Jump to content

Are there some who can't taper off no matter how slow they go?


ladybug

Recommended Posts

I posted this topic at PP but didn't get much help. Thought I would post here too.

 

I've been tapering less than 5% from 20mg and even though I am going slow I am still having a lot of problems. Sleep jerks, sleep difficulties, stomach problems, anxiety, depression, etc.

 

My drop from 8.1mg to 7.9mg was great. Felt better almost immediately and felt better than I had in a while, almost normal. I stayed six weeks on this dose and then attempted a 3% drop. I started feeling bad the very next day. Sleep jerks became stronger where they had been mild for a couple of months previous. I had one night where I had horrible waves of anxiety that made me feel like I was on fire and also restless. My stomach started bothering me and still is. I got scared and lowered the drop amount to 2.5%. So I basically made a drop from 7.9mg to 7.7mg. It is so disappointing when such a small drop can cause such problems. I have started to wonder if I will ever be able to get off this horrible drug. Is it possible there are some very sensitive people who can never get off no matter how slow they taper? How much slower can I go? :(

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrator

Welcome, ladybug. There are people who have a very, very difficult time quitting. Paxil is one of the worst drugs for this, and as you get to a lower dose, reductions can be even more difficult.

 

You can taper by a fraction of a milligram, even a hundredth of a milligram, at a time. The percentage isn't relevant, it's what your nervous system can handle.

 

Do you have liquid Paxil?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No, unfortunately I have been too afraid to make the switch to liquid. I have heard of others having problem with the liquid and I'm afraid since I am so sensitive that that might happen to me as well.

 

I had to switch to brand name tabs after a debaucle two years ago. I had been taking the generic made by Apotex but they stopped making tablets so the pharmacy switched me to Teva one month and Aurobindo the next month. I started going through bad WD until I realized it could be the generic change and so switched to brand name even though I couldn't afford it. I am starting to worry that the scale method is not giving me the accuracy I need at these lower doses though.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ladybug,

 

I slow tapered for 56mths and got off, and it was NOT symptom free and still isnt, but it is doable for the most part, and you will too.

If you cannot get liquid, then buy some digital jewellery scales, you can get them for about $20 off ebay and weigh your doses, that way you will get an accurate dose each day, just popped by to let you know, bad as it is, it is doable and you can do this!!!!!!!!!!

Hope this helps.

Began taking 30mg Seroxat on 15th Jan 1997 for grief issues. Remained at that dosage until Dec 05, did doctor ct, akathesia set in along with being non functional and overly emotional, brain fog. Doctor prescribed prozac, propranelol and diazeapam to counteract side effects, and told me to ct those 3 after 2.5/3 months use, induced wd seizure on 2nd day after ct. Was reinstated on seroxat 20mg in april 06, remained at that dose until Nov 07 and began a very slow taper lasting 56 months, finally DRUG FREE on 11th may 2011.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrator

Thanks for those excellent suggestions, ang.

 

Ladybug -- you can also crush the tablets, or have a pharmacist crush them, and weigh powder with the scales.

 

If you make very, very tiny decreases, such as .01mg, and tolerate them well, you may be able to make drops more often. The point is to make the withdrawal as gradual as your nervous system requires.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I have been using the scale method all the way from 20mg. Problem is the doses probably vary. For instance I will weigh a pill at .140 grams, then weigh it five minutes later and it now weighs .137g. This is a difference from 8mg to 7.8mg. Plus when I weigh a 10g weight it will weigh anywhere from 9.999 to 10.002. That is still really good accuracy for such a inexpensive scale, but I need more accuracy darn it! Although, even whole pills range in a weight a great deal more than this so I may just be over thinking it. Hopefully I gather the courage to attempt a switch to liquid cause it may be the only way to consistent doses and do miniscule drops.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrator

Yes, it sounds like the liquid is something you might try for more precise dosing.

 

Phil just switched to liquid for his taper off Lexapro, it seems to be going well.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator Emeritus

I started with tapering using a scale and found that for the tiny cuts I make liquid works better. Like you I just wasn't able to get consistent enough measurements with the scale. These pills are so tiny yet so incredibly potent.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 years later...

I've been tapering prozac solution and am down to 92mL. After the last micro -drop 1% drop I had WD symptoms,

mostly heavy sadness and anxiety but these subsided and after a few days pretty much symptom free I thought I was

through it. Then symptoms came back. Was puzzled because hadn't done another drop. Then today when measuring

my daily dose in the syringe I realised I'd been very gradually, almost imperceptably hair line dropping my dose.

This would explain the  WD symptoms returning. They are nothing I can't handle as long as my life has no stress like now.

So I am wondering if sliding the dose down every two weeks by hairline drops on the syringe and dealing with milder WD symptoms 

pretty chronically is better than dropping 1% every four weeks which compresses my heart with deep sadness for days on end.

Is a smooth micro slide of almost imperceptable hairline drops easier on the brain than the jolt of a planned  1% drop every four to six weeks?

On 20 mg of Prozac for about ten years. Sept 2012 started reducing 10% a drop using gram scale, with average of one month holds.

When I'd reached the half way mark, taking 10 mg  powder out of the 20 mg capsules, I switched over to 10 mg capsules and cutting

down from those. Withdrawals got harder the lower I dropped.  May 2013 changed to 5% drops, holding until all withdrawal symptoms gone.

January 2015 changed to liquid prozac (concentration of 20MG per 5 mL) using a 1mL oral syringe.

Current dose of fluoxetine solution equivalent 3.4 mg. Any effort to drop below this has been disastrous so for the time being I'm staying at this level.
Adding 200 mg Tryptophan and 200 GABA a day has helped with anxiety.
Also take 1,300mg Omega- 3,  875mg  Magnesium, 1800mg Curcumin, 1000mg Vit C, 5000 Vit D.
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator Emeritus

I have recently finished my effexor taper by counting beads. The last 4 beads (1 mg ) was so hard because there was no way of cutting any less than 25% when dropping 1 bead. I would end up with withdrawal and had to go back up again. Eventually I realised that if I took the LARGEST beads from the capsule every day the dose would get gradually smaller. When I got to the smallest I then went to 3 beads, then 2. The last bead was about 4 months and gradually was so tiny. I actually 'cheated' with the last one because it would have been 15 months with 1 bead so I took one and threw one away, always the largest.  When I quit 4 weeks ago I haven't had any withdrawal to speak of, a little bit light headed now and again but nothing that I can't handle. 

 

So for some the gradual micro taper can work, my doses were getting smaller and smaller without me even thinking about it, cuts with no time allowance between them  and it worked for me! A bit different to liquid but maybe it will work for you if the cuts are small enough. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator Emeritus

congratulations mamma P - awesome news  :)

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an amazing taper story mammaP. Affirming to hear another's experience with these minuscule manipulations of dose on the last stretch.

Good to hear your ingenious method worked. I feel encouraged to keep on  with my almost imperceptable hairline dropping. Feels sort of organic,

like how things heal and grow. Thanks.

On 20 mg of Prozac for about ten years. Sept 2012 started reducing 10% a drop using gram scale, with average of one month holds.

When I'd reached the half way mark, taking 10 mg  powder out of the 20 mg capsules, I switched over to 10 mg capsules and cutting

down from those. Withdrawals got harder the lower I dropped.  May 2013 changed to 5% drops, holding until all withdrawal symptoms gone.

January 2015 changed to liquid prozac (concentration of 20MG per 5 mL) using a 1mL oral syringe.

Current dose of fluoxetine solution equivalent 3.4 mg. Any effort to drop below this has been disastrous so for the time being I'm staying at this level.
Adding 200 mg Tryptophan and 200 GABA a day has helped with anxiety.
Also take 1,300mg Omega- 3,  875mg  Magnesium, 1800mg Curcumin, 1000mg Vit C, 5000 Vit D.
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 years later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Alto posted this to a member regarding citalopram:

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

it could be that at dosages less than 5.75mg, your system is metabolizing the drug so fast, its half-life is less than the usual 35 hours.

 

One way to overcome this is to split the dose. If you take part at a later time, you might be able to cover 24 hours at a level acceptable to your nervous system.

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy