zeromg: Effexor / venlafaxine withdrawal - panic

[scallywag]

Hey SG -- zeromg's taking Effexor. Bead counting or cold-turkey are the only options.

[zeromg]

The VA probably doesn't provide them under the plan. It's worth asking though.  Investigating how much it would cost you out-of-pocket to get the brand-name costs you only a little time and having information now doesn't hurt, at least I've never seen it listed as a withdrawal symptom or pdrug "side" effect. You may find that holding for longer periods when you get to small doses handles the larger % cut for you and switching to brand-name won't be necessary. 

Thanks!

[zeromg]

You might look into whether they would prescribe the immediate release tablets which can be made into a liquid and dosed with an oral syringe.  The problem there is that you'd need to take it twice a day. 

 

Keep in mind anytime you switch to a different brand or form, you need to cross taper because a direct switch could lead to withdrawal symptoms, even without changing the dosage!  I had to cross taper mirtazapine, taking part dry and part liquid and gradually switching to all liquid.  Never change the dosage at the same time that you do a switch!

 

Perhaps review this topic:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/

 

SG

Thank you

[SquirrellyGirl]

You actually CAN make a liquid from immediate release tablets:

 

Convert from venlafaxine XL or Effexor XR to regular tablets

Especially in the last leg of your taper, when you might be down to a few beads of Effexor XR, you may wish to switch from an extended-release version to regular Effexor so you can make a liquid from it to make very small reductions.

 

This is from the Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

SG

[zeromg]

You actually CAN make a liquid from immediate release tablets:

 

Convert from venlafaxine XL or Effexor XR to regular tablets

Especially in the last leg of your taper, when you might be down to a few beads of Effexor XR, you may wish to switch from an extended-release version to regular Effexor so you can make a liquid from it to make very small reductions.

 

This is from the Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

SG

Thanks for checking that out. I've read that changing from capsules to tablets can cause withdrawal. Does taking it twice a day keep that from happening?

[scallywag]

You take the immediate release (IR) version 2x a day because Effexor metabolizes so quickly; its half-life is 4 hours. The twice daily dosing prevents once-a-day cold-turkey, so you could say it prevents w/d.

 

When switching to the IR, don't change total daily dose. Continue at the previous dose to see if you react negatively to the change. Same thing when you change to the liquid. Some people are very sensitive to ANY change in medication.

[zeromg]

You take the immediate release (IR) version 2x a day because Effexor metabolizes so quickly; its half-life is 4 hours. The twice daily dosing prevents once-a-day cold-turkey, so you could say it prevents w/d.

 

When switching to the IR, don't change total daily dose. Continue at the previous dose to see if you react negatively to the change. Same thing when you change to the liquid. Some people are very sensitive to ANY change in medication.

Okay thanks. I still have a long time until I'll be at that point but I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'll be facing.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Zeromg, when the time comes to switch, you'll want to have enough XR left over in case you need to back up and cross-taper.  So, as an example, you'd switch from 5 mg XR daily to 2.5 mg IR twice daily, for which you may feel symptoms. Stay there for  month if that is the case before starting to taper again.  You will probably need to adjust to the IR dry version first before switching to the liquid version (making your own).  Same thing, take the same amount of liquid as you were taking the dry and see if you develop symptoms.  If symptoms are too big, you can go back to all dry and then do a cross taper of dry to liquid.  This is what I did with mirtazapine.

 

With the mirt, I did 3/4 dry and 1/4 liquid for four days, then 1/2 and 1/2 for four days, then 1/4 dry 3/4 liquid for four days and then all liquid.  After a couple of weeks on the liquid, you could do your first cut if you weren't having any trouble with the cross-over.

 

This all gets tricky if you have a big reaction between the XR and IR, because I'm not sure how we'd have you do a cross taper, given the XR is once a day dosing and the IR is twice a day.  I'll leave that to more experienced mods to determine!

 

Given all of this, I'd recommend crossing to the IR version while you are still high enough in dose that it will still be easy to weigh the dry bits.

 

SG

[zeromg]

Zeromg, when the time comes to switch, you'll want to have enough XR left over in case you need to back up and cross-taper.  So, as an example, you'd switch from 5 mg XR daily to 2.5 mg IR twice daily, for which you may feel symptoms. Stay there for  month if that is the case before starting to taper again.  You will probably need to adjust to the IR dry version first before switching to the liquid version (making your own).  Same thing, take the same amount of liquid as you were taking the dry and see if you develop symptoms.  If symptoms are too big, you can go back to all dry and then do a cross taper of dry to liquid.  This is what I did with mirtazapine.

 

With the mirt, I did 3/4 dry and 1/4 liquid for four days, then 1/2 and 1/2 for four days, then 1/4 dry 3/4 liquid for four days and then all liquid.  After a couple of weeks on the liquid, you could do your first cut if you weren't having any trouble with the cross-over.

 

This all gets tricky if you have a big reaction between the XR and IR, because I'm not sure how we'd have you do a cross taper, given the XR is once a day dosing and the IR is twice a day.  I'll leave that to more experienced mods to determine!

 

Given all of this, I'd recommend crossing to the IR version while you are still high enough in dose that it will still be easy to weigh the dry bits.

 

SG

Hi SG,

 

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure when I'm going to start my taper. I'm so torn because, on the one hand, I just want to stop taking this poison as soon as possible but, on the other hand, I'm terrified of going into withdrawal. After doing some reading, I realized that what I experience during withdrawal is called a mixed state and it's agony. I'm especially worried because I'm starting grad school on 8/22 and I can't risk going into withdrawal because I end up bed-ridden for a few days and I can't miss that much class. So it's going to take even longer for me to taper than I thought. If my breaks between semesters are long enough, I'll probably wait to do cuts at those times. I'm going to be on this medication for a really long time.

 

Zero

[scallywag]

zeromg, Starting grad school may be a good thing for your Effexor taper -- you have an even stronger interest in avoiding withdrawal.  You may also want to hold at maintain your August through September or even October. For many people it doesn't work to make life changes and meds changes at the same time. After that,  just keep making small cuts and taking it slow.  You'll get to zero -- safely.  <<hugs>>

[zeromg]

zeromg, Starting grad school may be a good thing for your Effexor taper -- you have an even stronger interest in avoiding withdrawal.  You may also want to hold at maintain your August through September or even October. For many people it doesn't work to make life changes and meds changes at the same time. After that,  just keep making small cuts and taking it slow.  You'll get to zero -- safely.  <<hugs>>

Okay, that sounds good. These past few days I've been having a lot of mood swings but I can't tell if it's the decrease or if I'm just freaking myself out psychologically. It's probably just my  mind playing tricks on me but I worry that the withdrawal is just delayed (it's been 3 weeks since my decrease) and I could go into withdrawal at any second. If it stays the way it is, I think I can manage but if it gets any worse, I'm not sure what to do.

[FunkyBaboon]

To give you some idea of others experience with dose drops. My usual pattern is 4 or 5 days where nothing seems to happen. Then about 3 days where the volume is turned up on my emotions and I feel real again, like how I remember feeling as a child before medication was ever involved. Then about two weeks of sheer hell and then gradually improve in a windows and waves type pattern from there on out.

 

However, my recent drops were too big percentage wise so it might not have been quite so bad with smaller drops.

[zeromg]

To give you some idea of others experience with dose drops. My usual pattern is 4 or 5 days where nothing seems to happen. Then about 3 days where the volume is turned up on my emotions and I feel real again, like how I remember feeling as a child before medication was ever involved. Then about two weeks of sheer hell and then gradually improve in a windows and waves type pattern from there on out.

 

However, my recent drops were too big percentage wise so it might not have been quite so bad with smaller drops.

I just don't know if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm all worked up today and I keep thinking I should go back to 75 mg and decide down the road if I want to get off of it. Have you heard people say they experience mixed states as a withdrawal symptom? If so, what did they do about it?

[bubble]

Hello zero,

 

Those mix states that you talk about are probably what we here call windows and waves.http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/page-1

 

If you have however small and short periods of decrease in symptoms that would indicate that you are on the right path when it comes to the dose you are taking and that you will stabilise over time. As others wrote it might take months due to all the changes that have traumatised your brain.

 

I can't make it out if you started 37.5 mg after you were off for some time (how long) or if you reduced from 75.

 

If you decide to updose there is a big gap between 37.5 and 75. Over 3 weeks your brain has done a lot of adjusting to the lower dose and 75 could now be too much. Something a bit higher than 37.5 but lower than 75 might lower the intensity of your symptoms. But since we are talking about destabilisation nothing will take it away over night. It takes time. But this time you have the knowledge which will make this journey successful and much less painful.

 

Do you know how to get at different doses of Effexor than the pills you have?

 

Other Effexor uses will have more helpful advice.

 

Take care.

 

Bubble

[scallywag]

To give you some idea of others experience with dose drops. My usual pattern is 4 or 5 days where nothing seems to happen. Then about 3 days where the volume is turned up on my emotions and I feel real again, like how I remember feeling as a child before medication was ever involved. Then about two weeks of sheer hell and then gradually improve in a windows and waves type pattern from there on out.

 

However, my recent drops were too big percentage wise so it might not have been quite so bad with smaller drops.

I just don't know if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm all worked up today and I keep thinking I should go back to 75 mg and decide down the road if I want to get off of it. Have you heard people say they experience mixed states as a withdrawal symptom? If so, what did they do about it?

zero, you could be referring to several things by the emphasized "this":

- withdrawal symptom pattern that follows what FunkyBaboon has experienced

- what you've previously experienced

- what you're currently experiencing.

If you're worried about FB's experience, the answer is right there, in FB's post: Make small % drops in dosage. You can also take longer holds, 6 weeks or several months.  And not everyone's experience is the same ...

 

My experience going of Effexor XR in 2005 was that I had few symptoms until I followed the calendar and the same 1.5 mg drops below about 7 mg. Cymbalta is in the same class as Effexor, an SNRI, and I'm doing a % of current dose to calculate my next dose, not a "straight-line" taper. I will be making smaller % drops and taking longer holds once I get in the range of 5-8 mg.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Zero, you are psyching yourself out and need to try to calm your over-thinking on this.  

 

Okay, that sounds good. These past few days I've been having a lot of mood swings but I can't tell if it's the decrease or if I'm just freaking myself out psychologically. It's probably just my  mind playing tricks on me but I worry that the withdrawal is just delayed (it's been 3 weeks since my decrease) and I could go into withdrawal at any second. If it stays the way it is, I think I can manage but if it gets any worse, I'm not sure what to do.

 

 

It's a combination.  The brain chemistry sets the stage for rumination that then gets you worked up, so the key here is to Acknowledge when you begin to do this, Accept that this is withdrawal talking, and let it all Float on by.   Do not fight against what you are experiencing.  Be with it and nurture yourself.  Distract yourself.  It will pass.  It is withdrawal trickery, but try to see symptoms as evidence that your system is doing some adjusting, healing.  

 

Try not to what-if yourself into a panic about the withdrawal getting worse.  Practice some mindfulness and relaxation.  It is good that so far the level has been tolerable.  Think positively that there's no reason that it will change for the worse.

 

I think until August will be plenty of time to get stable from your 50% reduction.  It's going to be ok!

 

SG

[zeromg]

Hello zero,

 

Those mix states that you talk about are probably what we here call windows and waves.http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/page-1

 

If you have however small and short periods of decrease in symptoms that would indicate that you are on the right path when it comes to the dose you are taking and that you will stabilise over time. As others wrote it might take months due to all the changes that have traumatised your brain.

 

I can't make it out if you started 37.5 mg after you were off for some time (how long) or if you reduced from 75.

 

If you decide to updose there is a big gap between 37.5 and 75. Over 3 weeks your brain has done a lot of adjusting to the lower dose and 75 could now be too much. Something a bit higher than 37.5 but lower than 75 might lower the intensity of your symptoms. But since we are talking about destabilisation nothing will take it away over night. It takes time. But this time you have the knowledge which will make this journey successful and much less painful.

 

Do you know how to get at different doses of Effexor than the pills you have?

 

Other Effexor uses will have more helpful advice.

 

Take care.

 

Bubble

Hi Bubble,

The mixed states are actually a combination of the intense pain deep in the chest that you get with depression, along with panic.

I decreased from 75 mg to 37.5 mg three weeks ago.

Yes, I know how to get different doses. I guess if I reinstate at any dose, I'll go 10% below 75 mg. I would have just gone back to 75 mg, so thanks.

[zeromg]

 

To give you some idea of others experience with dose drops. My usual pattern is 4 or 5 days where nothing seems to happen. Then about 3 days where the volume is turned up on my emotions and I feel real again, like how I remember feeling as a child before medication was ever involved. Then about two weeks of sheer hell and then gradually improve in a windows and waves type pattern from there on out.

 

However, my recent drops were too big percentage wise so it might not have been quite so bad with smaller drops.

I just don't know if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm all worked up today and I keep thinking I should go back to 75 mg and decide down the road if I want to get off of it. Have you heard people say they experience mixed states as a withdrawal symptom? If so, what did they do about it?

zero, you could be referring to several things by the emphasized "this":

- withdrawal symptom pattern that follows what FunkyBaboon has experienced

- what you've previously experienced

- what you're currently experiencing.

If you're worried about FB's experience, the answer is right there, in FB's post: Make small % drops in dosage. You can also take longer holds, 6 weeks or several months.  And not everyone's experience is the same ...

 

My experience going of Effexor XR in 2005 was that I had few symptoms until I followed the calendar and the same 1.5 mg drops below about 7 mg. Cymbalta is in the same class as Effexor, an SNRI, and I'm doing a % of current dose to calculate my next dose, not a "straight-line" taper. I will be making smaller % drops and taking longer holds once I get in the range of 5-8 mg.

 

"This" is what I've experienced in the past and what I'm worried about experiencing now.

I plan to do the 10% per month (calculated on each new dose) taper after I'm stabilized on 37.5 (unless I have to go back up and start over somewhere between 37.5 and 75. Thanks, Zero

[zeromg]

Zero, you are psyching yourself out and need to try to calm your over-thinking on this.  

 

Okay, that sounds good. These past few days I've been having a lot of mood swings but I can't tell if it's the decrease or if I'm just freaking myself out psychologically. It's probably just my  mind playing tricks on me but I worry that the withdrawal is just delayed (it's been 3 weeks since my decrease) and I could go into withdrawal at any second. If it stays the way it is, I think I can manage but if it gets any worse, I'm not sure what to do.

 

 

It's a combination.  The brain chemistry sets the stage for rumination that then gets you worked up, so the key here is to Acknowledge when you begin to do this, Accept that this is withdrawal talking, and let it all Float on by.   Do not fight against what you are experiencing.  Be with it and nurture yourself.  Distract yourself.  It will pass.  It is withdrawal trickery, but try to see symptoms as evidence that your system is doing some adjusting, healing.  

 

Try not to what-if yourself into a panic about the withdrawal getting worse.  Practice some mindfulness and relaxation.  It is good that so far the level has been tolerable.  Think positively that there's no reason that it will change for the worse.

 

I think until August will be plenty of time to get stable from your 50% reduction.  It's going to be ok!

 

SG

Hi SG,

 

You're probably right that I'm psyching myself out and I hope so. That means I actually have some control over the way I feel. Thanks for the pep talk, I needed that.

 

Zero

[zeromg]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm trying to get off of all of my medications. After realizing the truth of what has been going on with my medications and my "bipolar disorder" that I was falsely diagnosed with. Anyway, I kept trying to get off of venlafaxine first but just wasn't working. I diddn't follow the 10% taper and that's probably why it didn't work but I'm in grad school and can't risk even a day in withdrawal. Anyway, I put that on the backburner until after I graduate and I started working on tapering my non-antidepressant psych meds. I tapered risperidone with no problems in a week then started on the lamictal. The lamictal is giving me problems so I did some reading and found out that these other drugs are hard to get off of too. So, now I'm worried about the risperidone. It was really easy but I know with the antidepressants it can take a few weeks to hit. Should I count my blessings and just go with it or should I get back on the full dose and do the 10% taper?

 

Thank you

[ChessieCat]

Hi zeromg,

 

I've moved your new post to your Intro topic because it is about your own situation.  This will keep your history in one place.

 

Please update your signature using the following preferred format:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

1 hour ago, zeromg said:

So, now I'm worried about the risperidone. It was really easy but I know with the antidepressants it can take a few weeks to hit. Should I count my blessings and just go with it or should I get back on the full dose and do the 10% taper?

 

I suggest you keep notes:

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

1 hour ago, zeromg said:

should I get back on the full dose and do the 10% taper?

 

Please do not go back on the full dose of risperidone.  If you start experiencing unbearable withdrawal symptoms it would be better to start with a small reinstatement dose and give it some time.  If the withdrawal symptoms are still unbearable after 1-2 weeks then you could increase by another small amount.  The brain will have made some adaptations since you stopped risperidone.  It is better to start with a small dose. than to take the last dose or too high a dose.  Please read Post #1 of this topic:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Once we have your tapering dates and doses we could suggest a dose for you to reinstate if you need to.

 

Tips for tapering off Risperdal (risperidone)

 

It would be best not to taper for a while so that you will be able to notice if you are getting withdrawal symptoms from risperidone.

[zeromg]

Depression has returned after discontinuing effexor and prozac

 

Hello, 

 

My story is long and detailed but I will try to keep it as succinct as possible. I was taking effexor since about 1999. Around 2015, I met a psychiatrist who told me the effexor could be doing more harm than good (I have had debilitating anxiety since I started taking it). This started me on my journey to get off all of the psychiatric drugs I was taking (at the time, effexor, lamictal, risperidone). He suggested I try a "prozac bridge" to get me off the effexor but it didn't work and I ended up on both drugs. I made several attempts to get off of the effexor but had nightmarish withdrawal symptoms and was never successful, although I was able to decrease the dose from 225 mg to 37.5.

 

Over the past several years, I was able to taper off the lamictal with no problems. My anxiety improved significantly but it was still a major problem. I then I decreased the risperidone from 2 mg to .25 mg with almost no problems.  Last year, or maybe the year before, I started taking lorazepam. 

 

I used a natural medicine called kambo, and was able to stop the 37.5 mg effexor and 20 mg prozac with only very minor withdrawal symptoms. But after about 4 weeks off the drugs, I started having depression (which is strange because the pills never actually helped my depression. I learned to manage it in other ways). I am almost 12 weeks off the antidepressants which I am very happy about but I don't know what to do about this depression. Is this a withdrawal symptom? Will it pass eventually? I'm thinking about going back on the drugs but I'm afraid of reinstating both at the same time because of the risk of serotonin syndrome. If I reinstate, I don't know which drug it should be and I don't know if it will even help. I'm so confused about what I should do at this point and the psychiatrist I have is lazy, incompetent, and arrogant and I don't trust her to guide me through this. I don't have the choice of changing doctors because I get seen at the VA. Besides, I've had other psychiatrists there and they are just as incompetent when it comes to antidepressants and the dangers of these drugs. 

 

I understand that you can't give medical advice. I'm just wondering if this depression can managed in other ways and if it will pass with time or if I need to reinstate. Thank you for your time. 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

So that the staff can assess your situation please keep daily symptoms notes as per the following example and post a 24 hour period at one time.

 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, zeromg said:

But after about 4 weeks off the drugs, I started having depression (which is strange because the pills never actually helped my depression.

 

Hello, @zeromg This is exactly when we would expect withdrawal from fluoxetine to show up. Most likely it is a withdrawal symptom. Please describe what this depression feels like.

 

Are you still taking kambo or any other drug?

[zeromg]

The depression is a crushing heaviness in my chest and crying a lot. I also have a lot of anxiety but I've had anxiety for years. 

 

I'm finished with the kambo. I take some supplements (fish oil, D3, iron), have one energy shot in the morning, and usually 2 cups of coffee. I added magnesium 2 days ago and St. John's Wort yesterday. I stopped taking a B complex supplement today (I am getting enough from the energy shots and in the other supplements). 

 

My symptoms are not as bad so far today as they have been.

Edited November 6, 2022 by zeromg
Added last sentence about symptom severity

[zeromg]

This is the first 24 hour period that I started keeping track:

 

Date: Nov 5, 2022
10PM Took 0.75 mg risperidone, 680 mg omega-3 fish oil, and 500 mg St. John's Wort
10:30PM Asleep on couch (anxiety 1, depression 0)

Date:Nov 6, 2022
1:15AM Awake about 15 min (anxiety 2, depression 1)
3:30AM Awake about half hour, took 50 mg diphenhydramine, went to bed (anxiety 2, depression 1)
7:30AM Awake, in and out of sleep for an hour (anxiety 3, depression 1)
8:30AM Awake, drank energy shot, took morning supplements, took .25 mg lorazepam 
(anxiety 3, depression 1)
9:45AM 2 cups of coffee with cream
11:30AM (anxiety 4, depression 2), taking 0.25 mg lorazepam
12:45PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 5, depression 3)
2:30PM took 500 mg St. John's Wort (anxiety 4, depression 3)
4:30 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 4, depression 3)
5:20 0.5 mg lorazepam (anxiety 5, depression 5)
7:20 anxiety 1, depression 0
9:30 asleep on couch
 

[FindRest]

Wow, an energy shot and two cups of coffee would send my anxiety levels over the top. No wonder you’re having increased anxiety during the subsequent hours. St. John’s wort is also known to cause anxiety.

[zeromg]

Good point about the coffee and energy shots. I'm having hot chocolate instead of coffee today. I use an energy shot each morning or I'm in and out of sleep for a couple hours and it seems my anxiety is worse when I'm in that half-asleep mode. It's easier to just wake up and start my day. I didnt know SJW could cause anxiety. I'm going to keep taking it though. Could be placebo effect but it seems likes it started working right away when I started it 3 days ago. The crushing depression has become a low-grade sadness. 

[Altostrata]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:03 AM, FindRest said:

Wow, an energy shot and two cups of coffee would send my anxiety levels over the top. No wonder you’re having increased anxiety during the subsequent hours. St. John’s wort is also known to cause anxiety.

 

I was gonna say. 

 

@zeromg is sleep one of your major problems? What's in the energy shot? Suggest you stop the energy shot and coffee, if the coffee isn't every day. If it is every day, suggest you gradually replace it with decaf or milk to avoid the caffeine withdrawal headache.

 

How long have you been taking lorazepam every day? Do you take it whenever you wish? How often do you usually take it? Att @Shep

 

When did you start it? Please add the lorazepam information to your signature.

[Shep]

On 11/7/2022 at 9:35 AM, zeromg said:

10PM Took 0.75 mg risperidone, 680 mg omega-3 fish oil, and 500 mg St. John's Wort

 

Please note there's a MODERATE drug interaction between risperidone and St. John's Wort

 

Drug Interaction Report - risperidone and St. John's Wort

 

Please also note the cautions regarding St. John's Wort:

 

St. John's Wort (Hypericum Perforatum)

 

On 11/7/2022 at 9:35 AM, zeromg said:

3:30AM Awake about half hour, took 50 mg diphenhydramine, went to bed (anxiety 2, depression 1)

 

Please note there is a MODERATE drug interaction between diphenhydramine and your other drugs:

 

Drug Interactions - diphenhydramine, St. John's Wort and risperidone

 

On 11/7/2022 at 9:35 AM, zeromg said:

8:30AM Awake, drank energy shot, took morning supplements, took .25 mg lorazepam 
(anxiety 3, depression 1)
9:45AM 2 cups of coffee with cream
11:30AM (anxiety 4, depression 2), taking 0.25 mg lorazepam
12:45PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 5, depression 3)
2:30PM took 500 mg St. John's Wort (anxiety 4, depression 3)
4:30 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 4, depression 3)
5:20 0.5 mg lorazepam (anxiety 5, depression 5)

 

Between 8:30 in the morning and 5:20 in the evening, you've had 5 doses of lorazepam, totaling 1.5 mg. Lorazepam is a very potent drug used for anxiety. In that timeframe, you've also had an energy shot, 2 cups of coffee, and St. John's Wort, a stimulating supplement. 

 

The is an excellent example of creating your own problems, zeromg. 

 

On 11/5/2022 at 10:57 AM, zeromg said:

I'm thinking about going back on the drugs

 

Before doing anything, I would clean up your diet and start learning some non-drug coping skills. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

We can only provide a harm-reduction approach to tapering. How successful people are at getting off these drugs does in part depend on their ability to do a slow taper, but another part includes the ability to find ways of coping with withdrawal symptoms that don't involve adding in new drugs or potentially dangerous supplements. 

[zeromg]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

I was gonna say. 

 

@zeromg is sleep one of your major problems? What's in the energy shot? Suggest you stop the energy shot and coffee, if the coffee isn't every day. If it is every day, suggest you gradually replace it with decaf or milk to avoid the caffeine withdrawal headache.

 

How long have you been taking lorazepam every day? Do you take it whenever you wish? How often do you usually take it? Att @Shep

 

When did you start it? Please add the lorazepam information to your signature.

I sleep enough but I wake up a few times throughout the night. It's not my major problem. There are a lot of things in the energy shot. I'll include the list a little later. I need to be somewhere soon. I stopped the coffee. 

 

I've been taking lorazepam every day for over a year I think. 1 to 1.5 mg throughout the day. I'll add it to my signature. 

[zeromg]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Please note there's a MODERATE drug interaction between risperidone and St. John's Wort

 

Drug Interaction Report - risperidone and St. John's Wort

 

Please also note the cautions regarding St. John's Wort:

 

St. John's Wort (Hypericum Perforatum)

 

 

Please note there is a MODERATE drug interaction between diphenhydramine and your other drugs:

 

Drug Interactions - diphenhydramine, St. John's Wort and risperidone

 

 

Between 8:30 in the morning and 5:20 in the evening, you've had 5 doses of lorazepam, totaling 1.5 mg. Lorazepam is a very potent drug used for anxiety. In that timeframe, you've also had an energy shot, 2 cups of coffee, and St. John's Wort, a stimulating supplement. 

 

The is an excellent example of creating your own problems, zeromg. 

 

 

Before doing anything, I would clean up your diet and start learning some non-drug coping skills. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

We can only provide a harm-reduction approach to tapering. How successful people are at getting off these drugs does in part depend on their ability to do a slow taper, but another part includes the ability to find ways of coping with withdrawal symptoms that don't involve adding in new drugs or potentially dangerous supplements. 

 

 

 

I do practice a lot of non-drug coping skills. I walk 30 minutes almost every day. I use EFT, vagal massage, meditation, Journaling, and going outside. I get reiki brainspotting treatments as often as i can afford it. I've gotten completely off of Lamictal, effexor, and prozac, and gone from 2 mg to 0.75 mg risperidone. I take the diphenhydramine as a substitute for more lorazepam. I know it's a dangerous drug and I'm doing the best I can to keep it at 1 mg.  I stopped the coffee two days ago. I was drinking 3 energy shots per day at one point and now I'm down to one. I quit cigarettes, alcohol, and cannabis. I'm doing the best I can.

 

This is all very confusing and overwhelming and it's scaring me. I'm thinking about stopping the SJW and just going back on the 37.5 mg effexor I was taking (but not the 20 mg prozac, I'm afraid of serotonin syndrome). 

[zeromg]

Just to be clear, I'm not having the panic symptoms like I was years ago when I tried to get off the antidepressants.  The main problem I'm having is depression. But I had to use the same comment thread I used back in 2016 so that's what the title says. 

[zeromg]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

I was gonna say. 

 

@zeromg is sleep one of your major problems? What's in the energy shot? Suggest you stop the energy shot and coffee, if the coffee isn't every day. If it is every day, suggest you gradually replace it with decaf or milk to avoid the caffeine withdrawal headache.

 

How long have you been taking lorazepam every day? Do you take it whenever you wish? How often do you usually take it? Att @Shep

 

When did you start it? Please add the lorazepam information to your signature.

 I think things are getting confused because I had to add on to my thread from several years ago instead of starting a new one. I do have anxiety but my major problem right now is the depression that started four weeks after stopping the antidepressants. I want to know how much longer I should expect this withdrawal depression to last. If it's going to be more than a couple months, maybe I should go back onto one of the antidepressants then taper when I'm feeling stable again. 

[Shep]

 

20 hours ago, zeromg said:

I do practice a lot of non-drug coping skills. I walk 30 minutes almost every day. I use EFT, vagal massage, meditation, Journaling, and going outside. I get reiki brainspotting treatments as often as i can afford it. I've gotten completely off of Lamictal, effexor, and prozac, and gone from 2 mg to 0.75 mg risperidone. I take the diphenhydramine as a substitute for more lorazepam. I know it's a dangerous drug and I'm doing the best I can to keep it at 1 mg.  I stopped the coffee two days ago. I was drinking 3 energy shots per day at one point and now I'm down to one. I quit cigarettes, alcohol, and cannabis. I'm doing the best I can.

 

These are all excellent things to do and you've made some major accomplishments. 

 

My concern is you're still relying on drugs and potentially dangerous supplements such as St. John's Wort to handle your withdrawal symptoms. 

 

 

20 hours ago, zeromg said:

The main problem I'm having is depression. But I had to use the same comment thread I used back in 2016 so that's what the title says. 

 

You're taking lorazepam during the day. Please note that benzos are powerful central nervous system depressants. It's possible that at least part of your symptoms are side effects of this current drug, in addition to withdrawal of your previous drugs. This will lessen as you taper off the benzo. You are also dealing with potential drug interactions. 

 

The confusion isn't caused by your title. What we rely on more is your signature. Please see this thread, as it tells you what we need and the format. A simple list is best.

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

[Altostrata]

What we're going to ask you to do is to take your psychiatric drugs on a consistent schedule every day, and to stop the random experiments with other substances such as St. John's wort, energy shots, etc. and even overuse of caffeine.

 

As @Shep said, you may be making your own problems by ad hoc drug ingestion. We can't work with drug randomness.

 

Please continue to post your daily notes.