posterboy withdrawal from Citalopram

[posterboy]

Hi, i started taking citlopram in April 2015. I began on 10mg and moved onto 20mg as i wasn't feeling like it was helping. It eventually did help and i was feeling alot better. I chose to come off citlopram around 3+ weeks ago and the physical/mental withdrawls the first week were terrible. Once they subsided i felt fine, like my old self for around a week, although from a few days ago I've started to feel terribly depressed (not suicidal) a bit like my old self. I was hoping this was still the citlopram in my system but I'm confused as i thought i was in the clear after the physical/mental withdrawls subsided but it seems like they've come back. Some advice or information would be great. Thank you for reading.

Edited November 20, 2016 by scallywag
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[Altostrata]

Welcome, posterboy.

 

I've moved your first post to the Introductions forum, to start your Introductions topic. You can post about your progress here.

 

Do you feel any different now than before you took the drug? What is your symptom pattern throughout the day?

[nz11]

Welcome posterboy.

Dd you quit the drug cold turkey?

You might like to read this thread on tapering

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hello posterboy, 

 

It sounds like you are experiencing what we call windows and waves:  Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

I included the link about reinstating because you likely cold turkeyed or came off too fast and are experiencing withdrawal.  Since this is a recent departure from citalopram, we strongly urge folks to reinstate at least a portion of the drug to alleviate withdrawal symptoms and then begin a proper slow 10% taper once stable.  

 

If you choose not to reinstate, it is important to know that the longer you go without doing so, the less likely it is to work should you later decide that withdrawal is too difficult.  It is normal to experience windows and waves of symptoms, but important to know that later waves can be worse than earlier ones, often with very difficult emotional symptoms such as anxiety and depression the likes of which you have never known.  This is why we so strongly encourage a 10% taper, to allow the nervous system to heal AS you taper off, rather than leaving it in chaos coming off too fast, with ALL the healing yet to be done once off.

 

Here's our tapering info about citalopram in the event you DO reinstate:  Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

Bookmark this page so you can find it more easily when you come back with questions and updates.  By clicking "Follow this Thread" above, you will be notified of responses to your thread.

 

It would be helpful to us if you could fill out your signature block:  Please put your withdrawal history in your signature.  Please include details about when you went on Cit, dosages, and how you came off (cold turkey or taper, and if taper, then size of cuts and how long at each dosage).

 

We hope to see you back here with questions once you've had a read of the above materials!

SG

[posterboy]

Thank you all for the your responses. I came off them gradually. My Gp advised me to Go from taking 20 a day too 10 a day and then 10 every other day until i had ran out. The first week off them was horrendous. I had terrible anxiety, felt nauseous, dizzy, irregular heart beats etc. That came and gone in the first week and i started feeling better until a few days ago.Now, I would wake up feeling like i did before i started the treatment, unmotivated, lack of energy, moody and no interest in daily activities etc etc. I'm not sure what to do because I'm hoping this passes. It's incredibly hard to get seen by my doctor and even at that i dont think the advice given is helpful and i still end up leaving unsure as to what my head is doing! When i seen the link for the window and waves of stabilization I had a sudden feeling of hope!

 

There are parts throughout the day i feel myself coming around and then BOOM, back into the deep dark pool of depression.

 

Now that i am off citlopram and have been for 3 weeks is it not to late for me reinstate and then do the 10% taper or should i just persevere and give it another week, that would be 4 weeks in total. Would it not be harmful on my brain to reinstate and gradually taper off them again? And would this cause any type of permanent damage? 

 

I really appreciate all of this information, I wouldn't have known this if i hadn't of posted so that is a BIG help. 

 

And sorry for all the questions people

 

thank you

[nz11]

I came off them gradually. My Gp advised me to Go from taking 20 a day too 10 a day and then 10 every other day until i had ran out.

 

Not too sure how long it took for you to run out but lets just say it was a month. so you did a 2 month taper. In this game 2 months is very very fast. Furthermore one of the 'do nots , is do not skip or alternate doses in tapering. Mind you if our doctors dont know this how can we be expected to. So dont feel too bad.

Your gp is very misinformed on how to taper.

Sadly the words 'slowly' and 'gradually' have been given a whole new definition thanks to ssris.

If you cant cope with the wdl it is ok to ri ...checkout the link from SG it spells it out.

[posterboy]

Just over a month since i last posted. Quick update: I've continued to stay off citalopram, thought it was the right thing to do seeing as i had gone through the worst of the physical withdrawals. I am now 2 months without meds and still battling on. I've had a few windows where I've felt fine but sadly 80% of the time it's been just as bad as before. I know we've talked about the waves and windows of stabilisation and my symptoms are similar to this but i still feel like nothings going to change in the long run. I'll have a week were I'm feeling low and and couple of days after where I'm not so bad but the length of these windows and waves don't seem to be changing. I'm going to Australia in October to work and i want some kind reassurance or relief before i go (an extended period of time feeling good) Not quite sure what to do. Any advice?

 

Thanks 

 

Luke

[ChessieCat]

Hi posterboy,

 

If you are unable to cope with the symptoms you are getting (from you post it seems like you aren't coping most of the time) and because you are going/coming to Australia in October, it may be a good idea to reinstate A SMALL DOSE of citalopram which may reduce the worst of the symptoms.  The aim of reinstating is not to get rid of the symptoms completely (if it did that would be great) but to reduce the symptoms to a bearable level.

 

The longer you leave reinstatement the less chance there is of it being successful.  If you reinstate now, you would hopefully be feeling improvement and more stable for your trip to Australia.  Travelling itself is stressful and add to it that you will be working if it were me I would be reinstating.  Because of the added stress your symptoms may even worsen.  We can offer suggestions but in the end It is a decision only you can make.

 

I discovered SA after I had dropped my dose by 1/2 from 100 mg to 50 mg Pristiq for 3 weeks and had a very foggy head and ended up not being able to type.  I am a professional typist.  About 4 hours after updosing I was able to type again.  This was not placebo.  I had a baseline to compare to.

 

These helped me to understand.  The third one relates to benzos but ADs most probably cause similar things:

1. Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)
2. Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery
3. What is Happening in Your Brain

 

Please read/re-read:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

If you do decide to reinstate, I suggest you post your decision to do so here so that a dose can be suggested.  Please DO NOT reinstate at the dose you were taking previously.  Your brain will have made some adaptations since you have been off the drug.

[posterboy]

Apologies for the slow reply, been working a lot recently. If i were to reinstate what dosage would you recommend? I have a pack of 20mg citalopram with a break line in them. If i was to reinstate at a low dosage how would i go about breaking the pill up into a low dose? Or would i just go to the docs and ask for another prescription? Hypothetically speaking, if i decided against reinstating and things became very hard in Australia could i start citalopram again and then taper correctly over the course of the year?

[ChessieCat]

What are your current symptoms?  Has anything improved or worsened?

 

Here's the information about citalopram and how to get low doses:  Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

If you decide not to reinstate before your leave, I suggest you make sure you pack the Celexa so that you have them with you if you need them.  I'm not a traveller so have no idea what the requirements are for travelling with medication.

 

I'm going to ask the other mods what dosage they think you could try.

[JanCarol]

Hey PosterBoy - congratulations for surviving the acute phase of withdrawal!

 

While you followed doctor's orders, your doctor's orders were much too fast and irregular.  I'm concerned that you still have some withdrawal yet to go through.  Not everyone does, but the "relapse rate" on "antidepressants" is something like 85% within a year of discontinuation (Joanna Moncrieff).  Surely, most of that is the effect of withdrawal from the drug. 

 

Please see this:

Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms

 

You took your last tablet in June, so the soonest you could have delayed symptoms is about now.  

 

It's exciting that you are coming to Australia.  You will miss the green of Ireland, though!  Green is a very healing, soothing colour for the eyes - but then - sunshine is pretty wonderful, too!

 

When I emigrated to Australia from the US, I thought it would be easy to get established.  I had made contacts in the City where I was going to live (they were an hour away by train, however, in real life!)  All my life, I had the experience of being the "new kid" in town, so have developed strategies to go out and make friends and build community.  Because Australians speak English, I thought there would be no barriers to building a new life.  It has taken me 10 years to build community - it took me 1 year to understand what they were saying, well enough to hold a conversation!  This was a very lonely and challenging time, and it was the period which sent me deepest into the drugged state.

 

How does this apply to you?  You're young and energetic - it should be easier for you.  (I was in my 40's when I emigrated).  You will be tempted by the pub culture - the easiest way for a young bloke to make mates, which is not good for mood stability in withdrawal.  

Please consider yourself "in withdrawal" for at least 2 years.  If you can get through that period without "relapse" (going back on the drugs), then you are probably going never going back to them.  

 

However, your moving to Australia is an exciting and stressful time.  And you are right on the cusp of the next phase of withdrawal (which, hopefully you will escape - but if you do not - please remember "it's withdrawal, not relapse!")

 

See this concise post:

Stages of Withdrawal Symptoms

 

also you might be helped by this short video:

Healing from Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery (by Toxic Antidepressants)

 

So - what to do?

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

You say:

 

 

 I've had a few windows where I've felt fine but sadly 80% of the time it's been just as bad as before. I know we've talked about the waves and windows of stabilisation and my symptoms are similar to this but i still feel like nothings going to change in the long run.

 

If it were me, I'd go to a doc and get liquid citalopram.  I would start taking 2 mg per day.  Tell the doc that you are just a little under the weather, maybe concerned about the move to the furthest continent, and you'd like to try the smallest amount possible to see if it will help.  (it's not necessarily a good idea to bring up withdrawal)

 

If you wait until you go to Australia, the citalopram may have kindled your system, and may be completely ineffective.  This is how people get polydrugged, as the first one doesn't work anymore, and they keep adding drugs until something works.

 

Limbic Kindling - Hardwiring the Brain for Hypersensitivity

 

So you could reinstate now, just 2 mg - this will make your taper later, much easier, much gentler.  And liquid is easy easy to do tiny decrements for tapering!

 

With a reinstatement you may know on the same day if we are on the right track!  It takes about 4 days to reach full blood serum levels, and then 7 days before you can consider updosing again, maybe up to 3 mg.

 

Be careful with updosing, though, because changes are as destabilising as precise doses.  Each time you change, there is a "bounce" which you might feel for as much as 6 weeks to 6 months later!

 

We are hoping here to just get you a little of the "hair of the dog that bit you" to calm down the symptoms, and then stabilise on that tiny dose.  In a perfect world, you will take your 2mg of liquid Citalopram (that's just 1 ml), feel better and stabilise.  Then hurrah!  We will all cheer!  You will be ready for your adventure on the other side of the world!

 

Later, when it comes time to taper, you can dilute the citalopram (only 4 days worth at a time, please, so the solution doesn't go "off") to make up your 10% decrements.

 

What do you think?  Does this sound feasible to you?  I reckon it's really wise of you to consider this before making the big change in your life, and trying to get stable before you go.

 

I hope you see the sun today - but if you don't - you surely will in October!  (I am in Queensland, we are under cloud today, but have sunshine 4/5 days!)

[posterboy]

I agree with you saying i still have withdrawals even though part of me feels like it's the old me creeping back into the picture. I have to remember it's withdrawals not a relapse. 

 

I'm also looking forward to going away although it's hard to get excited when you're down in the dumps. I've had my heart set on travelling for a very long time and made the decision to stop taking meds before i go. I'm a social person when I'm in a social mood! A good chunk of my day is spent putting on a brave face and just rolling with it but it's not the real me and this becomes tiring making me just want to go and be by myself. I would consider the holding off for 2 years too see whether it's withdrawals or not but i would just hate for this to ruin my travels and spoil any memories.

 

I had quite a heavy night on the lash on sunday and I'm putting feeling really down the past few days to that. My lesson is learnt and i will be behaving from here on out  

 

I think you're wise in saying i should strongly consider reinstating at a low dose but personally i think I'm too far gone to reinstate and taper (judging by previous older comments). I really should have done this when i first posted but i guess this is trial and error and it's a mistake i can hopefully learn from. What are the signs that I'm too far gone and that it's not going to work?

 

I'm going to go to the docs tomorrow and ask for liquid cit and try and see if it helps.

 

I will continue to update and I hope you continue the fantastic support. It is deeply appreciated!

 

Much love

[posterboy]

What are your current symptoms?  Has anything improved or worsened?

 

Here's the information about citalopram and how to get low doses:  Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

If you decide not to reinstate before your leave, I suggest you make sure you pack the Celexa so that you have them with you if you need them.  I'm not a traveller so have no idea what the requirements are for travelling with medication.

 

I'm going to ask the other mods what dosage they think you could try.

They're still similar to what the have been to be honest. Nothings really improved as such but it's been terrible since having a heavy weekend on the drink (sunday).

 

If i do bring the 20mg celexa with me when i go and i start having extended low periods would the celexa not make things worse as my bodys basically come off them?

 

I think i'll see how I'm feeling tomorrow and if it's another bad day ill go to the docs to enquire about liquid citalopram (not sure we can get it in the UK) or a lower dose in pill form to break up using the information you've given.

 

Sorry if I'm rambling or confusing you, i find it hard to make sense of the whole thing and having a doctor that tells me to come off them cold turkey and is no help whatsoever doesn't help!

 

Thanks for your help.

[scallywag]

posterboy -- have you looked at the

- thread ChessieCat posted (#8 above) about "brain remodeling"?

- video  JanCarol posted (#11 above) about "Healing from Antidepressants"?

 

You may find that information answers your questions and addresses your concerns and confusion.

[posterboy]

posterboy -- have you looked at the

- thread ChessieCat posted (#8 above) about "brain remodeling"?

- video  JanCarol posted (#11 above) about "Healing from Antidepressants"?

 

You may find that information answers your questions and addresses your concerns and confusion.

 

I was on my phone and missed those links! just had a read/watch on my laptop. Thanks

[ChessieCat]

"I had quite a heavy night on the lash on sunday and I'm putting feeling really down the past few days to that. My lesson is learnt and i will be behaving from here on out   "

 

Glad to hear that you have learned your lesson.  Just make sure you remember it.

 

 

"I think you're wise in saying i should strongly consider reinstating at a low dose but personally i think I'm too far gone to reinstate and taper (judging by previous older comments)."

 

It's been about 9 weeks since you stop Citalopram.  From the Reinstating Information:

• Reinstatement is best done immediately upon appearance of withdrawal symptoms. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.
• The length of this window of opportunity varies according to the individual. Sometimes people can reinstate successfully months after quitting. Others cannot.

 

"What are the signs that I'm too far gone and that it's not going to work?"

 

Unfortunately there are none.  It is a case of trying a small dose and again from the Reinstatement Information:

• It takes at least 4 days for your body to fully register the addition of a neuroactive drug. Unless you have an immediate bad reaction, observe your symptom pattern for about a week to see if the reinstatement is helping. If you have an immediate bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug.
• After reinstatement, the amount of time needed to alleviate withdrawal symptoms (stabilizing) varies according to the individual. Relief can be felt immediately, after some weeks, or after some months.

 

"I'm going to go to the docs tomorrow and ask for liquid cit and try and see if it helps."

 

Just a thought:  You might want to consider the storage requirements for liquid.  If you do decide on liquid, you may want to pack tablets as well although it is better to stick to the same method so that you ensure you get an accurate dose.

[posterboy]

Just back from the docs and sadly it was a different GP who wasn't really any help at all. She just advised me to go back on them as she thinks its an underlying mood issue and not late withdrawels. I told her that i was ill advised on how to taper off the meds and she said that was the correct way and that i should just go back on them. I asked for liquid cit so i could reinstate at the very low dose reccomend to help withdrawels but apparently we don't do that in the uk so she prescribed me 10mg of cit but they don't have a breakline and are too small to break!

 

So I'm stuck between a rock and a hardplace. Don't know what to do, do i stick it out in the hope that the windows outnumber the waves or do i go back on them for another year or failing that find another drug. Heads just a bit all over the place atm. I've a lovely big 10 hour shift to get thru hear so plenty of time to think.

[scallywag]

posterboy -- Many people taper their meds by Making a liquid from a tablet or capsules

 

Have a look at that. If you have any questions, post them here.

[posterboy]

Okay I'm going to make the solution tonight and start tomorrow. I'll update as i go.

 

What are the options if it gets worse or has no effect?

 

Appreciate all the help guys.

[scallywag]

You need to give the reinstatement 7-10 days. It takes 4 days or so for the medication to reach a steady state in your body (serum concentration) and then a few more days for your CNS (central nervous system) to "get the message" and start making adjustments.

 

It's hard to tell what we'll suggest if there's little to no improvement. It depends on your symptoms.

 

Take your dose at the same time every day.  Keep track of the times of your doses and of your symptoms on paper.

[posterboy]

You need to give the reinstatement 7-10 days. It takes 4 days or so for the medication to reach a steady state in your body (serum concentration) and then a few more days for your CNS (central nervous system) to "get the message" and start making adjustments.

 

It's hard to tell what we'll suggest if there's little to no improvement. It depends on your symptoms.

 

Take your dose at the same time every day.  Keep track of the times of your doses and of your symptoms on paper.

 

Thank you.

[ChessieCat]

Hoping it works for you.  Good luck.

[posterboy]

Okay. Now on my fifth day of taking 2MG of citalopram. Short diary following my symptoms

 

Day 1 2nd of September

 

8AM

 

Took 2ml (2mg) of the liquid

 

 

3PM

 

Finished work, not much difference. A couple short waves of normality.

 

7PM

 

Defiently improved since yesterday

 

11PM

 

Bed

 

3rd of September

 

8AM

 

Slept well, not as tired this morning. Took the liquid. No dramatic effects. Clearer head. Not sure if that's down to sleeping pattern or cit.

 

8PM

 

Just back from a date. Was very nervous but glad i done it. Once i settled down it was good fun. Absolutely shattered from todays events. Overthinking the date in my head which is annoying

 

4th of September

 

8AM

 

in work, feel a bit sick. Slight headache but nothing too intense

 

4PM

 

Tired but not bad, no effect as of yet

 

8PM

 

Withdrawels seem to be kept at bay

 

5th of September

 

10:30AM

 

First day off in a week so slept in a little later. Still very tired, not sure if i overslept or it's the drugs. Brain fog has lifted, still slightly zoned out.

 

6PM

 

Slight sore head. Not much sign of any side effects yet and withdrawels are at a stand still which is positive.

 

Which brings me to today!

 

It's been quite a good few days. Ten fold improvement from Monday - Thursday. This could be a window that i was due or the drug. We'll hopefully find this out by how I'm feeling for the next few days.

 

Will keep updating.

 

Thanks guys

[posterboy]

It's been 20 days since I reinstated on citalopram.

 

The good form continued for around a week and then I went into a bit of a weird phase which has gone on and stayed.

 

It's difficult to describe. I wouldn't say I'm depressed or experiencing any harsh effects (the odd headache which is probably irrelevant) but I'm not myself, and not how I was when I first began taking the drug.

 

I feel zoned out during the day and not bothered about anything. Like before, I dont feel like the joy is there but I'm not arsed about it this time. I'd take this over feeling how I was any day of the week so I guess thats a good thing. I know I'm going to have ups and downs and things always seem to better. I'm aware I'm the only one that understands the way I feel and ultimately it's my call at the end of the day but do use have any advice for me?

 

Thanks

 

Luke

[posterboy]

Back again. Still on 2.5mg a day and have been since i last posted. Been doing okay, more good than bad so i guess that's positive. Past few days my anxiety has flared up which is unusually because I've only ever had my demons with depression and rarely anxiety. Stressful situation's such as busy spells in work and social encounters have been making me very panicky. Just going to see how things pan out in the next couple of weeks but I'm determined to keep a log of my symptoms and post them here. It doesn't bother me if anyone replies, it's more for me and my own account.

 

Peace.

[posterboy]

I've been creating my own liquid citalopram soloution for a while now. Quick question, I crush 10mg and dilute it with 10ml of water, I take 2.5ml a day (2.5mg in meds). I keep the liquid in the fridge and this lasts me 4 days. My question is, how quickly does citalopram lose it's potency or strength? towards the third or fourth day the liquid doesn't have the chemical after taste that it does the first 2 days. Does this in anyway effect the drug?

 

thanks

[scallywag]

I've moved your post/question to your introduction topic so that all your information, questions and answers are in one place.

I just scanned quickly the Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram) thread. There is no reference to how long a DIY citalopram solution is good.
 
The best way to tell if this is affecting you is to track your symptoms. If you notice a repeating 4-day pattern, it is likely related to the strength of the solution.

Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:
Take notes of doses and symptoms  
 
 That said, the biggest concern with citalopram is likely not the strength of the solution but the potential for microbial growth, e.g. bacteria, molds. You should be okay keeping it in the refrigerator for 4-5 days.

[andy013]

Hi posterboy, how are you doing now? Are you still taking the 2.5mg?