Survivor1: sleeping after trazodone (and benzo)

[Shep]

On 2/8/2018 at 5:04 PM, Survivor1 said:

As soon as I am stable from the seroquel dc, I will begin dropping trazodone (thinking micro taper).

 

Hi, Survivor, what has changed since you wrote this? I thought you were going to start decreasing via a micro-taper. 

 

You had that very nice window not too long ago that you wrote about here. 

 

Are you seeing any patterns developing, such as worsening time around PMS or perimenopause, that might account for the wave and window activity and guide you in your taper? 

 

5 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

From:  https://www.insomnia.net/medications/trazodone/

 

Trazodone's half-life, 3-6 hours, means it is most likely to be used as a treatment for sleep onset or middle insomnia sufferers.

 

I'm going to add onto CC's post regarding the timing of trazodone. Remember our earlier discussion of mCPP? By moving this drug to earlier in the day, you may get hit with the mCPP at night, since that's a delayed reaction. 

 

On 7/19/2012 at 10:40 PM, Altostrata said:

For some people, mCPP produces not only anxiety but headaches and a hallucinatory effect. So while trazodone may help you sleep at night, mCPP might make you feel sick, anxious, and out of control during the day.

 

Perhaps try a slight reduction and see how you do. 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Shep

[Survivor1]

Hello Shep, ChessieCat,

 

Thank you for your responses.  I guess moving trazodone is out of the question.

 

By the way, last night, 4 hours sleep!  Yay!  It was very broken, but better than 1 hour.  I used the supplement NAC 500 mg, also bumped mag up to 400mg, and that seemed to calm some of the twitching/alerting.  Also tachycardia was manageable last night (80's instead of 100+ bpm).  Sweating continued, but I'll take any imorovement I get.

 

I think I'll stay put for the moment, regarding tapering, in the hopes that this is a start of better times for sleep.  I'll continue to use NAC/mag for the next few weeks.

 

As always, mods, thank you for your time and support.

[Shep]

Hi, Survivor. Thanks for the update. It sounds like this is not serotonin syndrome, but simply a nasty wave. Please be careful making more than one supplement change at a time. Best not to complicate things.

 

 

[Survivor1]

OK Shep, will not make any more changes.  Will keep posting any updates.  I'll be so glad if it's not SS, that way I can do a long hold to stabilize myself.

 

Thank you.

[AliG]

Survivor. I have been away but did answer your PM, however I don't think you actually saw it. Anyway, I'm so glad you seem to be doing a little better. A long hold sounds like a good plan, at this point.

 

I have found sleep (or the lack of) tends to work in a "windows and waves" fashion, just like all the other withdrawal symptoms ~ it comes and goes but as long as you don't hinder it, slow progress is usually made, over time and eventually positive long- term improvement can be seen. It is a gradual process that takes extraordinary patience.

 

Ali

[Survivor1]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

Survivor. I have been away but did answer your PM, however I don't think you actually saw it. Anyway, I'm so glad you seem to be doing a little better. A long hold sounds like a good plan, at this point.

 

Hello AliG,

 

Sorry, I don't seem to have received the PM.  Anyhow, thank you so much for responding.  

 

This symptom of twitching/jerking/alerting is particularly concerning for me because it is unexplained hypnic jerks that led me to psych drugs in the first place.  So I don't know if it is my old symptom that has just been masked by sleeping pills over time and remains unresolved, or whether it is from the rapid removal of mirtazepine/seroquel ...

 

On the bright side, I did get 4 hours sleep last night, so am optimistic about sleep.

 

And how about you!  I am so pleased for you about your WD (or lack thereof!).   I don't blame you for being away, you deserve it.  Whenever I hit a sleepless wave, I read the threads of past insomniacs such as yours, Shep's, MammaP's for inspiration.

 

Thank you again for reaching out to me, and I wish you continued healing.

 

 

[Survivor1]

Update:

 

Last 4 nights have been 0,0,4,4, hours sleep, and broken at that.  I am hanging by a thread with this sleep thing.  I am disheartened because I thought that by now my sleep would be somewhat stable (I dc'd seroquel 23 days ago).

 

I still experience jerks when resting, enough to prevent me from falling asleep.  These are not hypnic jerks as when I get them, I am not drifting off to sleep, just in a restful phase.  These have lessened in intensity since dc'ing seroquel, but are still strong enough to prevent sleep.  I know I harp on the serotonin syndrome thing, but my gut is telling me that this is likely what I am experiencing.  I still have tachycardia and sweating at night and soft stool in the morning (it is hard to see how this is being caused by WD from dc'ing 2.4 mg mirtazepine 9 months ago).

 

The symptoms I developed from the seroquel dc, shakiness, body aches, ear issues, are improving, with a big window yesterday.  Today, have some shakiness.  Overall, these are tolerable.  And with sleep, they would be on the back burner!

 

Sleep had gone to zero before dc'ing seroquel.  After that, there was immediate relief as the SS issues seem drastically reduced.  Then somehow it went back to "square one".  This seems like a pattern:  I decrease or dc a drug (20% trazodone, then all of mirtazepine, then seroquel).  Each time sleep would improve,  only to sputter back to zero or just a few hours after a while.  Don't understand this ...

 

I cannot reduce the trazodone just yet, still have WD from seroquel.  As soon as I am able to, I will decrease trazodone by 2mg or so.  Ideally I would like to hold for several months, but I feel I need to experiment with reducing trazodone as soon as I can to see if that brings relief from the jerking.

 

The truth is, I am scared.  The jerks are frightening, the limited sleep, debilitating.  Tapering trazodone will take 2+ years, how can I do that on this kind of sleep, with a family to take care of?  As it is, these days I do very little with family members.  I cannot make plans, because they usually involve driving.  My kids are growing up with a physically present but otherwise absent mother.

 

In the meantime, I am hoping I can manage on the limited sleep I get, and taking it day by day.

 

 

[Frogie]

HI:

 

Just wondered how you were doing?

 

I think the Synthroid is getting out of my system. I feel a little better today.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Survivor1]

Hello Frogie,

 

Thank you for checking in on me. I think I am beginning to stabilize.  Last night I got 5 hours sleep!  I am encouraged.  Will hold for as long as it takes - WD and I don't get along, lol.

 

I am glad that you are doing somewhat better.  In the past I have had to adjust (increase) my thyroid meds when I have been in deep WD.  It could be that your rising TSH may be because you are WD'ing from lexapro, and it could eventually normalize when you are off.  Whatever the case, I hope you continue to feel better.

 

All the best.

[Frogie]

4 minutes ago, Survivor1 said:

Hello Frogie,

 

Thank you for checking in on me. I think I am beginning to stabilize.  Last night I got 5 hours sleep!  I am encouraged.  Will hold for as long as it takes - WD and I don't get along, lol.

 

I am glad that you are doing somewhat better.  In the past I have had to adjust (increase) my thyroid meds when I have been in deep WD.  It could be that your rising TSH may be because you are WD'ing from lexapro, and it could eventually normalize when you are off.  Whatever the case, I hope you continue to feel better.

 

All the best.

I'm glad you got some sleep! Now hold, hold, hold and sleep.😴😴😴

 

The dr said it could be subclinical hypothyroidism. We are just going to keep a watch on my TSH because all my other numbers are ok. Hopefully it is WD, that would be wonderful!

 

The only thing that concern me is my blood pressure has been low. But that could be from not doing anything either.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Survivor1]

Update:  1 month after d/c'ing seroquel and 9 months after mirtazepine.

 

I am doing OK'ish.  WD from the seroquel is strong but tolerable.  

 

SXS -

 

Body aches, heavy limbs, shakiness.  

 

The worst are head noises that I seem to have.  Last night, as I was trying to sleep, it sounded as if an elephant was trumpeting inside my head, no exaggeration!  Then I jolted awake.  It was a loud screech/drone?  I have also had at other times, popping, grinding, crunching.  They are very disconcerting, and I cannot seem to find many people who had this symptom.  I have had it a few times during the mirtazepine WD (maybe more than a few times, but was able to sleep through it), but since dropping seroquel and a small dose of trazodone (0.8 mg), the noises are not ignorable.  If anyone else has had similar head issues, I would love to hear about it.

 

Sleep has settled in to about 4 hours a night. Because of the head noises, other alerting sensations, body jerks, and the dreaded 3 am awakening, I cannot seem to sleep for longer.  Do not know what else to do but hold and hope for the best.

 

 

[Frogie]

4 minutes ago, Survivor1 said:

Update:  1 month after d/c'ing seroquel and 9 months after mirtazepine.

 

I am doing OK'ish.  WD from the seroquel is strong but tolerable.  

 

SXS -

 

Body aches, heavy limbs, shakiness.  

 

The worst are head noises that I seem to have.  Last night, as I was trying to sleep, it sounded as if an elephant was trumpeting inside my head, no exaggeration!  Then I jolted awake.  It was a loud screech/drone?  I have also had at other times, popping, grinding, crunching.  They are very disconcerting, and I cannot seem to find many people who had this symptom.  I have had it a few times during the mirtazepine WD (maybe more than a few times, but was able to sleep through it), but since dropping seroquel and a small dose of trazodone (0.8 mg), the noises are not ignorable.  If anyone else has had similar head issues, I would love to hear about it.

 

Sleep has settled in to about 4 hours a night. Because of the head noises, other alerting sensations, body jerks, and the dreaded 3 am awakening, I cannot seem to sleep for longer.  Do not know what else to do but hold and hope for the best.

 

 

Sorry to hear that. I wish I could help, but I don't hear noises. It must have something to do with the med you are/were on. Different than mine.

 

I wish you the best.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Survivor1]

Thank you, Frogie.  Am hanging in there!

[Frogie]

15 minutes ago, Survivor1 said:

Thank you, Frogie.  Am hanging in there!

Me too! We will make it somehow!

[Survivor1]

Spoke too soon ... slept 2 hrs last night.  Aagrh!

[Survivor1]

Moderator advice needed please.

 

I had a doctor's appt today for issues unrelated to WD.  Got around to talking about my myoclonic jerks/alerting sensations when trying to sleep.  Discussed trying lamictal to see if it would mitigate these sxs.  She seemed open to it.

 

I am conflicted.  I do not want to a add another drug, but I need sleep.  

 

Any opinions on this before I take the plunge?

 

Thanks.

[Frogie]

6 hours ago, Survivor1 said:

Spoke too soon ... slept 2 hrs last night.  Aagrh!

Sorry to hear that. I was hoping your sleep would improve.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Survivor1]

4 minutes ago, Frogie said:

Sorry to hear that. I was hoping your sleep would improve.

 

Me too

[Frogie]

23 minutes ago, Survivor1 said:

Me too

I will hope for the best for you.

 

[Survivor1]

Looking for encouragement ...

 

Lack of sleep is really getting to me.  In the last 10 days, I had two  zero-hr nights, two 4 hour nights, one 5 hour, and five 2-3 hour nights.  The 4 and 5 hour ones were because I used the NAC supplement.  The main reason is strong myoclonic jerks while resting.

 

Last night, took Trazodone and NAC at 8:30 pm and went to bed.  Jerks started shortly thereafter, lasted for about 3 hours, had about 20 episodes.  Foot and hand flaps, shoulder winces, head snaps, even my windpipe contracted and I gasped for breath (scary).   Each episode caused heart rate to rise. Eventually subsided around midnight.  This is a pattern.  If I am lucky I then fall asleep, only to awaken at 3 am with rapid heart rate and sweating.

 

The 3 am wakeup I see is common in WD and could eventually resolve.  But what about the myoclonic jerks?  I looked at various threads but can't seem to find anyone with a good outcome on these.  I have been having these sometime since dc'ing remeron, but it has now been 9 months and no resolution. I don't think it has even improved!

 

Any input?  I am getting despondent over this ...  

 

Thanks all.

[ChessieCat]

Have you tried a weighted blanket?

[Happy2Heal]

16 hours ago, Survivor1 said:

 

 

16 hours ago, Survivor1 said:

The 3 am wakeup I see is common in WD and could eventually resolve.  But what about the myoclonic jerks?  I looked at various threads but can't seem to find anyone with a good outcome on these

 

 

hi Survivor1

I had these during the first part of my too fast taper, before I found SA.

I was dropping my dose of AD in half, and then half again OY!
and had these jerks, mostly in my legs, but also my arms sometimes, every night for several months. I had no idea it was from WD,  I was still in the dark about how many symptoms there are for WD and still believing what the drs said (that you can just stop these drugs and be fine, groan)

 

so I wasn't scared by them, just very annoyed. I slept on the sofa for most of this time and would throw my legs up over the back of the sofa many times during the night. It did help some. Not 100% but any relief at all was good.

(this is similar to a yoga pose called Legs up the Wall, you lay next to a wall, on the floor or your bed if it's pushed against a wall, and put your butt touching the wall, with your legs straight up in the air. I was doing it just naturally, without knowing it was a  'thing' and it helped!)

 

If I'd known it was a WD symptom and had found this forum I might have tried an epsom salt bath, I don't know if that might help but it could be worth a shot.
A weighted blanket may help too.

 

I had a couple of months of intense jerking, not every night, it would come in waves, as most things do

and then it got dramatically better, with only a few times a week of having the jerks.  and then, no more!!
SO- there is your good outcome- it does happen. I have not had any myclonic jerks in so long, that I can't remember when it happened last.

 

what is NAC?

 

my advice is to NOT add any supplement or drug. I know that's very hard to do when you're desperate for relief but it's more than likely going to make things worse. That's been my experience, for what it's worth.

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

looked up NAC

 

this video might help you: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/some-dietary-supplements-may-be-more-than-a-waste-of-money/

 

food sources are always safest, but even then you don't want to over do it. you want to strive for balance. 

 

ignore the advice to take a supplement, this page lists many food sources:

https://www.drdavidwilliams.com/why-you-need-glutathione

 

also I sent you a PM

 

[AliG]

Hi Survivor ~ This takes a while ~ it pays not to panic. How does one do that ?   It's usually with practicing non-drug coping techniques.

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

My philosophy, since I landed here was to stay clear of drugs and look to more natural healing methods, knowing that they hold the power to heal us - not drugs.

 

First you have to get off ~

 

What worries me, for you now,  is that you had these symptoms : even before the drugs and in effect it is probably why you went on them to begin with : having said that: lets keep moving forward ...

How do you feel that you are you traveling now?  ( oh, how I hate American spelling)

[RachelSusan]

Hi Survivor1,

 

I had myclonic jerks while resting, while falling asleep, and sometimes they would wake me up out of a sleep. I had the night sweats, as well as insomnia. However that doesn't answer your questions.  No, I did not find anything that would help.  The doctor put me on Gabapentin for my overall WD symptoms but I didn't notice a difference in the symptoms and it left me with another drug I will eventually need to get off of. 

 

As to how long I had them I just now referred to a chart I kept. They started a few weeks after I went cold turkey.  I reinstated about a month after the cold turkey and continued to have symptoms for about eleven months, although after the reinstatement the jerks weren't as frequent or as intense in severity.  I had external tremors, internal trembling and the myclonic jerks.  My chart doesn't always differentiate which of the mentioned symptoms I had during that eleven month period.  I had three months without them in which time I tapered.  The taper was too fast and what halted the taper was the return of the WD symptoms, including the above mentioned problems. At that point the myclonic jerks were moderate to minimal and the internal trembling was more intense. I stopped tapering and it took four months for the symptoms to clear up.

 

I don't know if my information helps you or not. I hope it does.  I have to sympathize though, they are really awful.

 

Rachel

[RachelSusan]

By the way, I consider myself a good outcome. I don't have them now.

Rachel

[Survivor1]

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you tried a weighted blanket?

 

I have not, have not really heard of such a thing!  But then, what do I know, lol.  I will definitely look into it.  Thank you.

[Survivor1]

2 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

also I sent you a PM

 

Hi H2H,

 

Thank you for your posts above and the PM.  I replied to your PM.

[AliG]

 Another thought may be to take your Magnesium at night as it helps to calm the nervous system and may lessen the jerks etc. A weighted blanket is also a good idea and worth trying.

 

~  you have to get off the drugs ~ then your sleep cycle should eventually even out and it will be fully restorative sleep.  It will take a while to reach this point but it's something to aim for, at least.

Edited March 11, 2018 by AliG

[Survivor1]

29 minutes ago, AliG said:

Hi Survivor ~ This takes a while ~ it pays not to panic. How does one do that ?   It's usually with practicing non-drug coping techniques.

 

Hi AliG,

 

Thank you so much for the reinforcement.  I have managed to stave off any drugs for now, and am going day by day.  I have to tell you that I read your posts often to get inspiration that one can overcome this, so thank you for that.  

 

I am hanging in there.  The fact that I have had these issues for a while is not lost on me; right now I am trying to stabilize on the seroquel dc, and am doing well in that regard with some minor physical pain and shakiness.

 

34 minutes ago, AliG said:

( oh, how I hate American spelling)

LOL, I grew up in Canada, so I get you.  Went to college in the US, and used to get spelling errors in my essays all the time.  But one gets used to it after a while ...

 

Thank you for your support AliG, I truly appreciate it.  I hope you continue to do well.

[Survivor1]

9 minutes ago, AliG said:

you have to get off the drugs

 

I absolutely agree, sometimes though our WD-addled mind takes you to places you don't want to go.  I am white-knuckling it through so far.

[Survivor1]

59 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

Hi Survivor1,

 

I had myclonic jerks while resting, while falling asleep, and sometimes they would wake me up out of a sleep. I had the night sweats, as well as insomnia. However that doesn't answer your questions.  No, I did not find anything that would help.  The doctor put me on Gabapentin for my overall WD symptoms but I didn't notice a difference in the symptoms and it left me with another drug I will eventually need to get off of. 

 

As to how long I had them I just now referred to a chart I kept. They started a few weeks after I went cold turkey.  I reinstated about a month after the cold turkey and continued to have symptoms for about eleven months, although after the reinstatement the jerks weren't as frequent or as intense in severity.  I had external tremors, internal trembling and the myclonic jerks.  My chart doesn't always differentiate which of the mentioned symptoms I had during that eleven month period.  I had three months without them in which time I tapered.  The taper was too fast and what halted the taper was the return of the WD symptoms, including the above mentioned problems. At that point the myclonic jerks were moderate to minimal and the internal trembling was more intense. I stopped tapering and it took four months for the symptoms to clear up.

 

I don't know if my information helps you or not. I hope it does.  I have to sympathize though, they are really awful.

 

Rachel

 

Hello Rachel,

 

Thank you for letting me know of your experience.  Yes you are definitely a good outcome, and is the second person (along with happy2Heal) to find that this resolves, so that gives me hope.  I have had them for so long that it is hard to know whether it is WD or something else, but if it is WD, at least I know that it can resolve.  I hear you about not getting on another drug, and considering adding something is "panic-speaking".  I am hanging in there.

 

I am holding at my current drug position and will do so for a while, in the hope that this subsides.  Only then I will think of continuing tapering.  

 

I have been reading a little bit on your thread; you are doing a marvelous job with tapering.  I hope it continues to go well.

 

I truly appreciate your support. Thank you for stopping by.  Best.

[Survivor1]

Update:

 

Have used NAC 500 mg for 5 nights straight. By third night, I could feel the jerks diminishing. Fourth night, gone. Last night, thought I'd experiment with less at 250 mg, jerks came back.  So it seems that I do have glutamate issues and NAC at 500 mg "gets rid" of them.  Downside?  Diarrhea.  Have to weigh the benefit against the con.  Because of this, I am not ruling out the use of low dose lamotrigine if I cannot tolerate NAC long term (as I don't see the jerks diminishing anytime soon).

 

So I was hoping that since the jerks decreased a few nights I would sleep Ok.  Not so; turns out I also have major cortisol issues and I was awaken at 3 am and could not go back to sleep.  I am in this situation where my sleep is affected by both the myoclonus and the cortisol.   Sigh ...

 

After many nights of sub-4 hour sleeps, I decided to try phosphatidyl serine (seriphos from Interplexus) last night. Bad reaction, feeling super shaky.  Was hopeful but I guess I am too sensitized.

 

Finally, I went to see a Chinese medicine practitioner re acupuncture for lowering cortisol.  Wanted to start me on Chinese herbs.  But I am not comfortable with that right now.  But after their exam, he said that my vitals suggest I'm like a car running on empty ...

 

Don't know how much longer I can run.

[Survivor1]

Update:  PLEASE BEWARE OF MAGNESIUM GLYCINATE

 

As some you may know I have been suffering from myoclonic jerks for a long time (over a year).  I attributed this to a drug interaction and decided to reduce my drugs rapidly as a result.  But upon discontinuing two of the three drugs, I was still having the problem.  I then thought that I had developed a movement disorder and was getting disheartened thinking that getting off antidepressants was now the least of my problems.  I decided to research "myoclonus". Without too much effort, I found the following:

 

From ClinicalAdvisor.com:  "Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), glycine, and serotonin are all purported to play a role in the genesis of myoclonus."  I also found that a form of myoclonus (palatal), involved the soft tissues of the mouth and some of those affected perceived the movements as pops in the head.  I also had experienced loud clicks and other head noises, and apnea. 

 

I then did a search on SA and found a member, Ladybug, who had a similar jerking issue, and she too found the glycine connection.  There is even a thread on this on SA ("search magnesium and body jerks"), with one member mentioning apnea!

 

Needless to say I was flabbergasted.  Two nights ago I discontinued Mag Gly after over a year of use, and the results were immediate.  NO MORE JERKING, HEAD NOISES, APNEA!

 

I am over the moon. I was having visions of me being on anticonvulsants for life ...

 

I was on 200 mg per night, dosing at the same time with my meds, thereby mistaking the movements with interaction among my drugs.  Whenever I woke up early at 3 am, I would pop another 200 mg .  The myoclonus was dramatic with head lifting off the pillow, trunk contorting and contracting, shoulders jumping.  On one of my sleepless nights, I counted over 20 strong jerks in a three hour period.  The head noises were loud and I also had an alerting sensation where I felt that something was seeping into my brain, erasing the sedation, and I would end up fully alert. 

 

I wanted to post this experience here, as I think this effect is somewhat obscure, but clearly does exist.

 

Thanks magnesium glycinate for giving me tinnitus, food sensitivities, cortisol issues (from dropping mirtazepine too rapidly). 

 

[Shep]

Survivor, just a thought. 

 

It MAY have been the magnesium glycinate or it may be related to the several other supplements you've been bouncing on and off around the same time.

 

On 3/12/2018 at 4:43 PM, Survivor1 said:

Have used NAC 500 mg for 5 nights straight. By third night, I could feel the jerks diminishing. Fourth night, gone.

 

 

On 3/12/2018 at 4:43 PM, Survivor1 said:

After many nights of sub-4 hour sleeps, I decided to try phosphatidyl serine (seriphos from Interplexus) last night. Bad reaction, feeling super shaky.

 

Please see:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

If you are still taking NAC, please add it to your signature. 

 

Please research all of your supplements. Some people find vitamins D and B12 to be stimulating and could be adding to symptoms such as myoclonic jerks. 

 

I had these kinds of movements for the first couple of years after rapid tapers / cold turkey withdrawal, but they are completely gone now except periodically during a bad wave. The best way to get rid of them is to slowly taper your drugs and give yourself time to heal. 

 

I'm glad you are seeing improvements in this symptom and are feeling better, but please, the simpler you can keep your journey, the easier it will be. 

[Survivor1]

Hello Shep,

 

Thank you as always for your input.  I do hear you about keeping things simple.  My signature is current, not taking NAC or mag anymore.  I have to take Vit D and B12 as I have tested at out-of-range low levels.  I hope to discontinue supplementing in about a month after my levels are normalized.

 

Unfortunately, I did have a recurrence of some jerking last night, but it was not as bad as when I was taking mag.  I assume it is from WD, or Vit D/B12 (I hope so, meaning it will eventually subside).

 

Currently, my sleep is terrible, I go to bed at 9:30, wake up several times until wide awake at 1 am in a sweat.  Anxiety/shakiness increase, and I cannot go back to sleep.  I am at my wits end with sleep deprivation. 

 

4 hours ago, Shep said:

slowly taper your drugs and give yourself time to heal. 

At the moment, I am in no position to taper.  I need to get the cortisol issues ironed out first before, otherwise I feel I will be digging myself a bigger hole.  I am taking Vit C 1000 mg, but does not seem to impact the cortisol.  Any other ideas? 

 

I thank you so much for taking the time to give me advice.

 

Best.