Rico: Zyprexa tapering

[Shep]

Rico, one tip:  You may try taking one of the "brakes" earlier in the day. Do you know which drug is the least sedating? If there is a paradoxical reaction going on, this may help with sleep.

[Rico]

Thanks Shep for your reply.

 

I saw my psychiatrist yesterday who wants me to get a second opinion from the top psychiatrist in Australia for mood disorders because there's nothing more he can do for me.

 

He doesn't agree that I had withdrawal symptoms and continues to tell me that I was having a relapse.

 

I must admitt that I am scared. I have been under this fear-based treatment for so long, and I woke up this morning thinking "what if he's right?", "what if I need more medications?" (as he suggested). I have also been hospitalised many times this year, which gives me no credibility at all.

 

At the same time, I don't feel like I can function with these medications - especially the Zyprexa.

 

Right now, I feel slow and zombie like and anxious too. I constantly feel like I am brain damaged.

 

How long should I hold before tapering the zyprexa?

 

Also, I feel that the 10% reduction of current dose is really slow. I am desperate to get of this drug!!

 

Thanks,
Rico

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.

 

I would keep your drug dose steady for all three drugs, but move one of them to earlier in the day. I can't provide an exact time frame for you, as I don't know your schedule and if you need to be able to work, drive, take care of family, etc. 

 

If you are having a paradoxical reaction, moving one of the drugs to earlier in the day may help with your sleep. Just getting an hour or two more of sleep can help tremendously with your symptoms. 

 

Please try this and then list your information as listed in this post - Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

Please give us an update over the next few days to see how you are doing. I would be very cautious about tapering right now, and simply focus on moving the dose of one medication to earlier in the day. Doing too many things at one time makes it impossible to know what is causing which symptom. 

 

I know the 10% reduction seems slow, but if you destabilize your CNS, you will set yourself back and cause worse problems. Please keep in mind, psychiatric drugs are notorious for causing a delayed withdrawal syndrome, meaning some symptoms may not show up until weeks or even months after you make a reduction. This is one reason these drugs are so difficult to come off of, and one reason most doctors mistake withdrawal for a relapse of depression, bipolar, etc.

 

Please re-read your thread, as we've linked you to a lot of information, and it's a lot to process. Let us know if you have any specific questions after you've had time to read and absorb. You're going to be fine, Rico, but please go slowly and carefully. 

[Rico]

Thanks Shep.

 

I am not doing too well. I wake up in the mornings very anxious and I don't get a good sleep. My nervous systems feels like it is panicking. I feel so awful that I consider going to hospital.

 

Things get a little better during the day, but I find that I am in a daze, sedated, and barely functioning. I am too mentally exhausted to process any emotions or stress. I feel really worn out and frustrated that my doctor does not understand that the medications he has prescribed have pretty much caused this.

 

Zyprexa doesn't work for me anymore. And the Epilim medication makes me feel depresssed. I've never had a problem with lithium though.

 

I am tired but find it hard to sleep because I have tinnitus. The suicidal thoughts are still there in the mornings, but they wear off.

 

I feel so traumatised by psychiatry and what they have done to me for the last 20 years. On countless occasions doctors have screwed me around with drugs and I have lost out.

 

I hope I am not brain damaged and that I will be like this long term. I am more than just depressed - I am barely functioning. My memory is poor, my concentration is non-existent, I have no energy and I am exhausted with all this psych stuff.

 

Ever since receiving 2 injections of Paliperidone (Invega Sustenna) in late 2014, I have not been the same. I had the worse adverse reaction ever and I was tormented for months. What I am going through now feels worse because I haven't got the energy to fight. I am very weak emotionally, physically and spiritually too.

 

I have no choice but to move forward, but it is so hard when you have a psychiatrist that just wants to make my suffering worst and not listen to how I feel. I feel trapped because I have a label.

 

I really miss life.

[Shep]

I hear you, Rico, and I totally understand. Most of us on this forum have similar stories in having been lied to and drugged, many of us for decades. 

 

We all have to find some level of acceptance, if only to give ourselves the energy to cope with the struggles of withdrawal. In time, it seems we all find ways of coping with this kind of betrayal. If possible, try to compartmentalize these thoughts so you can pack them away for when you have the strength for them. 

 

In the end, getting off the drugs and healing brings enough peace, you won't regret going through this journey.

 

Sometimes reading the success stories is helpful:

 

Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

 

I am tired but find it hard to sleep because I have tinnitus. 

 

Do you sleep with any background music or sounds? I keep a fan running at night, which helps. Other people use White Noise or nature sound apps. 

 

You mentioned melatonin in a previous thread. Please read this thread about melatonin, especially the first post. For best results when your CNS is destabilized, using the smallest dose is best. Larger doses tend to wake the brain up.

 

Melatonin

 

Many people, myself included, found mindfulness to be a great way to not only handle symptoms, but to find acceptance. You can learn about that and more non-drug coping skills here:

 

Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

Did you try moving one of your drugs to earlier in the day? Please take careful notes of your symptoms with each dose and write down when you take it. Once you have moved a drug to earlier in the day, it's best to take your drugs at the same time each day. 

 

 

[Rico]

HI Shep, thanks for you reply and help.

 

I tried yesterday taking all the drugs a few hours earlier and went to sleep at around 10pm.

 

I woke up 5am with my brain completely frozen...I couldn't talk, or think, I just sat downstairs staring blankly.

 

I then became quite anxious and panicky.

 

I tried to go back to sleep but I was bombarded with anxiety, suicidal thoughts and the like.

 

Right now I feel quite slow, depressed and hopeless. My pdoc doesn't want to have anything to do with me because he says he can't help me anymore.

 

On this current dose of medications, I used to sleep for longer (but still wake up in a mess).

 

I feel like I have gone downhill. I am also convinced that the zyprexa (especially) is doing more harm than good right now.

 

I am starting to despair a little. I don't know where I can go for help that wont result in more drugs. I fear that I have damaged my CNS quite bad.

 

I am finding it hard to focus on conversations and am quite distressed about all the events that occurred this year.

 

There is also a dull pain on the left side of my head, and I feel quite groggy.

 

Should I go into a hospital? I am really not sure what to do. I feel that I am not improving at all.

 

I have a lot of anxiety too about the past/future, not being able to be with my girlfriend, no job...blaming myself for the numerous CT's this year. I am confused.

[scallywag]

Anxiety and worry about the future are intensified for some people during withdrawal.  A member here coined the term "neuro-emotion." You can read about others' experiences with this in the topic about Neuro-emotions.

 

It can take a while for your symptoms to settle down after stabilizing your dose. Please be patient AND gentle with yourself.

[Rico]

Can someone please help with the following problem:

 

Summary: Holding on current dose since last taper attempt failed but not stabilising, feel like I am getting worse.

 

I feel like the current meds (zyprexa 2.5, Lithium 900mg, Epilim 1000) are making me worse - especially the Zyprexa.

 

I took my medications at 8:00pm last night and found it difficult to sleep. I felt pain in my head and just couldn't switch off.

 

In the past, this combination of medications would just help me sleep - and although I would wake up zonked out, I would have gotten rest.

 

Last night, I was so desperate to sleep so I took 10mg of Valium. I eventually slept, but woke up with very bad anxiety and really jittery. This is why I hate using valium.

 

I don't feel right at all. My eyes are sore and generally, my head muscles don't feel right. I tried to have a nap today, but couldn't switch off.

 

It really feels like my nervous system is completely worn out. I am stressed out and the medication are making me worse.

 

I feel very frustrated and that I am mentally declining.

 

I am considering checking in to a hospital....My original plan was to hold on the current dosages until I am stabilized - but I am not stabilizing, I am getting worse.

[ChessieCat]

Are you doing as Shep suggested in this post (ie keeping notes on paper)?  Providing this information (what drug you take when and the time that symptoms appear) can be helpful for the mods to work out what suggestions to make.

 

If you do decide to go to hospital, they may increase your dosage/s, add another drug, CT you.  This is something that you need to consider.  Are you thinking clearly enough, or do have someone who could advocate on your behalf, to be able to assess what they might try and give you?

 

"I took my medications at 8:00pm last night"

 

Are you taking all medications at 8.00 pm?

 

Shep, in post #40 suggested:  "If you are having a paradoxical reaction, moving one of the drugs to earlier in the day may help with your sleep. Just getting an hour or two more of sleep can help tremendously with your symptoms."

 

Have you tried that?

[Rico]

Thanks ChessieCat.

 

I was confused as to which medication to take earlier so I tried taking all of them earlier. I slept at 10pm and then woke up at 5am completely frizen mentally - unable to talk etc, and then I became very anxious.

 

The next night (which was last night) I returned to taking all of them at 8pm.

 

I am not sure which one to take earlier in the day.

 

To be perfectly honest I am quite confused and overwhelmed right now.

 

All I know is that the medications are not having the same effect as they used to in the past. Zyprexa used to be sedating and knock me out - now it is not doing that.

 

Years ago, I was stable on Epilim/lithium alone - and back then, they were sedating.

 

Last year during a period of Epilim/lithium alone - I found that I was having insomnia and not sedation (hence why doctor prescribed Zyprexa 2.5).

 

Now, I am just confused as to what to do. You are right ChessieCat, I am not thinking clearly. and it's easier to say that now when my anxiety levels have died down - compared to this morning!

 

So which medication should it take taking earlier?

Epilim,lithium or Zyprexa?

 

I have not made detailed notes yet but here is the general pattern so far. Please forgive me for not having it in the correct format. I also need to update my signature properly but I have been putting it off because my memory is really bad right now.

 

20/10

 

8:00pm took all meds

11:00pm- tried to sleep - pressure in head, pain, insomnia, couldn't switch off

11:30pm - took 10mg Valium

12:00am - slept

 

21/10

10:00 am - wake up with huge anxiety and very jittery

10:00 am - 1pm - anxiety high, dysfunctional, depressed

 

3:00pm - anxiety much lower

---

 

I suspect that the anxiety today has a lot to do with taking Valium last night - rebound type anxiety.

 

I also tried to sleep on the couch during the day but felt my body just couldn't relax. It feels like my nervous system is constantly on edge.

 

Please forgive me if I am not doing everything right at the moment...I am a bit confused

[JanCarol]

Hey Rico - yes, the Valium is likely to cause rebound anxiety.  If you can avoid it in future it will be helpful.

 

I'm not the expert on this, but one of our mods has described the neuroleptics like Zyprexa as sedating and activating at the same time.  Like you can't motivate, but you are climbing out of your skin at the same time.  So this may also be akathisia - a side effect of your big withdrawal from zyprexa and epilim - and you will just have to wait it out - probably at least until after the holidays.  Read more about akathisia here:  Akathisia vs. Restlessness & Agitatation

 

Please, don't medicate your medication side effects, you will have to wait it out.

 

Meanwhile, please build up a toolkit of Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

I especially recommend http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10964-the-dr-claire-weekes-method-of-recovering-from-a-sensitized-nervous-system/ for separating your physical feelings of nervousness from your actual fears.

 

Here is a random link that just seemed to want to come to you:

Headstuck! Experiential Avoidance

 

Breathe, you can get through this.  Many people suffering from this akathisia get benefit from Jon Kabat-Zinn Body Scan

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.

 

I know you're struggling right now, but it's important that you understand what we're saying. I placed your drugs in a drug interaction checker, and I'm going to link you to the report. Please note that Epilim also goes by the name Depakote (divalproex sodium). 

 

You are dealing with a major drug interaction between Valium and Zyprexa. This is the interaction report - https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=918-484,1477-16548,862-441,1744-1113

 

 

Here are three things we need from you:

 

1. Please list your Valium use history. How long have you been on it and do you take it regularly or only as needed? 

 

2. Try taking the Zyprexa several hours before the other drugs. 

 

3. Write down the times you take your drugs and your symptoms, just like you did in your previous post.

 

Please do these three things and get back to us. 

 

[Rico]

Please help.

 

I only read the last reply to my post last night, so I took the medications together like usual.

 

As for valium history, I only used it the other night and didn't use last night. Prior to that, the last time I used was a few weeks' ago for 4-5 nights.

 

This is what happened last night.

 

7:00pm - I went out for dinner with my girlfriend and I was explaining to her my current dilemna with my psychiatrist, medications, and my current stressors. I am currently stressed out by trying to find a solution to my mental health problems.

 

8:00pm - Got home and took my medications (Zyprexa 2.5, Lithium 900mg, and Epilim 1000).

 

10:00pm - Went to sleep

 

3:00am - woke up and my head was tormented with thoughts and I couldn't sleep. I was very agitated. I just prayed and prayed.

 

4:00am - went back to sleep with severe pain in my head.

 

11:00am - took two panadols to relieve the pain

 

11:00am - 1:30  - lay in bed sleeping on/off having thoughts of suicide and very depressed and anxious about lots of things - especially about being sexually dysfunction (because it has gotten completely worse since the unsuccessful taper). After the last unsuccessful taper, I feel that something has been damaged.

 

1:30pm - hopped out of bed and feel shaky. I feel weakness in the left side of my body and feel like my nervous system is shaky. It is difficult even typing this.

 

Today, I will take the zyprexa earlier like Shep has suggested (around 5pm) and take the other two meds (Epilim and Lithium) at 8pm.

 

I am really scared. Ever since reinstating the dosages of drugs after the last unsuccessful taper, things have been getting worse.

 

I really feel that the Zyprexa especially, is doing a lot of harm. I don't know how I can handle a slow taper of this drug if it is causing this much damage.

 

I am a nervous wreck and my family is urging me to go to hospital. The problem is, I have tried all the other antipsychotics and have had adverse reactions to them too.

 

My psychiatrist has given up on me and my girlfriend is getting tired of all this too. I feel very alone. I really want to get better. I want to return to work one day. I fear that I will be staring at a wall in a mental institution. This year has been very bad. My memory is getting worse and worse.

 

Please help me.

[scallywag]

Rico, we're following your situation. Keep posting your log -- when you take the medication and when you have symptoms.

 

This is clearly distressing and uncomfortable. Please know that your CNS (central nervous system) will settle down.

[Rico]

Thank you scallywag.

 

What supplements should I take that might help?

 

I have magnesium at home and fish oil. How much should I take of each and when. I also take vitamin D in the morning.

 

The integrative medicine guy that I saw last week gave me a sheet with a whole lot of vitamins and supplements that a compounding chemist can put together. He said my pyrolles were too high (241) and that they should be around 10. After reading posts in this forum I seems like this is not the way to go.

 

So any suggestions regarding vitamins/supplements that could help would be great.

 

Thank you all for your support.

 

It is now 4:30pm and I am feeling a bit better, but do feel weakness in my left arm.

 

I am a bit stressed at the moment because my psychiatrist wants me to get a second opinion from the head of psychiatry in Australia. He will not approve of me getting off Zyprexa because he believes that I need two mood stabilisers and an antispaychotic for my "condition". Of course I disagree. This is coming from the same doctor who destabilised completely by given me Saphris after telling him I was distresssd about a personal situation. Up until then I was stable and happy on a low dose of Epilim and Lithium. When I told him about my distress over a relationship break up, he told me my medications are no longer working and that this new drug (he had a sample at the time from the pharmaceutical company) will replace both drugs. Within 4 days of taking Saphris, I was very sick and completely off the planet. I lost my job, my apartment and ended up in a public hospital.

 

I don't want to get a second opinion from anyone else but the dilemma I am in is that I am currently trying to claim income protection insurance for which this current doctor is signing off on progress reports. My fear is that a second opinion will result in two doctors agreeing that I need antipsychotics, which is not what I want. I simply can't work while on Zyprexa or any other antipsychotic. I am also sick of the physical side effects.

 

I feel very oppressed by my current psychiatrist and the side effects have caused me a lot of depression.

 

Anyway, I thought I would fill you in to what's happening in the background.

 

Thank you so much.

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.

 

I have magnesium at home and fish oil. How much should I take of each and when. I also take vitamin D in the morning.

 

Some of us become very, very sensitive to supplements due to our destabilized central nervous systems, so if you are sensitive now, the fewer the supplements, the better.  Fish oil and magnesium have the best profile for us, though, but starting on a small amount and one at a time is best.

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

If you're very sensitive to supplements, you can get Omega 3 (fish oil) by eating foods like fish and flaxseed. And if magnesium supplements cause stomach problems or other side effects, you can get it more gently by taking Epsom Salt baths. 

 

 

As for valium history, I only used it the other night and didn't use last night. Prior to that, the last time I used was a few weeks' ago for 4-5 nights.

 

Thanks for this information. I'm glad you don't have an extensive history with Valium, as it only takes two weeks for some people to become severely dependent on it. If possible, I would not take it anymore, especially with the possibility of the major interaction with Zyprexa. 

 

 

I really feel that the Zyprexa especially, is doing a lot of harm. I don't know how I can handle a slow taper of this drug if it is causing this much damage.

 

Let's see how you do with Zyprexa when it's taken earlier in the day, and removed from your other two drugs. 

 

 

 

I am a bit stressed at the moment because my psychiatrist wants me to get a second opinion from the head of psychiatry in Australia. He will not approve of me getting off Zyprexa because he believes that I need two mood stabilisers and an antispaychotic for my "condition". Of course I disagree.

 

 

Rico, I have a very good feeling overall about your situation because you are settling into the forum now, answering questions in the way we need, and really analyzing your situation. Do you have a "condition"? From what you're describing, you have been iatrogenically harmed by your medications. This is a very real condition caused by these kinds of neuro toxic drugs. 

 

But with a careful taper and some non-drug coping skills, you can come out of this and go onto have a great life. It's not going to be easy, but you can definitely do this. 

 

Today, I will take the zyprexa earlier like Shep has suggested (around 5pm) and take the other two meds (Epilim and Lithium) at 8pm.

 

Excellent. Please give an update on how this goes. It may take several days for your CNS to settle into this new pattern, so please don't panic if you don't get good results right away. 

 

Tip:  You may want to avoid making changes in supplement use while you're making these kinds of drug changes, as it will make it difficult to know what is causing which symptom. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[Altostrata]

Rico, I think this suggestion from Shep is a good one:

 

Rico, one tip:  You may try taking one of the "brakes" earlier in the day. Do you know which drug is the least sedating? If there is a paradoxical reaction going on, this may help with sleep.

 

You are taking 3 "brakes" at once. The nervous systems struggles against this, that's the "paradoxical" reaction: Your own nervous system keeps you awake because it's being oversuppressed.

 

Which of the 3 "brakes" is the least sedating? You might move that ONE drug earlier in the day, not all your drugs.

 

As far as dealing with psychiatrists is concerned, are you bound by legal judgment to be under psychiatric care? If not, you can choose not to see a psychiatrist. Any doctor can prescribe these drugs, it doesn't have to be a psychiatrist.

 

As your "bipolar" diagnosis is questionable, it's possible you don't need this drug cocktail at all. The Zyprexa is certainly causing adverse health effects. Are you getting kidney function tests regularly, following the lithium?

 

You might look for a good psychotherapist to help you with your anxiety.

[Rico]

Thanks Shep and Alto.

 

Here is what happened yesterday following from my previous post

 

22/10

 

4:30pm - I felt slightly better going to girlfriend house

 

5;00pm - took the 2.5 mg Zyprexa and became very slow and depresssed.

 

8:00pm - took the Epilim 1000mg and lithium 900mg and also became very slow and depresssed

 

10pm- took one magnesium tablet and went to sleep

 

I fell asleep and remember at some stage during my sleep I felt a little better, but I stayed in bed.

 

23/10 (today)

 

1:30 pm - woke up very depressed, groggy and feeling very mentally sick and slow.

 

I am convinced that all these medications are making me sick and I just can't cope anymore feeling like this everyday.

 

Alto, my dilemma with the current psychiatrist is that I currently have an income protection insurance claim for which he has done the paperwork and needs to do a progress report in December. He is the one who has put me on these drugs and now says that he can't do anything for me and wants me to get a second opinion. This stresses me because I don't want to be obliged to take medications for the purposes of getting income protection insurance.

 

There is a psychiatrist I can see in January who is more understanding, but I am not sure what to do until then.

 

I am suffering everyday from these drugs.

 

Thank you for all your help and support.

[nz11]

 current psychiatrist .... is the one who has put me on these drugs and now says that he can't do anything for me and wants me to get a second opinion.

 

Sums these drug dealers up really doesnt it they are completely clueless but they sure know how to side step responsibility.

 

There is a psychiatrist I can see in January who is more understanding, but I am not sure what to do until then.

I would doubt  these people understand anything about wdl...if it is so that he is understanding then i can tell you now he wont have a clue how to solve this apart from doubling the dose.

[Shep]

Rico,

 

I'm reading over the previous update you gave when you took all of your meds at one time and you had a horrible night, including thoughts of suicide and needing to take drugs for a severe headache.

 

And last night it looks like you slept from 10 pm until 1:30 pm the next day. Is this correct?

 

If so, it sounds like you had a much better night by moving the Zyprexa back a few hours (and not taking any Valium). What do you think? 

 

 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

You are right - and thank you for that suggestion.

 

Moving the Zyprexa back did help. I do find though that after I take the Zyprexa, I am zoned out. And when o take the Epilim and Lithiim, I become slow and depressed. It is not easy falling asleep in that state.

 

There are other psychological things going on too at the moment that are not making things easy. I don't want to blame everything on the medications.

 

I do however, want to be off the Zyprexa because of the weight gain issues. In saying that, the Epilim and Lithium are quite depressing too.

 

I am a bit overwhelmed and confused and my tolerance for stress is quite low. I also have a lot of fear - is recovery even possible for me? Will I end up in hospital if I get off medications? How long can i put up with this?

 

I have a lot of regrets too. At one stage earlier this year, I was discharged from a hospital on lithium alone (1500mg) and I felt good. I then thought I didn't need it and stopped it abruptly. I have been to hospital several times this year and it pains me to say that I have learnt the hard way.

 

I am lying in bed now regretting lots of things from this year that have affected my health, my relationship, my job and finances. It is quite depresssing, and I wanted to share that with you so that my current state is not purely attributed to medication side effects.

 

I wish I could have done things differently this year. It is so hard to accept the mess that I have created for myself. So hard.

[Shep]

I am lying in bed now regretting lots of things from this year that have affected my health, my relationship, my job and finances. It is quite depresssing, and I wanted to share that with you so that my current state is not purely attributed to medication side effects.

I wish I could have done things differently this year. It is so hard to accept the mess that I have created for myself. So hard. 

 

 

These things - loss of health, relationship, job, finances, etc - are the collateral damage of these toxic drugs. Many of us, myself included, have dealt with this. But we're alive, and we're getting informed and educated so we can find a way to come off these drugs and heal. 

 

You didn't create this mess, Rico, it was something that was done to you.  But you do have to survive it. And you will. 

 

One thing that I keep in mind when I'm having the kind of thoughts you're having is:  We know the truth about these drugs, which puts us far ahead of the rest of the population. Tens of millions of people are on these drugs. Many die young on them, having no knowledge that it was the drugs that slowly destroyed them.

 

But you know now.  There's a member here named Vigor who has this quote in his signature:

 

"I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better."  - Maya Angelou

 

I found that quote to be very helpful to give us a bit of perspective. 

 

You were on these drugs for 18 years, which is a long time. I was on them for 30, but I'm off now and dealing with the windows and waves of the recovery process. In some glimpses of healing, I feel calm and at peace, something that I haven't felt in decades. 

 

So I do know it's possible to get off these drugs and heal.

 

My advice is to find some non-drug coping skills that "speak" to you, such as mindfulness, gentle yoga, Tai Chi, or if nothing else works, distraction with music or video games. Whatever gets you through these long days and nights. 

 

Keep posting updates. It's so good to know that moving the Zyprexa gave you some relief. 

 

[Altostrata]

Rico, please continue to keep notes. It will take at least 4 days for your nervous system to get used to the change in drug schedule.

 

Were you "slow" between 5 p.m. and 8 p.m. or did the effect of the Zyprexa lift?

[Rico]

Thanks Shep, I really hope you are right.

 

The last time I came off drugs, I ended up in hospital. Maybe it was too quick back then or I wasn't ready, I don't know. I have so much fear inside of me regarding getting off medications because that's all I have known.

 

I am quite an anxious person by nature and I don't handle stress too easily. I believe that the drugs have stopped me from developing coping skills that other normal people develop. My psychiatrist once said "Zyprexa will protect you from stress" and "you will need it for life until something better comes along". He ruined me.

[Shep]

The last time I came off drugs, I ended up in hospital. Maybe it was too quick back then or I wasn't ready, I don't know. I have so much fear inside of me regarding getting off medications because that's all I have known.

 

In a previous post, you mentioned stopping 1500 mg of lithium abruptly. Yes, that was definitely too quick. But you know better now, so you'll do better now. It won't be like the last time if you take it slow and careful, getting good advice here. I hope that helps settle some of the fear.

 

I am quite an anxious person by nature and I don't handle stress too easily. I believe that the drugs have stopped me from developing coping skills that other normal people develop. My psychiatrist once said "Zyprexa will protect you from stress" and "you will need it for life until something better comes along". He ruined me. 

 

From my own experience, having been drugged massively at 17, continuing on for 30 years, and from the people I've met on this journey with similar experiences, we don't come out of this the same way we came in. We grow enormously, developing all sorts of skills and abilities to handle life off drugs. 

 

Grab hold of some of the non-drug coping skills like mindfulness as if it were a life raft in this dark ocean. And use it to get you through this. Withdrawal gives us so many opportunities to practice mindfulness, many of us come out of this as gurus. 

 

No offense to your psychiatrist, but he sounds quite incompetent - Zyprexa is notorious for causing more harm than good. 

 

But he didn't ruin you, so much as set you on the wrong path. But you'll find your way back. 

 

Please also see Alto's question above. She's trying to assess your reaction to Zyprexa. 

 

Take care, Rico. I hope you have a better night.

[Rico]

Hi Alto and Shep,

 

Firstly, thank you for all your help, it is much appreciated.

 

When I take the Zyprexa at 5pm I find that I sort of zone out a bit, a bit slower but settled.

 

When I take the Epilim and Lithium though at 8pm, along with 1 tablet of Magnesium (150mg)...I feel like absolute crap. I feel mentally sick i.e. depressed, slow, and just awful.

 

Here is an update for the last night and today

 

5:00pm - took 2.5mg Zyprexa..felt slow, settled, zoned out a bit

 

8:00pm - took lithium (900mg) and Epilim (1000mg) and Magnesium (150mg) felt quite depressed and slow, and it is was difficult to get to sleep.

 

10:00pm - went to sleep very depressed and just mentally sick..it's an awful feeling.

 

___

 

6:00 am - woke up depressed, tired, fatigued

 

7:00 am - spoke to my girlfriend over the phone who is very supportive.

 

8:00 am - tried to have a lie down on the couch to go back to sleep, but when I closed my eyes, I became severely depressed and felt like my head weighed a tonne.

 

9:00 am - I had some breakfast and I spoke to my girlfriend again and expressed my anger towards my psychiatrist for putting me on zyprexa - especially since he was aware of how much I struggled with it last year. I am especially angry at how it has affected me physically (my gynecomastia is worse) and sexual functioning non-existent.

 

10:30am - I forced myself to get out of the house to visit my girlfriend at work, and noticed how restless I am. I can't even close my eyes to get some peace.

 

3:00pm - I went to the cathedral in the city to pray and became really depressed. As I was holding my head in prayer, my whole body was moving / vibrating - especially my arms.

               I first noticed this side effect when I started on 10mg - I was moving in bed and certain muscles would twich, like the back of my neck.

 

3:30pm - I walked back to see my girlfriend at work, and I felt very sick - fatigued, depressed, distressed, and struggling to talk properly, I had some water and I think that helped a little, but the ride home on the train was very long. I envied the person next to me who just closed his eyes and slept. I couldn't close my eyes, my mind just felt too agitated - just no piece at all. I have smoked a lot of cigarettes today, and I was thinking maybe the nicotine is making me buzz too much. I was also thinking is this an akasthisa symptom of Zyprexa?

 

I am home now and have taken the zyprexa.

 

I desperately want to come off these drugs, especially the zyprexa.

 

I keep thinking that maybe if I go to a private hospital, I will be able to explain to them what's going on and they can take me off quicker...but I am guessing that the response from here would be that this is not a good idea.

 

I have tried mindfulness before, but I find it hard...everytime I close my eyes, it feels like my brain is buzzing.

 

Boy, this is really hard. However, I think there is a slight improvement since moving the zyrexa as Shep kindly suggested. My memory is really poor.

 

I am craving one of those nice relaxing sleeps. I have not had one of those in a long time.

 

Have these drugs permanently damaged me? Is there any way I can get off them faster?

 

Thank you

[Rico]

Hi.

 

I am not well at all.

 

5:00pm - took 2.5mg of Zyprexa and zoned out, felt pressure in my brain, was slow, found talking difficult. My brain felt numb

 

8:00pm took the lithium and Epilim and magnesium

 

9:00pm lay in bed trying to sleep, was very agitated and felt mentally sick. I just prayed and prayed and finally slept

 

7:20 - woke up and my frontal lobe is shaking. The Zyprexa is killing my brain. The top part of my brain is shaking near my eyebrows.

 

I first experienced this pressure in my brain when the doctor gave me 10mg of Zyprexa. I couldn't sleep or talk it was horrible.

 

It feels like no one is believing me that the Zyprexa and these medications are causing me more and more damage in a daily basis.

 

I can't handle anymore of this, as I was waking up, I was feeling disabled mentally. Last week, I woke up and couldn't even talk. The medications are disabling me.

 

I can't handle this

[Shep]

Hi, Rico. 

 

I do know how you feel because I had a similar feeling in my brain during my benzo withdrawal, so this is something we do believe happens. You are definitely not alone with these types of symptoms. 

 

You had a Valium a few nights ago, and Valium's active metabolite can last as long as 200 hours, so you may also be dealing with that. 

 

How is your sleep quality? Are you sleeping all night or is the shakey brain symptom keeping you up?

 

 

 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

I am sleeping all night but it is not a good sleep. I wake up awful.

 

 

Rico

[Rico]

Given that I am feeling so crap from these medications - is a faster taper possible?

 

I wake up every morning feeling awful, I go to bed feeling awful and when I take the Zyprexa, I feel very slow and zoned out.

 

These drugs are making me sick. How can a 10% per month taper help when I am this sick?

 

Are there any alternatives or is it just a matter of sucking it up?

 

I am very depressed and frustrated right now.

[nz11]

But Rico you have already tried a fast taper and had to updose back to the original right?

 

If you think you are sick now my feeling is if you do a fast taper it will take you to a whole new level of 'sick' .

It can take several months for people to stabilize after an updose from a too fast rush for the exit door but you only, if i am correct, did the updose recently on the 10th october right?

 

If anything from your current recent experience and past long term psychotropic drug exposure history and from what i have observed in my limited time of hanging out in this site and prior site i would say you would be putting your life in serious danger if you were to taper fast.

All things being equal you would do well to continue to hold and taper at 5% or less when that time comes imo.

 

Hang in there

nz11

[Rico]

Hi NZ11, thank you for your reply. I agree with you. I am just sick of feeling like crap every day. When I take the Zyprexa 2.5 at 5pm, I feel like crap. When I take the Epilim and Lithium at 8pm, I feel like crap also.

 

Here's my update for yesterday / today:

 

5:00pm - took the Zyprexa 2.5, zoned out, felt slow, felt like it was difficult to talk

 

8:00pm - took Epilim 1000, lithium 900

 

8:30 - went to sleep feeling awful, very agitated

 

Today:

 

7:00 am - woke up severely depressed and agitated

 

7:00 - 10:00 - very depressed and stressed out

 

2:00pm - forced myself to go to a social drumming group, and noticed that the left side of my brain was sore and my left eye tired and heavy.

 

4:00 - I left the drumming early, couldn't do it, very depresssed, tired and felt pressure in my head, especially the left side.

 

5:00pm - took the 2.5mg Zyprexa and my brain became very agitated and felt pressure in my head and my left eye feels lazy /sore.

 

I felt like absolute crap - zonked out / slow and the dull feeling in my head made me very agitated.

 

6:30 - had dinner with my girlfriend, who is an absolute angel and the agitation / pressure in brain - especially frontal lobe part was very bad.

 

I feel like I am getting worse and that the Zyprexa is causing this neurological drama.

 

8:00 - took lithium 900 and Epilim 1000 and 150 tablet of magnesium.

 

I feel awful and very depressed. I am worried that I have a more serious brain issue but too scared to go to emergency in case I end up in a public psych ward - which has been very traumatic for me in the past.

 

Does anyone know what is going on here? Do I need to check in to a private hospital? I don't want to go to one and neither does my partner, but this suffering is getting quite bad.

 

I am generally very tired, depressed, fatigued, and worried about this sensation in the left part of my head, especially my left eye which feels very droopy and heavy).

 

I was thinking of moving the Zyprexa back to 8:00pm to avoid this awfulness and just cop it all at night...any suggestions.

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.

 

It can take 4 days to a week for your CNS to register a change.  Even though you're struggling, you still sound better than you did 3 days ago when you wrote this post. 

 

What do you think? 

 

 

[Rico]

Thanks Shep,

 

Moving the Zyprexa has helped compared to before. However, this is what's happening:

 

When I take the Zyprexa, I feel mentally agitated, zoned out, and slow. Zyprexa never used to do this to me. I have gone blue in the face trying to tell others around me that Zyprexa is not working the way it used to in the past. I remember the day that I took the first 10mg tablet of Zyprexa after not having taken it for a while, and I felt an immense pressure in my head - especially the frontal lobe, and I couldn't even close my eyes to sleep. I could barely talk and it was a horrible experience.

 

Now, when I take the 2.5, the same thing is happening but on a smaller scale. And now that I have moved it earlier than the other two meds, the effect is very noticeable.

 

Also, after I take the Epilim and Lithium medications, I find it difficult to sleep. I am stressed out thinking about this dilemma.

 

Right now I feel very worn out and tied.

[vjekob]

Rico, I'm helping a family member who was put on an Olanzapine based ( Zyprexa like) drug before
I had any information about it's dangers and lack of approval from part of the medical/psychiatric community
who are saying that these drugs are not effective and are at the same time very dangerous.
I took things into my own hands and did a few quick tapers after which wd symptoms set in. This settled and
after finding this forum I'm continuing tapering slowly with results improving. I write you to give you hope.
We lie to the psychiatrist and just keep reducing the drug.

 

From what you write, I feel you have the will and strength to get through it and get off the drugs.
My suggestions:
- looks like your girlfriend is very supportive - find strength in her, prayer and whatever
gives you purpose at this time
- don't make any hasty changes to the meds. Follow what the knowledgeable members
of the forum suggest.  Do NOT increase the drug dosage - stick out the wd symptoms
(the drugs are not helping you - they are just masking the problem). I am also questioning
whether the initial psychiatric diagnosis was correct.

-For tapering, we follow the 10% rule , but taper linearly (as described somewhere in this forum)
instead of abrupt 10% drops (eg I planned 10% drops over 10 days  i.e. 1% drop every day-  this turned out
to be 1mg of tablet weight (.03mg Olanzapine)-  I bought a 3 digit scale and cut/ scrape the tablet each day).
If things get worse (wd symproms), stop on a particular dosage for a couple of days till things stabilize.

-I only have experience with one drug, so don't have a clue of the effects of each of the drugs in the mix of drugs you are taking
so the members will give an idea which one of your drugs to target first for tapering i.e. make the
tapering plan.

 

This is not going to be easy but you can do it especially with the help of loved ones.

[Rico]

Thank you so much vjekob.

 

I am currently on 2.5mg of Zyprexa, which I reainatated from 1.25 after a fast taper went shaped.

 

I am just waiting for myself to settle down before starting another taper (as advised on this forum).

 

My cognitive abilities have declined a lot this year, especially since the Zyprexa.

 

How long will it take to come off Zyprexa?

 

Will my brain come back afterwards?

 

Thank you