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Jams: I hope to survive Remeron!


Jams

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Hello.  I've heard many good things about this site.  I'm finding Remeron to be a tricky little devil.  I tapered from 7.5 down to 5.0 mg too quick...like 3 weeks!  I thought I could sail off it like I did Valium and Trazadone, but not so.  I'm taking a break for a week or two so I can stabilize.  I generally stabilize rather quickly, but this one took more time.  I have friends who are suffering from protracted w/d after decent tapers from Remeron, so I'd like to avoid the same.  

 

Has anyone crossed from Remeron to Prozac since the latter has a longer half-life and might be easier to taper from??  I haven't found any equivalency tables, so I'm not sure how to exchange them properly.  I'd like to know how to do that.  If it's recommended that I taper the Remeron, is there a file where I can find helpful tips to do it safely?

 

Thank you in advance!!!

 

Edited by scallywag
tags added

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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Welcome

I think this is what you are wanting to read

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

You may have got off 'no worries' in the past but remember this when it comes to wdl of psychotropic drugs past performance is no predictor of future performance.

 

7.5mg of remeron has an approx prozac dose equiv of 6mg

5.0mg ....remeron.........................prozac...................of 4mg

 

Im not a fan of prozac bridges so i'll leave that to others to explain.

 

nz11

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jams and welcome to SA.

 

There is lots of excellent information here on this site and I'll give you some links to check out.  To search the site use a search engine and type in survivingantidepressants.org + topic.

 

What are your current symptoms since your drop from 7.5 to 5?

 

It will be helpful if you would add dates to your signature so that we can see when you made your drug changes.  Thank you.

 

You can ask questions here in your Intro/Update topic and journal your progress.  Click "Follow" top right and you will be notified when someone responds.

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Symptoms Checklist

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)


The Prozac switch or "bridging" with Prozac

 

These helped me to understand SA's recommended 10% taper of the previous dose followed by a holding period of at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug:

 

Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Thank you for your very informative replies, ChessieCat and nz11!

 

My main symptoms are heightened insomnia, tinnitus, and anxiety, so falling asleep is a real challenge.  I've come to dread nighttime. but I also have low-level anxiety a good part of the day.  Brain fog & fatigue are givens.  I'm dogged by fear & worry.  

 

What does SA mean?  

 

I researched Prozac yesterday and discovered it's more stimulating than sedating.  Since I've had insomnia for almost 30 years, that might not be a good fit.  What do you think?  I'll research your links today/tomorrow.  Thanks again!!!

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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Hi Jams. SA - Surviving Antidepressants. The name of this site .  :)

As you have tapered too fast , It is a great idea to stop and stabilize for a while , Take a break / regroup / read / learn and then perhaps gently taper off. Switching drugs is not a great idea and Prozac is stimulating so sleep being an issue would be compromised.

 

Remeron is sedating so best to stick with that and then slowly taper when you're feeling stable.

There is a lot of information here , so have a read around and then come back with any other questions/ concerns or thoughts.

Ali

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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I've been reading the mountains of great info' on SA and learning a TON!  Thank you!  I've discovered that I've been tapering A/D's all wrong.  It was okay with Trazadone (dropped .1 mg/day), but NOT with Remeron.  On day five of a hold after tapering too fast (7.5 - 5 mg in 3 weeks).  Have low level anxiety off and on during the day.  Tension and anxiety build in the late afternoon so that I have a terrible time falling sleep!  Wonder if that's Interdose w/d or a result of dropping too much too fast.  I'm guessing the latter.

 

Is there another sedative A/D that I can use as a bridge or cross to other than Prozac that someone said is too stimulating?  

 

I notice increased Tinnitus in the evening; sounds like a screeching banshee in my ears!  Any tips for that?

 

I've used Kavinace Ultra PM nightly for sleep; also herbal tinctures and CBD/THC combo and antihistamines (alternate Unisom/Vistaril).  It might seem like too much, but I've had insomnia for nearly 30 years, and w/d doesn't make it any easier.  I plan to taper EVERYTHING.  The Kavinace has helped immensely the past few years, and seems to "play well" with others, although it does have 5HTP.  Any worries with that (serotonin syndrome).  I don't think so but wanted to make sure.

 

Thank you for helping me out! 

 

 

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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Hi Jams,

Mitrazapine is a tricky customer.

I have been tappering off Mirtazapine for almost 2 years.

Soltab 15mg tablets are the easiest way to get off Mirtazapine.

You can make your own liquid Mitrazapine using Soltab tablets.

Dissolve 15mg tablet in 15mls of water.

Draw out with a syringe the amount that you need.

I also chrashed when I got down to 5mg.

Hold the current dose that you are on until you feel stable.

I gave my self a break from tappering for about 5 months.

You will get there, it might take a while.

Best of luck, Hopefull.

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(

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Hi Jams,

Mitrazapine is a tricky customer.

I have been tappering off Mirtazapine for almost 2 years.

Soltab 15mg tablets are the easiest way to get off Mirtazapine.

You can make your own liquid Mitrazapine using Soltab tablets.

Dissolve 15mg tablet in 15mls of water.

Draw out with a syringe the amount that you need.

I also chrashed when I got down to 5mg.

Hold the current dose that you are on until you feel stable.

I gave my self a break from tappering for about 5 months.

You will get there, it might take a while.

Best of luck, Hopefull.

 

THANK YOU for your kind reply, Hopeful.  I am using Soltabs to taper Remeron just as you described.  It's good to know I'm not the only one tapering this way!  You're making much bigger drops than I am comfortable with, but I understand why.  This stuff is even worse than Klonopin!  I have friends in protracted withdrawal after reasonable tapers from Rem, so I'm taking it extra slow. I'm holding now until stable.  Do you feel any w/d symptoms when you're stable?  

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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Hello.

 

I'm still learning about antidepressants...Remeron in particular.  I've held at 5 mg Remeron for TEN days now, having done a Benzo-like micro taper (duh) from 7.5 mg in less than 3 weeks (I didn't know then that you couldn't do that with A/D's!)  As a result, I have low-level anxiety and shaking that begins in the morning and builds after lunch for some reason until it's out of control at bedtime, making it almost impossible to fall asleep.

 

I wondered if splitting the dose into two and taking a third or half during the day and the rest at bed might alleviate symptoms (or worsen them) OR would doing another update be a better option (already updosed a bit from 4.9 back to 5).  I hate to, but it's more important that I finish well.  

 

I hope and pray that one mistake hasn't put me in permanent protracted w/d as others I've known have experienced.

 

Thank you for your feedback.  

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jams,

 

I've moved the new topic/post you created into your Intro/Update topic.  Each member has 1 Intro/Update topic where they can ask questions about their individual situation.

 

I'm checking with the other mods for their opinions about splitting your dose.

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Administrator

Welcome, Jams.

 

Are you taking Remeron for sleep? Prozac is not a good substitute for this purpose.

 

As you went too low on Remeron too fast and you haven't been doing better over 10 days, you might updose a bit, to 7.5mg for example, and give it a week to see if that helps. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

Kavinace contains a benzo-like drug called phenibut. Please go to our Symptoms and Self-care forum http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/and use search to read our discussions about it.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks for making the decision clear...no Prozac.  

 

I am aware of the downside to Kavinace Ultra PM, but I appreciate your "heads-up" about it.  I didn't discover its addictive nature until I'd been using it for a year.  I decided the benefits outweighed the risks and planned to taper it last.  It's too bad insomniacs have few choices for better zzz's.

 

I feel somewhat better now on day 11, so maybe I can hold until stable.  How much better should I feel??

 

Thanks again.  Sure am glad to be here.

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jams,

 

Every time I type your name I type James instead of Jams (and I just did it then too!).

 

That's good that you are starting to feel a bit of improvement.  It's a good idea to keep daily notes of your symptoms (improvement and worsening or staying the same) on paper so that you can see if there is any pattern.

 

Healing comes in windows and waves:  Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization.  It's not so much about "How much better I should feel?" but whether you are feeling improvement/s and whether you can live with the worst symptom/s you have.

 

You might find suggestions here helpful:  Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

I hope you continue to feel improvement.

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator

Hey Jams - 

 

sleep aids don't really produce real sleep, anyway.  Not like natural sleep.

 

Please don't split your Remeron.  I agree with Alto, you've cut too fast, just go back to the 7.5 and hold there for awhile.

 

At that level, the Remeron is more of a sleep aid than antidepressant.  (the lower the dose, the drowsier it makes you!).  Additionally, it has a 20-30 hour half life, so I think that splitting your dose will not be helpful.  Split doses are trickier to taper, too.

 

 

How much better should I feel??

 

 

Better.  That's the only word I can use.  Not as bad as before.  You probably will never eliminate all the symptoms (and new ones may appear), but if they are enough for your to function, eat, sleep, work - then that is the level of improvement we are hoping for.  

 

I hope you are feeling better soon.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Thank you for your suggestions, ChessieCat and JanCarol.  I'm still holding at 5 mg, and the only major symptom left is a clenched tummy.    Weird symptom.  Anything I can do to relax it??  I've heard that's a common symptom of a Remeron taper.  

I also continue to have trouble falling asleep, but my husband helps calm me to sleep with gentle foot/calf rubs and quiet Bible reading.  So I've decided just to stay at 5 mg another week or two and then make another small run at it.

 

I won't split the dose, JanCarol.  Thank you!  ChessieCat, you can call me James any time...makes more sense than Jams!  Haha!  I'll definitely look at the Emotional Symptom discussion!  I don't mind some of the physical stuff, but the mental/emotional junk scares me silly!!

 

Now for a strange question.  Any opinions on bee venom as a remedy for symptoms during w/d??  I ran across it yesterday.  One gal said most of her 60 w/d symptoms VANISHED while on the venom.  From what I understand, it's quite effective for countering Lyme disease, which is rampant among the Benzo Boards.  Sounds scary - using a poison - but so does Remeron!  I won't do anything stupid, but I wanted to investigate all avenues of healing.

 

Thanks again!  So grateful!!!

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It's lovely that your husband is willing to assist you to fall asleep.  That is very supportive.

 

As for the bee venom.  Mmmm.  If you are feeling reasonable (as in what BrassMonkey calls withdrawal normal) why would you consider trying something that might cause you to feel even worse?  Of course it may work but I wouldn't want to take the risk.

 

"One gal said most of her 60 w/d symptoms VANISHED while on the venom"

 

My first thought on this was 60 w/d symptoms???  Yerright.  Sorry a bit cynical but my thought is that it sounds like in her case she may have propagated many of the symptoms in her own mind so the bee venom was placebo.

 

One of the things about this withdrawal/tapering journey is that we feel that we need to be doing something.  In many/most instances we don't need to be doing anything except accepting, keeping stress to a minimum, taking care of ourselves and giving our brain time to do what it needs to do to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

My belief is that stress diverts the brain's attention away from adapting and as a result slows the recovery process.

 

James doesn't make more sense to me especially as I've just realised that you are a lady. :blush:

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

I have a couple of friends either stuck on Remeron or having protracted w/d after a nice long, slow taper from the same.  So I searched for anything that might alleviate symptoms during my taper...ergo, bee venom.  I probably won't chance it because I think it can cause die off.  Sure don't need that.  

 

Also, I'm used to micro-tapering benzos on a daily basis, so I feel a need to DO something during these long stretches of waiting to stabilize on Remeron.  Plus, I'm much shakier, anxious, and wiped out on AD's.  Real different.  Neither is better; just different.

 

Is there something I can do or take to relax the knot in my tummy?  Almost as painful as leg cramps.  Common symptom?  Cause?Heals during holds?  Wonder if it has something to do with a vitamin/mineral deficiency.  I eat well but take very few supplements (except for sleep), so I might need B's and more magnesium.  What do you think?

 

Yesterday the realization hit me that after almost 30 years of insomnia including the last 7 years of exhausting withdrawal, I'm in the middle of the worst taper yet.  So I had a meltdown - crying, throwing things, feeling deep anger and despair.  I'll be 69 in February, and I so very much want some years of happiness with my husband before my time comes.  I'm worried that withdrawing from Remeron might take as long as my Klonopin taper - 3 1/2 years - and I doubt I have enough stamina to endure much more.  So today, after yesterday's trauma, I feel like an old trash heap with constant nagging anxiety and shakiness.  Will have to keep a lid on those freak-outs because they really DO ME IN!  I'll need to spend some time on the Emotional Coping Tips section.  God help me!

 

BTW, I love your sense of humor.  I usually have one...just not today. 

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jams (yay!!! I got it right first time)

 

You may start to feel improvement as your dose gets lower if you taper carefully.

 

There are many existing topics on various withdrawal symptoms.  I use Google and type in survivingantidepressants + topic.  So as an example:  anger, supplements.

 

You might find this one interesting:  Neuro Emotions

 

As for supplements the only ones that SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil

 

Many members find B vitamins activating.  Especially B6.  If you wish to try anything, you should start one at a time, keep it separate from a taper drop, and try a small amount and build up.  Taking a complex of anything means that if you have an issue, it is difficult to work out what has caused it.

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Thanks again, Chessie.  I read through the Neuro Emotions thread and related to nearly everything said.  Made a copy of Healing's intro to the topic to re-read, as it will remind me to reject NEURO emotions as opposed to REAL ones.

 

I have been unable to take B vitamins and large doses of magnesium.  Someone mentioned sipping a magnesium solution, and that's what I've done all along...sip water with 2-3 drops of trace minerals (mostly magnesium chloride).  Must be careful of that one though as it can be quite cleansing.

 

Well, it's finally become clear that I need to up-dose again.  Had a miserable ANXIETY-laden night with little sleep and a boatload of hallucinations and neuro emotions, this after a two week hold on my Remeron taper.  Feeling VERY shaky and weak today with constant low-level, nagging anxiety.  I thought I'd feel at least somewhat better by now, but not so.  VERY different from Benzos!!  Took another look at my notes and realized that I had tapered from 7.5 to 4.9 in 72 days with various holds and up-doses to see me through.  I mentioned 3 weeks before, but I stayed at it, off and on, for more than 2 months total.  Might that explain the intensity of my symptoms now?  I felt so good the first couple of weeks, and it all seemed so easy.  With Benzos, I felt each change quicker, within 3 days or so.  What an eye-opener this is!  

 

So I assume I need to do more than a small up-dose, maybe to 6 mg or all the way back to 7.5.  All this tapering and suffering for naught; as usual, I'm learning the HARD way.  After my up-dose, how long should I wait?  I'm thinking longer than 2 weeks to really recover so that any future attempts will be successful.  Will I reach tolerance w/d after weeks of holding as with some Benzos?  Then if I'm able, I'll reduce at a much slower pace, cutting 2/5% to 5% with at least 2 weeks between cuts. Does that sound about right?

 

I appreciated what you said here:

 

 

 

One of the things about this withdrawal/tapering journey is that we feel that we need to be doing something.  In many/most instances we don't need to be doing anything except accepting, keeping stress to a minimum, taking care of ourselves and giving our brain time to do what it needs to do to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

 

 

 I tend to push myself in everything...work, perFECT, worry, etc., so I need to be kinder to myself as you said above:  accept, de-stress, and take better care of myself.  Thank you!

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jams,

 

Okay, I've just seen Alto's post #11 above and this is what she wrote:

 

"As you went too low on Remeron too fast and you haven't been doing better over 10 days, you might updose a bit, to 7.5mg for example, and give it a week to see if that helps."

 

That was on 19th August and it's now 23rd so an additional 4 days.  You might want to try a bit less than 7.5 mg.

 

From what I understand from the benzo mods, there is a difference in AD and benzo withdrawal.

 

"After my up-dose, how long should I wait?  I'm thinking longer than 2 weeks to really recover so that any future attempts will be successful."

 

With AD tapering there is no calendar to work by.  SA recommends a minimum 4 week hold after a regular tapering drop.  You may need to hold even longer to allow you CNS to stabilise after the fast trazadone taper and the too quick dropping of remeron.  You will need to listen to your body.  Once your symptoms have settled then hold for about 2 more weeks before doing commencing a slow taper.  Now to accept and be patient.

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Hi Jams,

 

Sorry to hear that you are not doing that well.

Based on my own experience, I stabilized on 5mg two months after the crash.

Every one is different.

Once I stabilized I gave my self a long break, almost 5 months.

This really helped me.

Even when you are stable you still experience some wds but not as intense.

When you are getting off this crap, you will experience wds, there is no way around it. Tappering slowly reduces the severity of the WDS, but it does not make the WDS symptoms dissappear.

The symptoms are more bearable and it allows you to function.

Hang in there, it does get better.

We all learn the hard way.

I have found supplements to be waste of time.

Bee venom suppliment might sting you, if I was you, I would not go there.

You are lucky to have a carring husband that even rubs your feet. :) I wish Lol! :)

Everything eventually comes to an end, and so will this.

Chin up and keep marching forward.

Best wishes to you, Hopefull. :)

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(

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Hello Hopefull,  

 

Thank you so MUCH for stopping by to encourage me!  I appreciate the time you took to read and respond with honesty and compassion.  

 

I up-dosed from 5-6 mg Remeron a couple of days ago (5 mg wasn't enough), and I'm already feeling better!  I plan to hold for a while...not sure how long, but long enough to feel more rested and confident.  Thanks for describing what "stability" is like.  And I loved this sentence: 

 

We all learn the hard way.
 

I might add, "some more than others" LOL

 

In the last line of your med history, you said that you reduced from 5 mg to 4.5 mg.  Did you cut .5 all at once or over time?  I'm thinking of cutting only 2.5% every 2-3 weeks or more.  Does that sound okay?  

 

Thanks again!!! 

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jams,

 

Really glad you are feeling the benefit of updosing.

 

So that your signature remains current could you please put in dates and doses so that we can see it at a glance and not have to read through your posts?  Thank you.

 

6 '16 - present: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg date, 6 mg date

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Thank you, ChessieCat, but after ONE good day, I'm feeling worse.  Same thing happened with my first up-dose 8/10/16...had a good day, then a huge uptick of anxiety, shakes, insomnia, etc.  I felt fine on this med until I tapered too fast, and now even after two up-doses, I feel about as bad on Remeron as my last weeks on Klonopin that landed me at the Center in FL.  I feel terrified no matter what I do, which makes me desperate.  You'll probably say nay, but I'm considering a small amount of Valium to assist my Remeron taper.  It helped me ease off the K and required only a few months to taper completely off.  Better than protracted w/d IF all goes well.  Yeah.   

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jams,

 

As you will see from my signature, I am a long term remeron survivor. My most useful quality is my capacity to do long holds and micro tapers. My aim is to limit the prospects of symptoms and doing nothing has been my best friend in that.

 

I would hold for a month. Give tapering a holiday. Forget about it. Implement everything you can to calm your nervous system and support sleep. I have found sleep hypnosis to be really useful, magnesium baths, some Qi gong.

 

My focus is on soothing the nervous system so it's in its best place, then I sneakily make a micro cut so it doesn't notice, hold again., focus on soothing, sneaky cut etc etc

 

All the best

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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I really appreciate your reply, Dalsaan!!!  As you know, it helps to hear from others so we can make informed decisions.

 

Hope you don't mind filling in some blanks.  I wondered what your original Mirt dose was and what kind of symptoms you had in March of 2014 after all the mistakes.  Intense?  Cuz mine sure are!  My BP has suddenly soared higher than it's ever been! I had to take a Propranolol to calm everything down today, but I'll only use it when symptoms are out of control like this.  

 

Any links for the sleep hypnosis?  I'll have to work up the courage to try a mag bath as some have said it detoxes them!  

 

Do you think the compounded form is better than mixing the Soltab in water and drawing from that??

 

Is it common to up-dose, feel better the next day, but EXTREMELY symptomatic after that?? Do I have protracted withdrawals if I'm still experiencing excessive symptoms after two weeks and two up-doses??

 

I've had trouble with acceptance and another long time frame, so holding is hard, but whatever it takes as I see so many racing to get off and suffering for years after!!

 

Thanks again!!!!!!  

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I really appreciate your reply, Dalsaan!!!  As you know, it helps to hear from others so we can make informed decisions.

 

Hope you don't mind filling in some blanks.  I wondered what your original Mirt dose was and what kind of symptoms you had in March of 2014 after all the mistakes.   My doses changed.  My highest dose was 45 mg

 

 

 Intense?  Yes but the key is not to invest too heavily in them and throw stuff at them.   That makes it hard to tell if its a withdrawal reaction, reaction to what you are doing, something else

 

Any links for the sleep hypnosis?  I use a sleep hypnosis app on my phone.   Which one you should use is a personal choice because if their voice or method isnt soothing it wont help.   If you have a smart phone look for some free sleep hypnosis apps on that.  alternatively search youtube and find one you like

 

Do you think the compounded form is better than mixing the Soltab in water and drawing from that??    I use it because its easier, not necessarily better

 

Is it common to up-dose, feel better the next day, but EXTREMELY symptomatic after that?? Do I have protracted withdrawals if I'm still experiencing excessive symptoms after two weeks and two up-doses??   No you don't have protracted withdrawal    I would wait 2-3 weeks after any change to see the outcome.   You need to adjust your timeframes.  Our nervous systems are long distance runners, not sprinters.   Making numerous changes over a short period of time is not a recipe for stability and it makes it harder to read what is happening

 

I've had trouble with acceptance and another long time frame, so holding is hard, but whatever it takes as I see so many racing to get off and suffering for years after!!   If you have trouble with acceptance and holding then the best advice I could possible give you is find a way to change that.   The other best bit of advice I can give you is dont throw pills at symptoms - throw time and gentle soothing instead.

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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Hi Jams,

You are most welcome.

Sorry I haven't updated my med history.

I am now down to 3.5mg of Mitrazapine.

Previously I was on 4 mg.

I cut 0.5 increments. I normally hold for 2 months and then I make a cut.

We are all different, so you have to work out what suits you the best.

Some people tolerate frequent cuts, but I don't. So I cut by 0.5. My next cut will be down to 3 mg.

Stay on 6mg for at least 6-8 weeks. Maybe even more, depending on how you are feeling.

Learning the hard way is not fun. Lol :)

Just be patient and everything will work out in the end. Best wishes, Hopefull.

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(

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Thank you both - Hopefull and Dalsaan!!  

 

I'll look for a sleep hypnosis app on my smart tv.  Not sure how to do that, but I love the idea!  Thank you so much, Dalsaan!

 

I may try something close to your taper rate, Hopefull.  Makes sense.  Thanks!

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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Day 10 of a hold following a too fast taper of Remeron from 7.5 to 4.9 over two months, including two up-doses and multiple holds.  Still feeling low-level anxiety/shaking off/on and extreme difficulty falling asleep with the main obstacle of FEAR...first the automatic kind at bedtime, then just a lot of fear of the fear!  I read the Claire Weekes articles on SA today, and they fit me to a T.  Not sure how to "accept" symptoms at bedtime.  The anxiety is so intense!  During the day, I have light and activity to distract me.  Any ideas?  

 

I'm also waking up earlier than normal - after 4 hours or so - and the fear is there to greet me.  I can usually fall back asleep.  Not so now...even with herbs.

 

 

The tinnitus is with me all day, but it sounds like a screech owl at night.  I use a sound machine, but I can hear my tinnitus over that.  What can I do? 

 

This is probably all normal for what I'm going through.  

 

Thanks, in advance, for your reply!   

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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Hi Jams,

I would listen to calming music like beach sounds, rainforest sounds, practice mindfulness. (Tara Brach ).

Join an Art Class.

I find Art really theraputic I zone out for two hours and it is great.

Keep your self buisy. Best wishes, Hopefull.

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(

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  • Moderator

Hey Jams

 

I am also tapering Remeron buddy. I went from 15 MG to 4th of July to 10 Mg at 3rd of September. I also do have the particular nights when sleep is difficult. I will sleep around 10.30 Pm and then wake up around 2.30 or 3 AM with some sort of anxiety which is felt deep inside and not manifested on the surface.

 

As i do smoke, on those nights a go to the balcony and have a cigarette and then prepare a tea of Linden and Chamomile flowers. I drink it and then lay down on my bed listening some hypnosis for sleep videos in youtube.

this link is my preferred one. You can try for yourself and see.

 

 Normally i manage to get another 2.5-3 other hours of interrupted sleep until 6.45 AM when i do wake up to go to work.

 

Linden is good for sleep especially coupled with Chamomile if you have anxiety anyway you should not take it everyday as there are some effects on heart if you use it long term. Normally i do take it once ore twice in 10 days.

 

Good Luck

2015 -  2016 Xanax only rescue doses of 0.125 mg 1-2 times per month
 March 2016 0.125Mg * 2 Xanax for 10 days.

20 March 2016 0.25 Mg * 2 Xanax for one week. 1 April 2016 Tranxene 5 mg and Fevarin but bad reaction for 5 days.4 April 2016 25 Mg Amitryptiline + 6 MG bromazepam at night

Started tapering Bromazepam 6 days later reached up to 3 MG in 10 days and withdrawal. Pdoc asked to go 6 MG again.

10 of May started Remeron 15 MG and started tapering Bromazepam again.

SINCE 09/06/2016 BENZO FREE - Started Tapering Remeron 04/07/2016

 

04/Jul/16 12.8 Mg, 11/Aug/16 12 Mg, 20/Aug/16 11Mg, 3/Sept/16 10Mg, 11/Sept/16 9 Mg, 30/Sept/16 8.1 Mg, 14/Oct/16 7.25 Mg, 17/Nov/16 6.7, 23/Nov/16 6.5, 2/Dec/16 6.25, 9/Dec/16 6Mg, 25/Dec/16 5.7Mg, 4/Jan/17 5.4Mg, 20/Jan/17 5.2Mg, 07/Feb/17 5 Mg, 15/Feb/17 4.8Mg, 27/Feb/17 4.5Mg, 15/Mar/17 4.2Mg, 23/Mar/17 4Mg, 1/Apr/17 3.7Mg, 14/Apr/17 3.4Mg, 27/Apr/17 3.1Mg, 06/May/17 2.8Mg, 22/May/17 2.6Mg, 31/May/17 2.3Mg 09/Jun/17 2Mg, 20/Jun/17 1.7Mg, 29/Jun/17 1.4Mg, 11/Jul/17 1.2Mg, 20/Jul/17 1Mg, 31/Jul/17 0.8Mg, 11/Aug/17 0.6Mg, 23/Aug/17 0.5Mg, 05/Sept/17 0.4Mg, 13/Sept/17 0.3Mg. 22/Sept/17 0.2Mg, 03/Oct/17 0.15Mg, 10/Oct/17 0.1Mg, 23/Oct/17 0.05Mg, 22/Nov/17 0.025Mg, 06/DECEMBER/2017 MIRT FREEE.

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Thanks for your practical suggestions, Santino.  Love the sleep hypnosis sample.  And I'll check out Linden...thanks for the warning. 

 

I think I may have stabilized yesterday after a month-long hold.  I felt my entire body/mind relax, and now instead of anxiety/insomnia, I have volumes of fatigue/brain fog.  Better tired than wired though!

 

I'm having extreme memory problems - like forgetting what I started to talk about in the middle of a sentence!   I guess it's a major symptom of A/D withdrawal.  Never had this much dementia with Benzos!  I'm concerned that the Aspartame in the Soltab Remeron might be the culprit.  Any info' about this?

 

Thanks again!

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Cognitive symptoms -- "brain fog" and memory issues -- are common in withdrawal. The aspartame probably doesn't help but withdrawal and CNS restoration are more likely causes.

 

Brain fog topic in Symptoms & self care

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • 4 weeks later...

Falling asleep has become almost impossible since my last cut of .3 mg of the Remeron.  I take supplements, and my husband helps with soft talk, Bible reading, and foot rubs, but it still takes hours of sleeping-and-awakening before I actually STAY asleep...but not for long!  I awaken around 4 hrs later, take a supplement and sleep another hr or two...if I'm lucky.  The point is that sleep is much harder to come by now, and if my husband can't help me, I'm up all night.  Is it possible that my cortisol is spiking in the evening after I take the meds (ugh) and in the early morning, causing waves of intense anxiety?  What do people do or take to alleviate this problem?  

 

I've also experienced extreme intolerance to stress of any kind; I can feel the tension build to a crescendo of rage that looks and sounds nuts.  How do people interrupt and STOP that kind of thing before it gets rolling??

 

Thank you very much for your help!  

1990: Ativan prescribed for insomnia

2010-2012: Water titrated Ativan from 4 mg to 1.5 mg 

2012: Crossed from 1.5 mg Ativan to .075 mg Klonopin  

2012-2015: Micro-Tapered Klonopin to .0003 mg

8 '15 - 10 '15: - Rehab Center cut Klonopin to ZERO. 8 mg Valium, 300 mg Gabapentin, 50-100 mg Trazadone, & 7.5 mg Remeron added.  

10 & 11 '15: Valium to ZERO. 2 '16 - 4 '16: Trazadone to ZERO. Gabapentin to 200 mg.

6 '16: Tapered 7.5 mg Remeron to 5 mg. 8/10 and 8/21'16: Up-dosed twice, from 5.0 to 5.5 mg and again from 5.5 to 6 mg. 9/12: 5.7. 10/6: 5.4. 10/30: updose to 5.8. 12/28: updose to 5.9   1/3/2017: 5.9 to 5.6   1/19: 5.6 to 5.3   4/7: 4% 5.3 to 5.1    5/12: 5.1 to 4.95   7/19: 4.71   8/17: 4.6   10/3: 4.4. 11/18:  2% 4.39.  11/23: up-dose to 4.43.  

1/2018: 4.39; 2/16/18: 4.36; 3/21/18: 4.34; 5/6/18: 4.3; 5/26/18: 4.14; 6/6/18: updose to 4.24  Continued taper in 2019 down to 3.2 mg Remeron 

8/21/21: Currently on 3.2 mg Remeron, 87.5 mg Trazodone (increased from 50 mg 8/19/2021), 200 mg Gabapentin, 650 mg Phenibut. 

   

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Here are some SA links:

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos

 

There are some more here under the heading Sleep Problems:  Symptoms - Important Topics (categories with links)

 

Some people find a small dose of Melatonin helpful.  According to the information less is better and it may be helpful for getting to sleep.

 

If you have an mp3 player, or whatever you use, you could put some bible reading or something similar on it to listen to if your husband isn't available.  If it his voice which helps would he be able to record some for you?

 

Fear, terror, panic, and anxiety

 

coping-with-with-irritability-anger-and-rage

 

Neuro Emotions

 

It's important to learn non-drug techniques to cope with symptoms.  Understanding that it is a withdrawal symptom is the first step which can help to remove or contain the fear.  JanCarol likes the "legs up the wall" yoga position.  You might find some ideas here:

  1. Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms
  2. Yoga for calming (very simple poses can help greatly)
  3. Acceptance
  4. Acceptance and Mindfulness
  5. Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System
  6. "Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms
  7. Change cognitive framing - Redirect - Another Way
  8. Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression
  9. Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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