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ConfusedDad: Advise Needed


ConfusedDad

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ConfusedDad

Please see my signature.

 

My son has missed most of grade 9 due to extreme anxiety and ADHD.

 

He is also getting cognitive behavioral therapy as he feels uncomfortable now even in public setting with the sense that people are out to hurt him at any time.

 

Our goal is to lessen his anxiety to get him back to school.

 

SSRI's haven't helped nor have stimulants for ADHD.

 

Dr. now wants to try "short-term" up to three months of clonazepam to treat his anxiety to allow him to function and attend school and then to very slowly taper him off. The other thought is that this would allow him to taper off zoloft and try another SSRI (but I don't understand how colazepam would treat his withdrawal symptoms of depression and I've come to the conclusion that SSRIs probably are not the solution for him). However, one option is to stay on the 50 mg of zoloft and hope that the clonazepam will get him over the hump of getting back to school.

 

Due to the addictive properties of benzodiazepines, I am very reluctant but at the same time am running out of ideas and seem stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

Any helpful advise would be extremely appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Edited by scallywag
tags added

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

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Hello, I am not a moderator but I just read your thread and wanted to tell you my opinion. I would not take benzodiazepines. After 6 weeks on benzodiazepins your son would be addicted and the withdrawal maybe 100 times worse than the problems you are trying to solve. And on benzos he can not be the whole life. Once he would have to go off. And the doctor wants to have him on Clonazepam only for 3 months, it is not really any long term help. If it were me I would try all non-drug possibilities to get a grip on anxiety, speak with him a lot and try to motivate him to go to school, maybe also change the school if the surroundings there is for him not motivating.

05/2013 Lyrica 100 mg / per day for pain + PGAD resulting from caesarian delivery11/2014 started to taper: 50 mg per day/ for one week then c/tafter one month reinstated at 50 mg /per days of 10 July 2015 drug free-

symptoms OCD

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  • Moderator Emeritus

ConfusedDad -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

I'm sorry that your son is having to deal with the suffering of anxiety and psych medications. It's got to be difficult for you as his dad.

 

It sounds as if the doc is recommending the clonazepam to deal with the anxiety.  It likely won't do much to help any symptoms considered "depression."  Your caution to proceed with a benzo is wise.

 

We have other young people posting here in a thread with their parents. It's often best if we can read his experience in his words.

 

Some questions for you:

  1. Would your son be willing to create a login for himself and post in this topic, along with you?
     
  2. The 100 mg of Zoloft did nothing for his anxiety correct?
     
  3. How was his dose tapered from 100 mg to 50mg, e.g. what were the interim doses & how long did he take them? (approximations are fine)
     
  4. How is the CBT going from his perspective?  From yours?
     
  5. What are the symptoms that he/you/doctor call depression?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Thanks to both of you. Not surprised by your comments. They basically confirm my own thoughts which is helpful.

 

scallywag:

 

1. Not sure. I'll discuss it with him.

 

2. It actually made his anxiety noticeably worse due to extremely vivid nightmares and had zero benefit (same as prozac which he was able to taper quickly and successfully over a few weeks without too much trouble).

 

3. 25 mg drops two weeks apart for a total of four weeks. Too fast I now know. Each time he had 2-3 down days before feeling ok again. But dropping below 50 mg (25 mg alternate days - which I know now is not recommended), he could not tolerate. I want to start a 10% taper as recommended here but his anxiety is still too high to consider further drops at this time especially with the new school year on the horizon.

 

4. The CBT while slow, is going well - just not linear (i.e., two steps forward, one step back). My guess is that he will need a year for it to hopefully help him get to where he needs to be based on current progress. But that's not the end of the world IMO. He feels it is very helpful as well.

 

5. To be clear, he never had any signs of depression prior to SSRI use. I see it as a withdrawal symptom. He will curl up in a ball for hours, be listless and be very sad and does not understand why. He missed one dose of his 50 mg and later in the same day, he had these symptoms. We didn't know what was going on until we discovered he had missed his dose. He took his dose late that night. He was much improved the next day. 

 

His nightmares have mostly gone away but his sleep patterns are poor. Insomnia until 2-3 am and then sleeps in until noon. The psychologist is trying to break that pattern with some success.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Just to clarify: he experienced depressive symptoms after skipping a dose. What symptoms does he have when he's taken the Zoloft consistently?

 

 

Like many in early adolescence, it sounds as if his sleep pattern has shifted. Unfortunately school schedules make it difficult.

Melatonin can be very helpful for moving sleep onset earlier.

 

Our topic on Melatonin for sleep

 

Here's a video from a pediatric sleep specialist (included in the article) about when to take melatonin:

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

ConfusedDad,

 

As someone who bought into the psychiatric model and willingly took medication after medication to deal with the side effects of other meds, I would plead with you to not fall into the same trap.  Benzo's are an evil all their own and will only exacerbate your son's anxiety in the long run, even at small doses.  If you need any sort of evidence, go to youtube and search "Benzo Withdrawal."  

Year 0:      Social anxiety, obsessive thoughts, NO depression, NO suicidal ideations

Years 1-2: Ativan (benzo) <1mg as needed, not abused but developed physical dependence

Years 2-3: Paxil (20mg) augmented with Adderall XR (10-20mg) due to withdrawal from Ativan

Years 3-Present: Severe depression, headaches, psychiatric hospitalization, lost job, etc.

 

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Hi Confused Dad,

 

My signature could just as easily be Confused Mom. My heart goes out to you for what you and your son are experiencing; I'm so sorry his challenges were made even more difficult by the administration of medications, and yes, I would agree that benzos only have the potential to make things more difficult.

 

I don't have anywhere near the expertise of other people on this board, but my son's long journey has taught me a few things. I don't know if you've ever looked into special diets, but if you (and he) are open to it, it might be worth trying either the GAPS or SCD diet. My son was originally medicated AT AGE 6 for severe OCD, which is an anxiety disorder. He was totally disabled by the OCD. I won't detail the story, but now at age 21 he is completely off meds and exhibits no signs of OCD. He still has some residual anxiety, mostly related to sensory processing disorder and withdrawal, and waves of depression (also withdrawal), but is no longer disabled by it.

 

We started him 3 years ago on a gluten-free/casein free diet, and that helped tremendously (began to sleep through the night for the first time in his life, much calmer, tics vanished). But he continued to have panic attacks until he went on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet one year ago. Now he has gone from 2-3 panic attacks/week to maybe 8 in the last year. It didn't take long for the diet to make changes...I would say that within 10 days we saw marked improvement.

 

We are now working with a Functional Medicine doctor who has identified that he is super low on beneficial bacteria and pancreatic enzymes, so we're supplementing with those (in addition to Vit D and fish oil), and are hoping to re-introduce some of his favorite foods (like brown rice!) in 6 months.

 

Diet might not be the thing for your son at all, but I just wanted to share our experience about how helpful it was for us. I wish you and your family all the best as you navigate this journey.

 

Siskin

Siskin

 

Raven's med history:

2001-2006 Paxil 40g

5/06 - 7/06 off meds

7/06 - 10/13 Prozac

4/12 - 11/12 Abilify

11/12 - 12/12 Risperdal

12/12 - 3/13 Geodon

7/13 - 10/13 tapered off Prozac

10/13 - present: med free

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  • Administrator

Hi, ConfusedDad.

 

It looks like you've already received some really great information, and I'd like to add a few more links for you and your son.

 

You mentioned that the 10% reduction rate may be too much, but have you read about doing a micro-taper? This is a gentler approach. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

It sounds like you've already been researching this, so you may have already seen this thread, but just in case: 

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Here's a couple of helpful links to understand withdrawal:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

This is a good explanation in the form of a video:

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery

 

These links may help your son with his current withdrawal symptoms, as well as arm him with skills that will compliment his current CBT therapy: 

 

Neuro Emotions

 
 
 
Many people also find mindfulness to help during this process, as it's very calming to the CNS. This website is especially designed for teens:
 
 
 
I went on these drugs when I was only 17 and took many drugs for a mis-diagnosis of bipolar disorder. After 30 years, I was finally able to taper off the final drug cocktail. So while your son is very ill right now, his chances for a full recovery are great. It's much better to come off now then in the years to come.  I'm so glad you're doing this research and finding out the dangers of these drugs. CBT sounds like a much better game plan.  
 
A book that is highly recommended on this site is Robert Whitaker's "Anatomy of an Epidemic", which explores these drugs and gives the real outcome data - people who take these drugs have a much worse outcome.
 
 
 
 
He also has a great website with many scientific articles and blogs by researchers studying this outside of the pharmaceutical industry:
 
 
And this is a video by Whitaker that explores ADHD that you and your son may want to see:
 
 
Sending healing vibes to you and your son. 
 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Rockingchaircat

Having been through Benzodiazepine Withdrawal myself, after foolishly going cold turkey off of an antidepressant- 

 

Stay away from them.  

Getting off of them was my first taste of HELL. 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php

 

I can understand your son's fears in school-  I learned other ways of dealing with them.

 

Pills are NOT an answer.  They are like loan sharks. Eventually you're gonna pay BIG TIME. 

1)Zoloft- 6/99 to 8/04 2)Escitalopram- 8/04 to 8/10 3)Citalopram 8/10 to 4/14 (C/T), 4)Paxil a week or so, 5)Wellbutrin a week or so, 6)Reinstated Citalopram- 9/14 to 7/15

Before Taper- Celexa/20 mg....Taper Start- 04/21/15- 15mg....05/26/15- 10 mg...06/22/15- 5 mg...07/18/15- 0mg. http://tinyurl.com/qjfoqe9 Ativan/Lorazepam use/taper 10/14 to 2/15- http://tinyurl.com/ljebp84

Baclofen- Intermittent use of from 2008 till 2014. Some use of Promethazine. Some use of Zofran. Clobetasol Propionate- for Lichen Planus. Some Flexeril use. 

Ativan- GABA,A receptor Agonist., Baclofen- GABA,B receptor Agonist., Celexa/Lexapro- Serotonin 5-HT1A Receptor Agonist., Zofran- Serotonin 5-HT3 Receptor Agonist..Promethazine- Histamine H1-Receptor Antagonist. Flexeril- Serotonin 5HT2a Antagonist.

 

My self imposed Amino Acid Therapy: Tyrosine 500mg 1xday, Theanine 200 mg 1xday, & Taurine 500 mg 2x day. (All neurotransitter pre-cursors)- seems to have helped me immensely. And of course- eating healthy, including Black Beans for the oligosaccharides for gut health.

 

The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind of trick learned while mastering the Art of Living. - Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

 

 

 

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  • Moderator

Hey Dad,

 

I think it is vitally important for you to recognise the phenomenon of ADHD drugs causing anxiety and depression.  And the Black Box warning on all antidepressants:  

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11894-legal-journal-says-antidepressants-can-cause-violence-and-suicide

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12251-garland-2016-update-on-the-use-of-ssris-and-snris-with-children-and-adolescents-in-clinical-practice/

 

I'm not the best researcher in the house, but there are a high percentage of young "bipolar" patients who got diagnosed when they "flipped" from their ADHD drugs, and then the antidepressants drove them deeper into despair.  Young people are especially sensitive to these drugs, as their brains are still forming, along with their bodies, social identity, and self esteem.

 

The wise path, would be to find a stable dose on all of his drugs, and then gradually and carefully taper down.  No new drugs are indicated.

 

However he tapered before, if he was having symptoms, it was too fast (it sounds like it was the standard Doctor advice of "cut in half for 2 weeks, then quit").  If he can stabilise on 50 mg of Zoloft, and hold there, and be ready for school - then you can start his first taper of only 10% (or less, as Shep suggested) around school holidays - to give him a few days to adjust before going back to the grind.

 

It may be important too, for him to have outside support which is not you, his parents.  Someplace, someone safe where he can go and talk about all the "weird feelings" of his changing body and mind and social structures, and get affirmation / confirmation that he is just a human boy, and feelings are a normal part of the human experience, even if they are intense.  Sometimes this can be at church (youth groups - I have happy memories of our youth group leaders, because they were so different to my parents and to the preacher, too), or maybe there is a therapist / social worker who can give him a good, non-judgemental ear.

 

If this continues, the diagnosis pattern goes like this:

 

ADHD: Anxiety: Depression: Bipolar: Schizophrenia (by age 22).  Of course, not every ADHD kid finishes this way.  It's a very common pattern, even though I don't believe in any of these diagnoses - they are just drugging categories to me.  There are ways to deal with these things, without going into full blown psychosis.  Unfortunately, all of the drugs make it harder to do this on your own, as they are numbing, blunting, lower impulse control, and stimulating at the same time.  But this decay of diagnosis (called a "drug cascade")  is altogether too common since the advent of these "new drugs," and the policy of drugging "overactive" children instead of finding new ways to teach them.

 

If you want to look at it from a drug centered perspective, that would be:  Ritalin: "Antidepressant": Benzo: Mood Stabiliser: "Antipsychotic."  That is the drug cascade your son is headed for, if the powers-that-be have their way.  And, as he thrashes around in chemical agony, they might double some of those - 2 mood stabilisers, or 2 "antidepressants," or even 2 "Antipsychotics!" - I've seen people on cocktails of 5-9 drugs.  Then it gets really hard to untangle the mess.

 

Shep has given you some awesome links to look at - because he will need skills (I call it a "toolkit") if he wants to free himself from the drugs.

 

I don't mean to be frightening - we have had people here in SA walk away from "cocktails" of 5-9 drugs!  But wouldn't it be so much better to prevent the cascade in the first place?

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Administrator

Hello, ConfusedDad.

 

Can you tell us more about your son's taking Prozac and Concerta, and how he went off them?

 

Did he start Zoloft right after going off Prozac? Is that when his "depression" started?

 

How exactly does he feel "depression"? You can see him curling into a ball, but how does he feel it? Is it better at any time of the day?

 

What time does he take Zoloft? What is his sleep pattern now?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wow. I've been travelling/busy and haven't been here in a while but thanks for all of the help.

 

We've already steered away from the lorazepam approach but what I've read here only confirms that it is the right decision (which I had been second-guessing to some degree).

 

He certainly does have a lot of the symptoms of Sensory Deprivation Disorder from a very young age (prior to anxiety) which is very interesting.

 

Shep, thank you for all of the information. Yes I have seen much of it but not all and I will have a look.

 

Scalywag asked "What symptoms does he have when he's taken the Zoloft consistently?"

 

When he was on 100 mg consistently (well for four weeks anyways) he had extreme nightmares which terrified him and put him in our bedroom for a few weeks until we dropped his dose.

 

He's now on 50 mg for about six months (after a mid taper of 75 mg and temporary drop to 25 mg/50 mg on alternate days which I know now was too fast). He was ok at first at 50 mg but after a few months developed sleep problems. He goes to bed at 1-3 am and gets up 11-12 because he cannot sleep before then. He also now has the odd panic attack in noisy, crowded areas because he thinks people might hurt him and gets over anxious in some social settings. Late at night, he generally gets anxious if he has nothing to distract him.

 

Sisken provided very interesting information on diet.

 

Thank you for that. I will look into that. We have tried him on a gluten free diet as suggested by his OT but it didn't have any noticeable benefit. 

 

Altostrata asked:

 

Can you tell us more about your son's taking Prozac and Concerta, and how he went off them?

 

Yeah, it's a bit fuzzy, but he worked up to maybe the 2nd or 3rd level of Prozac (and eventually added Concerta). Prozac only caused extreme nightmares and increased his anxiety. He came off the prozac probably too quickly but eventually seemed to be fine.

 

The Concerta only caused him to lose his appetite and weight. Because of his anxiety, the Concerta didn't really help with his anxiety and we eventually reduced his dose to zero.

 

Did he start Zoloft right after going off Prozac? Is that when his "depression" started?

 

He started Zoloft about two months after coming off prozac. His depression happened much later when trying to taper off zoloft. He only has shown signs of depression:

1. For a few days temporarily when he dropped to 75 mg zoloft (from 100 mg) and when he dropped to 50 mg.

2. When we tried to drop below 50 mg, after a few days he became depressed but it didn't go away until we returned him to 50 mg.

3. Anytime he forgets to take his 50 mg, like clockwork, he gets anxious and depressed later that day.

 

How exactly does he feel "depression"? You can see him curling into a ball, but how does he feel it? Is it better at any time of the day?

 

He becomes very sad but doesn't understand why. It is usually worse at night.

 

What time does he take Zoloft? What is his sleep pattern now?

 

He takes it when he gets up which can be as late as noon. Once he falls asleep, he's fine and the nightmares have virtually gone away. However, he doesn't get tired until well after midnight. He is almost impossible to awaken in the morning.

 

Again thanks to all who have commented above.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

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Updated signature with my son's detailed medication history.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Good to see you again, CDad. Thanks for answering the long list of our questions! 

 

Along the diet branch of this, the spikes from sugar and caffeine consumption can aggravate or may even precipitate anxiety. Difficult  to eliminate sugar but some have found it worth the effort.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

That's very interesting scallywag.

 

He has a MASSIVE sugar tooth.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

Link to post
LoveandLight

I cannot emphasise enough the horrors of benzodiazepines :( please avoid..

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

Link to post
LoveandLight

So glad you found your way here though..the drugs are a terrible trap but really this is the best place to get advice..I still trusted my psychiatrist instead of this site and sorely regret..

 

It's great that you realise it's the drugs..I went on at 17 and declined all the way to 33 with drug reactions and withdrawals..so it's really great that you are finding out now and your son can be free of them and deal with things naturally..

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hello ConfusedDad,

 

I've nothing more to add, but my heart just really went out to you and your son.  I wanted to say good on you for going the extra mile in helping your boy, and giving him such thoughtful care.  It's heartwarming, in the light of how many kids are just given pills. 

 

Keep going - you'll find your path through all of this,

Karen

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

Link to post

Thank you for your kind words.

 

Yeah it's been extremely tough for all of us (as most of you know from your own experiences I am sure).

 

He's the kindest kid and so creative but the anxiety has been shutting him down.

 

I was absolutely shocked when his pediatrician (after talking to a very trusted psychiatrist) suggested 90 days of clonazepam to reestablish him on a higher dose of zoloft or another SSRI but I had given serious consideration to trying the benzo route. But thanks to further reading and all of everyone's wisdom here, I'v'e stopped second guessing myself and decided that this would not be the right decision.

 

I'm trying to convince him to take small doses of melatonin (0.5 mg) for just a few days to help reset his sleep, but other than the odd advil, he's pretty pill phobic because of what he's been through and I don't blame him. With recent discussions, I think he's beginning to understand the difference between supplements and the SSRIs we are trying to get him off so I hope he will reconsider soon.

 

With school coming up, plus his continuing anxiety and sleep problems, I don't feel that he is ready to continue his taper yet. I can't wait until he eventually gets off zoloft and I have concern that it is doing further damage the longer he stays on it but we just need to take it slow and be patient. As his Dad, I feel horrible for trusting his doctor and allowing him to be put on this drug, especially considering he struggled with Prozac and successfully got off it. And now he is stuck on another SSRI.

 

He has a great psychologist (finally) and we need to give it time, even at the risk of him likely not being able to return to school in two weeks which will be upsetting to him (and us).

 

Any other supplements you would suggest (and how to they work/help)?

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

Link to post

Also, generally, does the late night insomnia eventually go away? It started about two months ago and I put it down to his zoloft taper to 50 mg in April.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

Link to post

If it is withdrawal, it will go away, but it can be also side effect of drugs. I tried Zoloft in the past only for two days, but I remember it made me restless, I could not sit still, irritated and had two much energy in my body. So I can imagine that it can make people also not to be able to fall asleep. Both scenarios are possible.

05/2013 Lyrica 100 mg / per day for pain + PGAD resulting from caesarian delivery11/2014 started to taper: 50 mg per day/ for one week then c/tafter one month reinstated at 50 mg /per days of 10 July 2015 drug free-

symptoms OCD

Link to post

But you are most probably right. If it started after tapering, it will be most probably withdrawal.

05/2013 Lyrica 100 mg / per day for pain + PGAD resulting from caesarian delivery11/2014 started to taper: 50 mg per day/ for one week then c/tafter one month reinstated at 50 mg /per days of 10 July 2015 drug free-

symptoms OCD

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

You might also be interested to read some of Dr Gabor Mate's work, concerning the underlying issues.  He writes about adhd, anxiety, school culture, drug use, addiction, parenting - etc.  He also has interviews on line.  Very helpful for gaining perspective on these big-picture things. 

 

Many people find Fish oil and Magnesium useful during withdrawal.  

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

Link to post
  • Administrator

 

He has a great psychologist (finally) and we need to give it time, even at the risk of him likely not being able to return to school in two weeks which will be upsetting to him (and us).

 

 

 

I'm so happy to read your son has a great psychologist.

 

In the event he can't return to school in two weeks, that will be difficult on everyone in the family. But he's getting an education now that simply isn't offered in school, not even medical school. His journey is different than the majority of people you find on withdrawal boards. Most of us didn't know how dangerous and life altering these drugs are until sometimes decades into a very difficult journey. 

 

He's very lucky to have you as his advocate. 

 

Taking the time now to deal with this is an education that will serve him well into the future. He will have decades of good health and hopefully he'll master the art of non-drug techniques such as mindfulness, learning about nutrition and mental health, etc. This will put him light years ahead of his peers.

 

He'll catch up. In fact, he'll probably surpass most of his peers in the long run. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to post

Thanks Shep.

 

Those are encouraging words.

 

And thanks for the suggestions KarenB.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

Link to post

I've been away from the board for awhile, but just wanted to check in and let you know I've been thinking about you and your son.

 

We originally tried the GF/CF diet when our son was young, before he was ever put on medication, and we didn't see any improvement. I'm not sure why; maybe there was something we missed with an illegal ingredient, or maybe he needed supplements, or maybe he was sneaking.

 

We tried the diet again when working with a holistic psychiatrist before beginning his (way too rapid) taper off Prozac. She actually had us eliminate gluten, casein, corn, sugar, and table salt. The effects this time around were notable within a week or so. Not perfect, but a HUGE improvement for him.Then when we went on the SCD/modified GAPS, his panic attacks plummeted.

 

Now he's started working with a Functional Medicine doctor who ordered comprehensive stool testing which showed that he was extremely low on beneficial bacteria (and a few other things). He told us that having healthy bacteria in the gut is one of the things that enables the gut to create neuro-transmitters. I wish we had started with the testing years ago - I think it helps explain why he had all these troubles to begin with.

 

I'm not telling you this to say that SCD/GAPS will take care of all your son's issues, or to say that you need to run out and get testing done for your son. But what I'm hoping to pass on is that there's some underlying reason why our kids struggle with anxiety, adhd, ocd, etc., and that mainstream doctors aren't going to take the time to help us figure out what those reasons are when it's so easy for them to prescribe medications. It's too hard for most doctors. But I'm learning that it's not too hard for a parent.

 

I'm sending all my support your way, and I believe in you and your ability to find what works best for your son.

Siskin

 

Raven's med history:

2001-2006 Paxil 40g

5/06 - 7/06 off meds

7/06 - 10/13 Prozac

4/12 - 11/12 Abilify

11/12 - 12/12 Risperdal

12/12 - 3/13 Geodon

7/13 - 10/13 tapered off Prozac

10/13 - present: med free

Link to post

Thanks Siskin.

 

We tried gluten free diet for three months with no noticeable difference but I'm curious about looking at the others. We use little corn and virtually no table salt but the sugar and casein is interesting. He has a lot of dairy and sugar in his diet.

 

I've struggled for years with dairy so would not be surprised if it could be an underlying issue for him. He's already drinking lactose free milk for example but of course the casein is still present.

 

On the positive side, he was able to return to school this week so far! But it is just the beginning and we are (very) cautiously optimistic. (It didn't last last year.) Hoping and praying that this year will be different with all of the work we've done but anxiety doesn't always play out with logic.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Sending good thoughts to your son and your family for a successful school year.  Off to a good beginning is good. :)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post
  • Administrator

 

On the positive side, he was able to return to school this week so far! But it is just the beginning and we are (very) cautiously optimistic. (It didn't last last year.) Hoping and praying that this year will be different with all of the work we've done but anxiety doesn't always play out with logic.

 

 

This is good news! 

 

Although anxiety doesn't always play out with logic, there are different ways of viewing our anxiety. Since the same chemicals that create anxiety also create excitement, we can reframe this state of mind. Here's more on that:

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stress-and-sex/201108/beating-the-odds-reframing-anxiety-excitement

 

Withdrawal creates a "chemical" anxiety that you can't really talk yourself out of, such as cortisol spikes that create the physical component of anxiety. However, if your son can tell himself "this is just 'chemical' anxiety" and keep telling himself "I'm okay", hopefully he'll be able to ride the waves and get through the school day. 

 

Eventually, this chemical anxiety will lessen and he'll be able to reframe his anxiety as excitement as he begins to explore what he wants to do in life. This is a powerful way of training the mind. He won't have to spend his life ruled by his anxiety. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to post

Unfortunately it didn't last and he's out of school. He started getting panic attacks approaching the school.

 

Any thoughts here on beta blockers?

 

I'm thinking not the way to go but to stick to therapy for now which is slow. We'll probably have to go back to home schooling.

 

It's heartbreaking because he really wants to go.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Dear Confused,

 

I don't have any answers, but I wanted to say that it is awesome that your son has such a motivated, concerned, caring father--you.

 

1. Someone recommended this book to me--I haven't read it, but it's called Embracing the Fear -- I think it is supposed to be good for panic attacks and anxiety attacks. 

2. This is a really cool mp3 that I listen to sometimes--First Aid for Panic.

 

Edit by ChessieCat:  Here's the working link:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

I'm not saying these will be magical cures, just an idea or two; I am full of compassion for you and your son. I hope for the best for you.

 

I'll be following this thread and hope to hear how it's going.

Edited by ChessieCat

Current: 2019: 0.04 mg Paxil!! This is real. Soon, after taking Paxil my entire adult life, I will be free.

Long story short: After 18 years on Paxil, "tapered" almost completely off over a month, at doctor's advice in July 2015.

Self-care includes magnesium, reasonable exercise, mindfulness, this forum and nutrition/eating enough food.

Also on 100 mg Zoloft unfortunately!! (which I now will have the knowledge to taper properly)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Longer version: On Paxil since 1996--anxiety & depression caused by (undiagnosed) under-eating / eating disorder.

Doctor kept increasing dose, up to 60 mg; it never really helped but said it really was the best "med" for me.

Rapid doctor-led "taper" July 2015, down to 5 mg, with Zoloft as a "cross-taper" = Essentially a cold turkey. 

Severe withdrawal but didn't know it; believed it was my "underlying condition," and kept tapering, 5mg to 4 to 3  to 2 to 1.  

Feb 2016: Found SA! As of June 2016, tapering from 1mg at rate of 5-10% per month, Brassmonkey Slide! 

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Okay, it looks like that link turned into an mp3 that doesn't work. 

 

The audio is from this site http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk

and it's called "First aid for panic." It's free. I have it on my computer and phone.

Current: 2019: 0.04 mg Paxil!! This is real. Soon, after taking Paxil my entire adult life, I will be free.

Long story short: After 18 years on Paxil, "tapered" almost completely off over a month, at doctor's advice in July 2015.

Self-care includes magnesium, reasonable exercise, mindfulness, this forum and nutrition/eating enough food.

Also on 100 mg Zoloft unfortunately!! (which I now will have the knowledge to taper properly)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Longer version: On Paxil since 1996--anxiety & depression caused by (undiagnosed) under-eating / eating disorder.

Doctor kept increasing dose, up to 60 mg; it never really helped but said it really was the best "med" for me.

Rapid doctor-led "taper" July 2015, down to 5 mg, with Zoloft as a "cross-taper" = Essentially a cold turkey. 

Severe withdrawal but didn't know it; believed it was my "underlying condition," and kept tapering, 5mg to 4 to 3  to 2 to 1.  

Feb 2016: Found SA! As of June 2016, tapering from 1mg at rate of 5-10% per month, Brassmonkey Slide! 

Link to post
  • Moderator

Hi ConfussedDad-- I way excited when you said he was going back to school a few posts ago.  I'm sorry that he ended up having trouble with it. There was something that jumped out at me from your last post.  

 

"He started getting panic attacks approaching the school..........It's heartbreaking because he really wants to go."

 

​The base feelings in the stomach and chest of both panic and excitement are identical. It's a matter of interpretation of those feelings that determines which way they go.  Ones first reactions to them sets the course for the next several minutes. It is very common for someone who has had panic attacks to immediately react with "Oh s*** here we go again" and quickly spiral downward into a full blown attack. With practice it's possible to stop the attacks with an immediate reaction of "Oh no you don't"  or better yet, "boy am I excited about what is about to happen, I can't wait, but I had better calm down a bit so I can enjoy it."  Take a couple of deep breaths and continue on with full expectations.

 

Below is a post I wrote about controlling "anger spirals". They're not the same thing but the spiral analogy work in much the same way with panic. It just happens a lot faster. 

 

Hey CW.  Yea, I made up the term. I've been a technical writer for years so everything needs a descriptive title.  I've written about it several place I think I even copied some of the posts into my intro thread, but I usually tailor them to the particular threat I'm on.  There are pretty much four steps: 1) identify that it's happening, 2) defuse the situation, 3) change the channel, 4) go on with life.

 

Identifying the situation can be hard at first because it's very natural to fall into the spiral.  A person needs to go through the entire cycle several times to identify the pattern and understand the progression.  I find that I am several minutes into the pattern before I realize that it's happening again. Learning what ones triggers are is a good place to start and previsualizing situations where those triggers might occur.  That way a person can "keep on guard" when those situations arise. It's frequently the little things that set it off.  Getting cut off in traffic, a coworkers off comment, someones tone of voice.  When a spiral has ended I try to go back and coldly analyse it to see what the trigger was for future reference.

 

Defusing the situation is very important especially in "confrontations".  This is a matter of self preservation because things have a bad habit of escalating to violence, and that has a lot of ramifications.  The person who is angry is often deemed the "bad guy".  The one who hits first is always in the wrong, and the like. Because we're in the anger spiral that put us in the center of things and according to society we have to "control our selves".  So finding ourselves in a bad situation caused by our anger spiral we have to take control and make things right.  Trying to talk out way out of it won't work, the spiral is in control making it so we can't think clearly.  The best bet is to just walk away. It is much better to be seen as rude than violent.  Turn, walk away, relax, regroup and if necessary reapproach the subject from a different angle (work related things you just can't get out of) otherwise drop it and move on.

 

The key aspect of the anger spiral is ruminating thoughts.  Once the trigger happens it sets off of series of mental events that build out of control. There is the initial trigger which is frequently followed with a small flash of anger and then dropped.  A few minutes later the ruminating kicks in with an "I should have..." followed closely by "that's like when....." "those b******s" "I always get treated like this..."  all these thoughts swirling around and compounding each other.  This builds until there is an explosion.  Changing the channel at "I should have..." is the best way out, but it can be done effectively at any point in the spiral.  As soon as one realizes that the spiral is happening changing the channel is called for. I frequently use a stern "don't go there" close my eyes, deep breath and concentrate on what I'm doing.  While distracted I do deep breathing and progressive relaxation to regain control of my body.  I can take several tries to get control back and I need to keep an eye on things so the spiral doesn't try to sneak in several hours later.  This is the part that takes a lot of practice but with time becomes second nature and very effective.

 

Once the spiral has been broken it is best to just go on with life.  The event happened, it was controlled, it's in the past, move on.  Later, after things have had a while to calm down, the situation can be reviewed in a rational manner to understand how it progressed and what worked to defuse it.  It now becomes a learning situation.  During this analysis it is important to use a cold eye so as to avoid retriggering the spiral.

 

Hope that helps CW.

 

It did help CW, so maybe it will shed some light on the situation for you and your son.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Hopefully he will start being able to make it to school. But if he doesn't have you considered home schooling so that he doesn't fall so far behind? There are large home schooling communities with lots of info and resources on how to do this and get high school credits. He could take online courses that have teachers assigning and checking work, ect... Just a thought, though I know your first choice is probably to try to see if he can make it through school. Best of luck to you and your son.

Medicine History

June 2011 I was put on 10 mg Olanzapine. I stayed on that for 7 months then went down to 5 mg for 3 months and then went down to 2.5mg and slowly went down to less than .3 every few days. I have tried to come off 4 times, each time getting down to less than .3 before having to go back on at 5mg or 2.5mg. I would cut by 50% each taper. From Jan 2015 to June 2015 I reduced from about 5mg to .3 mg. This last time I went on 2.5 mg last June 2015 until July 2, 2016. July 3, 2016 I went down to 1.25mg - withdrawal hit. Up dosed to liquid 2 mg July 23, 2016.

Medicine Current

2 mg Olanzapine as of July 23, 2016

Supplements

Omega 3 1000mg, Vitamin E 400 UI, Vitamin C 1000 mg Time Released, 200 mg Magnesium Bisglycinate, Multi Probiotic, .25 mg melatonin for 3-5 days as needed

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Thanks all. You are all so helpful.

 

Yes homeschooling is an option we will go to very soon if he can't go back.

 

Thanks brassmonkey and skyblue.

Son with ADHD and GAD tapered from 100 mg zoloft in 2015 to 50 mg since March 2016. Unable to taper further due to symptoms of depression (never experienced prior to zoloft use). Previously tried prozac and Concerta.

Prozac: 01/15 10 mg, 02/15, 20 mg, 03/15 40 mg, 04/15 40->20->10->0 mg

Concerta: 01/16-04/16 18 mg Stopped

Omeprazole: 20 mg Stopped Jul-17

Zoloft:

25 mg 06/15, 50 mg 08/15, 75 mg 10/15, 100 mg 12/15, 75 mg 13-Feb-16, 50 mg 2-Mar-16, 50/25 mg 12-Mar-16,
25 mg 19-Mar-16, 50 mg 01-Apr-16, 47 mg 22-Oct-16, 
45 mg 29-Oct-16, 43 mg 19-Nov-16, 40 mg 4-Dec-16

38 mg 7-Jan-17, 36 mg 26-Jan-17, 34 mg 15-Feb-17,33.6 19-Feb-17, 32.9 26-Feb-17, 32.1 mg 05-Mar-17,

31.4 mg 12-Mar-17, 30.7 mg 19-Mar-17, 30 mg 26-Mar-17, 29.0 mg 02-Apr-17, 28.0 mg 09-Apr-17,

27.0 mg 16-Apr-17,, 26.0 mg 23-Apr-17, 25.0 mg 25-May-17, 23.2 mg 6-Aug-17.... 12 mg 19-Nov-17

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  • Mentor

Hi confused Dad,    I had a depressed suicidal boy,  he was what would now be classed ADHD,  before they even thought of that term. He was only about 10.  

 

I read about hypoglaecemia,  a friend gave me a small book

 

I worked doing blood testing, pathology,  and I ended up getting him to have a glucose test,  9 tests I think over about 8 hours.

 

Was hard to do, but the result astonishing.              Sugar was like rocket fuel,  I still have the charts, of his sugar level testing.

 

Any sugar, like he went happy fine, then it went way above normal levels,  and his body would basically go into panic mode, and release too much insulin, and instead of bring the sugar to the correct level, it would drop dangerously low.  This meant he did not even have the strength to open a door, and he felt so bad, and sad, and depressed.                            So the poor kid was going through yo yo   s of this daily.

 

Luckily they didnt drug kids in those days, and I completely removed sugar, including all shop food  ............   I made all our own cakes, etc, etc, and put in only half the sugar.    Even milk now has sugar in it!

 

He also ate good stuff for breakfast, following the diabetics diet,  stuff that takes a long time to process, like porridge for breakfast.

 

He is now 35, and Engineer,  he never, ever looked back.                  Diet is so important,  now it is even worse, with glyphosate in all the wheat  (sprayed with it 7 days before harvest in USA)............    and the bovine growth hormone injected into the cows,   the milk, is no longer healthy to drink.

 

If you can, try the healthy diet, all organic, and NO sugar.   And tell him, like I did to my son  ""we will sort this out, we will make sure you feel better"".

 

Teamwork, and well done.                                             Of course, expect the withdrawals from the zoloft,   that is going to confuse the issue.   Please dont add any more drugs.    And taper slowly.

 

 

Best wishes to you and your son.                            Oh, just a question, did he have any vaccinations, like the 6 months before he got sick?       I now know that I was depressed for 12 months following a Rubella shot in high school,  it always puzzled me, why I felt so, so bad, and fatigued, for more than a year.  Only now have others helped me make the connection to the vaccine shot.

 

And now with the Gardasil, hpv shots, so many, many kids are suffering.

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

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