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Machinehead: Should I go back?


Machinehead

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hmmm....I had some twitching in my legs and arms when I switched but it is better...hope you feel better soon.

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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hmmm....I had some twitching in my legs and arms when I switched but it is better...hope you feel better soon.

Thank you my friend...I wish you the best. Be strong! We are beautiful! Life is beautiful!

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Hej Machinehead!

Jag har läst din tråd och känner igen mig i mycket av det du går igenom.

Det tog över 5 år att lista ut att det var de antidepressiva som ställde till mina problem å i november 2014 började jag sätta ut Cipralexen i vad jag trodde va ett långsamt tempo. Va utan tabletter i mars 2015. Jag är inne på min 17:e månad utan Cipralex och det är en brutal, skoningslös resa med helt ofattbara symptom.

Under dessa sju år har jag inte funnit någon läkare som förstår denna utsättningsproblematik på något som helst plan. Allmänpsykläkarna är nog de värsta för dom gäller antingen doshöjning eller byte av preparat, att påpeka att det med största sannolikhet är de antidepressiva som ställt till skiten är många gånger meningslöst då dom inte lyssnar i sin okunskap.

Vissa symptom har försvunnit, andra har tillkommit. Vissa symptom "muteras" andra symptom ökar i intensitet medans andra minskar. För mig är det alltid samma visa, om något hemskt symptom till **** ger med sig, tar något annat symptom över som är minst lika jobbigt och det är alltid de symptom som är i fokus för stunden som är det mest jobbiga.

Det som påpekas om och om igen på detta forum är att tiden är vår bästa(enda) vän, jag lever en dag i taget, ibland en timme, en minut åt gången.

Har du några frågor till mig så tveka inte, jag kanska har några tips som kan underlätta.

Föredrar att skriva på svenska då jag inte kan uttrycka mig exakt som jag vill på engelska!

Ta hand om dig!

Klomipramin 25-150mg 2002-2013

Sertralin - 6 weeks in 2009

Mirtazapin - 7 weeks 2013

Cipralex -  20mg Nov 2013 - Nov 2014

 

Tapered Cipralex from Nov 2014-Mars 8 2015

 

Thyroid - Low metabolism

 

Levaxin - 2010 - 25ug - 175ug

Liothyronin(T3) -  10ug - Nov 2014 - Nov 2015

 

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Hej Machinehead!

 

Jag har läst din tråd och känner igen mig i mycket av det du går igenom.

 

Det tog över 5 år att lista ut att det var de antidepressiva som ställde till mina problem å i november 2014 började jag sätta ut Cipralexen i vad jag trodde va ett långsamt tempo. Va utan tabletter i mars 2015. Jag är inne på min 17:e månad utan Cipralex och det är en brutal, skoningslös resa med helt ofattbara symptom.

 

Under dessa sju år har jag inte funnit någon läkare som förstår denna utsättningsproblematik på något som helst plan. Allmänpsykläkarna är nog de värsta för dom gäller antingen doshöjning eller byte av preparat, att påpeka att det med största sannolikhet är de antidepressiva som ställt till skiten är många gånger meningslöst då dom inte lyssnar i sin okunskap.

 

Vissa symptom har försvunnit, andra har tillkommit. Vissa symptom "muteras" andra symptom ökar i intensitet medans andra minskar. För mig är det alltid samma visa, om något hemskt symptom till **** ger med sig, tar något annat symptom över som är minst lika jobbigt och det är alltid de symptom som är i fokus för stunden som är det mest jobbiga.

 

Det som påpekas om och om igen på detta forum är att tiden är vår bästa(enda) vän, jag lever en dag i taget, ibland en timme, en minut åt gången.

 

Har du några frågor till mig så tveka inte, jag kanska har några tips som kan underlätta.

 

Föredrar att skriva på svenska då jag inte kan uttrycka mig exakt som jag vill på engelska!

 

Ta hand om dig!

Hej och tack så mycket för ditt inlägg! Det har varit precis exakt som du beskriver för mig med. Det enda som skiljer oss åt är nog övertygelsen om att folk på denna sida vs läkare har rätt/fel. Jag tror ingen/båda har rätt.

Jag är nu, efter att ha levt 17 år med tabletter, lyckats bli av med benzo (efter 13 år!) och nu de sista 5 månaderna levt i helvetet övertygad om att saker inte är svart-vita. SSRI har hjälpt mig mer än skadat mig trots abstinensen och efterverkningarna. Jag tror att det finns en anledning till att vi började ta dessa mediciner och att den anledningen inte "botas" av ssri precis som insulin inte botar diabetes. Jag tror att grunden till våra problem åter tar kraft när preparatet lämnat kroppen, som vetenskapligt bevisat sker efter några veckor, om ens det.

Jag tror inte att vi bör lura oss själva. Om du mådde bättre med din medicin så bör du ta den. Vägran att göra det är just en symptom på att man inte tänker logiskt.

Får hjärnan svårt med att återhämta sig efter ssri? Självklart....men vad återhämtar den sig TILL?...Jo...den återhämtar sig till ditt jag utan piller.

Jag känner att jag börjar fungera igen, bara efter 2 dagar med endast 2,5mg. Jag tänker inte börja tänka sönder mig kring vad, vem, hur. Jag har ett liv att leva...och är inte odödlig. Jag tänker inte gå runt och skylla min sjukdom på en medicin då jag minns hur jag mådde när jag började.

Åter tack för dina ord och fortsatt lycka. Jag önskar du hittar en väg där du lider så lite som möjligt. Livet är så full av smärta i vilket fall!!!

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Det är ju så att för vissa fungerar preparaten precis som dom ska och varken in eller utsättning är nån större pärs, två av mina systrar har testat och kommit undan mycket lindrigt medans jag drabbats hårt. Alla människor är ju olika och jag kan bara tala för mig själv men jag hade aldrig behövt dessa preparat, de hjälpte mig inte ett dugg mot ocd. Ocd:n har blivit mycket bättre i detta kaos och det EFTER att jag slutat med SSRi, mycket märkligt. För en del människor är ju medicinerna just en krycka för att orka ta tag i och arbeta med sina problem. Det borde finnas rigorösa tester som avgör om man tål dom eller inte. Inget av dessa preparat borde få lanseras utan ett slags motgift....Önsketänkande jag vet.

 

Gott att du känner lindring ibland önskar jag att jag kunde gå tillbaka i tiden och trappa ut skiten under betydligt längre tid.

 

Ta hand om dig !

Klomipramin 25-150mg 2002-2013

Sertralin - 6 weeks in 2009

Mirtazapin - 7 weeks 2013

Cipralex -  20mg Nov 2013 - Nov 2014

 

Tapered Cipralex from Nov 2014-Mars 8 2015

 

Thyroid - Low metabolism

 

Levaxin - 2010 - 25ug - 175ug

Liothyronin(T3) -  10ug - Nov 2014 - Nov 2015

 

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Hello everyone

 

Just took my 4th dose today of tiny 2,5mg escitalopram. Something is changing. I have had LOTS of anxiety yesterday and today during the day, calmer now. I've had like 4 panic periods during reinstatement but I already had th before reinstating so, but at the same time I've managed to live somewhat normal even though I suffer. I've rode my bike, went to cinema today and even played my instrument...

I feel the drug makes me quite anxious even at this little dose but is making me somewhat calmer "normal" in another way, I guess I'll have to sit still until at least a week goes.

 

Amazing such a difference is already plausible with 1/4 of a low treatment dose...

 

PS: strongest symptoms: anxiety and surreal feeling, occasional panic.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks for letting us know that you are getting improvements with the reinstatement after 4 days. You'll likely see a few more over the next week. :D

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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6th dose this evening. Still fragile but managing to live somewhat normally. It hurts, it's uncomfortable but it works.

 

My weakness, fear and sadness is slowly transforming to anger and a feeling of revenge (against fate?). I have taken a walk, watched movies and manage to study a little bit today. I would say I'm more stable than day one, definitely.

 

Main symptoms are now a sore head, mild dizziness, some sleepiness, mild anxiety and lots of thoughts about me "being sick" and "weak" for not managing having this serotonin-problem, whether it is WD or not.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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You're not weak machinehead. Tapering pharma psych substances is NOT for the weak.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

Hello everyone.

 

It's been a week now and my anxiety is still high, on the border to panic almost every day. I know it's just been a week but I also know my dose is ridiculously low (2,5mg).

I was thinking about increasing to my last "feeling ok"-dose 5mg which is what my doc wanted to do from the beginning.

 

What's your opinion? Give my actual dose another week (and not being able travelling to Spain, because of the flight-stress) or increase to 5 after a week (today) and maybe heighten the chance to feel better faster (with possible heightened anxiety this week?).

 

God I'm so tired of this ****.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hey Machinehead,

 

Your most noticeable symptom since reinstating is increased anxiety and panic episodes. Do you feel it's the same kind of anxiety and panic that you had before, or does it feel different?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

I only read your first paragraph at the top but I think i have some ideas for you. Are you sure when you start to feel uncomfortable, that what isn't happening is maybe low blood pressure? Or dehydration? Too much protein and not enough carbs? I only ask this because all those things can make you feel not good. But then you develop a secondary anticipatory anxiety from that bad feeling so then you will feel freaked out all the time. You DO NOT need medication to address this. I say this becayse you are athletic so this could apply to you and the typical clean athletic lifestyle.

Things to help: stay hydrated. Drink nonfat lactose free milk, like 2-3 glasses per day. Eat whole grains, 5 servings a day at least. Avoid refined grains. Personally, 100 percent whole grain wheat is the best option unless you have celiac (i worked in gastro for years). Eat food with antioxidants. That helps to get rid of free radicals. Make sure you eat enough. Everyone needs around 2,000 cals a day give or take (no this does not cause weight gain when done right, it actually makes you toned). Monitor BP when you feel weird. If it is dropping, you may be dehydrated but also wearing compression stockings helps. If you have to sit extended periods at work this creates hypotension because blood pools in the legs as we get older. Make sure you get enough salt. If you eat whole food only pretty much, then you need to add salt to your food. If you eat junk then you dont need to add it. Choose coarse salt or himalayan salt. Avoid iodized salt because the dextrose in it which is corn sugar usually makes people burp a lot. See if that helps. It is worth a shot :)

On Zoloft 50 mg for 15 years. waa having basic stress and they said "here try this". Tried multiple times to get off and got discontinuation syndrome every time. Finally after weaning over 6 months I was able to quit Zoloft July 1, 2016. Doing well and finally did not get sick. Zoloft gave me neurological disorders which is why I got off... Fasiculations, resting tremors, spasms, facial grimacing, low BP (POTS), nocturia etc too long to list but now I am doing well and each day get better.

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Hey Machinehead,

 

Your most noticeable symptom since reinstating is increased anxiety and panic episodes. Do you feel it's the same kind of anxiety and panic that you had before, or does it feel different?

Hello

 

I feel it's somewhat more manageable but still under acceptable levels. Before this week I just cried in psychic pain. It's somewhat less severe.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

Link to comment

I only read your first paragraph at the top but I think i have some ideas for you. Are you sure when you start to feel uncomfortable, that what isn't happening is maybe low blood pressure? Or dehydration? Too much protein and not enough carbs? I only ask this because all those things can make you feel not good. But then you develop a secondary anticipatory anxiety from that bad feeling so then you will feel freaked out all the time. You DO NOT need medication to address this. I say this becayse you are athletic so this could apply to you and the typical clean athletic lifestyle.

Things to help: stay hydrated. Drink nonfat lactose free milk, like 2-3 glasses per day. Eat whole grains, 5 servings a day at least. Avoid refined grains. Personally, 100 percent whole grain wheat is the best option unless you have celiac (i worked in gastro for years). Eat food with antioxidants. That helps to get rid of free radicals. Make sure you eat enough. Everyone needs around 2,000 cals a day give or take (no this does not cause weight gain when done right, it actually makes you toned). Monitor BP when you feel weird. If it is dropping, you may be dehydrated but also wearing compression stockings helps. If you have to sit extended periods at work this creates hypotension because blood pools in the legs as we get older. Make sure you get enough salt. If you eat whole food only pretty much, then you need to add salt to your food. If you eat junk then you dont need to add it. Choose coarse salt or himalayan salt. Avoid iodized salt because the dextrose in it which is corn sugar usually makes people burp a lot. See if that helps. It is worth a shot :)

Thank you, I'll try to apply your tips.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Need an answer please... :(

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

It's been a week now and my anxiety is still high, on the border to panic almost every day. I know it's just been a week but I also know my dose is ridiculously low (2,5mg).

I was thinking about increasing to my last "feeling ok"-dose 5mg which is what my doc wanted to do from the beginning.

 

What's your opinion? Give my actual dose another week (and not being able travelling to Spain, because of the flight-stress) or increase to 5 after a week (today) and maybe heighten the chance to feel better faster (with possible heightened anxiety this week?).

 

Hey Machinehead,

 

Your most noticeable symptom since reinstating is increased anxiety and panic episodes.

 

Do you feel it's the same kind of anxiety and panic that you had before, or does it feel different?

 

Machinehead, next step depends on your symptoms.  Please post a bit more about the anxiety and panic you're experiencing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

 

It's been a week now and my anxiety is still high, on the border to panic almost every day. I know it's just been a week but I also know my dose is ridiculously low (2,5mg).

I was thinking about increasing to my last "feeling ok"-dose 5mg which is what my doc wanted to do from the beginning.What's your opinion? Give my actual dose another week (and not being able travelling to Spain, because of the flight-stress) or increase to 5 after a week (today) and maybe heighten the chance to feel better faster (with possible heightened anxiety this week?).

Hey Machinehead,

 

Your most noticeable symptom since reinstating is increased anxiety and panic episodes.

 

Do you feel it's the same kind of anxiety and panic that you had before, or does it feel different?

Machinehead, next step depends on your symptoms. Please post a bit more about the anxiety and panic you're experiencing.

 

 

I answered, further up...

 

Hello

 

"I feel it's somewhat more manageable but still under acceptable levels. Before this week I just cried in psychic pain. It's somewhat less severe."

 

...anxiety comes and goes but some days it's unbearable. I get this anticipatory panic anxiety that sometimes can hold on the whole day. Yesterday was one of those days. Ended with a full blown, shaking, "I'm dying" panic attack. They almost always happen some hours after I take the pill.

I took a small dose hydroxizin (Atarax) for the post-panic and it actually made things drowsier but better.

 

Called my doc today, he said: your dose of 2,5mg is almost homeopathic. Take at least 5. 10 is the normal lowest. If you feel bad just take another Atarax.

 

Sometimes I think the whole thing is being psychological. I'm just afraid of the SSRI.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks for pointing out your response.  I missed it, don't know how, but I did.

 

Your expanded reply immediately above this post is very helpful.

 

If the panic attacks arise consistently a few hours after taking the pill, then it's likely that escitalopram is causing the anxiety and panic. A combination of 2 things is probably causing this:

  • your CNS is now sensitized to SSRIs (probably temporarily) and the drug acts paradoxically for you at certain doses
  • the dose of 2.5 mg is too high.

 

The best choices now are either to

  1. decrease your dose to 1.25 mg or less,

    *or*
     
  2. stop taking escitalopram altogether.

 

The dose reduction is the more gentle approach. That's the one I would try. But that's me thinking about my own experience with psych drugs.

 

What questions do you need answered to make this decision?

 

-----

For what it's worth, your doctor is wrong -- 2.5 mg of escitalopram is not a trivial amount. Have you looked at the paper that documents the dose - serotonin transporter/receptor occupancy relationship?  Although escitalopram isn't studied, citalopram is. As you might guess, escitalopram is derived from citalopram. The paper still shows occupancy >20% at around 2.5 mg of citalopram and escitalopram is a stronger drug.

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

Hello Machinehead....I am trying to reinstate and get stabilized on antidepressant again...I have sever, several failed tapes/ct's since 2008 and last summer I used prozac to et off of effexor and was doing ok until I crashed and hit bottom in January of this year....tried to reinstate prozac or lexapro but that did not work ended up in the hospital where dr.'s stopped the attempt to reinstate antidepressants labeled me as bipolar 2 and put me on lamictal (mood stabilizer) and gabapentin (anticonvulsant for anxiety this was in February.  In April I started having antidepressant withdrawals again so I tried to go back on effexor and was able to do so but was having bad side effects of absolutely  no energy so I bet transitioning to prozac in June.  I am not just on prozac and I am not stabilized yet so I understand your frustration about reinstatement.

 

I too will have mixed results from day to day....one day I am very flat, lethargic, depressed, absolutely no motivation to even shower to the next day after taking my prozac being anxious, irritable and too energized so just wanted to let you know you are not alone.

 

I hope it gets worked out for you.....did you not experience the anxiousness when you went on lexapro years ago?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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I lived calmly with 5mg cipralex. What you're saying is that 5mg cipralex will NOW be bad for me. Do you hear how little logical it sounds? Lots of people have bad reactions when starting ssris, even the first time.

 

About the sensitizing....it's like saying: You haven't been drunk in a while so, nothing will happen/lots will happen if you drink again.

 

2,5 mg is low yes. Minimal therapeutic dose is 10.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Was that question for me machine head?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Was that question for me machine head?

For anyone!

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Did you have this type of reaction when you first started lexapro years ago?  If so how long did they last?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I lived calmly with 5mg cipralex. What you're saying is that 5mg cipralex will NOW be bad for me. Do you hear how little logical it sounds? Lots of people have bad reactions when starting ssris, even the first time.

 

About the sensitizing....it's like saying: You haven't been drunk in a while so, nothing will happen/lots will happen if you drink again.

 

2,5 mg is low yes. Minimal therapeutic dose is 10.

 

Therapeutic dose is a marketing term: it is probably best called the "studied minimum effect dose for rapid relief of presenting symptoms." At the dose of 2.5 mg., as you have noted above, you are experiencing effects that you weren't experiencing during the previous 5 months. The "measly" dose of 2.5 mg is undeniably having an effect on you.

 

A close friend happily consumed shellfish all his adult life. After a period of stress (nasty divorce) and training for and running a marathon, he had an extreme anaphylactic reaction to a seafood dinner. He couldn't breathe and has a tracheotomy scar on his neck to show for it.  Something completely innocuous, possibly even healthy, turned on him. There is much about the human body we don't yet know.

 

It's perfectly fine that the explanation of a sensitized CNS doesn't make sense to you.  It's the best we have right now, and anyone who uses it should acknowledge it's a hypothesis and it's incomplete. If I haven't, I will right now: The hypothesis of saying that a sensitized CNS accounts for symptoms during and after the discontinuation of a psychoactive substance (SSRI, SNRI, atypical AD, neuroleptic, anticonvulsant, etc.) is merely that -- an unproven hypothesis that has yet to be tested by rigourous study.

 

Nobody understands how these drugs actually work. There is no comprehensive body of research that has examined psych drug discontinuation or withdrawal. No study is likely to occur in my lifetime (30-40 years); the manufacturers have no incentive to do so and every reason not to study discontinuation effects. All we have is the collected wisdom of people who have tried to come off these psychoactive substances and we learn from what failed and what succeeded for them.

 

You know your body and medical history far, far better than I do. If you feel that updosing to 5 mg is what would work best for you, please do so.  

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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hello machinehead

I've been following your thread from the beginning with interest, as you and i both started posting the same day. correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are experiencing some difficulty determining what to do next. whether that be hold at or up your current dose. my question for you is this:

 

have you decided yet if you want to stay on the medication or if you eventually want off?

38 year old male

50mg sertraline for seasonal affective in spring of '13 through spring of '16

began uninformed taper mid march '16 ending 6 weeks later around may 1st

withdrawal symptoms began july 4th '16

reinstatement of sertraline at 25mg on july 7th '16

august '16 - present: many setbacks even more victories

currently holding at 25mg and ill hold there forever if I have to

looking forward to the day I can begin tapering

 

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I lived calmly with 5mg cipralex. What you're saying is that 5mg cipralex will NOW be bad for me. Do you hear how little logical it sounds? Lots of people have bad reactions when starting ssris, even the first time.

 

About the sensitizing....it's like saying: You haven't been drunk in a while so, nothing will happen/lots will happen if you drink again.

 

2,5 mg is low yes. Minimal therapeutic dose is 10.

Therapeutic dose is a marketing term: it is probably best called the "studied minimum effect dose for rapid relief of presenting symptoms." At the dose of 2.5 mg., as you have noted above, you are experiencing effects that you weren't experiencing during the previous 5 months. The "measly" dose of 2.5 mg is undeniably having an effect on you.

 

A close friend happily consumed shellfish all his adult life. After a period of stress (nasty divorce) and training for and running a marathon, he had an extreme anaphylactic reaction to a seafood dinner. He couldn't breathe and has a tracheotomy scar on his neck to show for it. Something completely innocuous, possibly even healthy, turned on him. There is much about the human body we don't yet know.

 

It's perfectly fine that the explanation of a sensitized CNS doesn't make sense to you. It's the best we have right now, and anyone who uses it should acknowledge it's a hypothesis and it's incomplete. If I haven't, I will right now: The hypothesis of saying that a sensitized CNS accounts for symptoms during and after the discontinuation of a psychoactive substance (SSRI, SNRI, atypical AD, neuroleptic, anticonvulsant, etc.) is merely that -- an unproven hypothesis that has yet to be tested by rigourous study.

 

Nobody understands how these drugs actually work. There is no comprehensive body of research that has examined psych drug discontinuation or withdrawal. No study is likely to occur in my lifetime (30-40 years); the manufacturers have no incentive to do so and every reason not to study discontinuation effects. All we have is the collected wisdom of people who have tried to come off these psychoactive substances and we learn from what failed and what succeeded for them.

 

You know your body and medical history far, far better than I do. If you feel that updosing to 5 mg is what would work best for you, please do so.

Thank you for your answer. I haven't felt worse on the reinstatement, just not as better as I hoped to.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Did you have this type of reaction when you first started lexapro years ago?  If so how long did they last?

No I didn't because I was on Benzos as well.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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hello machinehead

I've been following your thread from the beginning with interest, as you and i both started posting the same day. correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are experiencing some difficulty determining what to do next. whether that be hold at or up your current dose. my question for you is this:

 

have you decided yet if you want to stay on the medication or if you eventually want off?

Hello Oops

 

I want to feel better whatever the cost. I don't care if I have to take a small dose Lexapro.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Here's what I will do:

 

I will give this small dose of 2.5 mg another week and go with the antihistamine for calming down a bit. If by then nothing is better I will heighten to 5mg.

 

I guess two weeks should be sufficient to at least guess if a dose is working/or not?

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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Machinehead....TRUST ME I UNDERSTAND HOW YOU FEEL....I would love more than anything to be psych med free but right now I am just concerned with getting stable...to me stable means...

 

1.  No waves of anxiety, restlessness, panic for no reason through out the day.

 

2.  Sleep without a prescription sleep aid

 

3.  Have enough motivation and energy to do daily tasks around the house, cook, put on makeup, be around people....I am not asking to be miss social butterfly or go back to where I was running my own business, being the life of the party, etc.....just content, low key and satisfied...feel like I am contributing to my family.

 

I have never taken celexa before but I do know I have made mistakes with trying to stabilize jerking around my dosages so I think holding for one more week is a smart idea.  

 

Question....the hydroxyzine that you take do you take it everyday or just as needed?  

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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mh

i understand completely your desire to feel better no matter the cost and don't fault anyone for it, quite the opposite in fact. i believe we should never suffer unduly if at all avoidable. we all do what we must to get through.

 

i think your plan to hold another week and up dose if necessary is a sound plan, hopefully come to by assessing your own present  personal situation and future desires in life.

 

sometimes the best thing we can do is just make a decision, follow it through, and see where it takes us. sometimes that is the only way to get the answers we seek. it does us no good to sit at the crossroads wondering where the each road leads. sometimes its best to pick a road and go.

 

fortunately you're sitting in front of the most powerful research tool ever devised by man and posting on a wonderful forum dedicated to the very object of your concern. everyone here is here to help and get help, same as you.

 

i wish you all the best and much healing on your journey.

38 year old male

50mg sertraline for seasonal affective in spring of '13 through spring of '16

began uninformed taper mid march '16 ending 6 weeks later around may 1st

withdrawal symptoms began july 4th '16

reinstatement of sertraline at 25mg on july 7th '16

august '16 - present: many setbacks even more victories

currently holding at 25mg and ill hold there forever if I have to

looking forward to the day I can begin tapering

 

Link to comment

Machinehead....TRUST ME I UNDERSTAND HOW YOU FEEL....I would love more than anything to be psych med free but right now I am just concerned with getting stable...to me stable means...

 

1.  No waves of anxiety, restlessness, panic for no reason through out the day.

 

2.  Sleep without a prescription sleep aid

 

3.  Have enough motivation and energy to do daily tasks around the house, cook, put on makeup, be around people....I am not asking to be miss social butterfly or go back to where I was running my own business, being the life of the party, etc.....just content, low key and satisfied...feel like I am contributing to my family.

 

I have never taken celexa before but I do know I have made mistakes with trying to stabilize jerking around my dosages so I think holding for one more week is a smart idea.  

 

Question....the hydroxyzine that you take do you take it everyday or just as needed?

 

I feel you, really. The hydroxyzine is jus occasional.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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  • Administrator

Machinehead, how many hours after taking escilatopram do you get a panic attack? How often does this happen?

 

Please keep notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. This is very important, it can indicate whether symptoms are caused by the drug.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

mh

i understand completely your desire to feel better no matter the cost and don't fault anyone for it, quite the opposite in fact. i believe we should never suffer unduly if at all avoidable. we all do what we must to get through.

 

i think your plan to hold another week and up dose if necessary is a sound plan, hopefully come to by assessing your own present personal situation and future desires in life.

 

sometimes the best thing we can do is just make a decision, follow it through, and see where it takes us. sometimes that is the only way to get the answers we seek. it does us no good to sit at the crossroads wondering where the each road leads. sometimes its best to pick a road and go.

 

fortunately you're sitting in front of the most powerful research tool ever devised by man and posting on a wonderful forum dedicated to the very object of your concern. everyone here is here to help and get help, same as you.

 

i wish you all the best and much healing on your journey.

You are completely right, thank you for your words.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

Link to comment

Machinehead, how many hours after taking escilatopram do you get a panic attack? How often does this happen?

 

Please keep notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. This is very important, it can indicate whether symptoms are caused by the drug.

It happens, sometimes (heightened anxiety/panic) around 3-5 hours after taking the dose.

Never forget the psychological aspect. Not everything is the pill.

Benzo (Iktorivil; 2mg): 1999-2012 Last dose: 0,1mg January 2012

SSRI (Escitalopram; 10mg): 2002-2016 Stopped 2,5mg February 2016 - Back to 5mg in July 2016.

 

"...You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." - Churchill

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Machinehead, thanks for clarifying that your symptoms haven't worsened since reinstating, just that they haven't improved as much as you'd expected.

 

Writing a daily record of doses and symptoms:

 

I didn't realize I was going through withdrawal/reinstatement cycles while skipping doses (as recommended by my doctor) in March and April until I started tracking my doses on a calendar.

 

Keeping a record of doses, symptoms and times over several days will help you see patterns and help us to see what is happening throughout the day for you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

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