lucky12 Brain zaps

[lucky12]

I now have this close to a month and it's driving me crazy.

I'm on Paxil 20mg Anafranil 150mg Lamictal 200mg Seroquel 75mg at night.

Have not started to taper off of from any medication which is the most disturbing part of this situation.

I started to have these incredibly uncomfortable brainzaps. It starts after a few hours from waking up and gets worse the whole day. When I move my eyes and change the direction I am looking, it gets triggered to the peak of this "volt" "electrical shock" and I can not even function at one point. I am afraid to move my eyes and to look somewhere else. I am afraid of any kind of movements. Nothing but sleep seems to help. I am missing my life, got a lot of work to do this week but I simply can't participate in life with this incredibly disturbing feeling. I've waited and waited for almost a month for it to pass on it's own. And my research always ends up with the same thing: "ssri withdrawal" or "tapering off drugs". See the point here is I am NOT withdrawing from anything. Not even tapering off. I am desperate for some help. Went to the neurology department of a hospital but I was feeling well during the EEG MRI and other tests. Everything turned out to be fine. I also sweat A LOT to the point that I get completely wet as a result of a minimum effort movement like climbing the stairs to the 2nd floor. And this is totally new for me too.

Any kind of answer, help, suggestion would be very much appreciated.

Best regards.

Edited July 19, 2016 by scallywag
tags added

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

For lucky12, here's your drug interactions list.

 

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=702-355,1430-848,1800-1156,1979-1274

 

You've got a clueless doc but we will help you here. A mod will move your topic and get you started sorting this out.

 

You'll be ok.

[lucky12]

For lucky12, here's your drug interactions list.http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=702-355,1430-848,1800-1156,1979-1274

You've got a clueless doc but we will help you here. A mod will move your topic and get you started sorting this out.

You'll be ok.

 

Really? Omg thank you.

[lucky12]

For lucky12, here's your drug interactions list.http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=702-355,1430-848,1800-1156,1979-1274

You've got a clueless doc but we will help you here. A mod will move your topic and get you started sorting this out.

You'll be ok.

So the reason of these brain zaps is the interaction? I couldn't find the term "brain zap" or anything similar at the link you gave me drugs.com

 

I feel really pissed at my doctor right now as I even write this difficultly and sweating. I've been on them for 5 months , can it suddenly start?

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I am finally back home and on a real computer instead of my phone. I'll attempt to explain a bit and help you out, ok?

 

First thing, just keep posting here, I can't do it myself but a mod will move the appropriate posts into a topic all for you.

 

Second, no need to quote every post. Just go to the bottom of the page and start typing in the blank posting window. It gets tiring reading the same thing all down the page.

 

Third, don't worry about the interactions report, that was just a start and a heads up for the mods who post in your thread. Leave it go till one of them comments on it and don't worry about it. You've been on the drugs for a bit so the first one may not be alarming as it sounds. Just don't suddenly stop taking any of them and do not change the doses, even if your doc asks you to until you've heard what we have to say, ok? I am going to post this and come back and add to it so hang on. I have a bit of research to do.

 

I just sent you a message too.

 

Brain zaps, as far as we know, are only from drugs that affect neurotransmitters and those systems, and they usually happen when someone goes off their meds without tapering gradually so the brain can put things back the way they belong. What is weird about them is that they are a 'felt' symptom, they don't show up in a test of any kind. You'll chase your tail and go nuts trying to prove their existence.

 

You can get them when the level of drugs in your system changes. Did you recently change from a generic to a brand name by any chance? That can do it. Also, did you skip a dose or take one late? It can be a delayed reaction too.

 

Your turn to reply.

[lucky12]

I am seriosly hoping this is because of the drugs and their interactions. cymbaltawithdrawal5600 gave me a bit of relief when he said my doctor is clueless. A few people I have talked too got shocked by the combination and dosages. I was thinking of giving up the Seroquel because I am not sure but it may have gotten worse after we upped the dosage. I was also on 10mg Zyprexa and than 5mg and quit it 2 months ago.

 

I am waiting.

Thanks a lot.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Ok, good. You saw my message and you know how to stay connected and refresh your screen to keep a conversation going. Call me CW and I am an old lady.

 

You changed the zyprexa? Did I put that one in the list? You cannot change the doses of the drugs until you stabilize, that is what caused the zaps. It is a warning sign from your brain to stop messing with the doses of the drugs it has gotten used to.

 

It is the zyprexa that is doing it, I am sure. Now just wait for a mod to set you up, we have a lot of things for you to read, ok? You need to understand what is going on to develop a plan of attack. Reply back and then just wait till a mod drops some links here and moves your thread. I cannot do it myself right now, I am sorry. But you are going to be ok.

 

Updated drug report:

 

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=702-355,1430-848,1800-1156,1979-1274,1744-1113

 

olanzapine (zyprexa) is a moderate reaction with all the other ones. What in the world is your doc trying to treat you for?

 

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE THE DOSES OF YOUR DRUGS OR STOP TAKING ANY OF THEM.

 

That is a shout, take them on time and at the last does you were taking. You must start keeping a log of when you take them and what your symptoms are after you take them or you won't know what is doing what. ok?

 

Suddenly stopping anything causes problems, the brain zaps are the symptom. Got it? we have to wait for a mod or the administrator Alto to see what to do about the zyprexa seeing as how you stopped it. I am sure it is the delayed reaction from suddenly stopping it gave you the zaps. The other drugs don't keep that from happening. Don't mess with the seroquel either, it is helping you even if you don't believe it.

 

I see you logged off. Hopefully you'll be back. Oh wait, you are back. There are 2 mods logged on but they have not seen your topic yet. Be patient. I am logging off now. Hopefully Alto will see this and weigh in too.

[lucky12]

See the story is this. Around 5 months ago he prescribed me 10mg and I used it for a week but could not tolerate it. Than after a week without Zyprexa he again decided to precribe me 5mg. That's when he precriped me 50mg of Seroquel and told me I can quit whenever I don't have sleeping problems. I have used 5mg Zyprexa for 3 months and 2 months ago he made me quit by having 2.5mg for 3-4 days told me it's not a big deal and it's easy to quit this drug.

 

I am confused I have had no problem at the first month. This is seriosly terrible right now. Shocks got incredibly stronger.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I have to leave now but you've been moved to the right place, I sent you a message. Just keep posting anything we need to know, all of it.

 

You really will be ok. Just don't panic.

[lucky12]

Ok. It's not very easy not to panic. But what can I do, waiting.

 

Thanks.

[Shep]

Hi, lucky. Welcome to the forum.

 

CW did a great job of getting you some much needed information, including the drug interaction check. I'm so very glad you're here because this is a lot of medication.

 

From your various posts, this is what I was able to put together:

 

Current meds: 

 

• Paxil 20mg
• Anafranil 150mg
• Lamictal 200mg
• Seroquel 75mg at night.

 

Recent changes:

 

• 10mg Zyprexa and than 5mg and quit 2 months ago

 

Here are a few links to get you started:

 

 

Brain Zaps

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

You say that the brain zaps have been going on for about a month, and they start after a few hours from waking up and continue to get worse.

 

Please tell us the time of day and the dose you take each medication. Also, please write down how many months / years you've been on each medication.

 

I'm going to get the other mods and Alto to weigh in on this because this is a rather complicated combination of meds.

 

Please place your medications in your signature. Here's how:

 

Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature

 

This is your thread to list your symptoms, leave updates, and to ask plenty of questions. You'll find plenty of information and support here.

[lucky12]

Thanks a lot. This site is amazing. I've added all the medication I've been taking and why I got them prescribed to me to my signature.

 

I have read and searched everything I found on the web and on this forum about brain-zaps before I posted not to repeat any threads take people's time. However, I couldn't find anyone similar to my condition, both drug based and the case based.

 

Here we go:

 

I wake up at 8am to get my meds and go back to sleep again.

 

Morning(8am):

75mg Anafranil

100mg Lamictal

 

Evening(9pm):

75mg Anafranil

100mg Lamictal

20mg Paxil

5mg Zyprexa (quit by tapering off 2 months ago)

 

At night before I sleep around 3am I have been taking 50mg Seroquel, but because of this condition I'm stressed out and can't sleep and my head feels so weird so I take 75 somedays.

 

I'm very dizzy and tired all the time, have pains in my muscles. But the brain-zaps are the worst by far and it's getting worse everyday to the point of getting me suspicious about something major going on in my brain and to the point that these brain-zaps are no more just a subtle feeling but they actually "hurt" me. I also feel high pressure in my head like it's going to explode sometimes.

 

I'm sweating and of course my brain is zapping as I write this right now.

At least you guys gave me some relief. I appreciate that.

 

Thanks a lot! Seriosly.

[Shep]

Thanks for adding this information, Lucky.

 

I noticed you also added stimulants into the mix in your signature - Ritalin / Concerta as needed. 

 

I'm afraid there are more questions. According to your signature, you started the Paxil 9 years ago and the Anafranil 5 - 6 months ago.

 

How long have you been on the Lamictal, Seroquel, and Ritalin / Concerta? How long were you on Zyprexa before coming off? 

 

Please carefully keep track of when and how often you use Ritalin and Concerta. Also, it's best to stay on consistent doses, so if you can stick to the same dose of Seroquel every night, that would be best. 

 

Your wake / sleep schedule is a bit unusual. Do you work second shift? 

 

As you can see from my signature, my last drug cocktail was very large and complicated, too. But I'm off everything now and healing, so it is possible to come off these large drug cocktails and be just fine. But it's best to get a game plan set up for a proper taper and do it very slowly and carefully.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Lucky.

 

Your drug cocktail is excessive. Anafranil has major dangerous interactions with several other of your drugs.

 

While it's impossible to tell exactly which interaction is causing the brain zaps, that is not a good sign. The sweating also suggests the over-activation of serotonin toxicity as a result of the Paxil-Anafranil interaction and possibly the other drugs as well.

 

If I were you, I would hold the dosing of all the other drugs very steady -- do NOT increase the antipsychotics at all -- and start reducing Anafranil right away. (Antipsychotics do NOT cancel out the adverse effects of other psychiatric drugs.)

 

Look at your package: Does it indicate XR, SR, or extended-release Anafranil? What do your pills look like? Who is the manufacturer?

 

If your Anafranil is NOT XR, SR, or extended-release, you can taper by making a liquid of the tablets, or have a pharmacy make a compounded liquid. See

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

As you're having rather serious adverse effects from your absurd drug cocktail, I might taper a little more quickly than 10% per month. Please let us know how you're doing.

[PoetJester]

Hey Lucky,

 

I had the brain zaps too.  I thought I was the only person who ever had the problem until I got on this site and saw that lots and lots of people suffered from them.  I was on Zoloft and zyprexa for many years.  I never experienced the zaps while on the pills (I had plenty of other problems, though) but when I quit the drugs in Feb 2014,  I had the brain zaps for a couple of months afterwards before they eventually went away. 

 

PoetJester

[lucky12]

So it's not about quitting Zyprexa 2 months ago as someone here has mentioned?

 

 

First of all I have to say, I am really scared of tapering drugs is not the solution so it will make it all worse. So I would LOVE to be sure.

 

I just can't understand why that started to happen all of a sudden and not finding a logical cause to this gets me more desperate and it's actually freaking me out because I have a lot to do these next weeks and these brain-zaps gets in the way of my funcionality.

 

I am an event manager and I have an organisation company. The events and organisations are mostly about nightlife but it also includes festivals. I have a lot of meetings with the sponsors and venue owners these next days and I need to plan a private event. My sleeping times change a lot.

 

I have been on Zyprexa for between 3 months and 2 weeks before I tapered off. ( I will re-check that tomorrow but I am pretty sure that's it, it can only change a week mostly )

 

Anafranil is a red pill that can be broken in half. One half there is a "C" and one half there is a "G". I'm pretty sure that it's SR. I take 2x75 each day. ( I will re-check that too but, again I'm pretty sure )

 

Ritalin and Concerta use are really random and not on a regular basis. 54mg of Concerta is usually enough for a busy day. Or 4-5 ritalins(not in the same time).

 

My doctor also told me to taper off from Paxil and start Wellbutrin 150mg.

[lucky12]

To add:

 

I don't have it in the first hour of waking up. And then I start to feel it's slowly coming getting worse till the end of the day.

 

I get tired very quickly and experience shortness of breathe.

 

I also fart a lot. I mean a lot, at anytime of day it lasts for 10 secons sometimes and it doesn't smell at all. I never used to have that before meds also.

[lucky12]

I just went to the store to buy something and came back. That's it and I'm all wet in sweat. Plus I realised my hands are crazy shakey. Store owner asked me if something is wrong. I look like I have Parkinsons.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I saw your posts lucky, and we are waiting for the site Administrator to continue to weigh on this because you have a complex problem going on. Do you understand what she was trying to say in her post to you (above):

 

 

Your drug cocktail is excessive. Anafranil has major dangerous interactions with several other of your drugs.

 

While it's impossible to tell exactly which interaction is causing the brain zaps, that is not a good sign. The sweating also suggests the over-activation of serotonin toxicity as a result of the Paxil-Anafranil interaction and possibly the other drugs as well.

 

If I were you, I would hold the dosing of all the other drugs very steady -- do NOT increase the antipsychotics at all -- and start reducing Anafranil right away. (Antipsychotics do NOT cancel out the adverse effects of other psychiatric drugs.)

 

So you have been prescribed drugs in combination that can produce something called 'serotonin toxicity' and the sweating and shakiness can be a symptom of this. You are having SUGGESTIVE symptoms, we cannot diagnose this for sure but the drugs.com list gives up a pretty good hint to the cause.

 

I am the one that took a shot in the dark about the zyprexa causing the zaps, actually we don't know exactly what is causing them.

 

Alto will come back and read your postings to see what your anafranil pill looks like and give you instructions on how to reduce it. She is generally here in the early afternoon Pacific Daylight Time. Look on the World Clock website and put in her city (San Francisco) to find out what time they are in Turkey, ok? That will give you an idea of when you might expect to see a post from her.

 

You doctor has no clue how to safely get you out of this mess he seems to have put you in. We are going to try to help you but we are not doctors and cannot give you any medical advice, only suggestions. But truth is, we seem to be right and the doctors wrong.

 

Please do not change the doses of your drugs yet and do not try any supplements or herbs, they can make this lots worse, ok? And I would not take the ritalin period.

 

Changing anything takes at least 4 days to register in the body and maybe longer than that to actually FEEL and SEE it. This is a long process and must be done slowly or you can get much sicker. I know your life has been severely interrupted by this, there is no quick cure. Any person saying there is has no clue, including the doctors. Have you been able to read any of the links from above?

[mammaP]

Hi Lucky, what a nightmare this must be for you, and your doctor wanted to add wellbutrin to the cocktail! 

 

As your anafranil can be broken it can't be slow release which means you can make a liquid to start reducing. We normally recommend tapering 10% per month but Alto suggests a faster taper because of the severity of the interactions. You could reduce by 10% to see how it goes, as CW said it will take 4 days to get a steady level. Let us know how the first cut goes and we can asses how fast you may be able to taper. 

 

Your doctor should be struck off! 

[lucky12]

This is really painful. Brain zaps are getting so brutal. I can't move. I can't move my eyes. My heart beats crazy fast even when I stand up to get water and I get crazy sweaty. How fast can I taper and what's the fastest way to get rid of this?  This is a joke.

[scallywag]

lucky, I hope you're still online and will see this.  Altostrata, the lead moderator and site founder, had a suggestion for you.  Did you see that? quick link to that post

 

Did you adjust your Anafranil dose or are you taking 150 mg? If you did reduce the dose, how much are you taking?

[lucky12]

I don't know how much should I reduce to make this go away. I don't want make things worse because I hardly handle this.

 

I take 75 in the morning and 75mg in the evening. Should I reduce the half of the 75mg pill and reduce 37,5mg?

 

I really need to get rid of these brain zaps at least. I'm skipping so much work.

[scallywag]

I hope one of the moderators reads your questions and responses in the very near future.  What you've posted, 75 mg to 37.5 mg is 50%, is a large reduction of any drug. The recommendation here is to make small drops, around 10%. 

 

In your situation, it may be different. Please wait until you hear from a moderator before making any reductions.

 

Information about small reductions (a repeat link from above): Why taper by 10% of my dose? 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Ok, go a little slower here so we are all on the same page. Alto suggested he cut a bit faster than 10%, lucky is taking 150 mg per day in two 75 mg doses. So if he cuts one dose by 50%, he is only making a 25% reduction, probably good for now.

[scallywag]

lucky: I hope that you're peacefully asleep right now.
 
The last line of Altostrata's post:

As you're having rather serious adverse effects from your absurd drug cocktail, I might taper a little more quickly than 10% per month. Please let us know how you're doing.

Just a reminder because sometimes it's hard to think through the zaps and the fog: There are 3 ways of going faster: greater than 10% cuts, and making the cuts more often than 1/month, or both.

From the same post by Alto:

Look at your package:
- Does it indicate XR, SR, or extended-release Anafranil?
- What do your pills look like?
- Who is the manufacturer?

Did you figure out the answers to these questions?

If you can't tell by looking at the pills or the prescription label, you could call the pharmacy where you got them.

 
I hope you hit on the right solution to get rid of the brain zaps on the first try. If not then, very soon after.

cw5600: your correction of my arithmetic is appreciated; I *did* need to slow down. 

[Shep]

I don't know how much should I reduce to make this go away. I don't want make things worse because I hardly handle this.

 

I take 75 in the morning and 75mg in the evening. Should I reduce the half of the 75mg pill and reduce 37,5mg?

 

I really need to get rid of these brain zaps at least. I'm skipping so much work.

 

 

Cutting the 75mg pill in half is not the usual 10% that we recommend here, but as CW posted, it's a 25% cut which is good enough for now due to the circumstances.  It sounds like the serotonin toxicity symptoms are getting worse, which can be very serious. 

 

Did you ever find out for sure if your pills are SR (sustained release)? This is important because as Alto mentioned in this post here, it will affect the tapering method. 

 

 

 

 

Anafranil is a red pill that can be broken in half. One half there is a "C" and one half there is a "G". I'm pretty sure that it's SR. I take 2x75 each day. ( I will re-check that too but, again I'm pretty sure )

 

 

 

Like Scallywag wrote, you can check with a pharmacist. 

 

It can take at least 4 days for your system to fully register a reduction in dose, so please let us know how you are doing. 

[lucky12]

Thanks a lot everyone!

 

It's Anafranil SR. I just slept a little and it was gone for a 30 minutes after I woke. But it's full on back again.

 

So I will just reduce Anafranil %25 now and wait for 4 days. Any other suggestions?

 

How can it be dangerous?

 

Any possible ways to get rid of these symptoms as soon as possible. It's really hard to tolerate.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Nope, we don't think so, generally anything you try to take (like a drug or a supplement) can backfire while the body is struggling like this. It sometimes helps to think of it as a machine and not 'you'. Your machine is struggling, but it KNOWS what it needs to do to start fixing itself. The sweating and the pooting is its way of getting that excess out of your system so to speak. I know you want to hurry but please don't.

 

Eat simple food, lots of broths and liquids, do you have jello in Turkey? Avoid spicy and real heavy, fatty foods for a bit. You have to keep yourself hydrated from all the sweating. Try to stay calm and unfortunately you might miss more work. Do you have any trusted underlings that can help out for you? Oh, and no heavy exercise, can you get someone to go to the store for you?

 

You'll know in 4 days (or sooner) if you're on the right track. We might be able to tell you when to reduce that drug some more after that.

 

If I remember right, the sweating is good for you, it's if you stop sweating and your body temp rises that is not so good. I cannot find out where the 'dangerous' remark reference is. All you have to know is that if you get really sick go right to the hospital but make sure they don't mess with the drugs you are on. Print out the drug interaction sheet and keep it with you so someone can tell what is going on.

 

Are you good for now?

 

And since it is SR formulation, you cannot mix it with water to cut smaller amounts as per Alto's message above, I think is what she was saying. We will cross that bridge later.

[lucky12]

I'm sorry to say I'm not good for now. I'm not stable. It's getting worse whenever I don't sleep. Hope this %25 reduce will stop the zaps at least. Unfortunately my job can not be done by my partner or any others.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

No, I meant are you good on the information and explanations for now. I can't make you feel better I know but if I can calm your mind a bit that helps.

 

They'll have to work around you. Your life is far too valuable to risk because your doc was clueless about the medicines. You have to get well so you can set him straight.

[lucky12]

Is it normal for these brain zaps to start after months of use? The sweating and shaking were present before brain zaps though.

 

Should I check the departments other than neurology? Should I get my liver tested? A guy from another forum told me my liver might not process the drugs so I may be having a withdrawal syndrome.

 

Or is it most probably seratonin toxicity? Cutting just a %25 from Anafranil will make me realise in 4 days that I am getting better?

[Altostrata]

You've gotten a drug-drug reaction because of some change in your drugs or in your liver.

 

What is the manufacturer of your Anafranil?

 

From http://www.drugs.com/uk/anafranil-75mg-sr-tablets-spc-11864.html

 

6) Further information
What Anafranil contains
Each film coated tablet contains 75mg clomipramine hydrochloride in a sustained release formulation. The tablets are formulated to release the active ingredient slowly. The tablet contains the following inactive ingredients colloidal anhydrous silica, calcium hydrogen phosphate, calcium stearate, hypromellose, red iron oxide (E172), Ethylacrylate methylmethacrylate copolymer, hypromellose, polyethoxylated castor oils, Talc and Titanium dioxide (E171).

What Anafranil looks like and contents of the pack

Anafranil 75 mg sustained release Tablets are pink capsule shaped film coated tablets marked S breakline T on both sides of the tablet.
The tablets come in calendar blister packs containing 28 tablets.

PL 10383/1019 Anafranil 75mg SR Tablets

Who makes and repackages your medicine?

This product is manufactured by Sigma-Tau Industrie Farmaceutiche Riunite S.p.A., Via Pontina km 30,400 – 00040 Pomezia, Rome, Italy. and is procured from within the EU and repackaged by the Product Licence holder: Primecrown Ltd, 4/5 Northolt Trading Estate, Belvue Road, Northolt, Middlesex, UB5 5QS.

 

 

^This tablet is a matrix formulation. Is this what you have? What is the manufacturer of your Anafranil?

[lucky12]

Manufacturer is: TEOFARMA

 

What is a drug-drug reaction? What's it have to do with liver? Why did the brain zaps happen all of a sudden after months? Do I need to get my liver checked? I'm so confused about what should I do.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hang on till Alto does some more research, just hold on your drug regimen for now. You'll need a bit of calmness to get this sorted. Testing your liver might tell you something about your liver but not necessarily why the zaps happened. And it may not clear a path for any treatment options except reducing this heavy drug cocktail.

 

For now just answer any questions she asks of you. You are still waiting for time to pass, the body will show the way to go.

[lucky12]

It's the worst today! I know can feel it in my head extremely painful plus I started to feel the zaps in both of my hands. I went to hospital they have no idea what to do. They wanted to send me to neurology but all of my results from there were fine. Other than that they don't know what to do.