Mark and "Paxil"

[Cheeky]

43 minutes ago, Mark said:

I understand what you say.

However I hesitate because almost all 2016 I was at 20 ou 15 mg, and I havent had really improvement... Sometimes I had 2, 3, 4, days a little better where I could get out, etc, but it was endless "waves"...

It was hell, and now is super hell.  If I reinstate again, then nothing happens like previously, so I prefer stay without and see if I obtain little improvements...

Added to my physical symptoms, this situation gives me anxiety, despair, feelings of panic, etc

As you said, I think you understand...

yes mark but I think it would be harder without anything, I would hate to see you suffer. were all here for you no matter what you  choose.

[Mark]

49 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

yes mark but I think it would be harder without anything, I would hate to see you suffer. were all here for you no matter what you  choose.

Thanks a lot

[nz11]

Mark how are you doing?

[Mark]

Awful. I can't eat. Too much nausea... Dizziness... I'm dying.

[nz11]

  I'm so sorry you are going through this.

 

[Cheeky]

Mark how are you ?

[Mark]

After almost 20 years of "Paxil", and few years of taper/reinstate/change...  my life is over.  39 years old.

Now, 5 years of dizziness/vertigo (stars when I quit paxil first time), and got worse and worse and worse. Now, it's just awful 24h/24.  I have lost everything. Almost cant walk, cant go out.  +nausea almosty everyday, sometimes vomiting   +zaps   +tinnitus... 

Every movement of my head or eyes = awful and terrific dizziness.

i think, this is forever. i will never heal. No improvement in 5 years. Just worse and worse. Whatever I do, I take, I try.

Tons of exam : ENT, MRI, neuro, etc etc. Nothing found.

I suffer hell. My best wish : to die.  Every second of my life, I wanna die, just to stop suffering hell.

 

[ChessieCat]

Unfortunately for some people recovery may take a long time.  Altostrata, this site's founder, took many years to recover. 

 

☼-about-altostrata-withdrawal-syndrome-since-2004/

 

For members who are feeling suicidal SA suggests finding local support.

 

 

for-those-who-are-feeling-desperate-or-suicidal

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Mark. Are you taking any drugs at all?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?

[Mark]

No, I tapered a 30mg duloxetine during 1 year.  sept 2018 to july 2019 I reached 0.

Dont take anything anymore. When I reinstate, nothing better happens...

Now its hell 24h a day.

Before I had sometimes 3, 4 days better, less dizziness, less nausea.

But now, Its pure hell.  Too much nausea, cant eat a lot, 21h a day in bed.

(in the past 5 years, I have been 11 times to hospital, never found anything....)
 

[Altostrata]

@Mark, how are you doing?

[Mark]

Awful. No improvement. Now 13 month i stopped entirely sssri. Awful dizziness, constant nausea, zaps, paresthesias, etc etc. Cant get out. Im dying.

[Altostrata]

You went off Prozac in September 2017? When you were taking it, did it help the withdrawal symptoms from Paxil?

 

How did you feel while you were taking Prozac? Why did you go off?

[Mark]

Nothing better with prozac...

i dont know what to do. My life is over. I suffer hell.

[Mark]

Every second I pray to die. The dizziness became extreme, more and more through time. Nausea are horrible torture.

[Altostrata]

Okay, you did feel better when you reinstated Paxil back in March 2017. That is typical of withdrawal syndrome, reinstatement often helps.

 

Paxil, though, is very difficult to go off. What you might do, if you want to try this again, is take 0.5mg citalopram and see if that helps. This is an SSRI like Paxil but not as mean as Paxil or as long-lasting as Prozac.

 

Have you had any blood tests of your B vitamin levels lately?

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

[Mark]

Reinstatement helps a little purhaps, but i tried many time et I stay still in hell.

I also tried citalopram il the past...

Yes I had many blood tests...

I took magnesium and oil for months and months... nothing happens

[Mark]

I think more than 15 yo paxil, was just too much, and I will never heal. Brain damage.

[Altostrata]

On 8/24/2020 at 10:18 AM, Altostrata said:

What you might do, if you want to try this again, is take 0.5mg citalopram and see if that helps. This is an SSRI like Paxil but not as mean as Paxil or as long-lasting as Prozac.

 

You probably took a larger dosage of citalopram, is that correct? A very small dose might be more acceptable to your tender nervous system. What we see is withdrawal syndrome makes people very sensitive to drugs. A little can go a long way. Your decision, though.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

[Mark]

I tried many times to reinstate at different dosage, and i dont see any improvement.  I doubt that such a little dose 0.5mg can do anything for me.
Question : when you reinstate, how many time to obtain an improvement ? Days ? Weeks ? Months ?

Do you think there is an end or improvement with person like me, or its forever ?

Thanks for your advices

[ChessieCat]

29 minutes ago, Mark said:

I tried many times to reinstate at different dosage

 

Q:  How long did you stay on your dose (and which drug/s) when you reinstated?

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

30 minutes ago, Mark said:

Question : when you reinstate, how many time to obtain an improvement ? Days ? Weeks ? Months ?

 

It's a good idea to keep symptom notes on paper.  Keeping a log of your symptoms and rating them can help you see progress that you might not feel.  It helps to be more objective rather than subjective.  That is, looking at facts rather than feelings.  When we feel awful we don't always notice that one thing may have improved a tiny bit, we just feel awful.

 

[Mark]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Q:  How long did you stay on your dose (and which drug/s) when you reinstated?

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

 

It's a good idea to keep symptom notes on paper.  Keeping a log of your symptoms and rating them can help you see progress that you might not feel.  It helps to be more objective rather than subjective.  That is, looking at facts rather than feelings.  When we feel awful we don't always notice that one thing may have improved a tiny bit, we just feel awful.

 

 

About 15 years paxil, then 5 years of big mess (stop and reinstate X times..., change to prozac, citalopram, duloxetine, ). Get worse and worse at each stop, each reinstate.  Big big mess. Now nothing since 13 month...  Nothing seems to abate whichever i do.

[Altostrata]

Yes, people are often surprised when a dose as little as 0.5mg helps their withdrawal symptoms! A little goes a long way when your nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal. If it works, you'd taper off later.

 

Your choice, though, there are no guarantees.

[Mark]

25 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, people are often surprised when a dose as little as 0.5mg helps their withdrawal symptoms! A little goes a long way when your nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal. If it works, you'd taper off later.

 

Your choice, though, there are no guarantees.

When reinstatement doesnt work, what to do ? To wait for withdrawal to abate by itself ?

[Altostrata]

Options are limited. We don't know of any immediate cures.

[Heath]

Mark. I too started and stopped Paxil about same time as you. And came off too fast around 2013. I also did the same as you dr said try this and try that with different ssris.  And yes when I would restart a ssri I didn’t see any improvement and run back to dr.  check out my signature. One big thing that helped me was information from documenting what I had been through. I finally realized that it always took me around 6 months or so to stabilize on one dose and one ssri brand. Then I could think clearly. Before I had been back and forth trying this and that before fully stabilizing. Currently I’ve been stable on lexapro for over a year and tapering slowly. I’m not talking lexapro for any reason it’s just the one I ended up on .  I know we are all different. I have experienced withdrawals but not in the Lengthy duration you have explained . From what I’ve read And experienced the only way to end withdrawals is to take an  ssri. And I’ve also read there is no guarantee . If you do reintroduce an ssri as altostrata suggested give it a lengthy time As in many months and document like a diary. Hang in there Mark!

[Altostrata]

Heath, you tried a lot of SSRIs at "normal" dosages after suffering Paxil withdrawal syndrome, is that correct?

 

What we might have suggested is taking a low dose of fluoxetine or citalopram and stick with it for a while to see what it does. Mark seems to be quite sensitized, that's why I'm suggesting his sampling citalopram, a milder SSRI than its sibling escitalopram.

[Mark]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Heath, you tried a lot of SSRIs at "normal" dosages after suffering Paxil withdrawal syndrome, is that correct?

 

That's right...

I wondering if it's not better to take my original ssri (paxil) at low dose ?

[Altostrata]

Because paroxetine is so very difficult to go off, we suggest substituting a low trial dose of another SSRI, such as fluoxetine or citalopram, for reinstatement.

[Heath]

@Altostrata @Mark  yes I went to the normal dr recommended doses each time on different ssris. All the ssris worked the same for me I stabilized on each one. The only difference was they had different side effects. The reason I went through different ssris is because I would try to taper off each one and it was too fast and dr would just put me in another one. Dr doesn’t know about withdrawals. That was before I came here and learned about 10% withdrawal and adding back a little dose to eliminate withdrawal symptoms. Looking back sometimes I wished I would have told him to stick with paxil because that was what I was used to.  But I told dr I didn’t want to go back to Paxil because after years it started making me tired all the time. Basically the reason I went through those ssris is because dr didn’t know what he was doing and I didn’t either. He still doesn’t acknowledge withdrawals. Like I said I’m not suggesting lexapro it’s just the one I ended up on. All ssris should work the same the only difference being side effects. I was used to Paxil side effects. The others had different side effects so that made it a little harder and longer to stabilize on the others because I was also sensitized. I have never correctly withdrawn from Paxil so I can’t say one way or the other to go back on a little Paxil or something different. I do know from research Prozac and citalpram is easier to withdraw. If I knew what I know now I would be tapering at 10% of whatever ssri I was on. Mark I do know if you stick with one dose over time you will stabilize. What we don’t know is how long these withdrawals you are having will last after coming off too fast. I would listen to altostrata and the moderators here this is what they do. And stick with one ssri and one dose for many months and document your progress and symptoms every day. You will get through just steady I can’t say this enough same dose same ssri many months = stabilization.

[Altostrata]

There are a lot of peculiarities to reinstatement. For some people, one SSRI can be substituted for another. For others, they need the original drug, like a key fitting into a lock.

 

But paroxetine is such a bear, if you're free of it, in my amateur opinion, you don't want to get entangled with it again unless absolutely necessary.

 

Heath, your observations about different effects of each of the SSRIs you took is interesting. Could you go into more detail about this in your own Intro topic?

[Mark]

Thank you both for your advices.

Altostrata. You said : "But paroxetine is such a bear, if you're free of it," ...

If i return to paroxetine, what do you think about a very low dose between 1 to 5 mg MAX, and NEVER UP beyond this dose ? And see in 6 month if I see improvement and symtoms to abate ?

[Heath]

There is a ssri dosage equivalent chart on this forum somewhere it was published I think by science direct. @Altostrata will know where it is if you need it Mark. It may help you if anything understand the strengths of different ssris. 

[Altostrata]

Mark, I am giving you my best advice, what I would do. I would not take Paxil again. I have been talking about dosages smaller than 1mg.

 

@Heath dosage equivalencies are irrelevant in these situations. Mark has been off the drugs for years. There is no need for him to take a set dosage of any drug. He has already had a number of disasters with substituting other drugs. I would be very cautious and sample a very low dose, as I have explained, of anything.

[Mark]

59 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Mark, I am giving you my best advice, what I would do. I would not take Paxil again. I have been talking about dosages smaller than 1mg.

 

@Heath dosage equivalencies are irrelevant in these situations. Mark has been off the drugs for years. There is no need for him to take a set dosage of any drug. He has already had a number of disasters with substituting other drugs. I would be very cautious and sample a very low dose, as I have explained, of anything.

Thanks

[ChessieCat]

Just doing some sleuthing.

 

Q:  Do you drink alcohol?  If yes, how much/often?