abster728: Zoloft Taper

[abster728]

Honestly I didn't have any issues going down to 12.5mg only after I dropped to 12.5mg so fast which I now know to NEVER do again. All I had then was horrible brain zaps around the clock for 5 days and then couldn't take it anymore went to hospital where they reinstated me. I was 15 at the time. I wish to god I had known then to just Stabilize myself and then keep going off the med but back then No doctors knew anything about withdrawal at all. So they just put me back on the dose I was on prior to the 2 weeks before withdrawal. Since then I had increased with age Doctors said I needed higher dosage with age. Of course more money for them right!!!!! Anyways long story short I'm on 75mg now and trying this again... frustrating to say the least... when my pysch doc tried to put me on abilify and tell me to increase Zoloft to 200mg I ran for the hills (all she wanted was money and to push pills) and then started seeing my regular GP who prescribes my Zoloft. It's just sooooooo frustrating to have lived my whole teen years and young adult life under big pharma's grip!!! Sorry I'm rambling the insomnia is something horrible..

[ChessieCat]

Hi Abster,

 

That's good that you aren't getting any symptoms so far.  When you got down to 12.5 mg last time and got bad symptoms, it was most probably the fast taper catching up and not the fact that you had reached a specific dosage amount.

 

And please be aware that just because something worked, or seemed to work, last time, doesn't mean to say that it would work again.  Many different things come into play, including diet, internal and external stresses, our general health etc.

[abster728]

I know it's going to be a hard road ahead but I am ready to travel it! last night the insomnia was insane like stayed up till 6am and today I have Brainfog and tension headache.. but nothing I can't handle at the moment so I will continue at this 75 mg unless it gets unbearable. I honestly need to get on a good schedule start excercising and eat healthy but it's just hard to do with no motivation! Anyways hope you all are feeling okay today... I'm going to go take a nap and maybe I'll feel like a million bucks when I wake up!

[abster728]

Alright woke up feeling way worse than when I went to sleep.. I feel "off" meaning I feel like my head is full of pressure and super dizzy and sweating. Guess it was too good to be true and I feel like I have been hit head on by a Mack truck the fatigue is something awful. And the pressure feeling in my ears... soooo question should I go back up a little say to 87.5 I mean the feeling isn't constant but it is bothersome. Just cut to 75 mg from 100mg about 6 days ago. I only have 100 mg tablets at the moment.

Man I forgot how crappy this feels!

[nick1990]

Sorry to hear Abster.

 

I wont suggest what EXACTLY to do - i will leave that to a mod. Don't do anything drastic.

 

Mods please!

 

Nick

[ChessieCat]

Hi Abster,

 

(Replying just as Nick posted!!!)
 

From the Tips for tapering of Zoloft (link in one of the above posts):

 

Make your own liquid
Many people make their own Zoloft liquid out of tablets and water. See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

PLEASE WAIT - I'll ask the other mods what dose they think.

[abster728]

It comes in waves for the most part I am okay. I would prefer to stick with tablets as long as I can. I can go to the doctor and get diff milligram's no problem. Thing is I don't have insurance at the time and I just bought 3 months of the 100mg. When I go back next time I think I will have him write me out diff milligram scripts but for the time being I am going to stick with the 75mg unless I'm told otherwise or unless it gets unbearable I'm thinking if I go back up to the 87.5 it's do able with a pill splitter and I can stay on that dose for about 2 months and stabilize... thoughts?

[ChessieCat]

Because accuracy is important, I was thinking you could take the additional part in liquid, not the entire amount.  It would also mean that you could try updosing a smaller amount.

[abster728]

So even after reading how to make the liquid I'm still confused. I could take the 50mg by tablet form but how would I make the other in liquid form. I'm not to good with math :/

[abster728]

Is there anything to help combat the brainfog and full feeling in the head? I took a Tylenol and it seems to help for about 2 hours then it comes creeping back!???? I know Everyone is different. I can deal with the everything but the waterlogged feeling it's terrible!! The brain zaps happen few and far between for now... any recommendations would be awesome!

[ChessieCat]

Updosing.

 

My personal story about updosing:  I tried dropping from 100 mg to 50 mg of Pristiq.  After about 2.5 weeks I was suffering severe brain fog and that's when I started Googling antidepressant withdrawal instead of antidepressant side effects and discovered SA.

 

I'm am extremely thankful that I found SA when I did.  By about 3 weeks at 50 mg I couldn't type, and I am a professional typist.  It was suggested that I updose so I did and within 4 hours I was able to type again and the brain fog started to clear.  I had something that was measurable to go by (it wasn't wishful thinking or placebo) so I knew for sure that it was the drug.

 

With my first 3 drops I experienced ear pressure.  The first 2 times it was painful and unbearable so I updosed  (I have compounded capsules so I updosed 2.5 mg which is the smallest capsule I had) and that relieved it enough.  On the 3rd occasion it wasn't unbearable so I didn't updose and it did settle.

[abster728]

Woke up this morning and I feel okay again. It's coming in waves.. this is so confusing...

[JanCarol]

Hey Abster - sorry you've been struggling.

 

Healing comes in Waves and Windows - you see the light of day, you think you're going to make it, then WHAM!  New symptoms.  Different symptoms.  Stronger symptoms, Unusual, bizarre symptoms.  Or - the same symptoms with a twist.  

 

It's a way of restabilising your brain.

 

Please read the links that Chessie gave you, it will help you understand what is going on.

 

Honestly I didn't have any issues going down to 12.5mg only after I dropped to 12.5mg so fast which I now know to NEVER do again. 

 

Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Seriously, the symptoms often don't even start until 3, 6, 12 months out - or until you have a stressor to trigger them.

 

Don't get fooled or complacent  by "feeling fine" today.  You know the risks and consequences if it doesn't go well.  Please go slow, stay slow, wait and hold, make sure that hungry zoloft wolf isn't stalking you from behind. 

 

Listen to symptoms, as though you were in the woods listening for that predator.  That's what Zoloft is - a brain predator.  The snap of a twig, take it easy, walk gently, keep your life quiet.  And hold.  Freezing in place is the best way to trick a predator.

 

Additionally, don't be fooled by "I was okay going down to " or whatever.  You are back here again, so it needs to go slower this time.  

 

 I would prefer to stick with tablets as long as I can. I can go to the doctor and get diff milligram's no problem. Thing is I don't have insurance at the time and I just bought 3 months of the 100mg. When I go back next time I think I will have him write me out diff milligram scripts but for the time being I am going to stick with the 75mg unless I'm told otherwise or unless it gets unbearable I'm thinking if I go back up to the 87.5 it's do able with a pill splitter and I can stay on that dose for about 2 months and stabilize... thoughts? 

 

Liquid is the only way not to waste those 100 mg tablets, and be precise.  You can "eyeball" an 87.5, and I was going to suggest you do that to start, but as you are remembering, a tiny drop can make a big difference.  Precision and consistent dosing will be important for keeping you stable.

 

I will mention that some people have achieved pretty consistent dry dosing with a nail file.  First taper, 5 shaves of a nail file, second taper 5 shaves, gradually working down to smaller and smaller shaves to approximate 10% of former dose.  Other suggestions for dry tapers are here (but really - I did dry cutting, and now that I have a scale and all the stuff - I'm envious of the liquid people, it's so much easier to be precise!)  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2021-how-to-cut-up-tablets-or-pills-using-a-pill-cutter/

 

If you are stable for 2 months on 87.5, that gives you time to learn about liquids, or get another smaller script, and work on Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms.  Then WAIT another month, just to be sure that wolf isn't on the horizon, before commencing a 10% taper.

 

Psych Central 6 Ways to Prepare for Antidepressant Withdrawal

Preparing to Taper

 

So how are you feeling today, still on 75?

 

Welcome back to SA - I'm sorry you had to come - but it's a great opportunity to get your future back.  Be patient with yourself - once your dose gets down, you start to feel better, and you don't feel the drug so heavily, the brain clears, the symptoms pass.  They do.  It gets better.  But it does take time, patience, and care.

[abster728]

Thank You so much for the response!! I don't know why I'm just now seeing it... I agree 100% with that you said. Should I go back up to 87.5mg or should I stay at 75mg. You are so knowledgeable! I appreciate all the input more than you know!!!

[abster728]

Today I feel ok so far... it comes on randomly! I'm sure I'll hit a wall later today and feel like I can't do this anymore etc... I need to get off of this medication, I have been drugged almost my whole life and just going through the motions. I know slow and steady wins the race. If it takes 4 years then it takes 4 years!!!

[abster728]

I guess I should add in August to November of 2011 I came off 5 mg of Valium after 15 years. I had very few withdrawal effects. So if I can just get off this demon I'm on now

[wareagle82]

Just my two cents, but a first drop of 25mg may work out okay.  It did for me. I am not a moderator or an expert, but I think I would stand pat at 75 for a few weeks more to see how it goes. 

If your symptoms settle down, you're probably going to be just fine at 75mg.  If they get unbearable then an updose might help.  Main thing is to make infrequent changes and stay with them for a long interval.

 

Good luck!!  You will do fine!  Listen to your body!

[abster728]

Thanks I'm ok right now... just brain fog... I'm think I just have a fear of going crazy and not being able to stabilize:(

[JanCarol]

There is a doctor - Kelly Brogan - who is a blogger on Mad In America.  She drops her patients by 25% to start, to see what kind of a reaction they get.

 

But here's the thing:  she is a Doctor while we are disembodied voices on the internet.  She has a clinic and likely access to inpatient and partial patient programs where people can get help, and all we can do is send you to your local hospital and doctors where you get to pick a duck - er - doctor - from the duck pond.  Or call a local helpline, and the chances of "withdrawal" being understood there is slim.

 

Here you are on your own.  Safe is much better than sorry.

 

Should I go back up to 87.5mg or should I stay at 75mg. 

 

If your symptoms are tolerable, holding is better than changing.  However, pay attention, because symptoms are sneaky, and that niggling "didn't sleep well last night" can turn into full blown "I haven't slept for 10 days" insomnia.  Usually by then, updosing is less helpful.

 

So listen to your body, pay attention to symptoms, keep a log of what time of day you have them, or what stressors may have precipitated them.  You can learn from your own log as much as you can from anyone here.

 

So tell us a little bit about your support team:  you have a doctor?  Is he pro your tapering?  Against?  Would he help with prescribing?  You are lucky, Zoloft comes in a liquid, so you can use that to "top up" the precise amount of your dose, if you can get a script for that.  

 

Are you living alone?  Do you have friends or mates that you can hang with and be easy with when you are feeling "not yourself?"  Do you have social groups like a softball team or church or model railroad club where you can just hang and be around people and feel just a bit normal?  Can you shop and cook and all of that "survival" stuff?

[abster728]

I'm going to have to go up to 87.5 I can't focus my eyes feel like they are sloshing around and I start a new job Monday just found out. Not to mention the brain fog.... I feel like a hopeless case... I can't even get through the first week

[abster728]

I just went to Walmart and I feel that awful anxiety fear and everything in between... I can still do everything it's just this darn brain fog and dizziness if I turn my head to fast.... when I get home I'm going to take a sliver to equal 87.5 for today's total dose.

[abster728]

I just went back up to 100mg and I will stay here for a little longer until I can get the proper liquid and have the actual time to not have a job and devote all my time to this.. I guess it was wishfl thinking. Ive been a pharmacy tech for 9 years and I finally got out of retail into a behavioral health pharmacy and I sure as heck don't want to mess up this opportunity to have a full time job m-f 8-5. I hope you all understand.

[abster728]

I'm in tears once again at the thought of letting this beat me.. but the feelings are practically unbearable.

[abster728]

once i have liquid and can make my doses perfect will try again. I am afraid I wasn't getting the same doses everyday. I think I jumped the gun to soon and realized I went to fast unfortunately because I have been on this for 18 years. I can't take the risk of not being able to function at this new job.. maybe once I have stabilized again and i can go down VERY slowly. So I have reinstated back to full dosage at 100mg. I figured I might as well do it now before I get to far weaned off and get myself into more issues. I still want to stay in contact with you all on this forum and talk to others in withdrawal and be of encouragement. For now I must do what is needed for me to function normally. I definitely don't want to become a patient in the facility I will be working at. So I hope yo all understand! maybe oneway I will be off this "LEGAL" drug. THEY NEED TO BE ILLEGAL!

[Altostrata]

Hello, abster.

 

I merged ahbay03 with this account.

 

Please let your nervous system stabilize on 100mg for a while -- probably months -- then think in terms of 10% decreases.

 

You could take 50mg as a tablet and the rest in liquid form.

[abster728]

This is just terrible!!! I feel like I have failed I'm beginning to think I will never be able to get off this crap!!!! ????????????????

[Altostrata]

You didn't fail, you went too fast. You can still do this, but you'll have to be patient.

[abster728]

Hopefully by January I can start again and I'll be in a better position to come off slowly.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Abster,

 

As Alto said, you did not fail.  It's understandable that you feel disappointed.  I also want to get off my AD ASAP but I have learned from this site that slow and steady is the best way to do that.

 

It's good that you have updosed now, being a few days before you start your new job (congratulations!!!) so hopefully by Monday you will be starting to feel much better than you do now.

 

This has nothing to do with how strong you are as a person.  Remember that the drug has changed your brain physiologically and when you took away 25% your brain reacted to that.  I'm trying to think of a comparison to make and can only think of providing a set meal portion to someone regularly over a period of time and then one day only serving up 3/4 of it.  That person will (in most instances) react to not getting their full portion.  Probably not a perfect comparison but the best I can do so early in the morning here in Australia.

 

Now you need to accept it and not stress over updosing.  It is what it is.  I believe that worrying about it only causes stress so that the brain ends up having to divert its attention to dealing with the stress and takes its focus off doing what it needs to to stabilise.

1. Acceptance
2. Acceptance and Mindfulness
3. Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System
4. "Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms
5. Change cognitive framing - Redirect - Another Way
6. Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression
7. Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons

If you haven't already read/watched them I suggest you do, and if you have, do so again, and I've added a 3rd one:

1. Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)
2. Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery
3. What is Happening in Your Brain

Please keep notes on paper and also post your progress here in your topic so we know how you are getting on.  Also, good luck with the job.

[abster728]

Thank You!! This is such a wonderful group of people!!

[ChessieCat]

You're welcome Abster, and I agree wholeheartedly.  I can still remember how thankful I was when I first became a member.  And of course I still am!  I've just posted on a new member's topic and made the comment about how valuable this site is in response to "but I have no one who can help me manage the medications."

 

Remember slow and steady.  It's not a race.  At the beginning of this journey I felt an urgency, and I think most of us do, but once I stabilised and then settled into my tapering it has faded into the background.

 

Once you are feeling a bit more settled after updosing it might be a good idea to check out these from the Symptoms & Self Care thread:

 

Neuro Emotions

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

[abster728]

And here I am 4 hours later feeling back to some what normal... Man what a grip these drugs have on one mentally.

[ChessieCat]

That's really good news!!!  Thanks for letting us know.

[JanCarol]

Not sure where to put this post but I heard song on the radio today by Katy Perry it was called RISE if you get a chance take a listen to it. 

 

Hey Abster, we post music videos and lyrics here - you might even find the Katy Perry there, it seems I remember learning about it there:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7839-music-what-music-helps-you-put-it-here/

[JanCarol]

 I need to get off of this medication, I have been drugged almost my whole life and just going through the motions. 

 

Abster, you were drugged so young, that you need to look at growing up.  The drugs took "normal development into adulthood" away from you.

 

Your adolescence was drugged, your young adulthood was drugged, numbed.  You probably were a normal kid, who was moody or boisterous or had trouble fitting in, and drugs were given to you for these normal things.

 

I was lucky - I was that moody misfit but it was in the 60's & 70's, long before they drugged children for being children.

 

But here's the thing, the zoloft would have stunted your normal brain, nervous and emotional development.  Do you have a therapist?  Group support of some sort?  Sing in a choir?  A church?  Someplace you can go and learn normal lessons about "how to grow up when you are already an adult?"

 

In order to remove a drug, you must replace it with something else.  

 

I have lots of practices because I have the attention span of a flea.  I like to color.  I take short walks.  Epsom Salt baths.  I go to yoga and karate.  Recently I learned a Tai Chi for Diabetes form (I don't have diabetes but I'm surely afraid of it!), sometimes I play the ukulele.  I write letters.  I post here.

 

I agree with Alto and Chessie, it's not a failure, it's only a mistake.  We need mistakes in order to correct ourselves.  Learn from your mistake, and you are taking a very wise path.

 

Do you work?  What kind of work do you do?  Do you live with your family?  On your own?  How functional are you? (I cannot work, haven't worked for nearly 15 years now, because the freelance work I did in the USA is not available here in Australia.)  Can you cook your meals?  Do your own chores?  Do you drive?  How independent are you?

 

Practices - like mindfulness meditation or gentle exercise or hobbies - will help serve you when the withdrawal strikes.  

 

Getting your ducks in a row before you taper is a thing you can do while you are waiting to stabilise, and it will give you strength for the road ahead.

 

You can do this.  People do it every day.  People in here are doing it now.  Slowly, carefully, sneaking away from the system of drugging our emotions.  And it gets better, when you do it slowly and carefully, every step of the way because you choose how fast to go, how much symptoms you can tolerate, and you can continue to live your life during a slow taper.

 

Any faster, and you run the risk of being thrown into emergency again.  And you know what the doctors do then.  Spend this time, learning about the links Chessie gave you above - the Claire Weekes, the mindfulness, how to deal with emotions and anxiety - these feelings will all be new to you, as you come out from under the drug fog.  It does get better, and you can do this.

 

I'm glad to hear that your updose to 100 has helped you immensely.  You are already ahead of "the game!"

[abster728]

I am a pharmacy tech. I start a temp job tomorrow that's why I decided to updose. I am pretty independent. I live with my boyfriend and our 2 dogs. I drive. I am capable of doing my own chores but I have absolutely no motivation what so ever so they are few and far between which I am highly ashamed of. I'm still able to live my life and do normal things. Hopefully once I start a correct taper things will level out and become normal again. It will be a little before I start that again. Anyways thanks for all the encouragement and kind words!! I greatly appreciate them all!