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Probiotics and gut health


Altostrata

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Gut health seems to be very much involved in mental health, and many people here have reported an improvement in withdrawal symptoms after taking greater care with their diets. One approach is SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diets, which eliminates foods thought to trigger allergic reactions or digestion difficulties and allows beneficial bacteria to repopulate in the gut.

 

These diets also minimize sugar and starch intake, which is thought to cause a great deal of metabolic stress -- in some people, leading to diabetes.

 

I have had some success with taking probiotics. I've gotten a high recommendation for Enzymedica Digest Gold, a vegan probiotic capsule. A probiotic drink called GoodBelly seemed to help (Goodbelly actually contains a lot of sugar because the bacteria it contains need the sugar to keep alive).

 

I drink kefir often and eat yogurt every day, though I have not graduated to making my own. (Maybe some day soon.)

 

My gut is now in better shape since it ever was, even before antidepressants. For many years, I had an IBS-like condition. Eating anything in the garlic or onion family seemed to set it off. I liked Indian food but it often upset my stomach. Now I'm eating it all the time, and I can eat salsa with bits of raw onion in it (before I had to pick them out).

 

So something has gone right with my gut as my autonomic nervous system has recovered.

 

What's been your experience with probiotics?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Gut health seems to be very much involved in mental health, and many people here have reported an improvement in withdrawal symptoms after taking greater care with their diets. One approach is SCD/GAP

What's been your experience with probiotics?

 

The potent ones have worked for me -- aid digestion, relieve constipation, assist appetite -- but at a cost. I lost sensation in body parts when I tried digestive enzymes like the Digest line, capsuled probiotics like acidophilus also have had negative effects...

 

I'm very sensitive... Interestingly my responses are sometimes inconsistent over time. For instance, I tried a PPI and became very depressed, then lethargic, then unable to maintain consciousness. Tried the same med two months later (in a bit of a panic about symptoms) and experienced considerable pain/instability in my joints... So who knows how I'd react today. I'm trying to get fully onboard with the SCD.GAPS diet and stick to the dang thing. That's my bit for now...

 

It is interesting how the gut and brain intertwine. I'm glad I have so many folks around here to help me. I've been more pooped out and dumbed down than usual, though my symptoms generally getting better in spite of or as a result of or who knows... Happy to be feeling better than 100 days aago.

 

Alex

 

ps -

I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink

I'm so tired, my mind is on the blink

I wonder should I get up and fix myself a drink

No,no,no.

//to sleep, i'll try

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Sadly I cannot drink dairy products anymore. Especially kefi is very good. But another no dairy product is very healthy as well: Sauerkraut juice.

 

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5510770_benefits-sauerkraut-juice.html (as an example)

End of 2008: Remeron 15mg for around 2 months. Unorthodox taper, no problems.
End of August 2009: Lexapro 10mg for only 4 days. Panic attack after 3 pills. Severe gastro problems in the morning for 3 days after last pill. 2 weeks later strong w/d symptoms set in.

Acute WD lasted around 3.5 years. I am feeling much better today, 5.5 years out, but still have some symptoms left.

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The GAPS Paleo diets folks would be very happy to hear you're doing well with sauerkraut juice!

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 5 months later...

I'm 15days into a Paleo/GAPS diet and take an expensive probiotic even tho I can't afford it. I have just learned on YouTube how to make sauerkraut so will be making it instead of buying probiotics.

 

These diets just seem to make so much sense. I wish i had learned of them before i went on AD's. I'm sure a healed gut would translate to a healthy brain. I have signs of severe gut problems from leaky gut and i could just never work out what the hell has been the matter with me.

 

- very underweight

- fatigue from liver congestion

- dark under my eyes

- rashes

- acne on chest and back

- unexplained hair loss that doesn't run in my family as male pattern hair loss

- anxiety

 

yeah it's been awesome

 

My hunch is damage from grains. I lived off them. Was vegetarian for many years and had grains at every meal. Lots of soy too. To make things worse i was a junk food vegetarian. Eating lots of meals like greasy fries full of transfats etc. If you could reverse the GAPS/Paleo diet, that's pretty much what my diet was all the way til 35yrs old. *sigh*

 

oh well, at least i know now. Better late than never. I'm trying out Glutamine during the week. I read from Pubmed.org that this is good for healing the intestinal wall, the brain, and healing the body in general after stress. Bodybuilders use it for this reason. I'm hoping that it's not stimulating as I know during WD periods this can be bad. I have experience with 5-htp and it was nasty

 

would love to know if anyone has tried Glutamine for healing the brain during WD

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I make my own yoghurt and kefir every day, and also tibicos, which are also called water kefir grains. I do wonder if I'm getting too much yeast from the kefir. I eat the grains occasionally and it seems to help my digestion. I've done the sauerkraut juice before, and want to do it again.

 

The thing about store-bought yoghurt is that it is usually only fermented about 6 hours, so it contains a lot of lactose, and the strains may not be as potent as it sits on the shelf a while. Also, they use a lot of bifidus strains, and those can take over and prevent you from having a healthy mixed colony of probiotics. I use a yoghurt starter that has only thermophilus, bulgaricus and casei. I have no idea what is in my kefir grains, as I got them from a friend.

 

CulturesForHealth.com lists all the specific strains in their various starters, and GiProHealth.com sells an "SCD yogurt starter" that is bifidus free.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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  • 1 month later...

oh well, at least i know now. Better late than never. I'm trying out Glutamine during the week. I read from Pubmed.org that this is good for healing the intestinal wall, the brain, and healing the body in general after stress. Bodybuilders use it for this reason. I'm hoping that it's not stimulating as I know during WD periods this can be bad. I have experience with 5-htp and it was nasty

 

would love to know if anyone has tried Glutamine for healing the brain during WD

 

Hey BB,

 

Are you still experimenting with glutamine?

 

I have a powder for intestinal healing that is largely glutamine. I've not experimented with it too much because of other supplement obligations. I am typically monogamous in my dealings with a given supplement. I am curious how you have done?

 

Also do you think you have loss of intestinal wall integrity -- "leaky gut"? I think I must have this, like I must, but I've not had it checked. It seems like a silly assumption to just make though and many people on the GAPS board and support sites all proclaim they suffer from this condition. As I understand it, it's pretty easy to measure permeability through a sugar intake/urine output measure. Have you done this? I'd like to to see if I'm leaky and then to track my interventions to see if I am reducing my leakiness.

 

Like I said, curious about your experience as you're about my age and underweight with gut issues.

 

thanks,

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I haven't tried the glutamine. I've had so much on my plate lately that I've just settled with doing GAPS as best I can and supplementing with probiotic, fish oil, vitamin D and milk thistle for my liver.

 

I've been low on funds as well, else I'd buy some digestive bitters as well. They can be a little pricey but if you just use a eye dropper and place some bitters on your tongue, the bitter taste causes a reaction down the vagus nerve from tongue to liver, where the liver creates new bile and dumps the old stuff. It's a good way to clean the liver. Those olive oil liver flushes I found to be hype.

 

My situation has made it pretty much impossible to work so Glutamine will have to remain on my 'wish-list' for now.

 

I haven't been tested for leaky gut but I know I have it. I was born via c-section while my mother was very sick from cancer. Even if i could have got some of her flora, I doubt it would have been very good while in the condition she was in. My older 2 brothers, and my sister have thrived in life. Physically, financially, emotionally, socially etc and i struggled. It's not proof but for me it's close enough.

 

I'm the poster child for GAPS. Skin conditions, anxiety, food sensitivities, difficulty gaining weight etc. I'd love to get this test you talk about, but I don't have the funds. Just to have some thing on paper.

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Ox bile is recommended in GAPS for gallbladder issues and helping with bile flow. Betaine HCl also could help with bile. I use both and neither were too expensive, I think ~$10 a bottle at the local store.

 

I understand your work situation. I've not been fully employed in a while. I only make a small amount of money and am mostly dependent on my family. I am lucky that my dad has kept me on his insurance so I have insurance and my mom helps with necessary food and stuff like that.

 

You seemed to be doing well at first with GAPS, then I saw a post saying you'd had some cravings... How are things going now?

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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  • 2 months later...

I dished out $142 to test my intestinal permeability aka my degree of "leaky gut".... According to Genova Diagnostic my gut is impermeable.

 

While I have numerous gut problems, it seems porousness isn't one of them, according to this test. I don't know how rock solid the test is but the method seems fine to me.

 

If anyone is interested, here is a sample report:

https://www.directlabs.com/imagepage.aspx?id=83&type=testsample

 

That this test said my gut wasn't leaky doesn't affect my strategy. I still have fungal levels graded toxic, still have gluten reactions, blood sugar, etc.... Mostly the same interventions though I can narrow my focus.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I'm fond of kimchi as a probiotic. I not only like the taste, it's easy to make in small quantities and a good way to use up odds and ends of fresh vegetables.

 

I've found that eliminating most starches and sugar from my diet has helped my gut a great deal. I still eat bread made from brown rice flour, brown and wild rice, and potatoes with no problems, which really makes me wonder if the fact that non-organic soy, corn, and wheat are nearly always genetically modified is what causes the digestive upsets rather than the pure grains themselves. Just reading about what genetically modified feed does to animals is enough to get one's gut in an uproar.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Gut health seems to be very much involved in mental health, and many people here have reported an improvement in withdrawal symptoms after taking greater care with their diets. One approach is SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diets, which eliminates foods thought to trigger allergic reactions or digestion difficulties and allows beneficial bacteria to repopulate in the gut.

 

These diets also minimize sugar and starch intake, which is thought to cause a great deal of metabolic stress -- in some people, leading to diabetes.

 

I have had some success with taking probiotics. I've gotten a high recommendation for Enzymedica Digest Gold, a vegan probiotic capsule. A probiotic drink called GoodBelly seemed to help (Goodbelly actually contains a lot of sugar because the bacteria it contains need the sugar to keep alive).

 

I drink kefir often and eat yogurt every day, though I have not graduated to making my own. (Maybe some day soon.)

 

My gut is now in better shape since it ever was, even before antidepressants. For many years, I had an IBS-like condition. Eating anything in the garlic or onion family seemed to set it off. I liked Indian food but it often upset my stomach. Now I'm eating it all the time, and I can eat salsa with bits of raw onion in it (before I had to pick them out).

 

So something has gone right with my gut as my autonomic nervous system has recovered.

 

What's been your experience with probiotics?

 

I found a raw milk farm near my home and began making my own kefir which has way more probiotics than any supplement. I use raw goat milk and the farmer gave me some kefir grains. I also make my own sauerkraut and kombucha, which also have probiotics. I highly recommend reading the GAPS book.

 

I have had some improvements using these probiotics but am still in withdrawal hell.

Various SSRIs/SNRIs 7- 1/2 years

Went Cold Turkey from Celexa 2011, Stayed Off

Psych Drug Free and Loving Life (over 6 years and counting)

 

How I Stay Well: Diet, exercise, meditation, supplements, etc

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  • 9 months later...

I have been doing some research about the connection between the digestive system and the brain through the vagus nerve, which seems explain some aspects of depression.

There are two articles in particular I found interesting in this regard:

http://www.livescience.com/15822-embargoed-probiotic-bacteria-treat-depression.html

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/04/12/beware--bacteria-growing-in-your-gut-can-influence-your-behavior.aspx

 

Does anyone have a personal experience with intake of probiotics and mood?

What probiotics have you tried successfully and how did you provide them to your body?

 

Thanks

 

Jose

1999-2004 citalopram 10 to 20mg with 2-3 withdrawal attempts.
2004 fluvoxamine for 4-5 months aprox. Changed to venlafaxine because of the headaches and dizziness.
2005-March 2014 venlafaxine usually starting on 150mg and coming down to 75 or 37.5. Several withdrawal attempts.
In March 2014 I stopped taking 37.5mg of venlafaxine without tapering.

Went through 5 months of confusion, anxiety, insomnia and desperation. From then I am very slowly recovering, on windows and waves.

Symptoms: muscle stiffness and aches, shortness of breath, abdominal pain, memory loss, inability to concentrate or think straight, difficulty to speak, difficulty to read (improving).

Taking omega3, magnesium, calcium, vitamin E and probiotics.

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I've written tons of stuff on mental well-being and the gut...

 

Nutrition and gut health

Mental health and diet

 

http://beyondmeds.com/gut-health/

 

though I've not connected it explicitly with the vagus nerve...it's all connected...

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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  • 8 months later...
  • Administrator

Chris Kresser on protecting your gut from antibiotics by taking probiotics http://chriskresser.com/what-to-do-if-you-need-to-take-antibiotics

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks for bumping this Alto, I was searching for it last night and couldn't find it! 

Knew it was in here somewhere. 

I have a grocery delvery due soon and have ordered cabbage to make saukraut.

All recipes I found say to use pickling salt but I couldn't get hold of it here. 

Would any other salt do the job?  I was tempted to douse it in epsom salts but

might get overdosed on magnesium, lol. I have some acidophilous (sp?) caps and

will have a go at making lactose free yogurt. I read up on it last night and will give it a try

in the crockpot. 

 

I found more recipes, it seems that pickling salt is just a preference so will be using sea salt. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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  • Administrator

Giving your beneficial probiotic friends some fuel in the form of insoluble fiber, such as a little ground psyllium husk, is good for your gut health, too, particularly if you tend towards constipation.

 

I found a half-teaspoon of psyllium per day is plenty to keep regular. I can't imagine taking 3 teaspoons per day as the package advised!

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 3 months later...
  • Administrator
Altostrata

I know this sounds odd, but I'm finding I sleep a lot better when I take a 1/2 portion of a liquid probiotic, Goodbelly, in the morning.

 

I had some gut distress a couple of months ago and my digestion and sleep went south. My regular probiotic capsules didn't seem to do anything in particular (the higher dosage ones definitely were activating and kept me awake). When I tried a bit of Goodbelly again, the results were dramatic. I still wake once or twice in the middle of the night, but I'm able to go back to sleep.

 

Goodbelly contains one particular probiotic strain, Lactobacillus plantarum 299v. It's a liquid you can find in the refrigerated section of many US markets.

 

I have no idea how this works for sleep, but it does for me right now.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 7 months later...

I went to a health food shop today and looked at acidophilus and aloe vera, and then I got distracted by spirulina and got totally confused!  Plus I'm finding it hard to think and focus lately and have just got exhausted with researching, hence my post here.  I'd really like to take something to heal my gut and restore balance and maintain it. 

 

So, what key steps do you find are really helpful for restoring and maintaining a healthy gut? 

History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown  - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds).  Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on.   2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg    2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg)  2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg,

Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline.  Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016.  shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised.  made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify.  Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017)   April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify.

 

Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes

 

 

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Here is one overview. If you google Chris Kessler, he has some excellent articles on it as well. http://draxe.com/4-steps-to-heal-leaky-gut-and-autoimmune-disease/

 

My doctor said the L-glutamine would be too stimulating for me, and when I took licorice root I could tell it was too much as well. For me, the number one thing has been avoiding gluten, dairy, and sugar. I went to a course on gut and mood (I have to do some kind of classes for my job) and the speaker said the discovery of this whole world of microrganisms within the body is the biggest scientific discovery of the past one hundred years.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Thanks Meimeiquest - I've been reading that the condition of the gut is implicated in some mental health issues. 

History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown  - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds).  Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on.   2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg    2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg)  2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg,

Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline.  Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016.  shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised.  made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify.  Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017)   April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify.

 

Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes

 

 

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It's a huge topic. Kellybroganmd.com has a lot about it. An important point is that excessive cortisol from stress can loosen the "paste" between cells of the intestine, also contributing to leaky gut symptom. There's a saying, "fire in the gut, fire in the brain."

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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That's interesting about cortisol.  I'm pretty sure my body has got overloaded with it ever since I've been on this particular antipsychotic because I've put so much weight on my upper arms especially.

 

Edit:  just been reading some of Kelly Brogan's site - thank you for mentioning her.  Do you happen to know what her Beyond Medication: Mental Health, Holistic Healing and Nutrition online course is like by any chance?  I was wondering whether it was worth investing in taking it.   

History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown  - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds).  Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on.   2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg    2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg)  2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg,

Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline.  Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016.  shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised.  made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify.  Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017)   April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify.

 

Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes

 

 

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I bought it but I have only listened to the first lecture, which was excellent.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Moderator Emeritus

whitelily, here are a couple of topics we already have related to gut health:

 

probiotics and gut health

 

digestive problems post-withdrawal

 

 

* note

 

When you have a question or comment about a specific symptom, please search to see if we already have a related topic, we usually do.  Then you can benefit from previously collected information and add to the discussion.  This keeps the site organized with all available knowledge in one thread, easily accessible through searches.

 

The search function on this site doesn't work very well.   The best way to search this site for specific information  is to use Google.  Type in survivingantidepressants.org then the symptom or information you wish to search for.

 

If after searching, you can't find what you're looking for, please start a new topic.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I used to get a lot of IBS symptoms, and I found aloe vera juice really helped, I would say about 90% better.  I only used brands that use inner gel only, no latex or bark which irritate the gut.  Then just over a year ago I was getting more and more symptoms after eating including brain fog and extreme fatigue, so I decided to try a gluten free diet.  This helped pretty much immediately.  Since going gluten free I have not needed to use the aloe vera juice.  I have not had any official testing or diagnosis, but for me the results speak for themselves.  Of course, this is just my own experience and may not apply to everyone.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

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Petu, thanks for your reply and the links you posted.  I'm sorry I didn't search first, but was just been finding it hard to focus on reading lots of information online and had got overwhelmed, which led to me posting. 

 

Today I ordered some probiotics from www.naturesbest.co.uk as they had very positive reviews. 

 

I also read that Fenugreek tea is very good for digestion (and also helpful for diabetes), and was going to order some tea bags but found that they were very expensive here in the UK.  So I've ordered some unbleached tea bags and am going to buy organic seeds and use a pestle & mortar to crush a teaspoonful to make home-made tea to try and have regularly. 

History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown  - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds).  Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on.   2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg    2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg)  2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg,

Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline.  Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016.  shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised.  made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify.  Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017)   April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify.

 

Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes

 

 

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Thanks Songbird for your reply and mentioning about aloe vera and gluten.   I have wondered very much about gluten sensitivity as I know it's linked with mental health issues - perhaps it's worth getting tested. 

History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown  - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds).  Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on.   2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg    2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg)  2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg,

Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline.  Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016.  shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised.  made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify.  Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017)   April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify.

 

Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes

 

 

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I eat gluten free as well. It helps alot with ibs. I usually eat dairy free as well which helps even more but sometimes you just have to have cheese. It affects my throat and gut but oh well it isn't daily.

2002-put on amitryptiline for fibromyalgia. 10mg.2004-stopped abruptly. Didn't think it helped.2006 approx.-put on Paxil for mild anxiety 20 mg.2007 upped to 40 mg. not sure why.2011- tapered from 40 to 10. went nuts and went back to 20mg2014- tapered from 20mg to 0 from April to The end of June.current meds- Metformin(type 2 diabetic) and low dose aspirin.Take multi vitamin and vit b12, vit. D and magnesium. 5 months off Paxil. Still suffering.recently added 1.2mg of Paxil to alleviate withdrawals.(Nov 30)Dropped to .9mg because having symptoms from reinstatement.(dec 23)<p>taper to .76mg-.8mg (Feb 3) approx. weight .010 to about .008-.009 on scale.
.6mg (march 19th.) .5mg(April 19th)
.4mg(April 27th)
.2 (June 27th)

0mg.  done taper at beginning of August.

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I use a modified GAPS protocol and it has worked well for me as long as I stay on the program. (Ate a bunch of crackers yesterday, not feeling so great today...)

 

I do well with eating probiotic foods like kefir and fermented sauerkraut and yogurt, too.

 

Chris Kresser's site has a lot of stuff about gut health and from what I can see Kelly Brogan looks pretty good. But I do best with the GAPS approach, limiting starches in general but eating more fruit than the usual low carb diet.

 

I think you might have to read and experiment a bit to find what works best for you. 

 

Be cautious with probiotics, we've had several members have bad reactions to them. I think a strong one can just stir up a lot of activity in the gut, which then aggravates other symptoms. I would just start with less than the whole capsule and work my way up.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Frustrated - I agree about cheese! lol.  I tried to give it up, but I found I was giving up so many foods (by cutting out sugar and carbs) that I've just had some again today. 

 

Rhi - I've heard of the GAPS protocol through a sister who has chronic fatigue.  Thank you for the advice about the probiotic.  Frustratingly, I made a mistake with my order and got the high strength capsule - not realising that there was a lower strength available - so it might well be essential to start with less. 

History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown  - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds).  Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on.   2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg    2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg)  2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg,

Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline.  Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016.  shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised.  made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify.  Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017)   April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify.

 

Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes

 

 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbiome.. It's not so much the gut but rather the bacteria living inside the gut.

 

Depression has been linked to our microbiome.. that is the trillions of bacteria inside our body, particularly the gut. I believe having healthy bacteria is very important to our mental health.

 

"One model of depression is periodic separation of infant mice from their mothers. These mice show reductions in Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species, functional gut abnormalities, increased corticosterone (stress hormone) levels, weight loss, and causes them to not swim as much in a forced swim test as control mice, indicating behavioural despair. Treating the mice with Lactobacillus lowered corticosterone levels and gut abnormalities.[33] Another experiment has replicated the effect that germ free mice have an exaggerated stress response and also found reduced expression of brain-derivedneurotrophic factor in the cortex and hippocampus.[34] Another experiment showed that treating the maternally separated mice with a probiotic culture of Bifodobacterium infantis minimizes weight loss, causes mice to swim longer and causes an increase in the amount of the serotonin precursor tryptophan produced.[35]"

Paxil from 2005 to July 2013. 30mg. 

Very short taper. 

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  • 2 months later...

I have some info for people who need to use probiotics for ibs. There is a guidline called NICE that informs GPs about the treatment. Probiotics are mentioned as a treatment for ibs. Therefore you can ask your gp for prescription.

I have a repeat prescription now for VSL#3, which is really expensive and I would be not able to afford it. This is very good probiotic.

http://www.vsl3.com/index.asp

- 30.09.2020- reduced doxepin to 125mg, 16.10.2020- 100mg, 6.11.2020- 75mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long terms of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Science daily states that people taking probiotics fucused less on negative ruminations.  Very interesting article! 

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150414083718.htm

 

People focus less on bad feelings and experiences from the past (i.e. rumination) after four weeks of probiotics administration. Psychologists Laura Steenbergen and Lorenza Colzato from the Leiden Institute of Brain and Cognition published their findings in Brain, Behavior and Immunity.

Related Articles
  •  
 

Linking probiotics and mood

Probiotics are live microorganisms which, when administered in adequate amounts, are fundamental in improving digestion and immune function. Steenbergen and her fellow researchers were the first to investigate whether the administration of multispecies (containing different strains) probiotics for at least 4 weeks has a beneficial effect on rumination (i.e., recurrent thoughts about possible causes and consequences of one’s distress). “Rumination is one of the most predictive vulnerability markers of depression” says Steenbergen. “Persistent ruminative thoughts often precede and predict episodes of depression.”

Steenbergen asked 40 healthy subjects participating in the research to take a sachet containing powder which was mixed with lukewarm water or milk each day of the intervention. Half of the people received a placebo powder, while the other half received the probiotics mixture. People were invited to the lab twice: one time at the begin of the intervention and the second time after 4 weeks when the intervention was completed. In both occasions they were required to fill in a questionnaire indexing sensitivity (cognitive reactivity) to depression.

Less rumination through probiotics

Compared to subjects who received the placebo intervention, participants who received the  multispecies probiotics intervention showed significantly reduced ruminative thoughts. Colzato: “Even if preliminary, these results provide the first evidence that the intake of probiotics may help reduce negative thoughts associated with sad mood. As such, our findings shed an interesting new light on the potential of probiotics to serve as adjuvant or preventive therapy for depression.”

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am 8 months of Lexapro and my GI issues seem to have appeared overnight. I purchased a probiotic and digestive enzymes. I am starting with the enzymes to see how I handle those and after taking my first pill with dinner last night I experienced what fealt like terrible heartburn, but wasn't. It was more of a sharp gassy pain. Has anyone experienced this? Possibly my stomach just needs time to get used to it? I did feel like my food was digested better but was left with terrible pain in my chest.

 

I will try again today at lunch and see what happens. Thanks!

Lexapro from October 2012-October 2014

10mg from Oct 2012-Feb 201320mg from Feb 2013-June 201310mg from July 2013-April 2014
Began taper via liquid Lexapro from April 2014-September 2014(Roughly 6 month taper)---0.00 on Oct 1 2014--WD began in December 2014

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reinstated to 10mg - 10mg Tablet October 15, 2015 - Stable by Mid-January, 2016

2016 - 9mg 3/26/16....8mg 5/11/16....7mg 7/05/16....6mg 8/26/16....5mg 10/31/16

2017 - 4mg 3/06/17....3mg 6/24/17....2mg 9/07/17...1.25mg 10/21/17....1mg 11/04/2017

2018 - 0.75mg 1/21/18....0.5mg 2/18/18....0.25mg 3/13/18....0.125mg 3/27/18....0.000 4/9/18

 

Supplements - 15B probiotic on and off. Usually helps w/ mood but sometimes is too activating.

 

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Has anyone found probiotics to be activating? I may have started out with a too high of dose after reading this thread. About an hour after taking the capsule I felt very anxious and dizzy. Just curious if anyone has experienced this. Thanks.

Lexapro from October 2012-October 2014

10mg from Oct 2012-Feb 201320mg from Feb 2013-June 201310mg from July 2013-April 2014
Began taper via liquid Lexapro from April 2014-September 2014(Roughly 6 month taper)---0.00 on Oct 1 2014--WD began in December 2014

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reinstated to 10mg - 10mg Tablet October 15, 2015 - Stable by Mid-January, 2016

2016 - 9mg 3/26/16....8mg 5/11/16....7mg 7/05/16....6mg 8/26/16....5mg 10/31/16

2017 - 4mg 3/06/17....3mg 6/24/17....2mg 9/07/17...1.25mg 10/21/17....1mg 11/04/2017

2018 - 0.75mg 1/21/18....0.5mg 2/18/18....0.25mg 3/13/18....0.125mg 3/27/18....0.000 4/9/18

 

Supplements - 15B probiotic on and off. Usually helps w/ mood but sometimes is too activating.

 

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