Rico: Zyprexa tapering

[bhasski]

9 minutes ago, Miko789 said:

 

 

I have flu-like symptoms , I can function but I have difficulty. I have seen some improvement but not much while doing mindfullness meditation, I have no idea how to get to grips with that? I'm thinking of going to a neuroligist to get a opinion/ view about it. Or CT?

In conversation I sometimes find it difficult to say the right word. I currently facing an ongoing issue.What about u ?

 

You were on olanzapine for 6 months, on signature.How were you when you quit Ct? Did you have any sleep problems insomnia , any concetration problems. What dose were you on?

 

I changed the doctor and he stopped the olanzapine and made it fluoxetine and others.  No one told me about the wdl and I didn't know about CT.

 

I seem to have sleep issues,memory issues or  image issues also due to olanzapine. 

 

Still having issues and don't know how will they get resolved.

[Plshelp]

Bhasski, Miko and Rico. 

 

You all sound like you're enduring this battle for wellness quite well. Keep fighting and trying to find ways to overcome your struggles! 

[Miko789]

Hi all Rico, bhasski Pshelp

 

So the visit to the neurologist wasn't too bad

The neurologist prescribed a homeopath medicine.I read some reviews, has some side effects but not too bad. I'm not taking it for now because I don't want agitation, flare-up symptoms .I want to be OK before during and after the trip to the U.K.. My last cut to olanzapine was 4 weeks before, should I do a ¼ cut of pill or wait because I have that trip to the UK. The visit to t neurologist wasn't too bad. He asked personal queries and I avoided them by triple.

The fact that worries me has to do with his curiosity why I visited him 9 months after the last visit. He has contacts in public healthcare system. . good or bad....future will tell.

 

 

[Rico]

Hi All,

 

I haven't written in a while and thought I would give you all an update.

 

I did PM JanCarol recently with a long message, but it is more appropriate for me to write to the group as a whole.

 

I spent 6 weeks in hospital earlier this year and discharged on 19/02. They gave me all sorts of drugs that don't work for me and eventually listened to me and discharged me on just lithium (again).

 

They discharged me on 4 tables (4 * 450mg = 1800mg), but i reduced that down to two tablets over a few weeks.

 

I started working again (very lucky opportunity, I definitely wasn't mentally ready) on the 7th March. 

 

A week or so into work and I was having major relationship issues and also stressed out from work. All the stress combined caused me to have a 'mini-breakdown" where I couldn't sleep and my nervous system was so exhausted that I was experiencing sharp pain running down the left of my head and arm. It was horrible. Only recently, weeks later, has the pain subsided, but I am terribly depressed.

 

When I go to sleep tonight, I just pass out and I am constantly tired. I have managed to hang on to my job, but it looks like the relationship is going to have to take a back seat for a while. I was really overloaded by all the stress and my nervous system was completely stressed out.

 

I am currently taking 1125mg of Lithium and my doctor is happy for me to taper as long as I let him know. 

 

I often feel that I have permanently damaged my brain, because I feel very different than before and my memory issues are worse. 

 

I wish I didn't have that fight with my girlfriend and stress out so much

 

Rico

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

Since I didn’t have any replies to my last message, I figured that maybe no one is interested anymore. I do need some help though.

 

Since my last message I tapered lithium a little bit more but then ran in to trouble at 675mg. My psychiatrist insisted that I return to a therapeutic dose of 1350mg, which I did a couple of days ago.

 

Since returning to the “therapeutic” dose, I have been suffering immensely with headaches and severe depression.

 

i haven’t gone to work and I am struggling to even write this message. Life is so hard.

 

I met a new psychiatrist / psychotherapist who believe he can help me with therapy and to get off lithium over a long period of time. My current psychiatrists though, maintains I have a disorder that will need indefinite drug treatment.

 

I’m confused, I can’t seem to get on with my life as I am constantly sick.

 

I hope someone responds.

Rico

[Altostrata]

On 5/2/2018 at 12:50 AM, Rico said:

but then ran in to trouble at 675mg.

 

What kind of trouble, Rico?

 

What is your current drug schedule?

[Rico]

Hi Alto, thanks for the reply. 

 

When I got down to 675mg, I had trouble sleeping, migraines and really depressed. Everyone around me was saying "it's because you reduced" blah blah blah. 

 

My psychiatrist told me to go back up to 1350mg  of lithium because that was the therapeutic dose. After doing so, I got worse, and was off work for a week due to side effects.

 

I have been experiencing a lot of dry eyes at night and migraines. For some reason, I seem to be waking up at 2am every night with dry eyes and migraines and it's hard to get back to sleep.

 

My current lithium dose is 1125mg and since yesterday, I have been taking it all in the morning, in the hope that I can get a better sleep. I would say I am feeling maybe 5% better, but still tired, lethargic, depressed, head barely working and just dragging myself around in a zombie state.

 

I am trying my best to keep my job, but I feel soooo worn out. I have not smiled or felt anything positive for quite a while now. I feel like my body has just shut down or something. I don't know. 

 

When I close my eyes, I feel pain and don't feel that wave of relaxation anymore. Have I busted my CNS here or what??/

 

Thanks,
Rico

[Miko789]

On Mon Apr 09 2018 at 3:45 AM, Rico said:

weeks.

 

I started working again (very lucky opportunity, I definitely wasn't mentally ready) on the 7th March. 

 

A week or so into work and I was having major relationship issues and also stressed out from work. All the stres.

 

How long you stayed on the job Rico?

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would write a quick update. I will update my signature soon (running out of room so have to shuffle things around).

 

I have been working since March 7 this year (sorry Miko for the late reply) - and in summary, I am still struggling with Lithium tapering and withdrawals. 

 

Since my last post, my pdoc agreed to let me reduce the lithium . On 25th of May, I reduced to 900mg, and didn't really experience any new issues. I was taking 450mg in the morning and 450mg at night.

 

I moved out of home and I started eating healthier. I was finding the lithium side effects more and more unbearable. 

 

On 8th of June, I reduced the lithium to 675mg - and decided to take it all in the morning because I didn't want to feel the side effects at night, as I believe they were causing me issues like dry eyes.

 

Since 8th of June - or this week- I have had pretty severe withdrawal symptoms. I have still managed to go to  work, but I am miserable, depressed, head pain, feeling sick, and trouble sleeping. My memory is really bad. 

 

I know the cuts should be smaller than this, and again, I had the best intentions of doing a 10% taper. However, the side effects were becoming too unbearable and I don't tolerate this drug anymore. 

 

I will go back to taking the lithium all in the evening and hold on this dose. I spoke to my pdoc and his immediate response was "you need to be on a therapeutic level" and he no longer supports me coming off lithium. He didn't believe what i was going through was withdrawal and even suggested that I take an antipsychotic drug instead of lithium. This made me more depressed. The first sign of withdrawal, and he reverts back to this crap. 

 

I would love to hear from someone. I am bordering on rock-bottom at the moment...

 

Thanks,
Rico

 

[lucyinthesky]

Hey Rico,

 

I read a lot of your thread. You have been through so much and for so long - my heart goes out to you. 

 

It is discouraging when doctors aren't supportive but as we know, it is rare that they understand the true impact of withdrawing from antipsychotic medications. We should come to expect the worst from them and stay strong in our choices...

 

I can't really offer advice at this point, but please just hold on to that hope in your heart that you'll get to the other side. You managed to taper from Zyprexa and that is a horrible one...

 

Keep strong.

[Altostrata]

16 hours ago, Rico said:

I was taking 450mg in the morning and 450mg at night.

 

I moved out of home and I started eating healthier. I was finding the lithium side effects more and more unbearable. 

 

On 8th of June, I reduced the lithium to 675mg - and decided to take it all in the morning because I didn't want to feel the side effects at night, as I believe they were causing me issues like dry eyes. 

 

Rico, you reduced the dosage AND you changed your lithium schedule at the same time. Only one change at a time, remember?

 

Why did you decide to take your lithium dosage all at one time of day? I think this is your mistake.

[frasier23]

On 4/9/2018 at 2:45 AM, Rico said:

Hi All,

 

I haven't written in a while and thought I would give you all an update.

 

I did PM JanCarol recently with a long message, but it is more appropriate for me to write to the group as a whole.

 

I spent 6 weeks in hospital earlier this year and discharged on 19/02. They gave me all sorts of drugs that don't work for me and eventually listened to me and discharged me on just lithium (again).

 

They discharged me on 4 tables (4 * 450mg = 1800mg), but i reduced that down to two tablets over a few weeks.

 

I started working again (very lucky opportunity, I definitely wasn't mentally ready) on the 7th March. 

 

A week or so into work and I was having major relationship issues and also stressed out from work. All the stress combined caused me to have a 'mini-breakdown" where I couldn't sleep and my nervous system was so exhausted that I was experiencing sharp pain running down the left of my head and arm. It was horrible. Only recently, weeks later, has the pain subsided, but I am terribly depressed.

 

When I go to sleep tonight, I just pass out and I am constantly tired. I have managed to hang on to my job, but it looks like the relationship is going to have to take a back seat for a while. I was really overloaded by all the stress and my nervous system was completely stressed out.

 

I am currently taking 1125mg of Lithium and my doctor is happy for me to taper as long as I let him know. 

 

I often feel that I have permanently damaged my brain, because I feel very different than before and my memory issues are worse. 

 

I wish I didn't have that fight with my girlfriend and stress out so much

 

Rico

Rico , your health is most important now. Be kind with your body and soul. They don't want to work now.

 

Avoid all pressure from society that you need a job, girlfriend etc. (ofc you need money but maybe there is a welfare system in your country?). If you have problems with you girlfriend, tell her you need a pause since you can't handle the stress. Socialise ONLY with people that you trust and want your best. You will be able to have girls in the future if you fix your health first (maybe you can restart with same girl again if you believe she is/was special). 

 

Start build up a big trust in yourself and that you're most important. Your body want to heal as well as your brain and soul. They don't wanna work. Only positive stuff from now so you can get off whatever medicine left. Exercising HIT, weight lifting, sunlight, healthy food and funny things is where your focus gonna be.  Be kind to yourself.

 

 

 

 

[Rico]

Thank you Lucyinthesky, Alto and Frasier for your reply. I will provide a more detailed update of what has been happening shortly, and i hope that you can offer me some support going forward. Life has been quite rough lately but I am still hanging on. I really value all your comments. I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment, so I will come back and write a proper update. Thank you and I hope you are all doing well. 

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

Things are going too well at the moment.

 

A few weeks' ago I switched from taking the slow release lithium (Quilonium SR) to the Lithicarb. I did this because my research revealed that you shouldn't split the slow release lithium tablets and that they are not really slow release per say, but rather, the lithium is concentrated in the tablet alongside other chemicals. I figured that it would be easier to taper using the standard lithium tablets, so I switch over from taking 900mg of Quilonium to 875mg of Lihicarb (this dosage was convenient as it meant I could take 1.5 tables in the morning and 2 at night = each tablet bing 250mg of lithium).

 

My memory isn't 100% right now, but things did seem to go ok for a number of weeks. I have been having ongoing relationship issues which have caused me a lot of stress. I have been able to hold down a full time job, but I would say my mood has been generally low. I have been dealing with my feelings at times in destructive ways like gambling etc, and I have started going to  a 12 step program for help, which does offer a lot of support.

 

A week ago, I reduced the dosage by 125mg, a 14% reduction (again, and probably wrong of me, I chose this reduction because it was convenient). I have been taking ever since 1.5 tablets in the morning and 1.5 tablets at night - a total dose of 750mg.

 

The main thing I noticed after the reduction was I could feel more and I think I started feeling more depressed. I also gave up smoking because it was making me sick, and on Tuesday of last week, I had another stressful conflict with my partner. We have been trying to take a break from the relationship, but we ended up fighting again. I was worn out and didn't go to work on Wednesday. I managed to go to work on Thursday, but didn't feel well. I started having problems sleeping with lots of headaches and head pain, so I didn't go to work on Friday.

 

Since then, I have been suffering with a lot of anxiety and depression and feeling lots of pain in my body. It's hard for me to identify what caused what, because a fair bit has happened this week. I just recently started smoking again, and I feel calmer - so maybe quitting smoking cold turkey isn't a good idea either!

 

I am feeling lost right now. I don't know if I should reinstate back to the 875mg dose or higher. I really miss my partner, and I am quite distressed by the physical 'male' issues that I have had ever since that injection of an antipsychotic back in December 2014. 

 

I am really depressed and tired and am in desperate need of some direction. Coming off lithium is hard because I have been on it for so long and dealing with these emotions can be very difficult for me. At the same time, I do find that I feel sick after I take it and this is the reason I want to come off it.

 

Thanks

Rico

 

[Ather]

Rico, never forget that you are a Fighter, keep Fighting ! Discuss all the side effects in detail with your doc even then if he continues then you should be taking it as prescribed.

Spend sometime of your day and at night in Prayers, Prayers do work !

 

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

A week ago, I reduced the dosage by 125mg, a 14% reduction (again, and probably wrong of me, I chose this reduction because it was convenient). I have been taking ever since 1.5 tablets in the morning and 1.5 tablets at night - a total dose of 750mg.

 

If you reduced your liithium dosage by 125mg and you found it was too much, why not add 62.5mg back? That's a quarter of a tablet, correct?

 

Please do not make more than one drug change at a time.

 

What times of day do you current take your drugs, and their dosages? What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

[Plshelp]

Rico, 

I think it's great that you're starting to feel more emotions! 

 

I'm sorry that things are kinda rough and out of sorts at this point. Just know, that as a human being, you're doing the best you can and know how with the tools you have learned. 

 

You can't control these emotional upheavals, so you need to just try to figure out how to cope, until things normalize (and hopefully they do!). I once talked with a DBT therapist and she said, emotions are like waves. You need to just ride them out. If you don't, the wave keeps getting bigger with more intensity, then plateaus and then starts small again and gets high, bcus of you don't let the emotions run their course, you get stuck in a hyper sensitive state. 

 

Like everyone recommends, keep point form notes, on your phone, or someplace that's easy to record it. Keep track of your medication, emotions, any changes and what you did to cope. You'll eventually see patterns and hopefully more positive changes and they should diminish over time. (I'm not talking from experience, but from what others have informed me about and what I have read). 

 

Listen to your body and go slow. Even though you feel sick from taking the medication, this ain't a race worth risking your recovery. 

 

All the best to you! 

Praise be! Xo

[Rico]

Thanks Alto and Pslhelp.

 

The key symptoms I have been experiencing since al the stress of last week are:

 

- head pain, especially when I close my eyes at night

- I sleep about 4-5 hours and wake up with my brain in pain

 

I've just woken up now and I don't know if I can go to work today because of this head pain. 

 

When I was going to sleep last night, and closing my eyes, I couldn't think or have any thoughts - just lots of pain in my head. 

 

I somehow got to sleep. I must be really stressed out or is my brain damaged?

 

I am really not sure what to do. I haven't made any changes to the lithium medication or put the dosage back up yet.

 

Your help is greatly appreciated.

[Altostrata]

Rico, on July 15, you increased the lithium dramatically from 450mg to 1500mg. I strongly recommend you speak to your doctor about your current pattern of adverse reactions.

 

We could suggest you reduce the lithium -- you know how to do that -- but if you keep on going to the hospital and getting huge doses, we can't do anything about that.

 

I recommend you bookmark this page https://www.drugs.com/sfx/lithium-side-effects.html

[Rico]

Hi Alto,

 

The July 15 reference in my signature refers to last year.

 

I am sorry if my signature is not clear. I have been meaning to update it, but I just haven't thought of a way to do it without losing previous information.

 

Here is a brief recent history of my lithium dosages and changes:

 

February 19 - discharged from hospital on 1350mg of lihium

 

March 7 - started full time work

 

A couple of weeks later - reduced lithium to 1125

 

Later reduced to 900mg......experienced problems, psychiatrist said I have to be on 'therapeutic' dose - so rapidly increased to 1350 - became really sick

 

Gradually went down back to 900mg (all using Quiloinium SR) so far.

 

Switched over to Lithicarb - 875mg

 

13 July - reduced lithicarb by 14% or 125mg..

 

Week after 13 July had stressful conflict and work pressure....

 

Symptoms since then have been headaches and being in a lot pain mentally and physically; depressed and feeling really stressed.

 

Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

 

 

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

I am doing ok again after a week of pretty intense withdrawal and drama in my personal life.

 

I have stabilised again on 750mg of lithium, and for the first time I can really see that my symptoms were withdrawal related.

 

I will stay on this dose for at least a month before considering another taper - which will definitely be a lot smaller than the previous one of 14%!

 

I am experiencing quite a lot of side effects shortly after taking the lithium, but there's not much I can do other than look forward to getting off it slowly.

 

Thank you all for your support.

 

Rico

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

I have had a really rough week. I recently broke up with my girlfriend because there was too much stress in the relationship and we were both suffering from it.

 

I've had some unhealthy behaviours for a long time that I have used to cope with stress and emotional pain, so I've started doing a 12 step program for sex and love addiction which has been very confronting, yet very helpful.

 

I am starting more and more now to find ways of coping with my emotions without running back to doctors in a panic. It is very hard to start living "normally" and find ways of coping without turning to doctors for more drugs or calling an ambulance etc. I was extremely stressed yesterday so I went to the sauna and spa with a friend and just lay there. 

 

My mind doesn't stop. It's hard sleeping at the moment too. When I close my eyes, I can feel my nervous system really struggling and very shaky. I've always had issues with anxiety since I was young. The support of the 12 step program is helping me to not run from my emotions and to try and sit with them.

 

I crave for the day that I can look forward to sleeping and wake up refreshed. It's been a long time since I have felt that. 

 

My psychiatrist is very supportive too at the moment and he is happy for me to continue on the 750mg lithium that I am on. I am not tapering it down any further until I stabilise a bit more and start exercising and quitting smoking.

 

I am very confident that if I can fix up my life and behaviour that I can one day be medication free and live as a whole person. The lithium does dull me down a bit, but it's the least of my problems. I smoke too much, have a poor diet and I don't do any exercise.

 

I am pleased to say that this has been the longest stretch of time (~6 months) where I have not been in hospital. I am working full time, and although it is difficult, I am managing ok. I am nowhere near 100% but I continue to pray that one day I will get there. The last relationship I was in was in many ways unhealthy and I often blame myself for it not working. So, now I am on my own trying to do life, and boy - it is not easy.

 

Thanks everyone here for your kind words and support over last couple of years.

Rico

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

No one has replied to my last post, but I will provide an update anyway. 

I am doing ok and tapering the lithium slowly. My memory is really screwed but I am surviving and working full time.

 

My brain doesn't feel the same anymore. I have a lot of trouble sleeping and these days, I just pass out and wake up. I haven't had a natural, refreshing sleep for a long time - you know the one where you wake up feeling really good.

 

I hope you are all doing ok.

 

Rico

[ChessieCat]

Thank you the update.  It's good that you are able to work.

 

Even if you aren't experiencing insomnia you might find some helpful tips here:  Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

[Rico]

Thanks ChessieCat for your reply. Your website has some pretty helpful information on it, thank you.

 

I thought I would write another update, since I recently reduced my lithium dose by 5% (62.5mg, which is a quarter of a 250mg tablet). 

 

My current dose is 1062.5mg (500mg in the morning, 562.5mg at night)

 

I always get a little stressed about tapering, because I want to avoid having to go to a compounding pharmacy to get the right dose, but it looks like I will have to do this or use a scale.

 

I am definitely going to hold on this dose until things get a little better. I've had a chest infection for the last week and I have discovered that smoking cigarettes is making me really sick, but I haven't been successful in giving up. I believe the additional chemicals (fire safe chemicals) that are in cigarettes are making me ill. I really need to quit.

 

I have been seeing a good GP who through diet, has helped me reduce my insulin levels and other levels too. Lately, my diet has been bad again,

 

I am working full time and I struggle with fatigue a lot. My steep pattern lately has been to go to bed at 11pm and wake up around 2:30-3:00 am. 

 

I am waking up due to coughing or possible sleep apnea - I did get a referral from a GP to a sleep clinic, but I haven't followed through with it yet. 

 

So, there's a whole bunch of things that I am trying to juggle and I am not in the best physical state right now. I would say smoking too much has been the biggest contributor to bad health.

 

I am also a bit scared about having another relapse or this tapering process failing. I have had a bad habit in the past of tapering too quickly because 'I felt ok'.

 

I have been considering seeing a new psychiatrist who also does psychotherapy, but to be honest, I am not too sure if it's worth it. 

 

I have this fantasy of being able to see a regular doctor who can monitor my withdrawal and be supportive, but anytime I mention wanting to come off lithium to a psychiatrist, they run a million miles. I haven't seen my current psychiatrist for a while because the last conversation we had didn't go so well. I was on 1500mg lithium at the time and my legs were swelling and I was barely able to function at work due to the physical side effects of the lithium. He told me to get a blood test, which returned a level of 0.4. In the past, 1500mg of lithium would return a much higher blood level. He stuck to his 'therapeutic level' mantra and I was very firm with him that there is no way I would be taking more lithium. His only other solution is to try another medication - but I have tried them all, and I don't want to substitute one problem with another. 

 

I am scared though, because the last hospitalisation was only a few months' ago and the transition from being 'ok' to being really sick was really subtle. I can't even remember what happened exactly. I do remember checking myself in to the private hospital where my psychiatrist works and then getting terribly frightened at night and running away from the hospital and walking to a suburb that is an hour away. I have no recollection of this walk, I just remember getting really frightened at night and wanting to escape. I wish there was someone who can understand all this in another way other than just say "you had an episode because you have bipolar disorder and therefore need medication for life". 

 

I find that my tolerance for stress is quite low and it doesn't take much for me to feel dysfunctional at work after feeling stressed. 

 

Right now, my memory is really bad. I can barely remember much of the past. Cognition is ok, but I am quite tired and sleep has not been great. The anxiety of "am I doing the right thing here" is starting to kick in. I am starting to doubt whether tapering was a good idea or not, so all I can do for now is not taper any further until I can get on top of things.

 

I feel right now that I am just in survival mode and not really experiencing any emotions. A couple of days' ago, I didn't take my night dose of lithium because it was really late when I got home, and I found that I slept much better that night and the next day, I almost felt like myself again. For me, the lithium really makes me feel quite depressed and disconnected and feelings which I couldn't describe in words.

 

I am going to hold on the current dose until the end of the year or longer. I really need to get all the other areas of my physical health on track first before tapering further.

 

Would love to receive some feedback from you.

 

Thanks,
Rico

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Rico, that cough and chest infection sounds like it could be serious, perhaps you can hold on your next reduction of lithium until it's cleared up? Has your doctor ordered a culture to see if you need an antibiotic?

 

Your body may indeed be telling you to go off cigarettes. This can be difficult, too. It may be more important to do this than go off lithium right now. (A friend managed to taper off cigarette pretty quickly by substituting herbal cigarettes instead, it satisfied her smoking habit, then she cut down on the herbal cigarettes.)

[Rico]

Thanks for your reply Alto. You're right - I will hold off any more tapering until I am more stable and the chest infection has cleared up. The doctor gave me antibiotics which I have now finished, I am not too sure if I should go on another course or not.

 

Yes, my body is definitely telling me to go off cigarettes, and they way they affect me now is very different than they have in the past. Smoking cigarettes causes me a lot of anxiety and restless, but it isn't easy to give up. A couple of weeks' ago, I quit for 3 days, but found it too hard to cope with my emotions, so I went back on them. 

 

I hope you're doing well,

Rico

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

gave me antibiotics which I have now finished, I am not too sure if I should go on another course or not.

 

I suggest you get tested to see if the infection has cleared.  At least that way you will know if it has cleared or you will know if you need another course.  It would be better than to leave it to see what happens and then have to get another course and then possibly have to then have another course after that.

 

I other words make sure it's cleared up now.  That's the easiest and safest way.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Smoking cigarettes causes me a lot of anxiety and restless, but it isn't easy to give up. A couple of weeks' ago, I quit for 3 days, but found it too hard to cope with my emotions, so I went back on them. 

 

Giving up smoking is very difficult.  I like Alto's idea of using herbal cigarettes.  You could do a cross over eg alternate herbal and regular to start with then 1 regular and 2 herbal cigarettes etc.  That way you reduce the physical dependency of the nicotine and then you can work on the habitual dependency of the act of smoking, instead of trying to do both at once.

 

Just found this:  https://whyquit.com/joels-videos/what-about-using-herbal-cigarettes-to-quit-smoking/

 

You would need to make sure of the ingredients.  Joel in the video says that tests on some herbal cigarettes showed they had tobacco blended in.

[Rico]

Thanks ChessieCat, I will look into getting herbal cigarettes or find another way to quit.

 

I'd just like to share that right now I am feeling really run down. I am trying to understand why I feel the way I do, but I can't. So much is going on in my life, that it's hard to pin point what's causing what. I just woke up from a nap fairly anxious and the first thought that comes through my mind when I am anxious is that I am going to end up in hospital again. I think I have been traumatised by the previous hospitalisations I've had. 

 

I really wish someone could help me understand what's wrong with me. Why am I in so much pain? My memory is really failing me and this makes it difficult to understand what's going on. I admit that I am not very good at looking after myself. 

[ChessieCat]

It may take a little while to feel improvement after the infection.

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

It is Day 4 and I haven't had a single cigarette! My body feels so much better and I am a LOT calmer than when I was smoking. I am also finding that it is easier to lie down and rest.

 

I have also stopped caffeine and trying my best to avoid sugar too.

 

I am not focusing too much on the lithium tapering for now. I am trying to get my body in a much healthier state before I do more tapering.

 

Stopping smoking has been the biggest step I have ever taken in my life other than deciding to quit zyprexa a couple of years' ago.

 

I am excited!

 

Rico

[Shep]

Excellent news, Rico! I think you're making a wise decision on prioritizing your overall health first.  The rest will fall into place. 

 

Congratulations on quitting cigarettes, caffeine, and sugar. Very well played. 

[Rico]

Thanks Shep, so great to hear from you!

 

It has been 5 days now of no cigarettes or caffeine and minimal sugar, and boy - my emotions are really coming out. 

 

Although I am definitely not feeling the best, I am feeling a lot more in control than before and I know that being off cigarettes is a good thing. 

 

My main question I would like to ask is regarding the lithium. Since being off the cigarettes, I am finding that the lithium is making me really sick. 

 

I take the lithium in two doses - morning and night. After taking the morning dose this morning (500mg = 2 tablets), I felt very sick and by the time I got to work, I felt quite sick. 

 

How am I meant to do a gradual taper when the drug is making me so sick? Is there anything I can do other than make a radical cut, which could be problematic?

 

Thanks,
Rico

[Shep]

Rico, I looked up withdrawal symptoms of nicotine because I'm wondering if your nervous system may be reacting to that (and in turn, making you a bit hyper-reactive to the lithium). 

 

These are the withdrawal symptoms of nicotine:

 

What is Nicotine Withdrawal? - Physical Withdrawal Symptoms

 

You may want to read up on some of the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal. I did a quick search and found that it can take several days for nicotine to fully leave your system if you're a long-time smoker. 

 

Headaches, dizziness, GI symptoms, etc are all part of the package when coming off nicotine. Are these symptoms what you are feeling when you felt "very sick"? 

 

I had a friend over on a benzo forum who came off cigarettes after she came off Xanax, but she did so by tapering her cigarettes. If it gets unbearable, you may want to reinstate a few cigarettes and see if that helps. If so, you could hold there and then when you're feeling better, reduce by one cigarette at a time. Or even taper more slowly by smoking two thirds of a cigarette and putting the rest out. And the next reduction, smoking one third and putting the rest out. 

 

The only problem with nicotine withdrawal is the "craving" form of addiction may make it harder to bring cigarettes back into your life now that you stopped. So you'll need to weigh the pros and the cons. 

 

Are you able to take a couple of days off of work to adjust? Are you going to be off more in the coming weeks as the holidays approach? 

 

Since this is a new symptom and you weren't hyper-reactive to lithium prior to stopping smoking, I really think it's related to nicotine withdrawal, but I'd like to know your thoughts. 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

I think you may be right with regards to my current reaction to lithium and nicotine withdrawal.

 

The 'feeling sick' that I refer to is similar to the feeling I have had before when I was taking too much lithium. My best description of it is a toxic, sickening feeling that I feel all over my body, especially my throat and gut. I find that I quickly feel quite depressed too - not a melancholy depression, but a nauseous, sickening feeling. I am not sure if depression is the right word, but I am left quite angry and bitter and physically sick. This has been happening within an hour of my morning and bed time dose.

 

Yesterday was my birthday and it was also a really tough day at work. I was in the thick of nicotine withdrawal, because the irritability, anger, etc...were at their peak. There is an underlying sense of freedom that I feel in my body by not smoking, but unfortunately, I have used nicotine for 20 years as an emotional crutch. By the end of the day, I ended up smoking 12 cigarettes at my birthday party and I actually felt really sick afterwards. I went to bed really sick and depressed and now, woken up 5 hours later also feeling sick, anxious. The first thought that went through my mind when I woke up was "oh no, I am heading towards a breakdown, I am going to go to hospital".

 

I don't know if this is PTSD or some trauma, but I have a lot of anxiety about ending up in hospital. I am so scared of slipping into an "episode" or not coping and ending up in hospital. They are very traumatic places, and I have been to too many now and that's my biggest fear on a daily basis. 

 

I am starting to learn how to cope with problems without abandoning myself to a psychiatrist who will drug me. I am such a slow learner, but I think I am finally realising that there are other ways of coping than to just get drugged up. 

 

As for the cigarettes, I don't think reinstating is a good idea - I may need to get nicotine replacement like patches or gum though. The key problem with cigarettes - especially the ones sold in Australia, is that there are lots of chemicals added now that are for fire safety reasons. The number of chemicals is huge and many smokers, including myself, have noticed that cigarettes don't even taste the same anymore - they honestly taste really awful, but it is the nicotine addiction which keeps me having one anyway. That's how powerful nicotine is!! 

 

I have fallen off the horse, but I am going to try again. I am not going to do anything with the lithium right now, other than maybe make sure I have lots of water and something to eat with my doses, as I feel this may make a difference. I really want to taper properly this time and not get myself into a situation where i end up in hospital because of withdrawal symptoms.

 

Withdrawal symptoms are absolutely real and it is so sad that they go unrecognised. This journey to sanity and mental well being is a really difficult one and I am very grateful for the help I have found here.

 

Rico