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valerj83

valerj83: Possible WD symptoms after suspending Laroxyl and Cymbalta (taken for 3 years)?

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valerj83

Hello everybody!

 

And thank you for this forum I have just discovered. I am reading it through but in the meantime I explain my story to you.

 

So, I am Italian leaving in Spain, I am almost 33 and during one of the treatments I I followed to cure my vulvodynia I unfortunately had to take antidepressants (1 year and a half of Laroxyl up to 15 drops I think) and another year and a half of Cymbalta (up to 90mg). None of these antidepressants cured me, they only relieved some symptoms and moreover I began to have side effects, so I decided to quit them at the end of 2014.

 

My neurologist told me to drop from 90 mg to 0 mg of Cymbalta in approx. 6 weeks. I experienced at the beginning a sort of vertigo which slowly went away, together with low mood. I also began having ringing which never went away. After about one month from the suspension, in February 2015 I began feeling inner tremors and shakes, I was feeling always tense and nervous, from when I woke up to when I went to bed. I went to another neurologist explaining my symptons and she referred it as chemical imbalances due to this suspension and she put me on a month on bromazepam, and I was back to normal. I suspended it and I felt the same symptoms again, so we decided to start Lyrica which could help both my anxiety and my chronic pain.

 

Lyrica helped, as the inner tremor and shakes went away, but they returned at the end of November 2015. Desperate I went back to bromazepam and I was a little better, but then I decided I want to get rid of both Lyrica and anxyolitics, so I began to take them away little by little. At some point I felt normal meds free but only for a week as I began to have jaw problems because of my bruxism, and few weeks ago I was diagnosed with disc luxation because of stress/anxiety, so my system activated again with shakes and inner tremors and ever since never deactivated. I began feeling again from the morning to the night inner tremors and shakes, together with ringings and sense of huge tension and stress and this still occurs until now. I know I won't kill or hurt myself but there are times I have thoughts I want my life to be over as I suffer too much and don't have a pause or ever feel relaxed. I forgot to tell i have mutation of Factor V of Leiden and mutation of gene MHTFR.

 

All my doctors (neurologist, psychiatrist, family doctor, cardioligist) refer my symptons as anxiety and that this is my personality and when questioned why I began to felt that way I never felt before, they say that I probably always had anxiety but until that moment my anxiety was blocked by those drugs. They said that antidepressants don't harm the brain ( I did a MRI and that was ok) and that it's not WD as my body already deintoxicated from these substances long ago.

 

I have to say, I am an anxious person and tend to worry about things but I never felt this way. I went on therapy for some years and did improve in many things so I can't explain how I feel now. I don't refer it as something psychological - of course there are some stressors which trigger me and of course I feel stress and anxiety from time to time but not that long and that high- but rather as something physical. Almost nothing except anxyolitics help me, I tried meditation, yoga, mindfulness, relaxing herbs, 5htp, relaxation techniques but I have no relieve.

 

What do you think I suffer from your experience? Anxiety or WD? What is your advice? Is it bad to resist again these symptoms and should i go back to meds or should I give time for my body to heal? And how? It's been 1 year and a half already and it's been a hell... Do you know doctors I can refer to? What should I do? Are there supplements that help our body healing?

 

Thanks a lot for your help,

Regards,

xxx

Edited by scallywag
white space, add tags

Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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Shep

Hi, valerj. Welcome to the forum.

 

A lot of what you're describing could very well be withdrawal. I'm a bit confused about your meds. This is what I was able to to put together:

 

  • Laroxyl (amitriptyline) - 1.5 years - tapered off end of 2014
  • Cymbalta  - 1.5 years - tapered off end of 2014
  • bromazepam - February 2015 for a month and then again in November 2015 and then tapered off
  • Lyrica - February 2015 and then tapered off after November 2015

 

Are you currently off all of your meds? If possible, please let us know the last dates you took each medication and any information you have about the doses, especially your final dose amount. 

 

Here is some information about withdrawal:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Some people are very sensitive to supplements after coming off these kinds of drugs, but many people do find relief with fish oil and magnesium. Please research before using any type of supplement. These links will get you started:

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

You mentioned using 5-HTP. Please be very careful with this, as written in this thread:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9933-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-l-tryptophan/

 

Please add a signature with your medication history. Here is how - Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

This thread is the place to make updates, list your symptoms, and ask plenty of questions. You'll find plenty of support, information, and encouragement here. It can take awhile for healing to happen after coming off these drugs, but in time, life will get good again.  :)

 

 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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valerj83

Hi Shep,

 

And thanks a lot for your answer.

Sorry for the confusion about my meds, here you have a clearer graphic ( I am sorry but I can't recall the dosis of some meds):

 

Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011 and then changed to

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I feel very bad, socian anxiety and hypocondrya.

My doctor prescribed me to alleviate these symptoms:

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor prescribed

Lyrica (pregabalin)- 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

 

Since March I am off al my meds but with the same symptoms which give me no rest. I have tried various supplements such as 5htp which didn't work and raised my obsessive thoughts for some weeks. I also tried magnesium and omega 3 but don't recall whether they worked or not. I am thinking about taking high doses of valerian root or passiflower, or St. Jont's Word, even though I am quite worried to take it as I know they work as antidepressants. 

I am currently doing an antiflammatory diet with plenty of whole foods, fruit and vegetables and fish and meat avoiding diary, sugar and gluten. I take curcumin and silymarin, together with magnesium and omega 3. I will think of beginning to take omega 3 at a higher level together with magnesium. Any other advice? Should I refer back to doctors? It is not adviceble to go back to meds, it it? Is exercise good? I tried to do it but that increase my symptoms, so maybe I should do it less energically?

 

I am reading the book of Kelly Logan " A mind of your own" which is giving plenty of advice of how to recover your health - this is where I learnt about the forum and the long term effect of antidepressants,

 

Thank you very much for your kind support, really I appreciate it a lot.

 

Regards

:) 

 


Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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Shep

 

Since March I am off al my meds but with the same symptoms which give me no rest. I have tried various supplements such as 5htp which didn't work and raised my obsessive thoughts for some weeks. I also tried magnesium and omega 3 but don't recall whether they worked or not. I am thinking about taking high doses of valerian root or passiflower, or St. Jont's Word, even though I am quite worried to take it as I know they work as antidepressants. 

I am currently doing an antiflammatory diet with plenty of whole foods, fruit and vegetables and fish and meat avoiding diary, sugar and gluten. I take curcumin and silymarin, together with magnesium and omega 3. I will think of beginning to take omega 3 at a higher level together with magnesium. Any other advice? Should I refer back to doctors? It is not adviceble to go back to meds, it it? Is exercise good? I tried to do it but that increase my symptoms, so maybe I should do it less energically?

 

 

 

Hi, Valerj. Thanks for the information and update.

 

You are only about 3 months off  a lot of medication, as well as being on and off supplements, so this can explain a lot of symptoms. 

 

The fact that exercise increases symptoms means your central nervous system is still upset from all of these meds, and that's really common. Many people find that walking and gentle yoga are the best ways to exercise until you are farther along in your recovery.

 

You mention going back on meds. Your most recent medication is Bromazepam, but this is a benzodiazepine, which many people report severe problems with if they reinstate after about 2 weeks. So I wouldn't go back to this type of drug.

 

You've been off Lyrica for about 4 months and the last AD was Cymbalta, tapered off in the beginning of 2015. This really is too long of a time period for a reinstatement to work without risks. 

 

Please research ALL supplements before trying them and then only add one at a time at a small dose so you can tell which ones are causing problems and which ones are helping. The one that looks the most risky is valerian. There are a lot of warnings about this one, especially for those of us who were using benzodiazepines. Please see this thread for more information:

 

Valerian Root

 

I placed links to the fish oil and magnesium threads in my previous post because those seem to be the ones that many members have good results with. But again, try only one supplement at a time and in very small doses. 

 

I'm going to ask the senior mods to take a long over this just in case there is something more that you might do. 

 

In the meantime, please look over these links for information on non-drug coping techniques. You may very well be in the position I wound up in - I came off too many drugs way too quickly and dealt with distressing symptoms for a long time. The non-drug coping techniques really help me deal with my symptoms and I'm learning a lot by putting them into practice. In the end, we really do learn a lot of great ways of handling depression, insomnia, anxiety, etc. by simply getting through this. And in the end, we come out much stronger than we were when we started on these meds. I hope this gives you a bit of hope.  :)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Altostrata

Welcome, valerj.

 

Did Lyrica help the ringing in your ears?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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valerj83

Hello everybody!

 

I haven't written any posts for some weeks on this forum as I wanted to try to cope with my issues through psychotherapy.

 

My major symptom is anxiety, in the psysical form of inner tremors, constant agitation and nervousness (from when I wake up till I go to bed) and rigging, and my mental symptons are generalized anxiety, hypocondria and social anxiety. My therapist ackwoledges the fact that when one gets off medications one feels the symptoms I notice but thinks that now the point is to work on anxiety treating the causes of it (i.e. letting go any control and perfectionism, not looking for medical tests to calm my anxiety caused by hypocondria, etc.) and appyling acceptance, attitude and gratefulness, as well as doing yoga and meditacion, eating a healthy diet, sleeping well and doing mild sport. 

 

Why do you think of my therapist's opinion? Can the anxiety we feel be healed from this psychological point of view or is it mainly physical? I used to have a little bit of anxiety before beginning taking the meds (which I took for a problem of neuropathy, not mental issue) but now this anxiety is 100 times more (physical symptoms and generalized anxiety I never had, and much more hypocondria and social anxiety). 

 

My GP doesn't think this anxiety is related to WD but that it is due to my personality, and suggests going back to benzos to calm my body as he says anxiety can be bad for the body, but even though I know it would help, I think it can be a double-edged sword as in this way I don't accostum the body to be off the meds and gives the food it craves. What do you think? On the contrary my psychiatrist and my neurologist say I can try to heal the anxiety through any natural treatment or I can back to an AD, but again, I don't want to as I want to break the wheel somehow. What do you recommend? Wait for the body to recover withouth any further help or go back to meds in case my anxiety can be harmful? 

 

By the way I began to take omega 3 (I am up to 800 DHA and 1600 EPA) and this seems to help a little bit. I don't know what to do with magnesium as I used 200mg/day for some weeks but I didn't find a great improvement, plus I know that it can be dangerous for the calcium balance. Considering that valerian and 5HTP are not good for us, what do you think of other calming herbs such as passionflower?

 

 

BTW, I did health tests too and thyroid is ok, but I have C Reactive Protein a little high (8mg/L), so I don't know where it can come from, I will investigate.

 

Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it a lot.

 

PD. Alto, Lyrica didn't help me with the rigging.

 

Kind regards,

Valeria


Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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valerj83

I forgot, I have the MTHFR mutation (eterozygotus), my Vit b12 levels and folate levels used to be ok. Should I try anyhow supplementations of Vit b12 and methylfolate (I used to take folic acid) or it the levels are ok they would be useless?


Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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valerj83

Hi again,

 

Just another short question as I can't find the answer on the forum. As I took for several years both AD and benzos, I was wondering if there is a way to know whether my WD is due to benzos or to AD (or both). Are advice and supplements (magnesium, omega 3, NAC, Curcumin, etc) valid for both meds?

 

My anxiety levels are high and I am seriously thinking to go back to meds (benzos mainly), is it not advisable at all, is it? I am worried my body can get sick (due my bruxism I got disc jaw displacement). Should I resist anxiety t? Plus, my PCR is high (8mg/ liter) and I am afraid it can because of all this stress. Is is normal? What do you recommend me to do?  

 

Thanks,

Valeria 


Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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scallywag

Valeria  --  It would be very difficult at this point to identify which discontinuation is the source of withdrawal symptoms.  You had a several changes in the last 18 months (Cymbalta, on and off bromazepam, on and of Lyrica, on and off bromazepam). This series of changes is the source of your destabilized CNS (central nervous system).

 

We suggest magnesium and omega 3 fatty acid supplementation to any one who's coming off a neuroactive/psychiatric drug, regardless of the class of medication (benzodiazepene, SSRI, neuroleptic, etc.)

 

What non-drug techniques are you using to deal with your symptoms? For some ideas, read this topic:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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valerj83

Hello everybody!
I am quite a mess  :unsure: (and today it is my 33th birthday, i should feel happy but I am not)-... I still feel a loooooot of anxiety (this week I am on vacation it has gotten worse)  in terms of palpitations, craneal ringing, tremors, nervousness, imsonia, nausea (generalizes anxiety), apart from obsessive thougths, social anxiety, and health anxiety ..  I began with these sympons when I still was on 75mg Lyrica at the end of November- which I was put because of a lighter anxiety due once tapered other psych drugs and I took off Lyrica in February when I was still feeling that anxious. Bromazol help at the beginning but then my anxiety, also due to a luxation of jaw due to bruxism, went very high and this is mantained until now.

I have suicidal thoughts as well, as thoughts of harming people (ie. throwing my nephew out of the window). I am ashamed of these thoughts but they sometimes arise and i try to see that it is not me thinking it but the effect of drug.

 

I have been trying everything in these last weeks: omega 3, magnesium, Gestalt therapy, meditation, good sleep, sports, diet (the one advised by Kelly Brogan in her book).. but nothing seems to help. One of my big concerns is health, I am obsessive and extreme hypocondriac as all begin shortly after beginning Lyrica last June 2015. In August I began to feel/have different diseases so I began to run to all doctors, in May due do high bruxism I was diagnosed with jaw luxation and now I apparently have a pelvic inflammation for which some meds wanted to put me in hospital for better treatment. I have no peace, nor my parents or my boyfriend.

My therapist is convinced it is me not the drugs, she is aware that once you get off some drugs you experience bad sensations but it is still my personality. I used to feel anxious and hypocondriac and to have social anxiety before beginning the drugs (which I was put for chronic pain, not anxiety), but not that much, maybe 10%.

 

Can such a high anxiety harm my body? Due my last ilnesses I thought so. MY MD, psychiatrist and neurologist advise to go back to meds- either a benzo or an AD (Laroxyl or SSIR) and then taper slowly, but i don't know what to do. I want to be back to the normal Valeria I used to be (anxious sometimes yes, but positive and smiley) and I don't know which is the way. This is not life, I'd rather kill myself as I also harm people i love with my suffering. Would you advise to go back to medS or should I keep on with this pain?

Furthermore, I would like to get pregnant soon... should I wait until i get stabilised? I know I can't get pregnant on psych drugs.

 

I was thinking of beginning CBT as Gestalt therapy seems not to help me anmore, plus beginning acupuncture and mild sport such as swimming. A friend of mine advised me to take some calming drops of a herborist, let see if they work.

 

Thanks a lot my friends.

Valeria


Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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ChessieCat

Hi Valeria,

 

I'm sorry that you aren't feeling very good at the moment, especially on your birthday.

 

Members here often report that their withdrawal symptoms get worse when they are on holiday and sometimes for about 2 weeks after they get back home.

 

Going back on any drugs may be risky and make things worse than they are.

 

Here is a link about acupuncture.

 

Some information from the above topic to take note of:

 

Post #8:  "Make absolutely sure your acupuncturist understands you want calming treatments, not stimulating treatments."

 

Post #6:  "make sure that they understand that you do NOT want detoxification."


NEW!!!               INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder               NEW!!! 

 

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015  Current from 14 Nov 2020:  Pristiq 0.50 mg

My tapering program                                      My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

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valerj83

Hi ChessieCat,

Thank you for your quick response.

 

My family and friends will be coming soon to see me so I will try to be as cheerful as possible, I know attitude makes a lot, even though it is hard to always stay happy in our state.

 

Why do you think going to meds can be risky? It is true actually that after being on Lyrica after some months my anxiety got much worse, but would any med be harmful? Even a benzo at light dosage? I just don't want to remain like this any more, this is not life and I am risking my health, my boyfriend, my work.. 

 

I will give another try to acupuncture, I did some sessions at the beginning at the year but they were basically liver detox so that didn't help. Let see if they may work.

Any other advice? Would CBT help?

Apart from my suffering in having anxiety I am also afraid that the anxiety may harm my body (as it happened with my jaw which got dislocated  because of bruxism).

 

Thanks a lot!!!


Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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ChessieCat

Hi Valeria,

 

I hope you can feel some pleasure when your family and friends are there.

 

One of the other mods (staff) will be better able to explain the risks involved with drugs.  Especially benzos which can very quickly become addictive.

 

Did you read:  The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

As mentioned in other posts it is good to learn non-drug techniques to cope.  Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety.

 

  1. Acceptance
  2. Acceptance and Mindfulness
  3. Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System
  4. "Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms
  5. Change cognitive framing - Redirect - Another Way
  6. Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression
  7. Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons

NEW!!!               INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder               NEW!!! 

 

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015  Current from 14 Nov 2020:  Pristiq 0.50 mg

My tapering program                                      My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

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JanCarol

Hey Valerj - The links that Chessie has given you are excellent resources!

 

I'll try and address the questions you maybe haven't had answered yet:

 

Your inner restlessness is called "akathisia," and is a common withdrawal symptom/side effect of AD's.  Bruxism is, too.

 

Many of us have gotten a mouthguard to sleep with - and I was tempted to use mine in the daytime today, as my TMJ is flaring up and it helps me relax my jaw.  There are expensive ones from a dentist, or inexpensive sport ones from a chemist.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2016-tremors-shaking-body-vibration/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7292-face-jaw-tongue-muscle-tension-and-pain/

 

There are many symptoms which can manifest in withdrawal.  Here is a list of the most common ones:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

You wrote:

My major symptom is anxiety, in the psysical form of inner tremors, constant agitation and nervousness (from when I wake up till I go to bed) and rigging, and my mental symptons are generalized anxiety, hypocondria and social anxiety. My therapist ackwoledges the fact that when one gets off medications one feels the symptoms I notice but thinks that now the point is to work on anxiety treating the causes of it (i.e. letting go any control and perfectionism, not looking for medical tests to calm my anxiety caused by hypocondria, etc.) and appyling acceptance, attitude and gratefulness, as well as doing yoga and meditacion, eating a healthy diet, sleeping well and doing mild sport. 

 

Why do you think of my therapist's opinion? Can the anxiety we feel be healed from this psychological point of view or is it mainly physical? 

 

I think that your therapist is addressing the physical as well as the emotional.  Good sleep, diet, and exercise nourish the body which will heal the brain, too.

 

It is important to separate the physical symptoms from the emotional, because we are conditioned otherwise.  Our heart races and we think: anxiety.  We break out into a sweat, and we think:  panic.  Our energy is low, and we think:  depression.  When really, might it not be the body reacting to a stimulus and there really is no need to attach to it?

 

The heart is beating fast - let it.  Well - hey, Brass Monkey and Claire Weekes said it better, here:

If your body trembles, let it tremble. Don't feel obliged to try to stop it. Don't try to appear normal. Don't even strive for relaxation. Simply let the thought of relaxation be in your mind, in your attitude toward your body. Loosen your attitude. In other words, don't be too concerned because you are tense and cannot relax. The very act of being prepared to accept your tenseness relaxes your mind, and relaxation of body gradually follows. You don't have to strive for relaxation. You have to wait for it. When a patient says, "I have tried so hard all day to be relaxed," surely he has had a day of striving, not of relaxation. Let your body find its own level without controlling it, directing it. Believe me, if you do this, you will not crack. You will not lose control of yourself. You will float up from the depths of despair. 

 

The relief of loosening your tense hold on yourself, of giving up the struggle and recognizing that there is no battle to fight - except of your own making - may bring a calmness you have forgotten existed within you. In your tense effort to control yourself you have been releasing more and more adrenaline and so further exciting your organs to produce the very sensations from which you have been trying to escape. 

 

AAFT - Acknowledge, Accept, Float, Time

 

T is for:.... 'letting TIME pass. There is no electric switch no overnight cure. Setbacks should be expected and accepted as part of recovery.'

 

There is more at the Claire Weekes link that Chessie gave you.

 

I don't know what to do with magnesium as I used 200mg/day for some weeks but I didn't find a great improvement, plus I know that it can be dangerous for the calcium balance.

 

The correct ratio of magnesium to calcium is anywhere from 1:1 up to 2:1.  Usually magnesium is limited by the way it makes you poo.  Too much poo too quickly = too much magnesium.

 

Magnesium and calcium in your diet are fine - JUST TAKE THEM SEPARATELY!  I take Calcium in the morning, and magnesium in the afternoon and evening.  (it is criminal to sell them bundled into one supplement, as they cancel each other out - but it's done, worldwide)

 

I forgot, I have the MTHFR mutation (eterozygotus), my Vit b12 levels and folate levels used to be ok. Should I try anyhow supplementations of Vit b12 and methylfolate (I used to take folic acid) or it the levels are ok they would be useless?

 

They wouldn't be useless, but there is a danger that they would be overstimulating.  Best to leave the B vitamins for when you are feeling better:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1068-vitamin-b-complex-supplement-reaction/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1328-deplin-the-l-methylfolate-swindle/

Vitamin B12

 

It is the opinion here, that MTHFR, while fashionable, is not a mutation, as 40% of the population have it.  It's just a different way of metabolizing food (and B vitamins).  Sometimes, too, the drugs can make it look like you have MTHFR, when really, it's a deficiency caused by the drugs, not by your metabolism of your vitamins.

 

My anxiety levels are high and I am seriously thinking to go back to meds (benzos mainly), is it not advisable at all, is it? 

 

No.  They are only good for short term or very occasional use (like 4x a month, max) because they are so addicting, and then you would have to taper off.  We see people suffering from Benzos daily, and they suffer just as much as AD withdrawal sufferers.  Here is the SA article:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2387-benzodiazepine-information-page-risks-and-safer-withdrawal-info/

 

Kelly Brogan has awesome suggestions for taking care of your body during withdrawal.  She uses more supplements than we do  - because she's a doctor with a clinic, and she can respond quickly to emergencies, where we are voices on the internet and helpless in emergencies.  So we err on the side of caution.  We do slower tapers, and we do fewer supplements.

 

She is a doctor who is open to education and learning, though, and she evolves over time - she used to use benzos, but no longer does:  http://kellybroganmd.com/benzos/  She no longer prescribes them, except to help people taper them.

 

If you are following her diet, you are well on the way.  You are healing.  You need to learn to live through the symptoms.  This usually means accepting them.  If you fight the symptoms, then it drains you of energy, and the symptoms become stronger.  I'm impressed that her book is already available in Spain!   :)

 

A friend of mine advised me to take some calming drops of a herborist, let see if they work.

 

I was an herbalist, years ago.  Grew the plants, made tinctures, ointments, teas, poultices and tisanes.  

 

I can vouch that they work.  However, they can be too potent, too, for a sensitized nervous system. 

 

Take care.  Even herbs can set you off.  Start slow, like 1/4 dose or 1/2 dose, to see if you will get a positive effect.  Often the calming herbs stop working in a short time, too.  It seems in general that supplements, if they work, only work for a short time in withdrawal, and if they don't work, can be destabilizing.  We have lots of topics on supplements and natural care - and most of us use them - but carefully.  Don't let your desperation make you put things in your body that you may regret later.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-treatments-diet - there you can read about what we've found works, and what doesn't.

 

Your idea to increase the fish oil first is a brilliant one.  I find I cannot "feel" the fish oil, but I believe it does all kinds of good things for my nervous system, my cardiovascular system, and my brain.  Your magnesium is probably fine at that dose.  "They say" (I can't remember who "they" are right now) that to find your dose of magnesium, gradually increase it until you get the poo's.  Then, decrease it until the poo's go away, and that is your right dose of magnesium.

 

If you want to supplement your magnesium, it is very calming to take an epsom salts bath:

Epsom Salts - Another Way to Relax with Magnesium

 

I hope you see the sun today!


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Shep

Hi, Valerj.

 

I'm sorry you're still suffering so much, but as the others have said, going back on a benzo is not advised.

 

The reinstatement period for benzos is 2 weeks, and you've been off for 5 months. You have a history of various benzos, and coming off and on benzos can cause a "kindling" effect, making each subsequent withdrawal worse:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

To add this drug again would more than likely destabilize your CNS even further and cause more problems. 

 

Please read over your thread, as there are a lot of non-drug techniques listed here that can be very effective. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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valerj83

Hi everybody,

 

And thank you sooooo much for your help.

Platinum Star, your help is priceless, I am so grateful.

 

I have read your messages carefully, and I am still in doubts of what to. I still have a lot of anxiety and what is worse, as I am holding it through night and day, my body is getting sick. I have had in the last 6 months a jaw luxation due to bruxism and recently a pelvic inflammation. I understand I have to live through symptoms but the problems is that my defenses are very low and my tension very high and I am getting sick. Maybe a drug may be more harmless than so much suffering?

I am tempted by going back to either Benzos or AD, as my doctors and family advise. I know that going back on drugs isn’t advisable but this isn’t life either.  I am also thinking of asking a sick leave and either admit in an anti-anxiety clinic or go away somewhere in the nature for a time. What do you reckon? Has any of you taken one of these options?

 

Taking about non-drug techniques, I will try them again, as I have to admit I am not very constant. So meditation and yoga again and I will go through all the links you sent me. I have been with a Gestalt therapist for 5 years but it seems our work has come to an end and I haven't found relief for my anxiety, so I may be trying CBT therapy. A part from generalized anxiety I also have severe health anxiety, social anxiety and obsessive thinking. Could a CBT therapist help me not only getting through these symptons or also heal them or are they symptoms mainly induced by wd?

 

I don’t understand what Platinum Star means with this:

 It is important to separate the physical symptoms from the emotional, because we are conditioned otherwise.  Our heart races and we think: anxiety.  We break out into a sweat, and we think:  panic.  Our energy is low, and we think:  depression.  When really, might it not be the body reacting to a stimulus and there really is no need to attach to it?

It means, it can not only be our personal anxiety which is disturbing us but on the contrary wd and our CNS which is overexcited?

 

I am under antibiotics due to a pelvic infection and afterwards I’ll be taking some sessions of acupuncture to calm my CNS too (no detoxification sessions, as I once did).

 

As far as supplements:

-       Magnesium: I am taking 200mg/day but I can’t see any improvement yet, should I increase it until I feel better and more rested? And according to the mg of magnesium, thank I should increase calcium as well right?

-       Omega 3: I am taking 2400mg EPA+DHA/day but I can’t see any improvement yet, should I increase it until I feel better and more rested?

 

I am back at work and I will continue following the diet Kelly Brogan advises, as I found some relief some weeks ago before my holiday when I got much worse. The problem is, I live in Spain so I can’t go to her clinic and I can only rely on her book and her articles. BTW, I read her book in English, of course it has not been translated (and I think it will never be actually, her ideas are too revolutionary here).

 

Thanks a lot everyone, you are all so kind!

Blessings

Valeria


Valium: 1 year approx. - begun at the end of 2010 and tapered off at the end of 2011

Rivotril: 3 years approx.- begun at the end of 2011 tapered off at the end of 2014

Gabapentin: 9 months approx., begun in March 2011 tapered off at the end of 2011

Laroxyl (amitriptyline)- 1,5 years, begun at the end of 2011 and tapered off in April of 2013 and then changed to 

Cymbalta - 1,8 years (up to 90mg), begun in April 2013 and tapered off in 6-8 weeks from 90 mg to 0 mg at the beginning of 2015.

When tapering off Cymbalta all these symptoms of anxiety began:

Physically: Inner tremor, craneal and ear ringing, tingling, continuous tension and fatigue, inner agitation, nausea in the morning and mentally: obsessive thoughts, suicidal thoughts when I fell very bad and much hypocondrya. 

Bromazepam- 1,5 month 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in March 2015 and tapered off in May 2015. As symptoms continued my doctor put me on

Lyrica - 8 months, (up to 75mg/day), begun in June 2015 and then tapered off gradually (25 mg off each month) in February 2016

My symptoms of anxiety went away thanks to Lyrica but went back before beginning to taper it off at the end of November 2015 so I went back to 

Bromazepam- 3 months 1-2 capsules/day of 1,5 mg, begun in November 2015 and tapered off in March 2016.

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Shep

 

I am under antibiotics due to a pelvic infection and afterwards I’ll be taking some sessions of acupuncture to calm my CNS too (no detoxification sessions, as I once did).

 

 

 

Hi, Valerj.

 

I'm sorry you're still struggling so much.

 

What antibiotics are you taking? Some antibiotics, especially the fluoroquinolone antibiotics, can cause massive problems especially for people dealing with benzo withdrawal. 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2435654/

 

Please list which antibiotics you are on and when you started taking them, in case this may be contributing to your symptoms. Even months after coming off benzos, people on benzo forums have reported major problems with the fluoroquinolone antibiotics and are now being warned to try another type of antibiotic first. 

 

This is a list of drugs in this class of antibiotics:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fluoroquinolone_antibiotics


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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