel spaced out, depressed, low mood and don’t want to talk to anyone. Do I need to up my dose? Many thanks x

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DaveWales

Hi Nelly, unfortunately I can't help you with any technical things relating to your pill. However, I'm tapering of paroxetine and recently dropped from 10 to 7.5 over 3 months and didn't even realise I was going too fast until it was too late. So in hindsight I wish I'd held longer and gone slower. Hope that helps and knowing your not alone. Good luck 

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Altostrata

Nelly, if I were you, I would not reduce again for a good while, maybe a couple of months.

 

You still need that little crutch of 8 beads, to let your nervous system settle down.

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Nelly
On 5/24/2019 at 5:36 PM, Nelly said:

Hello

i am tapering off venlafaxine, currently on 8 beads. I feel spaced out, depressed, low mood and don’t want to talk to anyone. Do I need to up my dose? Many thanks x

Thank you 

I will most defiantly not reduce any more, but wonder if I should increase? I don’t want to, but I’m feeling very low and mentally tired. Trying to rest as much as possible and be good to myself, but I don’t know if it’s enough. Having struggled all my life, I wonder if I just have to accept that I need these tablets to keep me well. I have made a lot of positive changes in my life to avoid feeling over whelmed, but the black door is back at my door x

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Nelly
On 5/26/2019 at 12:59 AM, Altostrata said:

Nelly, if I were you, I would not reduce again for a good while, maybe a couple of months.

 

You still need that little crutch of 8 beads, to let your nervous system settle down.

 

On 5/25/2019 at 2:51 PM, DaveWales said:

Hi Nelly, unfortunately I can't help you with any technical things relating to your pill. However, I'm tapering of paroxetine and recently dropped from 10 to 7.5 over 3 months and didn't even realise I was going too fast until it was too late. So in hindsight I wish I'd held longer and gone slower. Hope that helps and knowing your not alone. Good luck 

Thank you for your reply. I hate this depression. I feel unstable and have attachment issues. All my life and I hate it. It helps to know that people understand thank you XX

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Nelly
Posted (edited)

Tapering off venlafaxine - doing ok ...

 

Hello

i am now down to 7 beads, and feeling ok. Minimal headache and pain down the back of my neck, dry mouth, but symptoms bearable, because I know why they are happening. I’m feeling pretty pleased. I tried fish oil but I think this was causing me to feel pretty rotten; lethargy, abdominal discomfort, so I have stopped taking it. My anxiety is at a low. Occasional emotional outburst but no worse than when I was on the full dose. X

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title

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Nelly
Posted (edited)

Topic title:  Withdrawal-spoke to soon-feeling depressed

 

Hello

 

I am feeling depressed, just want to get into bed and hide. I thought I was doing well. Although I generally feel like I am walking a tight rope and I am always considering my actions to protect my mental health, but thus doesn’t see to be enough. I have been saying for a long time that I don’t mind if I go now. I am not suicidal, but I am tired of life. Despite all my efforts to look after myself, it is a lonely existence that I believe will always be with me. 

 

I’m nearly halfway through tapering 150mg venlafaxine. I was disappointed last night, reading up on venlafaxine, I thought I was on the lowest dose but saw that there are lower doses available on prescription. I saw the nurse for a meds review at the surgery a couple of weeks ago, she made an apt. for me to see the doc after I told her I was tapering. I wonder what the doc will advise? I value this site more than my doctors advise.   

 

I have 5 x 2mg of lorazepam, I request them now and again as a comfort really, in case I get over tired and can’t sleep. I only get 7 at a time and they can last me 2 - 3 months. I feel I need to take one now.

 

Do I need to take antidepressants for the rest of my life? Up to now throughout my life I have rarely been without them. 

 

Any words of comfort and reassurance would be very much appreciated. Thank you x

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title and spacing

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Sassenach

Hello Nelly

It is surprising how reading even one possibly detrimental thing can trigger us when in withdrawal

Unfortunately recovery is never linear and these down moments how when we most feeling vulnerable.

You are in North Wales I assume that UK I am in Scotland so the same time zone.

I will get back to you later that this morning.

In the meantime you can and should know now that you will get better.

Beautiful morning here if it is the same in Wales that try and relax and just watch the sunshine.

Catch you later

Sassenach

 

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Sassenach

Hi Nelly

 

You are unfortunately are going through " normal withdrawal symptoms.

You may well have read this before but now would be a good time to reread.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

You are in a bad wave at the moment and should make no further cuts for the moment.

It is possible even during a slow taper for our brain to not be able to keep up, so we have to pause until it gets back in sync.

This does not mean you you will be on ADs for the rest of your life but you have get and remain as stable as possible during your taper.

The fact that you C?Ted Venlafxine, reinstated 2 weeks later and pretty much started an immediate taper is a lot to cope with.

An updose is a possility but leaves you with more to taper.

If you want to consider this let me know and I will contact the supermods for their comments.

I hope you feel better during the day and let me know how you get on.

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Nelly
4 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hello Nelly

It is surprising how reading even one possibly detrimental thing can trigger us when in withdrawal

Unfortunately recovery is never linear and these down moments how when we most feeling vulnerable.

You are in North Wales I assume that UK I am in Scotland so the same time zone.

I will get back to you later that this morning.

In the meantime you can and should know now that you will get better.

Beautiful morning here if it is the same in Wales that try and relax and just watch the sunshine.

Catch you later

Sassenach

 

Thank you so much. 

Yes it is lovely here in wales this morning,. I have had a lot of sleep and didn’t take the lorazepam so that is good. Reading the responses to my message is so encouraging, I don’t feel so alone. 

Thank you lovely people x

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Nelly

I won’t increase, I am going to stay where I am for now until I feel better. What if the doctor suggests 75mg Venlafaxine as I am now on 7 beads of 150mg? Many thanks x

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Sassenach
On 4/23/2017 at 8:35 PM, Nelly said:

I take biofood magnesium, omega 3 and a "food state" multivitamin and mineral. I have changed my eating habits to rid of candida in the body.

Hi Nelly

 

Are you still taking these and if so please include in your drug signature.

Catch later today re doctor

 

Sassenach

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Sassenach

Nelly

 

When is doc's appt?

 

Sassenach

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Nelly
1 hour ago, Sassenach said:

Nelly

 

When is doc's appt?

 

Sassenach

Hello

its Friday 

I will update my signature 

thank you x

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Nelly
3 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Nelly

 

Are you still taking these and if so please include in your drug signature.

Catch later today re doctor

 

Sassenach

Hello

I am missing some days with the fish oil and other vitamins and minerals listed in my signature. Worry that these may be making things worse sometimes x

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Sassenach

Hi Nelly

 

I presume you mean you do not take the supplements some days.

Is that correct?

In withdrawal if you do not take meds and supplements on a regular basis your body is continually trying to adjust to the changes which means it is struggling to get to homeostasis.

The kindest thing you can do is give it a level playing field.

Why did you start taking Cyto renew?

You are in withdrawal and experiencing the "normal symptoms so you can and will get better.

7 hours ago, Nelly said:

What if the doctor suggests 75mg Venlafaxine as I am now on 7 beads of 150mg? Many thanks x

GPs know nothing about antidepressant withdrawal and their standard answer is reinstatement at full dose.

Why do you think he/she will suggest 75mgs?

Under NHS rules a doctor can only suggest options and advise accordingly.

The way forward is your decision.

If you wish to get off Venlafaxine the only way is to taper slowly with holds where necessary as now.

I saw you are feeling lonely. This site is a peer site and members do not only talk about withdrawal but become friends who support each other.

I know it is not the same as as being in the same room but can be quite liberating and shortening the days helps on the bad ones.

Just don't spend too much time on here.:rolleyes:

Finally for today. How are you feeling now.

 

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Sassenach

Nelly did you say you have a dog?

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